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Re: Safe kite size to fly on land? Recommended larger trainer?

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  • John F. Kim
    First, big thanks to Chris, George, Sara, Andre, Iain, and flkitesurfer for responding to my questions. Very helpful! Second, I took my first water lesson
    Message 1 of 11 , May 21, 2004
      First, big thanks to Chris, George, Sara, Andre, Iain, and
      flkitesurfer for responding to my questions. Very helpful!

      Second, I took my first water lesson yesterday, and while I
      wasn't quite able to get the water start down, I did get my upwind
      body dragging down and felt pretty good about steering the kite.
      Even when I got lost control of the kite, got hauled out of the water
      (not very high) and skipped across the water (both right side up and
      upside down), I was able to keep the kite flying most of the time.
      Crashing it on leading edge about 4 times, was able to re-launch it
      fairly easily each time with the Recon system.

      Quick summary of conditions:
      --San Francisco Bay, Alameda, 5:30pm PDT
      --About one mile NorthWest of Alameda beach with Waverunner support
      --Cabrinha Access 9m 4-line LEI kite with 20 or 25m lines
      --45 or 48cm Cabrinha bar with PowerLock and Recon system
      --4/3 wetsuit, porous gloves, PFD, Pro-Tec WakePro helmet, seat
      harness was XL (ProLimit?), which turned out to be too big.
      --Wind speed average 15mph, gusts up to 22 mph; chop 6"-18"
      --Cabrinha twintip board, 158cm, model unknown, sandal bindings
      --Experienced kiters were using 11m and 12m kites, later 14m kites as
      wind died down.
      --Student is 195 lbs with some surfing, windsurfing and snowboarding
      experience but no previous water kiting experience.
      --Lesson from www.kitewindsurf.com (good guys, and gals)

      Based on this one water lesson I have concluded...
      --I do not want to fly my 9m LEI kite on land in 15mph winds because
      it could hauled me around in a gust
      --I need to learn to re-launch kite without using Recon system (by
      swimming towards the kite)
      --Recon emergency depower system great if you are concious
      --Waverunner/jetski support very helpful, may increase lesson cost
      --Basic kite easier than expected (trainer practice helps)
      --Skillful kite flying harder than expected
      --Body dragging upwind easier than expected for me
      --Waterstarting harder than expected for me (was very much like the
      one time I tried wakeboarding)
      --Getting hauled out of water by kite quite fun (nothing dangerous
      downwind) except when leads to swallowing seawater
      --Cabrinha PowerLock great except easy to engage by mistake, takes
      active thought to disengage it (surely becomes intuitive with
      practice)
      --Having leash that allows bar spinning is very nice for untwisting
      lines (my own bar leash wrist safety does not allow easy bar spinning)
      --I'm really close to being able to waterstart, I think...

      As advised by several people, at this point buying a larger foil kite
      just to practice with on land for kitesurfing no longer makes sense
      for me. I will still enjoy flying my 1m foil for fun and may buy a
      2m foil kite as a recreational kite, but unless I get into kiteskiing
      or kitebuggying or mountain boards, I need to practice with the LEI
      kite on (or at least near) the water.

      First hand safety system experience. On my last attempt to
      waterstart, I lost control of the kite and dove it through
      the power window. As happened several times, I got hauled out of
      then along the water, but this time my harness slipped down around my
      legs and the chicken loop donkey dick came out of the hook, detaching
      me from the kite and sheeting it out to full power. I had kite close
      to neutral but was hanging onto the bar only and being dragged along
      slowly. I kicked off the harness but didn't want to let go of bar
      because then we'd have a runaway kite. Instructor advised activating
      Recon safety which depowered kite about 85% and it slowly landed,
      where it retained 5 to 15% power depending which way it was
      flapping. I slowly wound in the lines then practiced self-rescue
      with the kite.

      In retrospect I should have pulled in the sheeting system to see if
      that reduced power enough for me to comfortably hang onto the kite,
      but even then I could not have reattached the chicken loop because I
      had no more harness! Instructor picked up harness and board, we
      wrapped up kite and called it a day.

      I tried once to re-launch the crashed kite without using Recon, but
      it didn't work. I think I didn't swim hard enough towards the kite
      to make it flip over on its back. Actually in a few cases it crashed
      on its side and I was able to relaunch it just using the bar.

      All in all a great experience and I certainly would recommend
      KiteWindSurf if you are looking for lessons in the San Francisco Bay
      area.

      --John Kim



      --- In ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com, "John F. Kim" <jcasekim@y...>
      wrote:
      > Hello KiteSchool... Five questions. Feel free to answer just one
      or
      > two--don't need to try to answer all 5!
      >
      > 1) What is the maximum LEI kite size that is safe to fly on land?
      > I'd like to do some land practice and it's not always easy for me
      to
      > get to the beach for practice. I weigh 195 lbs (about 87 kilos)
      and
    • Chris Glazier
      Nice report John. It sounds like a successful first lesson. Good luck and have fun. Chris G. ... water ... and ... time. ... it ... as ... snowboarding ...
      Message 2 of 11 , May 23, 2004
        Nice report John. It sounds like a successful first lesson. Good
        luck and have fun.
        Chris G.

        --- In ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com, "John F. Kim" <jcasekim@y...>
        wrote:
        > First, big thanks to Chris, George, Sara, Andre, Iain, and
        > flkitesurfer for responding to my questions. Very helpful!
        >
        > Second, I took my first water lesson yesterday, and while I
        > wasn't quite able to get the water start down, I did get my upwind
        > body dragging down and felt pretty good about steering the kite.
        > Even when I got lost control of the kite, got hauled out of the
        water
        > (not very high) and skipped across the water (both right side up
        and
        > upside down), I was able to keep the kite flying most of the
        time.
        > Crashing it on leading edge about 4 times, was able to re-launch
        it
        > fairly easily each time with the Recon system.
        >
        > Quick summary of conditions:
        > --San Francisco Bay, Alameda, 5:30pm PDT
        > --About one mile NorthWest of Alameda beach with Waverunner support
        > --Cabrinha Access 9m 4-line LEI kite with 20 or 25m lines
        > --45 or 48cm Cabrinha bar with PowerLock and Recon system
        > --4/3 wetsuit, porous gloves, PFD, Pro-Tec WakePro helmet, seat
        > harness was XL (ProLimit?), which turned out to be too big.
        > --Wind speed average 15mph, gusts up to 22 mph; chop 6"-18"
        > --Cabrinha twintip board, 158cm, model unknown, sandal bindings
        > --Experienced kiters were using 11m and 12m kites, later 14m kites
        as
        > wind died down.
        > --Student is 195 lbs with some surfing, windsurfing and
        snowboarding
        > experience but no previous water kiting experience.
        > --Lesson from www.kitewindsurf.com (good guys, and gals)
        >
        > Based on this one water lesson I have concluded...
        > --I do not want to fly my 9m LEI kite on land in 15mph winds
        because
        > it could hauled me around in a gust
        > --I need to learn to re-launch kite without using Recon system (by
        > swimming towards the kite)
        > --Recon emergency depower system great if you are concious
        > --Waverunner/jetski support very helpful, may increase lesson cost
        > --Basic kite easier than expected (trainer practice helps)
        > --Skillful kite flying harder than expected
        > --Body dragging upwind easier than expected for me
        > --Waterstarting harder than expected for me (was very much like
        the
        > one time I tried wakeboarding)
        > --Getting hauled out of water by kite quite fun (nothing dangerous
        > downwind) except when leads to swallowing seawater
        > --Cabrinha PowerLock great except easy to engage by mistake, takes
        > active thought to disengage it (surely becomes intuitive with
        > practice)
        > --Having leash that allows bar spinning is very nice for
        untwisting
        > lines (my own bar leash wrist safety does not allow easy bar
        spinning)
        > --I'm really close to being able to waterstart, I think...
        >
        > As advised by several people, at this point buying a larger foil
        kite
        > just to practice with on land for kitesurfing no longer makes
        sense
        > for me. I will still enjoy flying my 1m foil for fun and may buy
        a
        > 2m foil kite as a recreational kite, but unless I get into
        kiteskiing
        > or kitebuggying or mountain boards, I need to practice with the
        LEI
        > kite on (or at least near) the water.
        >
        > First hand safety system experience. On my last attempt to
        > waterstart, I lost control of the kite and dove it through
        > the power window. As happened several times, I got hauled out of
        > then along the water, but this time my harness slipped down around
        my
        > legs and the chicken loop donkey dick came out of the hook,
        detaching
        > me from the kite and sheeting it out to full power. I had kite
        close
        > to neutral but was hanging onto the bar only and being dragged
        along
        > slowly. I kicked off the harness but didn't want to let go of bar
        > because then we'd have a runaway kite. Instructor advised
        activating
        > Recon safety which depowered kite about 85% and it slowly landed,
        > where it retained 5 to 15% power depending which way it was
        > flapping. I slowly wound in the lines then practiced self-rescue
        > with the kite.
        >
        > In retrospect I should have pulled in the sheeting system to see
        if
        > that reduced power enough for me to comfortably hang onto the
        kite,
        > but even then I could not have reattached the chicken loop because
        I
        > had no more harness! Instructor picked up harness and board, we
        > wrapped up kite and called it a day.
        >
        > I tried once to re-launch the crashed kite without using Recon,
        but
        > it didn't work. I think I didn't swim hard enough towards the
        kite
        > to make it flip over on its back. Actually in a few cases it
        crashed
        > on its side and I was able to relaunch it just using the bar.
        >
        > All in all a great experience and I certainly would recommend
        > KiteWindSurf if you are looking for lessons in the San Francisco
        Bay
        > area.
        >
        > --John Kim
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com, "John F. Kim" <jcasekim@y...>
        > wrote:
        > > Hello KiteSchool... Five questions. Feel free to answer just
        one
        > or
        > > two--don't need to try to answer all 5!
        > >
        > > 1) What is the maximum LEI kite size that is safe to fly on
        land?
        > > I'd like to do some land practice and it's not always easy for
        me
        > to
        > > get to the beach for practice. I weigh 195 lbs (about 87 kilos)
        > and
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