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Re: [ksurfschool] Re: Severe accident at Eckwarden

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  • George Sarris
    This is very sad in that the accident could have been avoided. Winds 33-50 kts are very extreme, even for experienced windsurfers. The gusts can knock a man
    Message 1 of 11 , Mar 25, 2004
      This is very sad in that the accident could have been
      avoided. Winds 33-50 kts are very extreme, even for
      experienced windsurfers. The gusts can knock a man
      over standing on the beach let alone on a windsurfer
      or hooked up to a kite. Gusty conditions can be a
      formula for disaster if safety precautions are not
      followed.

      Consider my recent experience with not so severe
      conditions below.

      Two weeks ago I went out in conditions where the winds
      were averaging 13 kts with lulls to 9 kts and gusts to
      17 kts max. I checked the weather reports prior to
      going out. I had measured the wind with a digital
      wind meter for at least 5 minutes before deciding
      which kite to rig. I had an assist in launching my
      15.2m kite. The wind was side shore. Being mindful
      of safety I was way out in the water with the kite
      being launched about 3 meters from the shore out in
      the water. As it turned out I launched in a lull
      followed immediately by a gust that could have been
      well over 17 kts. The kite stalled in the lull and
      turned left across the power zone during the gust.
      Instead of bringing the kite to the zenith which I am
      sure would have lofted me, I let the kite go across
      the power zone low to the water to the other side of
      the wind window which was clear water. I was dragged
      at speed approx. 50 meters across the water until the
      kite reached the edge of the window when I was able to
      hook in and depower. It was definitely an adrenaline
      rush. Noteworthy is when I launched I was not hooked
      in. I could have dropped the bar easily but I was in
      no danger of hitting anything, maybe a slow fish. So
      I hung on. Needless to say it was a wake up call for
      me and thankfully I followed safety procedures(I
      always do). I wear a helmut, gloves, vest, booties,
      and carry a hook knife.

      Fly Safely. This is not called an extreme sport for
      nothing.

      Regards,
      Jake

      --- hungvuatnetcomdotca <hungvu2000@...> wrote:
      > My condolences!
      >
      > This is a very sad accident as it can be easily
      > avoided if the
      > kitesurfer had followed at least one of the golden
      > rules of very
      > strong wind kitesurfing.
      >
      > I have personally kitesurfed in wind almost as
      > strong and as unstable
      > as this (when the average weight windsurfers use
      > high 3's and low 4's
      > sails - and Cory Roeseller also mentioned to me that
      > he had been out
      > in similar very strong wind at the Gorge) but with a
      > much smaller kite
      > (Wipika Classic 3.5), shorter lines 15m or 20m and
      > didn't hook in
      > until I was in open water.
      >
      > I can see someone twice my weight (250 lbs) use a 7m
      > low performance
      > LEI in similar wind but for an average 175 lbs (my
      > assumption) to use
      > a 12m or even a 8m is way too much.
      >
      > Hung.
      >
      > --- In ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Iossi"
      > <flkitesurfer@h...>
      > wrote:
      > > A summary of the circumstances reported for this
      > sad accident and
      > commentary
      > > have been uploaded to to the address listed below.
      > My sincere
      > condolences
      > > go out to the family, friends of this man and
      > German kiteboarders in
      > > general.
      > >
      > > http://www.kiteforum.com/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=131
      > >
      > > Other articles both current and from the past
      > also appear at this
      > address.
      > > More content will be added to this location in the
      > future.
      > > _________________
      > > FKA, Inc.
      > > transcribed by: Rick Iossi
      > >
      > >
      >
      _________________________________________________________________
      > > All the action. All the drama. Get NCAA hoops
      > coverage at MSN Sports by
      > > ESPN.
      > http://msn.espn.go.com/index.html?partnersite=espn
      >
      >


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    • kennywek@aol.com
      Jake, Thanks for the warning. It helps people appreciate the danger in this sport when that happens in a circumstance where you wouldn t usually expect to have
      Message 2 of 11 , Mar 25, 2004
        Jake,

        Thanks for the warning. It helps people appreciate the danger in this
        sport when that happens in a circumstance where you wouldn't usually expect to
        have a problem.


        Billl Kenny


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • jakob Thegerström
        I have the feeling this sport is safer with foil kites. The LEI kites all seam to have the same problem in gusty conditions: In the wind drop they fall back
        Message 3 of 11 , Mar 26, 2004
          I have the feeling this sport is safer with foil
          kites. The LEI kites all seam to have the same problem
          in gusty conditions: In the wind drop they fall back
          right in the power zone. Even if you're an experienced
          kiter you can't do much about it. Then the wind picks
          up you got hundred of kilograms in your lines. This
          has happened to me very often with my 2001 and 2002
          LEI kites.
          How does the 2004 LEI kites handle gusty winds? Are
          these kites better than the older 2003-2002... LEI
          kites?!
          I recently tested the flysurfer voodoo foil kite in
          very gusty conditions 4-24knots, the wind direction
          changed by 20-45 degrees. The kite was unaffected by
          these gusty winds, it never dropped and always stayed
          where I wanted it to stay in the wind window... Maybe
          every kiter should have a foil for gusty winds? My
          experience is that LEI kites do not work in these
          winds...

          /J


          --- kennywek@... skrev:
          ---------------------------------
          Jake,

          Thanks for the warning. It helps people appreciate
          the danger in this
          sport when that happens in a circumstance where you
          wouldn't usually expect to
          have a problem.


          Billl Kenny


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



          If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
          http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the
          answers
          to the most frequently asked questions.

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        • Sax, Steve, M.D.
          hung: what are the golden rules of very strong wind kitesurfing ?. ... From: George Sarris [mailto:jakefarley2000@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004
          Message 4 of 11 , Mar 26, 2004
            hung: what are the "golden rules of very strong wind kitesurfing"?.


            -----Original Message-----
            From: George Sarris [mailto:jakefarley2000@...]
            Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:52 PM
            To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com; FKSA
            Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Re: Severe accident at Eckwarden


            This is very sad in that the accident could have been
            avoided. Winds 33-50 kts are very extreme, even for
            experienced windsurfers. The gusts can knock a man
            over standing on the beach let alone on a windsurfer
            or hooked up to a kite. Gusty conditions can be a
            formula for disaster if safety precautions are not
            followed.

            Consider my recent experience with not so severe
            conditions below.

            Two weeks ago I went out in conditions where the winds
            were averaging 13 kts with lulls to 9 kts and gusts to
            17 kts max. I checked the weather reports prior to
            going out. I had measured the wind with a digital
            wind meter for at least 5 minutes before deciding
            which kite to rig. I had an assist in launching my
            15.2m kite. The wind was side shore. Being mindful
            of safety I was way out in the water with the kite
            being launched about 3 meters from the shore out in
            the water. As it turned out I launched in a lull
            followed immediately by a gust that could have been
            well over 17 kts. The kite stalled in the lull and
            turned left across the power zone during the gust.
            Instead of bringing the kite to the zenith which I am
            sure would have lofted me, I let the kite go across
            the power zone low to the water to the other side of
            the wind window which was clear water. I was dragged
            at speed approx. 50 meters across the water until the
            kite reached the edge of the window when I was able to
            hook in and depower. It was definitely an adrenaline
            rush. Noteworthy is when I launched I was not hooked
            in. I could have dropped the bar easily but I was in
            no danger of hitting anything, maybe a slow fish. So
            I hung on. Needless to say it was a wake up call for
            me and thankfully I followed safety procedures(I
            always do). I wear a helmut, gloves, vest, booties,
            and carry a hook knife.

            Fly Safely. This is not called an extreme sport for
            nothing.

            Regards,
            Jake

            --- hungvuatnetcomdotca <hungvu2000@...> wrote:
            > My condolences!
            >
            > This is a very sad accident as it can be easily
            > avoided if the
            > kitesurfer had followed at least one of the golden
            > rules of very
            > strong wind kitesurfing.
            >
            > I have personally kitesurfed in wind almost as
            > strong and as unstable
            > as this (when the average weight windsurfers use
            > high 3's and low 4's
            > sails - and Cory Roeseller also mentioned to me that
            > he had been out
            > in similar very strong wind at the Gorge) but with a
            > much smaller kite
            > (Wipika Classic 3.5), shorter lines 15m or 20m and
            > didn't hook in
            > until I was in open water.
            >
            > I can see someone twice my weight (250 lbs) use a 7m
            > low performance
            > LEI in similar wind but for an average 175 lbs (my
            > assumption) to use
            > a 12m or even a 8m is way too much.
            >
            > Hung.
            >
            > --- In ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Iossi"
            > <flkitesurfer@h...>
            > wrote:
            > > A summary of the circumstances reported for this
            > sad accident and
            > commentary
            > > have been uploaded to to the address listed below.
            > My sincere
            > condolences
            > > go out to the family, friends of this man and
            > German kiteboarders in
            > > general.
            > >
            > > http://www.kiteforum.com/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=131
            <http://www.kiteforum.com/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=131>
            > >
            > > Other articles both current and from the past
            > also appear at this
            > address.
            > > More content will be added to this location in the
            > future.
            > > _________________
            > > FKA, Inc.
            > > transcribed by: Rick Iossi
            > >
            > >
            >
            _________________________________________________________________
            > > All the action. All the drama. Get NCAA hoops
            > coverage at MSN Sports by
            > > ESPN.
            > http://msn.espn.go.com/index.html?partnersite=espn
            <http://msn.espn.go.com/index.html?partnersite=espn>
            >
            >


            __________________________________
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            If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
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          • Kite Power (Sydney)
            I have 12 years expereince with power kiting, I have travelled more than 15,00klms in my buggy, and I have kitesurfed for 6 years, my experience is that in
            Message 5 of 11 , Mar 26, 2004
              I have 12 years expereince with power kiting, I have travelled more than 15,00klms in my buggy, and I have kitesurfed for 6 years, my experience is that in extremely gusty winds, you should stay home.
              Conditions like you describe are dangerous to kite in, and all foils I have ever flown will misbehave in winds like that, and inflatos will too.
              The newer 2004 inflatos do handle a lot better than pre 2002 kites, as do foils.
              The number one reason for being lofted in these conditions is keeping the kite overhead, keep the kite below 11 o'clock, as we say keep it low and go!
              Cya and
              Goodwinds
              Steve McCormack
              www.kitepower.com.au

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: jakob Thegerström
              To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 7:01 PM
              Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Re: Severe accident at Eckwarden


              I have the feeling this sport is safer with foil
              kites. The LEI kites all seam to have the same problem
              in gusty conditions: In the wind drop they fall back
              right in the power zone. Even if you're an experienced
              kiter you can't do much about it. Then the wind picks
              up you got hundred of kilograms in your lines. This
              has happened to me very often with my 2001 and 2002
              LEI kites.
              How does the 2004 LEI kites handle gusty winds? Are
              these kites better than the older 2003-2002... LEI
              kites?!
              I recently tested the flysurfer voodoo foil kite in
              very gusty conditions 4-24knots, the wind direction
              changed by 20-45 degrees. The kite was unaffected by
              these gusty winds, it never dropped and always stayed
              where I wanted it to stay in the wind window... Maybe
              every kiter should have a foil for gusty winds? My
              experience is that LEI kites do not work in these
              winds...

              /J


              --- kennywek@... skrev:
              ---------------------------------
              Jake,

              Thanks for the warning. It helps people appreciate
              the danger in this
              sport when that happens in a circumstance where you
              wouldn't usually expect to
              have a problem.


              Billl Kenny


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



              If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
              http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the
              answers
              to the most frequently asked questions.

              To unsubscribe, please send an email to
              ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
              To subscribe, please send an email to
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              Höstrusk och grå moln - köp en resa till solen på Yahoo! Resor på adressen http://se.docs.yahoo.com/travel/index.html


              If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
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              to the most frequently asked questions.

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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • hungvuatnetcomdotca
              ... Some of them: 1- Use kite size appropriated for the condition, when in doubt, try you smallest kite first 2- Use shorter line to restrict the power zone
              Message 6 of 11 , Mar 26, 2004
                --- In ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com, "Sax, Steve, M.D." <ssax@t...> wrote:
                > hung: what are the "golden rules of very strong wind kitesurfing"?.
                >

                Some of them:

                1- Use kite size appropriated for the condition, when in doubt, try
                you smallest kite first
                2- Use shorter line to restrict the power zone and the time the kite
                stay in the power zone. For kitesurfing start from 15m and go up as
                appropriated.
                3- Launch and land unhooked or better yet, launch and land unhooked in
                shallow water
                4- Ride unhooked when you are near hard objects.
                5- Wear a helmet
                ...

                Hung.
              • jakob Thegerström
                Steve, I completely agree with you. One should avoid gusty winds. However where I live the winds are nearly always more or less gusty :( ... The situation I m
                Message 7 of 11 , Mar 29, 2004
                  Steve, I completely agree with you. One should avoid
                  gusty winds. However where I live the winds are nearly
                  always more or less gusty :( ... The situation I'm
                  avoiding is to go out overpower + gusty winds.
                  I guess that most new 2004 kites got better stability
                  and depower. The fact that the depower range increases
                  is probably both good and bad. With a hudge depower
                  you feel very secure when kiting in strong winds and
                  that could lead to mistakes / bad judgments.

                  /Jakob



                  --- "Kite Power (Sydney)" <sydney@...>
                  skrev:
                  ---------------------------------
                  I have 12 years expereince with power kiting, I have
                  travelled more than 15,00klms in my buggy, and I have
                  kitesurfed for 6 years, my experience is that in
                  extremely gusty winds, you should stay home.
                  Conditions like you describe are dangerous to kite in,
                  and all foils I have ever flown will misbehave in
                  winds like that, and inflatos will too.
                  The newer 2004 inflatos do handle a lot better than
                  pre 2002 kites, as do foils.
                  The number one reason for being lofted in these
                  conditions is keeping the kite overhead, keep the kite
                  below 11 o'clock, as we say keep it low and go!
                  Cya and
                  Goodwinds
                  Steve McCormack
                  www.kitepower.com.au

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: jakob Thegerström
                  To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 7:01 PM
                  Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Re: Severe accident at
                  Eckwarden


                  I have the feeling this sport is safer with foil
                  kites. The LEI kites all seam to have the same
                  problem
                  in gusty conditions: In the wind drop they fall back
                  right in the power zone. Even if you're an
                  experienced
                  kiter you can't do much about it. Then the wind
                  picks
                  up you got hundred of kilograms in your lines. This
                  has happened to me very often with my 2001 and 2002
                  LEI kites.
                  How does the 2004 LEI kites handle gusty winds? Are
                  these kites better than the older 2003-2002... LEI
                  kites?!
                  I recently tested the flysurfer voodoo foil kite in
                  very gusty conditions 4-24knots, the wind direction
                  changed by 20-45 degrees. The kite was unaffected by
                  these gusty winds, it never dropped and always
                  stayed
                  where I wanted it to stay in the wind window...
                  Maybe
                  every kiter should have a foil for gusty winds? My
                  experience is that LEI kites do not work in these
                  winds...

                  /J


                  --- kennywek@... skrev:
                  ---------------------------------
                  Jake,

                  Thanks for the warning. It helps people
                  appreciate
                  the danger in this
                  sport when that happens in a circumstance where you
                  wouldn't usually expect to
                  have a problem.


                  Billl Kenny


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been
                  removed]



                  If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
                  http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the
                  answers
                  to the most frequently asked questions.

                  To unsubscribe, please send an email to
                  ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                  To subscribe, please send an email to
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                  Yahoo!
                  Terms of Service.


                  Höstrusk och grå moln - köp en resa till solen på
                  Yahoo! Resor på adressen
                  http://se.docs.yahoo.com/travel/index.html


                  If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
                  http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the
                  answers
                  to the most frequently asked questions.

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                  __________

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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                  If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
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                  answers
                  to the most frequently asked questions.

                  To unsubscribe, please send an email to
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