Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [ksurfschool] Are new flat LEIs worth it?

Expand Messages
  • George Sarris
    Hung, Could perhaps the inverting be controlled by adding a few more bridle lines that attach to points not on the leading edge of the kite such as that of a
    Message 1 of 14 , Mar 3, 2006
      Hung,
      Could perhaps the inverting be controlled by adding a
      few more bridle lines that attach to points not on the
      leading edge of the kite such as that of a foil? I've
      never heard of a foil kite inverting, but I've not
      read much about foils. In rating foils versus bow
      kites, which would your recommend? I may try a foil
      if the bow kite prices stay high (Flysurfer versus
      Cabrinha Xbow).
      Thanks,
      George

      --- hungvu2000@... wrote:

      > George,
      >
      > Some flat LEI kites have the invert problems due to
      > their flatness. The
      > flatter the kite, the more it tends to invert. I
      > think that all future
      > flat LEI kites will not be too flat to remove this
      > problem.
      >
      > Also, you need some curve in the kite to get the
      > "sled boosting" effect
      > as described in
      >
      http://kitesurfingschool.org/kite.htm#Kite%20Design%20Fundamentals
      >
      > (heavy duty reading)
      >
      > Hung.
      >
      > George Sarris wrote:
      >
      > >Although I do not own a flat LEI (bow kite) I have
      > >read forums regarding the kite inverting.
      > Supposedly
      > >after that happens, there is little control in
      > >depowering. I plan to buy a flat LEI bow kite by
      > late
      > >spring if the prices come down to what I would
      > >consider reasonable. The prices for a Cabrinha
      > Xbow
      > >16m are around $1700 complete. I would consider
      > >purchasing one if the price was around $1200-$1300.
      > >
      > >George
      > >
      > >--- hungvu2000@... wrote:
      > >
      > > > Having used a new flat LEI in the last couple
      > weeks
      > > > on snow, my response
      > > > is a definite yes for snow (assuming that all
      > flat
      > > > LEIs are somewhat
      > > > similar).
      > > >
      > > > So far, there are almost no negative things
      > about
      > > > the flat LEI kite I used.
      > > >
      > > > The positive things are:
      > > > - Depower: boy, can these flat kite ever
      > > > DEpower. I've never had to
      > > > use the safety leash and wonder whether you need
      > it.
      > > > There was a time I
      > > > crash landed and the bar got off my hand, the
      > kite
      > > > lost control and shot
      > > > across the wind window. I was not dragged
      > around at
      > > > all for that.
      > > > - Relaunch on snow: even better than foil.
      > You
      > > > just let go off the
      > > > bar and the kite will slowly drop and hover at
      > the
      > > > window edge waiting
      > > > for relaunch. When you relaunch, it goes up
      > slowly
      > > > and not dragging you
      > > > around like foil.
      > > > - Less kite to carry around: A single 9m
      > feels
      > > > like a 8m/10m combo
      > > > (or even a 7m/11m combo). Two kite quiver is
      > now
      > > > possible. For me
      > > > probably a 9 and a 15 flat LEI.
      > > >
      > > > Jumping is very good and hang time is excellent.
      > > > The condition have
      > > > never been ideal so I did not have a chance to
      > "take
      > > > it to the limit";
      > > > however, I would think its "take it to the
      > limit"
      > > > jumping and hang time
      > > > performance would be better if not the same as
      > the
      > > > traditional LEIs.
      > > >
      > > > I will know more about it on water in spring.
      > > >
      > > > Hung.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
      > > > removed]
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >__________________________________________________
      > >Do You Yahoo!?
      > >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
      > protection around
      > >http://mail.yahoo.com
      > >
      > >
      > >If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
      > >http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the
      > answers
      > >to the most frequently asked questions.
      > >
      > >To unsubscribe, please send an email to
      > ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
      > >To subscribe, please send an email to
      > ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >SPONSORED LINKS
      > >Sport fun
      >
      ><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sport+fun&w1=Sport+fun&w2=Fun&w3=Kitesurfing&c=3&s=41&.sig=Afks9WONK-OzIKbJVtuYtw>
      >
      > > Fun
      >
      ><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Fun&w1=Sport+fun&w2=Fun&w3=Kitesurfing&c=3&s=41&.sig=Sj-_6zKuaYXUxZJifkyC4A>
      >
      > > Kitesurfing
      >
      ><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Kitesurfing&w1=Sport+fun&w2=Fun&w3=Kitesurfing&c=3&s=41&.sig=PSOJPhOJnQgXbc6m-t582A>
      >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
      > >
      > > * Visit your group "ksurfschool
      > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ksurfschool>"
      > on the web.
      > >
      > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an
      > email to:
      > > ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > >
      >
      <mailto:ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
      > >
      > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
      > Yahoo! Terms of Service
      > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
      > >
      > >
      >
      >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >


      __________________________________________________
      Do You Yahoo!?
      Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
      http://mail.yahoo.com
    • hungvu2000@rogers.com
      But wouldn t that make it like the Seasmik that we had few years ago? I would rate the new flat LEI as the way the future kites should be (both for water and
      Message 2 of 14 , Mar 4, 2006
        But wouldn't that make it like the Seasmik that we had few years ago?

        I would rate the new flat LEI as the way the future kites should be
        (both for water and snow).

        We talked about 100% depowered LEI and the "chicken loop is the safety
        leash" concept a few years back and now the flat LEIs seems to deliver
        it alright without any (or much) compromise.

        I was a long supporter of foils and still am in some respects but the
        new flat LEIs really impressed me.

        Some of them have the invert problem (being too flat) but most of them
        (and all of them eventually) would eliminate this completely by being
        less flat or a firmer LE.

        P.S., To launch the kite today (in good strong wind), I attached the
        chicken loop to my snowboard then went to the kite to launch it at the
        edge of the wind window. I went back to my snowboard and casually
        removed the chicken loop from the snowboard and attached it to my
        harness. I then sit down, put the snowboard binding on and slowly
        brought the kite up and kited. This is pretty amazing!

        Hung.

        George Sarris wrote:

        >Hung,
        >Could perhaps the inverting be controlled by adding a
        >few more bridle lines that attach to points not on the
        >leading edge of the kite such as that of a foil? I've
        >never heard of a foil kite inverting, but I've not
        >read much about foils. In rating foils versus bow
        >kites, which would your recommend? I may try a foil
        >if the bow kite prices stay high (Flysurfer versus
        >Cabrinha Xbow).
        >Thanks,
        >George
        >
        >--- hungvu2000@... wrote:
        >
        > > George,
        > >
        > > Some flat LEI kites have the invert problems due to
        > > their flatness. The
        > > flatter the kite, the more it tends to invert. I
        > > think that all future
        > > flat LEI kites will not be too flat to remove this
        > > problem.
        > >
        > > Also, you need some curve in the kite to get the
        > > "sled boosting" effect
        > > as described in
        > >
        >http://kitesurfingschool.org/kite.htm#Kite%20Design%20Fundamentals
        > >
        > > (heavy duty reading)
        > >
        > > Hung.
        > >
        > > George Sarris wrote:
        > >
        > > >Although I do not own a flat LEI (bow kite) I have
        > > >read forums regarding the kite inverting.
        > > Supposedly
        > > >after that happens, there is little control in
        > > >depowering. I plan to buy a flat LEI bow kite by
        > > late
        > > >spring if the prices come down to what I would
        > > >consider reasonable. The prices for a Cabrinha
        > > Xbow
        > > >16m are around $1700 complete. I would consider
        > > >purchasing one if the price was around $1200-$1300.
        > > >
        > > >George
        > > >
        > > >--- hungvu2000@... wrote:
        > > >
        > > > > Having used a new flat LEI in the last couple
        > > weeks
        > > > > on snow, my response
        > > > > is a definite yes for snow (assuming that all
        > > flat
        > > > > LEIs are somewhat
        > > > > similar).
        > > > >
        > > > > So far, there are almost no negative things
        > > about
        > > > > the flat LEI kite I used.
        > > > >
        > > > > The positive things are:
        > > > > - Depower: boy, can these flat kite ever
        > > > > DEpower. I've never had to
        > > > > use the safety leash and wonder whether you need
        > > it.
        > > > > There was a time I
        > > > > crash landed and the bar got off my hand, the
        > > kite
        > > > > lost control and shot
        > > > > across the wind window. I was not dragged
        > > around at
        > > > > all for that.
        > > > > - Relaunch on snow: even better than foil.
        > > You
        > > > > just let go off the
        > > > > bar and the kite will slowly drop and hover at
        > > the
        > > > > window edge waiting
        > > > > for relaunch. When you relaunch, it goes up
        > > slowly
        > > > > and not dragging you
        > > > > around like foil.
        > > > > - Less kite to carry around: A single 9m
        > > feels
        > > > > like a 8m/10m combo
        > > > > (or even a 7m/11m combo). Two kite quiver is
        > > now
        > > > > possible. For me
        > > > > probably a 9 and a 15 flat LEI.
        > > > >
        > > > > Jumping is very good and hang time is excellent.
        > > > > The condition have
        > > > > never been ideal so I did not have a chance to
        > > "take
        > > > > it to the limit";
        > > > > however, I would think its "take it to the
        > > limit"
        > > > > jumping and hang time
        > > > > performance would be better if not the same as
        > > the
        > > > > traditional LEIs.
        > > > >
        > > > > I will know more about it on water in spring.
        > > > >
        > > > > Hung.
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
        > > > > removed]
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >__________________________________________________
        > > >Do You Yahoo!?
        > > >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
        > > protection around
        > > >http://mail.yahoo.com
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
        > > >http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the
        > > answers
        > > >to the most frequently asked questions.
        > > >
        > > >To unsubscribe, please send an email to
        > > ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
        > > >To subscribe, please send an email to
        > > ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >SPONSORED LINKS
        > > >Sport fun
        > >
        > ><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sport+fun&w1=Sport+fun&w2=Fun&w3=Kitesurfing&c=3&s=41&.sig=Afks9WONK-OzIKbJVtuYtw
        ><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sport+fun&w1=Sport+fun&w2=Fun&w3=Kitesurfing&c=3&s=41&.sig=Afks9WONK-OzIKbJVtuYtw>>
        > >
        > > > Fun
        > >
        > ><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Fun&w1=Sport+fun&w2=Fun&w3=Kitesurfing&c=3&s=41&.sig=Sj-_6zKuaYXUxZJifkyC4A
        ><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Fun&w1=Sport+fun&w2=Fun&w3=Kitesurfing&c=3&s=41&.sig=Sj-_6zKuaYXUxZJifkyC4A>>
        > >
        > > > Kitesurfing
        > >
        > ><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Kitesurfing&w1=Sport+fun&w2=Fun&w3=Kitesurfing&c=3&s=41&.sig=PSOJPhOJnQgXbc6m-t582A
        ><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Kitesurfing&w1=Sport+fun&w2=Fun&w3=Kitesurfing&c=3&s=41&.sig=PSOJPhOJnQgXbc6m-t582A>>
        > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > > >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
        > > >
        > > > * Visit your group "ksurfschool
        > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ksurfschool>"
        > > on the web.
        > > >
        > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an
        > > email to:
        > > > ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > > >
        > >
        ><mailto:ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
        > > >
        > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
        > > Yahoo! Terms of Service
        > > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >__________________________________________________
        >Do You Yahoo!?
        >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        >http://mail.yahoo.com
        >
        >
        >If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
        >http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
        >to the most frequently asked questions.
        >
        >To unsubscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
        >To subscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >SPONSORED LINKS
        >Sport fun
        ><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sport+fun&w1=Sport+fun&w2=Fun&w3=Kitesurfing&c=3&s=41&.sig=Afks9WONK-OzIKbJVtuYtw>
        > Fun
        ><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Fun&w1=Sport+fun&w2=Fun&w3=Kitesurfing&c=3&s=41&.sig=Sj-_6zKuaYXUxZJifkyC4A>
        > Kitesurfing
        ><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Kitesurfing&w1=Sport+fun&w2=Fun&w3=Kitesurfing&c=3&s=41&.sig=PSOJPhOJnQgXbc6m-t582A>
        >
        >
        >
        >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
        >
        > * Visit your group "ksurfschool
        > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ksurfschool>" on the web.
        >
        > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > <mailto:ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
        >
        > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
        > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
        >
        >
        >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • ISHTAR LUESBY
        As a beginner and just learning the sport Hung, could you point me to a history of different kite design and performance. Could you also give a few examples of
        Message 3 of 14 , Mar 5, 2006
          As a beginner and just learning the sport Hung, could you point me to a history of different kite design and performance. Could you also give a few examples of the new flat LEI kites? Many thanks Ishtar

          hungvu2000@... wrote: But wouldn't that make it like the Seasmik that we had few years ago?

          I would rate the new flat LEI as the way the future kites should be
          (both for water and snow).

          We talked about 100% depowered LEI and the "chicken loop is the safety
          leash" concept a few years back and now the flat LEIs seems to deliver
          it alright without any (or much) compromise.

          I was a long supporter of foils and still am in some respects but the
          new flat LEIs really impressed me.

          Some of them have the invert problem (being too flat) but most of them
          (and all of them eventually) would eliminate this completely by being
          less flat or a firmer LE.

          P.S., To launch the kite today (in good strong wind), I attached the
          chicken loop to my snowboard then went to the kite to launch it at the
          edge of the wind window. I went back to my snowboard and casually
          removed the chicken loop from the snowboard and attached it to my
          harness. I then sit down, put the snowboard binding on and slowly
          brought the kite up and kited. This is pretty amazing!

          Hung.

          George Sarris wrote:

          >Hung,
          >Could perhaps the inverting be controlled by adding a
          >few more bridle lines that attach to points not on the
          >leading edge of the kite such as that of a foil? I've
          >never heard of a foil kite inverting, but I've not
          >read much about foils. In rating foils versus bow
          >kites, which would your recommend? I may try a foil
          >if the bow kite prices stay high (Flysurfer versus
          >Cabrinha Xbow).
          >Thanks,
          >George
          >
          >--- hungvu2000@... wrote:
          >
          > > George,
          > >
          > > Some flat LEI kites have the invert problems due to
          > > their flatness. The
          > > flatter the kite, the more it tends to invert. I
          > > think that all future
          > > flat LEI kites will not be too flat to remove this
          > > problem.
          > >
          > > Also, you need some curve in the kite to get the
          > > "sled boosting" effect
          > > as described in
          > >
          >http://kitesurfingschool.org/kite.htm#Kite%20Design%20Fundamentals
          > >
          > > (heavy duty reading)
          > >
          > > Hung.
          > >
          > > George Sarris wrote:
          > >
          > > >Although I do not own a flat LEI (bow kite) I have
          > > >read forums regarding the kite inverting.
          > > Supposedly
          > > >after that happens, there is little control in
          > > >depowering. I plan to buy a flat LEI bow kite by
          > > late
          > > >spring if the prices come down to what I would
          > > >consider reasonable. The prices for a Cabrinha
          > > Xbow
          > > >16m are around $1700 complete. I would consider
          > > >purchasing one if the price was around $1200-$1300.
          > > >
          > > >George
          > > >
          > > >--- hungvu2000@... wrote:
          > > >
          > > > > Having used a new flat LEI in the last couple
          > > weeks
          > > > > on snow, my response
          > > > > is a definite yes for snow (assuming that all
          > > flat
          > > > > LEIs are somewhat
          > > > > similar).
          > > > >
          > > > > So far, there are almost no negative things
          > > about
          > > > > the flat LEI kite I used.
          > > > >
          > > > > The positive things are:
          > > > > - Depower: boy, can these flat kite ever
          > > > > DEpower. I've never had to
          > > > > use the safety leash and wonder whether you need
          > > it.
          > > > > There was a time I
          > > > > crash landed and the bar got off my hand, the
          > > kite
          > > > > lost control and shot
          > > > > across the wind window. I was not dragged
          > > around at
          > > > > all for that.
          > > > > - Relaunch on snow: even better than foil.
          > > You
          > > > > just let go off the
          > > > > bar and the kite will slowly drop and hover at
          > > the
          > > > > window edge waiting
          > > > > for relaunch. When you relaunch, it goes up
          > > slowly
          > > > > and not dragging you
          > > > > around like foil.
          > > > > - Less kite to carry around: A single 9m
          > > feels
          > > > > like a 8m/10m combo
          > > > > (or even a 7m/11m combo). Two kite quiver is
          > > now
          > > > > possible. For me
          > > > > probably a 9 and a 15 flat LEI.
          > > > >
          > > > > Jumping is very good and hang time is excellent.
          > > > > The condition have
          > > > > never been ideal so I did not have a chance to
          > > "take
          > > > > it to the limit";
          > > > > however, I would think its "take it to the
          > > limit"
          > > > > jumping and hang time
          > > > > performance would be better if not the same as
          > > the
          > > > > traditional LEIs.
          > > > >
          > > > > I will know more about it on water in spring.
          > > > >
          > > > > Hung.
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
          > > > > removed]
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >__________________________________________________
          > > >Do You Yahoo!?
          > > >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
          > > protection around
          > > >http://mail.yahoo.com
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
          > > >http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the
          > > answers
          > > >to the most frequently asked questions.
          > > >
          > > >To unsubscribe, please send an email to
          > > ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
          > > >To subscribe, please send an email to
          > > ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >SPONSORED LINKS
          > > >Sport fun
          > >
          > >>>
          > >
          > > > Fun
          > >
          > >>>
          > >
          > > > Kitesurfing
          > >
          > >>>
          > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          > > >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
          > > >
          > > > * Visit your group "ksurfschool
          > > > "
          > > on the web.
          > > >
          > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an
          > > email to:
          > > > ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > > >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
          > > Yahoo! Terms of Service
          > > > .
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >__________________________________________________
          >Do You Yahoo!?
          >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
          >http://mail.yahoo.com
          >
          >
          >If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
          >http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
          >to the most frequently asked questions.
          >
          >To unsubscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
          >To subscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >SPONSORED LINKS
          >Sport fun
          >
          > Fun
          >
          > Kitesurfing
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
          >
          > * Visit your group "ksurfschool
          > " on the web.
          >
          > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
          > .
          >
          >
          >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



          If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
          http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
          to the most frequently asked questions.

          To unsubscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
          To subscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com

          Yahoo! Groups Links










          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • hungvu2000@rogers.com
          Ishtar, The kitesurfing FAQ has some info at http://kitesurfingschool.org/faqs.htm#What%20types%20of%20kite%20can%20I%20use . Also here is a very brief
          Message 4 of 14 , Mar 7, 2006
            Ishtar,

            The kitesurfing FAQ has some info at
            http://kitesurfingschool.org/faqs.htm#What%20types%20of%20kite%20can%20I%20use
            . Also here is a very brief summary of kite designs:
            - Wipika Classic Inflatable: Easy to relaunch, stable, low
            performance, non-depowerable
            - Kiteski Kites: High performance, cumbersome to relaunch but
            reliable, non-depowerable
            - Closed cell foil: High performance, non depowerable, easy to relaunch
            - Seasmik: High performance, heavy bar pressure, depowerable
            - 4 line inflatable: High performance, depowerable, light bar pressure
            - Arc: High performance, depowerable, light bar pressure
            - Flat 4 line LEI: High performance, 100% depowerable, light bar
            pressure, very easy to relaunch

            Flat LEI: First generation: Nova, Crossbow. Second generation: Waroo,
            Sonic, etc.

            Hung.

            ISHTAR LUESBY wrote:

            >As a beginner and just learning the sport Hung, could you point me to a history
            >of different kite design and performance. Could you also give a few examples of
            >the new flat LEI kites? Many thanks Ishtar
            >
            >hungvu2000@... wrote: But wouldn't that make it like the Seasmik that we
            >had few years ago?
            >
            >I would rate the new flat LEI as the way the future kites should be
            >(both for water and snow).
            >
            >We talked about 100% depowered LEI and the "chicken loop is the safety
            >leash" concept a few years back and now the flat LEIs seems to deliver
            >it alright without any (or much) compromise.
            >
            >I was a long supporter of foils and still am in some respects but the
            >new flat LEIs really impressed me.
            >
            >Some of them have the invert problem (being too flat) but most of them
            >(and all of them eventually) would eliminate this completely by being
            >less flat or a firmer LE.
            >
            >P.S., To launch the kite today (in good strong wind), I attached the
            >chicken loop to my snowboard then went to the kite to launch it at the
            >edge of the wind window. I went back to my snowboard and casually
            >removed the chicken loop from the snowboard and attached it to my
            >harness. I then sit down, put the snowboard binding on and slowly
            >brought the kite up and kited. This is pretty amazing!
            >
            >Hung.
            >
            >George Sarris wrote:
            >
            > >Hung,
            > >Could perhaps the inverting be controlled by adding a
            > >few more bridle lines that attach to points not on the
            > >leading edge of the kite such as that of a foil? I've
            > >never heard of a foil kite inverting, but I've not
            > >read much about foils. In rating foils versus bow
            > >kites, which would your recommend? I may try a foil
            > >if the bow kite prices stay high (Flysurfer versus
            > >Cabrinha Xbow).
            > >Thanks,
            > >George
            > >
            > >--- hungvu2000@... wrote:
            > >
            > > > George,
            > > >
            > > > Some flat LEI kites have the invert problems due to
            > > > their flatness. The
            > > > flatter the kite, the more it tends to invert. I
            > > > think that all future
            > > > flat LEI kites will not be too flat to remove this
            > > > problem.
            > > >
            > > > Also, you need some curve in the kite to get the
            > > > "sled boosting" effect
            > > > as described in
            > > >
            > >http://kitesurfingschool.org/kite.htm#Kite%20Design%20Fundamentals
            > > >
            > > > (heavy duty reading)
            > > >
            > > > Hung.
            > > >
            > > > George Sarris wrote:
            > > >
            > > > >Although I do not own a flat LEI (bow kite) I have
            > > > >read forums regarding the kite inverting.
            > > > Supposedly
            > > > >after that happens, there is little control in
            > > > >depowering. I plan to buy a flat LEI bow kite by
            > > > late
            > > > >spring if the prices come down to what I would
            > > > >consider reasonable. The prices for a Cabrinha
            > > > Xbow
            > > > >16m are around $1700 complete. I would consider
            > > > >purchasing one if the price was around $1200-$1300.
            > > > >
            > > > >George
            > > > >
            > > > >--- hungvu2000@... wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > > Having used a new flat LEI in the last couple
            > > > weeks
            > > > > > on snow, my response
            > > > > > is a definite yes for snow (assuming that all
            > > > flat
            > > > > > LEIs are somewhat
            > > > > > similar).
            > > > > >
            > > > > > So far, there are almost no negative things
            > > > about
            > > > > > the flat LEI kite I used.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > The positive things are:
            > > > > > - Depower: boy, can these flat kite ever
            > > > > > DEpower. I've never had to
            > > > > > use the safety leash and wonder whether you need
            > > > it.
            > > > > > There was a time I
            > > > > > crash landed and the bar got off my hand, the
            > > > kite
            > > > > > lost control and shot
            > > > > > across the wind window. I was not dragged
            > > > around at
            > > > > > all for that.
            > > > > > - Relaunch on snow: even better than foil.
            > > > You
            > > > > > just let go off the
            > > > > > bar and the kite will slowly drop and hover at
            > > > the
            > > > > > window edge waiting
            > > > > > for relaunch. When you relaunch, it goes up
            > > > slowly
            > > > > > and not dragging you
            > > > > > around like foil.
            > > > > > - Less kite to carry around: A single 9m
            > > > feels
            > > > > > like a 8m/10m combo
            > > > > > (or even a 7m/11m combo). Two kite quiver is
            > > > now
            > > > > > possible. For me
            > > > > > probably a 9 and a 15 flat LEI.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Jumping is very good and hang time is excellent.
            > > > > > The condition have
            > > > > > never been ideal so I did not have a chance to
            > > > "take
            > > > > > it to the limit";
            > > > > > however, I would think its "take it to the
            > > > limit"
            > > > > > jumping and hang time
            > > > > > performance would be better if not the same as
            > > > the
            > > > > > traditional LEIs.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > I will know more about it on water in spring.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Hung.
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
            > > > > > removed]
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >__________________________________________________
            > > > >Do You Yahoo!?
            > > > >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
            > > > protection around
            > > > >http://mail.yahoo.com
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
            > > > >http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the
            > > > answers
            > > > >to the most frequently asked questions.
            > > > >
            > > > >To unsubscribe, please send an email to
            > > > ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
            > > > >To subscribe, please send an email to
            > > > ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >SPONSORED LINKS
            > > > >Sport fun
            > > >
            > > >>>
            > > >
            > > > > Fun
            > > >
            > > >>>
            > > >
            > > > > Kitesurfing
            > > >
            > > >>>
            > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            > > > >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
            > > > >
            > > > > * Visit your group "ksurfschool
            > > > > "
            > > > on the web.
            > > > >
            > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an
            > > > email to:
            > > > > ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > > > >
            > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
            > > > Yahoo! Terms of Service
            > > > > .
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >__________________________________________________
            > >Do You Yahoo!?
            > >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
            > >http://mail.yahoo.com
            > >
            > >
            > >If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
            > >http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
            > >to the most frequently asked questions.
            > >
            > >To unsubscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
            > >To subscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >SPONSORED LINKS
            > >Sport fun
            > >
            > > Fun
            > >
            > > Kitesurfing
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            > >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
            > >
            > > * Visit your group "ksurfschool
            > > " on the web.
            > >
            > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > > ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > >
            > >
            > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
            > > .
            > >
            > >
            > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
            >http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
            >to the most frequently asked questions.
            >
            >To unsubscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
            >To subscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com
            >
            >Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
            >http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
            >to the most frequently asked questions.
            >
            >To unsubscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
            >To subscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >SPONSORED LINKS
            >Sport fun
            ><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sport+fun&w1=Sport+fun&w2=Fun&w3=Kitesurfing&c=3&s=41&.sig=Afks9WONK-OzIKbJVtuYtw>
            > Fun
            ><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Fun&w1=Sport+fun&w2=Fun&w3=Kitesurfing&c=3&s=41&.sig=Sj-_6zKuaYXUxZJifkyC4A>
            > Kitesurfing
            ><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Kitesurfing&w1=Sport+fun&w2=Fun&w3=Kitesurfing&c=3&s=41&.sig=PSOJPhOJnQgXbc6m-t582A>
            >
            >
            >
            >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
            >
            > * Visit your group "ksurfschool
            > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ksurfschool>" on the web.
            >
            > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > <mailto:ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
            >
            > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
            > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
            >
            >
            >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            >
            >
            >
          • ISHTAR LUESBY
            Thanks Hung! I am really looking forward to the Waroo today! Cheers Ishtar ps Do you have any xtra large kite harness for sale? hungvu2000@rogers.com wrote:
            Message 5 of 14 , Mar 7, 2006
              Thanks Hung!

              I am really looking forward to the Waroo today!

              Cheers Ishtar

              ps Do you have any xtra large kite harness for sale?

              hungvu2000@... wrote:
              Ishtar,

              The kitesurfing FAQ has some info at
              http://kitesurfingschool.org/faqs.htm#What%20types%20of%20kite%20can%20I%20use
              . Also here is a very brief summary of kite designs:
              - Wipika Classic Inflatable: Easy to relaunch, stable, low
              performance, non-depowerable
              - Kiteski Kites: High performance, cumbersome to relaunch but
              reliable, non-depowerable
              - Closed cell foil: High performance, non depowerable, easy to relaunch
              - Seasmik: High performance, heavy bar pressure, depowerable
              - 4 line inflatable: High performance, depowerable, light bar pressure
              - Arc: High performance, depowerable, light bar pressure
              - Flat 4 line LEI: High performance, 100% depowerable, light bar
              pressure, very easy to relaunch

              Flat LEI: First generation: Nova, Crossbow. Second generation: Waroo,
              Sonic, etc.

              Hung.

              ISHTAR LUESBY wrote:

              >As a beginner and just learning the sport Hung, could you point me to a history
              >of different kite design and performance. Could you also give a few examples of
              >the new flat LEI kites? Many thanks Ishtar
              >
              >hungvu2000@... wrote: But wouldn't that make it like the Seasmik that we
              >had few years ago?
              >
              >I would rate the new flat LEI as the way the future kites should be
              >(both for water and snow).
              >
              >We talked about 100% depowered LEI and the "chicken loop is the safety
              >leash" concept a few years back and now the flat LEIs seems to deliver
              >it alright without any (or much) compromise.
              >
              >I was a long supporter of foils and still am in some respects but the
              >new flat LEIs really impressed me.
              >
              >Some of them have the invert problem (being too flat) but most of them
              >(and all of them eventually) would eliminate this completely by being
              >less flat or a firmer LE.
              >
              >P.S., To launch the kite today (in good strong wind), I attached the
              >chicken loop to my snowboard then went to the kite to launch it at the
              >edge of the wind window. I went back to my snowboard and casually
              >removed the chicken loop from the snowboard and attached it to my
              >harness. I then sit down, put the snowboard binding on and slowly
              >brought the kite up and kited. This is pretty amazing!
              >
              >Hung.
              >
              >George Sarris wrote:
              >
              > >Hung,
              > >Could perhaps the inverting be controlled by adding a
              > >few more bridle lines that attach to points not on the
              > >leading edge of the kite such as that of a foil? I've
              > >never heard of a foil kite inverting, but I've not
              > >read much about foils. In rating foils versus bow
              > >kites, which would your recommend? I may try a foil
              > >if the bow kite prices stay high (Flysurfer versus
              > >Cabrinha Xbow).
              > >Thanks,
              > >George
              > >
              > >--- hungvu2000@... wrote:
              > >
              > > > George,
              > > >
              > > > Some flat LEI kites have the invert problems due to
              > > > their flatness. The
              > > > flatter the kite, the more it tends to invert. I
              > > > think that all future
              > > > flat LEI kites will not be too flat to remove this
              > > > problem.
              > > >
              > > > Also, you need some curve in the kite to get the
              > > > "sled boosting" effect
              > > > as described in
              > > >
              > >http://kitesurfingschool.org/kite.htm#Kite%20Design%20Fundamentals
              > > >
              > > > (heavy duty reading)
              > > >
              > > > Hung.
              > > >
              > > > George Sarris wrote:
              > > >
              > > > >Although I do not own a flat LEI (bow kite) I have
              > > > >read forums regarding the kite inverting.
              > > > Supposedly
              > > > >after that happens, there is little control in
              > > > >depowering. I plan to buy a flat LEI bow kite by
              > > > late
              > > > >spring if the prices come down to what I would
              > > > >consider reasonable. The prices for a Cabrinha
              > > > Xbow
              > > > >16m are around $1700 complete. I would consider
              > > > >purchasing one if the price was around $1200-$1300.
              > > > >
              > > > >George
              > > > >
              > > > >--- hungvu2000@... wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > > Having used a new flat LEI in the last couple
              > > > weeks
              > > > > > on snow, my response
              > > > > > is a definite yes for snow (assuming that all
              > > > flat
              > > > > > LEIs are somewhat
              > > > > > similar).
              > > > > >
              > > > > > So far, there are almost no negative things
              > > > about
              > > > > > the flat LEI kite I used.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > The positive things are:
              > > > > > - Depower: boy, can these flat kite ever
              > > > > > DEpower. I've never had to
              > > > > > use the safety leash and wonder whether you need
              > > > it.
              > > > > > There was a time I
              > > > > > crash landed and the bar got off my hand, the
              > > > kite
              > > > > > lost control and shot
              > > > > > across the wind window. I was not dragged
              > > > around at
              > > > > > all for that.
              > > > > > - Relaunch on snow: even better than foil.
              > > > You
              > > > > > just let go off the
              > > > > > bar and the kite will slowly drop and hover at
              > > > the
              > > > > > window edge waiting
              > > > > > for relaunch. When you relaunch, it goes up
              > > > slowly
              > > > > > and not dragging you
              > > > > > around like foil.
              > > > > > - Less kite to carry around: A single 9m
              > > > feels
              > > > > > like a 8m/10m combo
              > > > > > (or even a 7m/11m combo). Two kite quiver is
              > > > now
              > > > > > possible. For me
              > > > > > probably a 9 and a 15 flat LEI.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Jumping is very good and hang time is excellent.
              > > > > > The condition have
              > > > > > never been ideal so I did not have a chance to
              > > > "take
              > > > > > it to the limit";
              > > > > > however, I would think its "take it to the
              > > > limit"
              > > > > > jumping and hang time
              > > > > > performance would be better if not the same as
              > > > the
              > > > > > traditional LEIs.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > I will know more about it on water in spring.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Hung.
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
              > > > > > removed]
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >__________________________________________________
              > > > >Do You Yahoo!?
              > > > >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
              > > > protection around
              > > > >http://mail.yahoo.com
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
              > > > >http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the
              > > > answers
              > > > >to the most frequently asked questions.
              > > > >
              > > > >To unsubscribe, please send an email to
              > > > ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
              > > > >To subscribe, please send an email to
              > > > ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >SPONSORED LINKS
              > > > >Sport fun
              > > >
              > > >>>
              > > >
              > > > > Fun
              > > >
              > > >>>
              > > >
              > > > > Kitesurfing
              > > >
              > > >>>
              > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > >
              > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              > > > >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
              > > > >
              > > > > * Visit your group "ksurfschool
              > > > > "
              > > > on the web.
              > > > >
              > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an
              > > > email to:
              > > > > ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > > > >
              > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
              > > > Yahoo! Terms of Service
              > > > > .
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > >
              > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >__________________________________________________
              > >Do You Yahoo!?
              > >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
              > >http://mail.yahoo.com
              > >
              > >
              > >If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
              > >http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
              > >to the most frequently asked questions.
              > >
              > >To unsubscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
              > >To subscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >SPONSORED LINKS
              > >Sport fun
              > >
              > > Fun
              > >
              > > Kitesurfing
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              > >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
              > >
              > > * Visit your group "ksurfschool
              > > " on the web.
              > >
              > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > > ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > >
              > >
              > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
              > > .
              > >
              > >
              > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
              >http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
              >to the most frequently asked questions.
              >
              >To unsubscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
              >To subscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com
              >
              >Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
              >http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
              >to the most frequently asked questions.
              >
              >To unsubscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
              >To subscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >SPONSORED LINKS
              >Sport fun
              >
              > Fun
              >
              > Kitesurfing
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
              >
              > * Visit your group "ksurfschool
              > " on the web.
              >
              > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              >
              > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
              > .
              >
              >
              >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              >
              >
              >


              If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
              http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
              to the most frequently asked questions.

              To unsubscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
              To subscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com

              Yahoo! Groups Links









              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • George Sarris
              Hung, How much difference is there between the first generation and second generation flat LEI kites? Are the second generation kites less flat such as the
              Message 6 of 14 , Mar 7, 2006
                Hung,
                How much difference is there between the "first
                generation" and "second generation" flat LEI kites?
                Are the second generation kites less flat such as the
                Cabrinha Switchblade versus the Crossbow? Or is it
                bar pressure or something else?

                Thanks,
                George

                --- hungvu2000@... wrote:

                > Ishtar,
                >
                > The kitesurfing FAQ has some info at
                >
                http://kitesurfingschool.org/faqs.htm#What%20types%20of%20kite%20can%20I%20use
                >
                > . Also here is a very brief summary of kite
                > designs:
                > - Wipika Classic Inflatable: Easy to relaunch,
                > stable, low
                > performance, non-depowerable
                > - Kiteski Kites: High performance, cumbersome to
                > relaunch but
                > reliable, non-depowerable
                > - Closed cell foil: High performance, non
                > depowerable, easy to relaunch
                > - Seasmik: High performance, heavy bar pressure,
                > depowerable
                > - 4 line inflatable: High performance,
                > depowerable, light bar pressure
                > - Arc: High performance, depowerable, light bar
                > pressure
                > - Flat 4 line LEI: High performance, 100%
                > depowerable, light bar
                > pressure, very easy to relaunch
                >
                > Flat LEI: First generation: Nova, Crossbow. Second
                > generation: Waroo,
                > Sonic, etc.
                >
                > Hung.
                >
                > ISHTAR LUESBY wrote:
                >
                > >As a beginner and just learning the sport Hung,
                > could you point me to a history
                > >of different kite design and performance. Could you
                > also give a few examples of
                > >the new flat LEI kites? Many thanks Ishtar
                > >
                > >hungvu2000@... wrote: But wouldn't that
                > make it like the Seasmik that we
                > >had few years ago?
                > >
                > >I would rate the new flat LEI as the way the future
                > kites should be
                > >(both for water and snow).
                > >
                > >We talked about 100% depowered LEI and the "chicken
                > loop is the safety
                > >leash" concept a few years back and now the flat
                > LEIs seems to deliver
                > >it alright without any (or much) compromise.
                > >
                > >I was a long supporter of foils and still am in
                > some respects but the
                > >new flat LEIs really impressed me.
                > >
                > >Some of them have the invert problem (being too
                > flat) but most of them
                > >(and all of them eventually) would eliminate this
                > completely by being
                > >less flat or a firmer LE.
                > >
                > >P.S., To launch the kite today (in good strong
                > wind), I attached the
                > >chicken loop to my snowboard then went to the kite
                > to launch it at the
                > >edge of the wind window. I went back to my
                > snowboard and casually
                > >removed the chicken loop from the snowboard and
                > attached it to my
                > >harness. I then sit down, put the snowboard binding
                > on and slowly
                > >brought the kite up and kited. This is pretty
                > amazing!
                > >
                > >Hung.
                > >
                > >George Sarris wrote:
                > >
                > > >Hung,
                > > >Could perhaps the inverting be controlled by
                > adding a
                > > >few more bridle lines that attach to points not
                > on the
                > > >leading edge of the kite such as that of a foil?
                > I've
                > > >never heard of a foil kite inverting, but I've
                > not
                > > >read much about foils. In rating foils versus bow
                > > >kites, which would your recommend? I may try a
                > foil
                > > >if the bow kite prices stay high (Flysurfer
                > versus
                > > >Cabrinha Xbow).
                > > >Thanks,
                > > >George
                > > >
                > > >--- hungvu2000@... wrote:
                > > >
                > > > > George,
                > > > >
                > > > > Some flat LEI kites have the invert problems
                > due to
                > > > > their flatness. The
                > > > > flatter the kite, the more it tends to invert.
                > I
                > > > > think that all future
                > > > > flat LEI kites will not be too flat to remove
                > this
                > > > > problem.
                > > > >
                > > > > Also, you need some curve in the kite to get
                > the
                > > > > "sled boosting" effect
                > > > > as described in
                > > > >
                > >
                >
                >http://kitesurfingschool.org/kite.htm#Kite%20Design%20Fundamentals
                > > > >
                > > > > (heavy duty reading)
                > > > >
                > > > > Hung.
                > > > >
                > > > > George Sarris wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > >Although I do not own a flat LEI (bow kite) I
                > have
                > > > > >read forums regarding the kite inverting.
                > > > > Supposedly
                > > > > >after that happens, there is little control
                > in
                > > > > >depowering. I plan to buy a flat LEI bow kite
                > by
                > > > > late
                > > > > >spring if the prices come down to what I
                > would
                > > > > >consider reasonable. The prices for a
                > Cabrinha
                > > > > Xbow
                > > > > >16m are around $1700 complete. I would
                > consider
                > > > > >purchasing one if the price was around
                > $1200-$1300.
                > > > > >
                > > > > >George
                > > > > >
                > > > > >--- hungvu2000@... wrote:
                > > > > >
                > > > > > > Having used a new flat LEI in the last
                > couple
                > > > > weeks
                > > > > > > on snow, my response
                > > > > > > is a definite yes for snow (assuming that
                > all
                > > > > flat
                > > > > > > LEIs are somewhat
                > > > > > > similar).
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > So far, there are almost no negative
                > things
                > > > > about
                > > > > > > the flat LEI kite I used.
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > The positive things are:
                > > > > > > - Depower: boy, can these flat kite ever
                > > > > > > DEpower. I've never had to
                > > > > > > use the safety leash and wonder whether
                > you need
                > > > > it.
                > > > > > > There was a time I
                > > > > > > crash landed and the bar got off my hand,
                > the
                > > > > kite
                > > > > > > lost control and shot
                > > > > > > across the wind window. I was not dragged
                > > > > around at
                > > > > > > all for that.
                > > > > > > - Relaunch on snow: even better than foil.
                > > > > You
                > > > > > > just let go off the
                > > > > > > bar and the kite will slowly drop and
                > hover at
                > > > > the
                > > > > > > window edge waiting
                > > > > > > for relaunch. When you relaunch, it goes
                > up
                > > > > slowly
                > > > > > > and not dragging you
                > > > > > > around like foil.
                > > > > > > - Less kite to carry around: A single 9m
                > > > > feels
                > > > > > > like a 8m/10m combo
                > > > > > > (or even a 7m/11m combo). Two kite quiver
                > is
                > > > > now
                > > > > > > possible. For me
                > > > > > > probably a 9 and a 15 flat LEI.
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > Jumping is very good and hang time is
                > excellent.
                >
                === message truncated ===


                __________________________________________________
                Do You Yahoo!?
                Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                http://mail.yahoo.com
              • hungvu2000@rogers.com
                I personally have not used the first generartion flat LEI but via direct talk with others who have tried it, the differences mainly in relaunch problem, invert
                Message 7 of 14 , Mar 7, 2006
                  I personally have not used the first generartion flat LEI but via direct
                  talk with others who have tried it, the differences mainly in relaunch
                  problem, invert problem and somewhat heavier bar pressure.

                  I would think that most 2nd generation flat LEIs would not have the same
                  problem as the first and by next year, all flat LEIs (third generation?)
                  would solve all of the first generation weaknesses...

                  The flatness of the kite directly influences its behaviour. The flatter
                  the LEI, the more it flies like foil. The less flat the kite the more
                  it flies like a traditional LEI and therefore more familiar to most kiters.

                  Hung.

                  George Sarris wrote:

                  >Hung,
                  >How much difference is there between the "first
                  >generation" and "second generation" flat LEI kites?
                  >Are the second generation kites less flat such as the
                  >Cabrinha Switchblade versus the Crossbow? Or is it
                  >bar pressure or something else?
                  >
                  >Thanks,
                  >George
                  >
                  >--- hungvu2000@... wrote:
                  >
                  > > Ishtar,
                  > >
                  > > The kitesurfing FAQ has some info at
                  > >
                  >http://kitesurfingschool.org/faqs.htm#What%20types%20of%20kite%20can%20I%20use
                  > >
                  > > . Also here is a very brief summary of kite
                  > > designs:
                  > > - Wipika Classic Inflatable: Easy to relaunch,
                  > > stable, low
                  > > performance, non-depowerable
                  > > - Kiteski Kites: High performance, cumbersome to
                  > > relaunch but
                  > > reliable, non-depowerable
                  > > - Closed cell foil: High performance, non
                  > > depowerable, easy to relaunch
                  > > - Seasmik: High performance, heavy bar pressure,
                  > > depowerable
                  > > - 4 line inflatable: High performance,
                  > > depowerable, light bar pressure
                  > > - Arc: High performance, depowerable, light bar
                  > > pressure
                  > > - Flat 4 line LEI: High performance, 100%
                  > > depowerable, light bar
                  > > pressure, very easy to relaunch
                  > >
                  > > Flat LEI: First generation: Nova, Crossbow. Second
                  > > generation: Waroo,
                  > > Sonic, etc.
                  > >
                  > > Hung.
                  > >
                  > > ISHTAR LUESBY wrote:
                  > >
                  > > >As a beginner and just learning the sport Hung,
                  > > could you point me to a history
                  > > >of different kite design and performance. Could you
                  > > also give a few examples of
                  > > >the new flat LEI kites? Many thanks Ishtar
                  > > >
                  > > >hungvu2000@... wrote: But wouldn't that
                  > > make it like the Seasmik that we
                  > > >had few years ago?
                  > > >
                  > > >I would rate the new flat LEI as the way the future
                  > > kites should be
                  > > >(both for water and snow).
                  > > >
                  > > >We talked about 100% depowered LEI and the "chicken
                  > > loop is the safety
                  > > >leash" concept a few years back and now the flat
                  > > LEIs seems to deliver
                  > > >it alright without any (or much) compromise.
                  > > >
                  > > >I was a long supporter of foils and still am in
                  > > some respects but the
                  > > >new flat LEIs really impressed me.
                  > > >
                  > > >Some of them have the invert problem (being too
                  > > flat) but most of them
                  > > >(and all of them eventually) would eliminate this
                  > > completely by being
                  > > >less flat or a firmer LE.
                  > > >
                  > > >P.S., To launch the kite today (in good strong
                  > > wind), I attached the
                  > > >chicken loop to my snowboard then went to the kite
                  > > to launch it at the
                  > > >edge of the wind window. I went back to my
                  > > snowboard and casually
                  > > >removed the chicken loop from the snowboard and
                  > > attached it to my
                  > > >harness. I then sit down, put the snowboard binding
                  > > on and slowly
                  > > >brought the kite up and kited. This is pretty
                  > > amazing!
                  > > >
                  > > >Hung.
                  > > >
                  > > >George Sarris wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > >Hung,
                  > > > >Could perhaps the inverting be controlled by
                  > > adding a
                  > > > >few more bridle lines that attach to points not
                  > > on the
                  > > > >leading edge of the kite such as that of a foil?
                  > > I've
                  > > > >never heard of a foil kite inverting, but I've
                  > > not
                  > > > >read much about foils. In rating foils versus bow
                  > > > >kites, which would your recommend? I may try a
                  > > foil
                  > > > >if the bow kite prices stay high (Flysurfer
                  > > versus
                  > > > >Cabrinha Xbow).
                  > > > >Thanks,
                  > > > >George
                  > > > >
                  > > > >--- hungvu2000@... wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > > George,
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Some flat LEI kites have the invert problems
                  > > due to
                  > > > > > their flatness. The
                  > > > > > flatter the kite, the more it tends to invert.
                  > > I
                  > > > > > think that all future
                  > > > > > flat LEI kites will not be too flat to remove
                  > > this
                  > > > > > problem.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Also, you need some curve in the kite to get
                  > > the
                  > > > > > "sled boosting" effect
                  > > > > > as described in
                  > > > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >http://kitesurfingschool.org/kite.htm#Kite%20Design%20Fundamentals
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > (heavy duty reading)
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Hung.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > George Sarris wrote:
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > >Although I do not own a flat LEI (bow kite) I
                  > > have
                  > > > > > >read forums regarding the kite inverting.
                  > > > > > Supposedly
                  > > > > > >after that happens, there is little control
                  > > in
                  > > > > > >depowering. I plan to buy a flat LEI bow kite
                  > > by
                  > > > > > late
                  > > > > > >spring if the prices come down to what I
                  > > would
                  > > > > > >consider reasonable. The prices for a
                  > > Cabrinha
                  > > > > > Xbow
                  > > > > > >16m are around $1700 complete. I would
                  > > consider
                  > > > > > >purchasing one if the price was around
                  > > $1200-$1300.
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > >George
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > >--- hungvu2000@... wrote:
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > Having used a new flat LEI in the last
                  > > couple
                  > > > > > weeks
                  > > > > > > > on snow, my response
                  > > > > > > > is a definite yes for snow (assuming that
                  > > all
                  > > > > > flat
                  > > > > > > > LEIs are somewhat
                  > > > > > > > similar).
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > So far, there are almost no negative
                  > > things
                  > > > > > about
                  > > > > > > > the flat LEI kite I used.
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > The positive things are:
                  > > > > > > > - Depower: boy, can these flat kite ever
                  > > > > > > > DEpower. I've never had to
                  > > > > > > > use the safety leash and wonder whether
                  > > you need
                  > > > > > it.
                  > > > > > > > There was a time I
                  > > > > > > > crash landed and the bar got off my hand,
                  > > the
                  > > > > > kite
                  > > > > > > > lost control and shot
                  > > > > > > > across the wind window. I was not dragged
                  > > > > > around at
                  > > > > > > > all for that.
                  > > > > > > > - Relaunch on snow: even better than foil.
                  > > > > > You
                  > > > > > > > just let go off the
                  > > > > > > > bar and the kite will slowly drop and
                  > > hover at
                  > > > > > the
                  > > > > > > > window edge waiting
                  > > > > > > > for relaunch. When you relaunch, it goes
                  > > up
                  > > > > > slowly
                  > > > > > > > and not dragging you
                  > > > > > > > around like foil.
                  > > > > > > > - Less kite to carry around: A single 9m
                  > > > > > feels
                  > > > > > > > like a 8m/10m combo
                  > > > > > > > (or even a 7m/11m combo). Two kite quiver
                  > > is
                  > > > > > now
                  > > > > > > > possible. For me
                  > > > > > > > probably a 9 and a 15 flat LEI.
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > Jumping is very good and hang time is
                  > > excellent.
                  > >
                  >=== message truncated ===
                  >
                  >
                  >__________________________________________________
                  >Do You Yahoo!?
                  >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                  >http://mail.yahoo.com
                  >
                  >
                  >If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
                  >http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
                  >to the most frequently asked questions.
                  >
                  >To unsubscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                  >To subscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >SPONSORED LINKS
                  >Sport fun
                  ><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sport+fun&w1=Sport+fun&w2=Fun&w3=Kitesurfing&c=3&s=41&.sig=Afks9WONK-OzIKbJVtuYtw>
                  > Fun
                  ><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Fun&w1=Sport+fun&w2=Fun&w3=Kitesurfing&c=3&s=41&.sig=Sj-_6zKuaYXUxZJifkyC4A>
                  > Kitesurfing
                  ><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Kitesurfing&w1=Sport+fun&w2=Fun&w3=Kitesurfing&c=3&s=41&.sig=PSOJPhOJnQgXbc6m-t582A>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                  >
                  > * Visit your group "ksurfschool
                  > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ksurfschool>" on the web.
                  >
                  > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > <mailto:ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                  >
                  > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                  > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                  >
                  >
                  >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Kitepower Sydney
                  G day Hung and George There is no such thing as first and second gen that is not an accurate way to describe the 2 types of kites that are being sold at the
                  Message 8 of 14 , Mar 8, 2006
                    G'day Hung and George

                    There is no such thing as first and second gen that is not an accurate way
                    to describe the 2 types of kites that are being sold at the moment.

                    The Cabrinha Crossbow and Switchblade, Slingshot TD, Airush Halo, Liquid
                    Force Assault, Takoon Nova, etc are all "bow" kite based on a design by
                    Bruno Legainoux. Bruno invented the popular C shaped kites we have all been
                    using too.

                    Then there is another group of kites that are based on that design, but with
                    enough differences so as not to infringe on the patent Bruno holds or so it
                    would seem.

                    First and second gen is marketing babble, sorry Hung.

                    Bruno has responded to many enquiries on www.kiteforum.com do a search. You
                    will find that there are specific differences, and trade offs for the
                    different shaped kites.

                    The so called second generation kites have straight trailing edges, are not
                    as wide span, do not depower as well, have less refined bars and control
                    systems, and simply just don't fly as nicely as the original designs from
                    Bruno.

                    Bruno spent time with the Cabrinha kite designer, in China, in secret
                    refining the Crossbow and switchblade designs, and he has stated that they
                    are closest to his preferred design, He is working on refining the design
                    even more and has stated that most of the initial and minor problems, can be
                    overcome.

                    Cya and

                    Goodwinds

                    Steve McCormack
                    www.kitepower.com.au


                    _____

                    From: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com] On
                    Behalf Of hungvu2000@...
                    Sent: Wednesday, 8 March 2006 2:28 PM
                    To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Are new flat LEIs worth it?


                    I personally have not used the first generartion flat LEI but via direct
                    talk with others who have tried it, the differences mainly in relaunch
                    problem, invert problem and somewhat heavier bar pressure.

                    I would think that most 2nd generation flat LEIs would not have the same
                    problem as the first and by next year, all flat LEIs (third generation?)
                    would solve all of the first generation weaknesses...

                    The flatness of the kite directly influences its behaviour. The flatter
                    the LEI, the more it flies like foil. The less flat the kite the more
                    it flies like a traditional LEI and therefore more familiar to most kiters.

                    Hung.

                    George Sarris wrote:

                    >Hung,
                    >How much difference is there between the "first
                    >generation" and "second generation" flat LEI kites?
                    >Are the second generation kites less flat such as the
                    >Cabrinha Switchblade versus the Crossbow? Or is it
                    >bar pressure or something else?
                    >
                    >Thanks,
                    >George
                    >
                    >--- hungvu2000@... wrote:
                    >
                    > > Ishtar,
                    > >
                    > > The kitesurfing FAQ has some info at
                    > >
                    >http://kitesurfingschool.org/faqs.htm#What%20types%20of%20kite%20can%20I%20
                    use
                    > >
                    > > . Also here is a very brief summary of kite
                    > > designs:
                    > > - Wipika Classic Inflatable: Easy to relaunch,
                    > > stable, low
                    > > performance, non-depowerable
                    > > - Kiteski Kites: High performance, cumbersome to
                    > > relaunch but
                    > > reliable, non-depowerable
                    > > - Closed cell foil: High performance, non
                    > > depowerable, easy to relaunch
                    > > - Seasmik: High performance, heavy bar pressure,
                    > > depowerable
                    > > - 4 line inflatable: High performance,
                    > > depowerable, light bar pressure
                    > > - Arc: High performance, depowerable, light bar
                    > > pressure
                    > > - Flat 4 line LEI: High performance, 100%
                    > > depowerable, light bar
                    > > pressure, very easy to relaunch
                    > >
                    > > Flat LEI: First generation: Nova, Crossbow. Second
                    > > generation: Waroo,
                    > > Sonic, etc.
                    > >
                    > > Hung.
                    > >
                    > > ISHTAR LUESBY wrote:
                    > >
                    > > >As a beginner and just learning the sport Hung,
                    > > could you point me to a history
                    > > >of different kite design and performance. Could you
                    > > also give a few examples of
                    > > >the new flat LEI kites? Many thanks Ishtar
                    > > >
                    > > >hungvu2000@... wrote: But wouldn't that
                    > > make it like the Seasmik that we
                    > > >had few years ago?
                    > > >
                    > > >I would rate the new flat LEI as the way the future
                    > > kites should be
                    > > >(both for water and snow).
                    > > >
                    > > >We talked about 100% depowered LEI and the "chicken
                    > > loop is the safety
                    > > >leash" concept a few years back and now the flat
                    > > LEIs seems to deliver
                    > > >it alright without any (or much) compromise.
                    > > >
                    > > >I was a long supporter of foils and still am in
                    > > some respects but the
                    > > >new flat LEIs really impressed me.
                    > > >
                    > > >Some of them have the invert problem (being too
                    > > flat) but most of them
                    > > >(and all of them eventually) would eliminate this
                    > > completely by being
                    > > >less flat or a firmer LE.
                    > > >
                    > > >P.S., To launch the kite today (in good strong
                    > > wind), I attached the
                    > > >chicken loop to my snowboard then went to the kite
                    > > to launch it at the
                    > > >edge of the wind window. I went back to my
                    > > snowboard and casually
                    > > >removed the chicken loop from the snowboard and
                    > > attached it to my
                    > > >harness. I then sit down, put the snowboard binding
                    > > on and slowly
                    > > >brought the kite up and kited. This is pretty
                    > > amazing!
                    > > >
                    > > >Hung.
                    > > >
                    > > >George Sarris wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > >Hung,
                    > > > >Could perhaps the inverting be controlled by
                    > > adding a
                    > > > >few more bridle lines that attach to points not
                    > > on the
                    > > > >leading edge of the kite such as that of a foil?
                    > > I've
                    > > > >never heard of a foil kite inverting, but I've
                    > > not
                    > > > >read much about foils. In rating foils versus bow
                    > > > >kites, which would your recommend? I may try a
                    > > foil
                    > > > >if the bow kite prices stay high (Flysurfer
                    > > versus
                    > > > >Cabrinha Xbow).
                    > > > >Thanks,
                    > > > >George
                    > > > >
                    > > > >--- hungvu2000@... wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > > George,
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Some flat LEI kites have the invert problems
                    > > due to
                    > > > > > their flatness. The
                    > > > > > flatter the kite, the more it tends to invert.
                    > > I
                    > > > > > think that all future
                    > > > > > flat LEI kites will not be too flat to remove
                    > > this
                    > > > > > problem.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Also, you need some curve in the kite to get
                    > > the
                    > > > > > "sled boosting" effect
                    > > > > > as described in
                    > > > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >http://kitesurfingschool.org/kite.htm#Kite%20Design%20Fundamentals
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > (heavy duty reading)
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Hung.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > George Sarris wrote:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > >Although I do not own a flat LEI (bow kite) I
                    > > have
                    > > > > > >read forums regarding the kite inverting.
                    > > > > > Supposedly
                    > > > > > >after that happens, there is little control
                    > > in
                    > > > > > >depowering. I plan to buy a flat LEI bow kite
                    > > by
                    > > > > > late
                    > > > > > >spring if the prices come down to what I
                    > > would
                    > > > > > >consider reasonable. The prices for a
                    > > Cabrinha
                    > > > > > Xbow
                    > > > > > >16m are around $1700 complete. I would
                    > > consider
                    > > > > > >purchasing one if the price was around
                    > > $1200-$1300.
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >George
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >--- hungvu2000@... wrote:
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > Having used a new flat LEI in the last
                    > > couple
                    > > > > > weeks
                    > > > > > > > on snow, my response
                    > > > > > > > is a definite yes for snow (assuming that
                    > > all
                    > > > > > flat
                    > > > > > > > LEIs are somewhat
                    > > > > > > > similar).
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > So far, there are almost no negative
                    > > things
                    > > > > > about
                    > > > > > > > the flat LEI kite I used.
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > The positive things are:
                    > > > > > > > - Depower: boy, can these flat kite ever
                    > > > > > > > DEpower. I've never had to
                    > > > > > > > use the safety leash and wonder whether
                    > > you need
                    > > > > > it.
                    > > > > > > > There was a time I
                    > > > > > > > crash landed and the bar got off my hand,
                    > > the
                    > > > > > kite
                    > > > > > > > lost control and shot
                    > > > > > > > across the wind window. I was not dragged
                    > > > > > around at
                    > > > > > > > all for that.
                    > > > > > > > - Relaunch on snow: even better than foil.
                    > > > > > You
                    > > > > > > > just let go off the
                    > > > > > > > bar and the kite will slowly drop and
                    > > hover at
                    > > > > > the
                    > > > > > > > window edge waiting
                    > > > > > > > for relaunch. When you relaunch, it goes
                    > > up
                    > > > > > slowly
                    > > > > > > > and not dragging you
                    > > > > > > > around like foil.
                    > > > > > > > - Less kite to carry around: A single 9m
                    > > > > > feels
                    > > > > > > > like a 8m/10m combo
                    > > > > > > > (or even a 7m/11m combo). Two kite quiver
                    > > is
                    > > > > > now
                    > > > > > > > possible. For me
                    > > > > > > > probably a 9 and a 15 flat LEI.
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > Jumping is very good and hang time is
                    > > excellent.
                    > >
                    >=== message truncated ===
                    >
                    >
                    >__________________________________________________
                    >Do You Yahoo!?
                    >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                    >http://mail.yahoo.com
                    >
                    >
                    >If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
                    >http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
                    >to the most frequently asked questions.
                    >
                    >To unsubscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                    >To subscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >SPONSORED LINKS
                    >Sport fun
                    ><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                    <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sport+fun&w1=Sport+fun&w2=Fun&w3=Kitesu
                    rfing&c=3&s=41&.sig=Afks9WONK-OzIKbJVtuYtw>
                    &k=Sport+fun&w1=Sport+fun&w2=Fun&w3=Kitesurfing&c=3&s=41&.sig=Afks9WONK-OzIK
                    bJVtuYtw>
                    > Fun
                    ><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                    <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Fun&w1=Sport+fun&w2=Fun&w3=Kitesurfing&
                    c=3&s=41&.sig=Sj-_6zKuaYXUxZJifkyC4A>
                    &k=Fun&w1=Sport+fun&w2=Fun&w3=Kitesurfing&c=3&s=41&.sig=Sj-_6zKuaYXUxZJifkyC
                    4A>
                    > Kitesurfing
                    ><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                    <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Kitesurfing&w1=Sport+fun&w2=Fun&w3=Kite
                    surfing&c=3&s=41&.sig=PSOJPhOJnQgXbc6m-t582A>
                    &k=Kitesurfing&w1=Sport+fun&w2=Fun&w3=Kitesurfing&c=3&s=41&.sig=PSOJPhOJnQgX
                    bc6m-t582A>
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >---------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    -----
                    >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                    >
                    > * Visit your group "ksurfschool
                    > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ksurfschool>" on the web.
                    >
                    > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > <mailto:ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                    >
                    > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                    > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                    >
                    >
                    >---------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    -----
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
                    http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
                    to the most frequently asked questions.

                    To unsubscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                    To subscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com





                    SPONSORED LINKS
                    Sport
                    <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sport+fun&w1=Sport+fun&w2=Fun&w3=Kitesu
                    rfing&c=3&s=41&.sig=Afks9WONK-OzIKbJVtuYtw> fun Fun
                    <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Fun&w1=Sport+fun&w2=Fun&w3=Kitesurfing&
                    c=3&s=41&.sig=Sj-_6zKuaYXUxZJifkyC4A> Kitesurfing
                    <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Kitesurfing&w1=Sport+fun&w2=Fun&w3=Kite
                    surfing&c=3&s=41&.sig=PSOJPhOJnQgXbc6m-t582A>

                    _____

                    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



                    * Visit your group "ksurfschool
                    <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ksurfschool> " on the web.


                    * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    <mailto:ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>


                    * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                    <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .


                    _____




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • George Sarris
                    Thanks Hung. I appreciate the information. George ... === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of
                    Message 9 of 14 , Mar 8, 2006
                      Thanks Hung. I appreciate the information.

                      George

                      --- hungvu2000@... wrote:

                      > I personally have not used the first generartion
                      > flat LEI but via direct
                      > talk with others who have tried it, the differences
                      > mainly in relaunch
                      > problem, invert problem and somewhat heavier bar
                      > pressure.
                      >
                      > I would think that most 2nd generation flat LEIs
                      > would not have the same
                      > problem as the first and by next year, all flat LEIs
                      > (third generation?)
                      > would solve all of the first generation
                      > weaknesses...
                      >
                      > The flatness of the kite directly influences its
                      > behaviour. The flatter
                      > the LEI, the more it flies like foil. The less flat
                      > the kite the more
                      > it flies like a traditional LEI and therefore more
                      > familiar to most kiters.
                      >
                      > Hung.
                      >
                      > George Sarris wrote:
                      >
                      > >Hung,
                      > >How much difference is there between the "first
                      > >generation" and "second generation" flat LEI kites?
                      > >Are the second generation kites less flat such as
                      > the
                      > >Cabrinha Switchblade versus the Crossbow? Or is it
                      > >bar pressure or something else?
                      > >
                      > >Thanks,
                      > >George
                      > >
                      > >--- hungvu2000@... wrote:
                      > >
                      > > > Ishtar,
                      > > >
                      > > > The kitesurfing FAQ has some info at
                      > > >
                      >
                      >http://kitesurfingschool.org/faqs.htm#What%20types%20of%20kite%20can%20I%20use
                      > > >
                      > > > . Also here is a very brief summary of kite
                      > > > designs:
                      > > > - Wipika Classic Inflatable: Easy to
                      > relaunch,
                      > > > stable, low
                      > > > performance, non-depowerable
                      > > > - Kiteski Kites: High performance,
                      > cumbersome to
                      > > > relaunch but
                      > > > reliable, non-depowerable
                      > > > - Closed cell foil: High performance, non
                      > > > depowerable, easy to relaunch
                      > > > - Seasmik: High performance, heavy bar
                      > pressure,
                      > > > depowerable
                      > > > - 4 line inflatable: High performance,
                      > > > depowerable, light bar pressure
                      > > > - Arc: High performance, depowerable, light
                      > bar
                      > > > pressure
                      > > > - Flat 4 line LEI: High performance, 100%
                      > > > depowerable, light bar
                      > > > pressure, very easy to relaunch
                      > > >
                      > > > Flat LEI: First generation: Nova, Crossbow.
                      > Second
                      > > > generation: Waroo,
                      > > > Sonic, etc.
                      > > >
                      > > > Hung.
                      > > >
                      > > > ISHTAR LUESBY wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > >As a beginner and just learning the sport Hung,
                      > > > could you point me to a history
                      > > > >of different kite design and performance. Could
                      > you
                      > > > also give a few examples of
                      > > > >the new flat LEI kites? Many thanks Ishtar
                      > > > >
                      > > > >hungvu2000@... wrote: But wouldn't that
                      > > > make it like the Seasmik that we
                      > > > >had few years ago?
                      > > > >
                      > > > >I would rate the new flat LEI as the way the
                      > future
                      > > > kites should be
                      > > > >(both for water and snow).
                      > > > >
                      > > > >We talked about 100% depowered LEI and the
                      > "chicken
                      > > > loop is the safety
                      > > > >leash" concept a few years back and now the
                      > flat
                      > > > LEIs seems to deliver
                      > > > >it alright without any (or much) compromise.
                      > > > >
                      > > > >I was a long supporter of foils and still am in
                      > > > some respects but the
                      > > > >new flat LEIs really impressed me.
                      > > > >
                      > > > >Some of them have the invert problem (being too
                      > > > flat) but most of them
                      > > > >(and all of them eventually) would eliminate
                      > this
                      > > > completely by being
                      > > > >less flat or a firmer LE.
                      > > > >
                      > > > >P.S., To launch the kite today (in good strong
                      > > > wind), I attached the
                      > > > >chicken loop to my snowboard then went to the
                      > kite
                      > > > to launch it at the
                      > > > >edge of the wind window. I went back to my
                      > > > snowboard and casually
                      > > > >removed the chicken loop from the snowboard and
                      > > > attached it to my
                      > > > >harness. I then sit down, put the snowboard
                      > binding
                      > > > on and slowly
                      > > > >brought the kite up and kited. This is pretty
                      > > > amazing!
                      > > > >
                      > > > >Hung.
                      > > > >
                      > > > >George Sarris wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > >Hung,
                      > > > > >Could perhaps the inverting be controlled by
                      > > > adding a
                      > > > > >few more bridle lines that attach to points
                      > not
                      > > > on the
                      > > > > >leading edge of the kite such as that of a
                      > foil?
                      > > > I've
                      > > > > >never heard of a foil kite inverting, but
                      > I've
                      > > > not
                      > > > > >read much about foils. In rating foils versus
                      > bow
                      > > > > >kites, which would your recommend? I may try
                      > a
                      > > > foil
                      > > > > >if the bow kite prices stay high (Flysurfer
                      > > > versus
                      > > > > >Cabrinha Xbow).
                      > > > > >Thanks,
                      > > > > >George
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >--- hungvu2000@... wrote:
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > > George,
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > Some flat LEI kites have the invert
                      > problems
                      > > > due to
                      > > > > > > their flatness. The
                      > > > > > > flatter the kite, the more it tends to
                      > invert.
                      > > > I
                      > > > > > > think that all future
                      > > > > > > flat LEI kites will not be too flat to
                      > remove
                      > > > this
                      > > > > > > problem.
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > Also, you need some curve in the kite to
                      > get
                      > > > the
                      > > > > > > "sled boosting" effect
                      > > > > > > as described in
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >http://kitesurfingschool.org/kite.htm#Kite%20Design%20Fundamentals
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > (heavy duty reading)
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > Hung.
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > George Sarris wrote:
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > >Although I do not own a flat LEI (bow
                      > kite) I
                      > > > have
                      > > > > > > >read forums regarding the kite inverting.
                      > > > > > > Supposedly
                      > > > > > > >after that happens, there is little
                      > control
                      > > > in
                      > > > > > > >depowering. I plan to buy a flat LEI bow
                      > kite
                      > > > by
                      > > > > > > late
                      > > > > > > >spring if the prices come down to what I
                      >
                      === message truncated ===


                      __________________________________________________
                      Do You Yahoo!?
                      Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                      http://mail.yahoo.com
                    • hungvu2000@rogers.com
                      ... Thanks Steve. Sounds like Bruno did confirm the initial minor problems in the first batch of his bow kites (as I heard directly from other kiters) and
                      Message 10 of 14 , Mar 8, 2006
                        Kitepower Sydney wrote:

                        >Bruno spent time with the Cabrinha kite designer, in China, in secret
                        >refining the Crossbow and switchblade designs, and he has stated that they
                        >are closest to his preferred design, He is working on refining the design
                        >even more and has stated that most of the initial and minor problems, can be
                        >overcome.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        Thanks Steve. Sounds like Bruno did confirm the initial minor problems
                        in the first batch of his bow kites (as I heard directly from other
                        kiters) and agreed with me that those minor problems can be overcome.
                        Why did he stated MOST and not ALL? Aren't they pretty straight forward
                        to fix?

                        Hung.
                      • Kitepower Sydney
                        I guess thats because most of the problems are not real problems Hung. The problems have been blown out of proportion by pimps for other brands that did
                        Message 11 of 14 , Mar 8, 2006
                          I guess thats because most of the problems are not real problems Hung. The
                          "problems" have been blown out of proportion by pimps for other brands
                          that did not or do not have a bow kite.
                          So some "problems" are not problems at all, and therefore do not need to be
                          fixed.

                          All the flat and bow kites on the market have been out for max 6 months so I
                          think it is a bit premature to be calling any of them second gen yet.

                          Cya and

                          Goodwinds

                          Steve McCormack
                          www.kitepower.com.au


                          _____

                          From: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com] On
                          Behalf Of hungvu2000@...
                          Sent: Thursday, 9 March 2006 10:39 AM
                          To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Are new flat LEIs worth it?


                          Kitepower Sydney wrote:

                          >Bruno spent time with the Cabrinha kite designer, in China, in secret
                          >refining the Crossbow and switchblade designs, and he has stated that they
                          >are closest to his preferred design, He is working on refining the design
                          >even more and has stated that most of the initial and minor problems, can
                          be
                          >overcome.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          Thanks Steve. Sounds like Bruno did confirm the initial minor problems
                          in the first batch of his bow kites (as I heard directly from other
                          kiters) and agreed with me that those minor problems can be overcome.
                          Why did he stated MOST and not ALL? Aren't they pretty straight forward
                          to fix?

                          Hung.



                          If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
                          http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
                          to the most frequently asked questions.

                          To unsubscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                          To subscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com





                          SPONSORED LINKS
                          Sport
                          <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sport+fun&w1=Sport+fun&w2=Fun&w3=Kitesu
                          rfing&c=3&s=41&.sig=Afks9WONK-OzIKbJVtuYtw> fun Fun
                          <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Fun&w1=Sport+fun&w2=Fun&w3=Kitesurfing&
                          c=3&s=41&.sig=Sj-_6zKuaYXUxZJifkyC4A> Kitesurfing
                          <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Kitesurfing&w1=Sport+fun&w2=Fun&w3=Kite
                          surfing&c=3&s=41&.sig=PSOJPhOJnQgXbc6m-t582A>

                          _____

                          YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



                          * Visit your group "ksurfschool
                          <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ksurfschool> " on the web.


                          * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          <mailto:ksurfschool-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>


                          * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                          <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .


                          _____




                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.