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RE: [ksurfschool] Re: Severe accident at Eckwarden

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  • Sax, Steve, M.D.
    What a shame. I ve kiteboarded for two years, am 48, and recently switched my quiver from four kites (8, 10, 14, and 18) to 15 and 19 Fuels 2004. I can kite in
    Message 1 of 11 , Mar 25, 2004
    • 0 Attachment
      What a shame. I've kiteboarded for two years, am 48, and recently switched
      my quiver from four kites (8, 10, 14, and 18) to 15 and 19 Fuels 2004. I can
      kite in winds from 8-28; over this, its time for me to watch the pros and
      youngsters have fun or windsurf. This sport could explode with the right
      marketing and teaching.

      -----Original Message-----
      From: hungvuatnetcomdotca [mailto:hungvu2000@...]
      Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 7:01 PM
      To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [ksurfschool] Re: Severe accident at Eckwarden


      My condolences!

      This is a very sad accident as it can be easily avoided if the
      kitesurfer had followed at least one of the golden rules of very
      strong wind kitesurfing.

      I have personally kitesurfed in wind almost as strong and as unstable
      as this (when the average weight windsurfers use high 3's and low 4's
      sails - and Cory Roeseller also mentioned to me that he had been out
      in similar very strong wind at the Gorge) but with a much smaller kite
      (Wipika Classic 3.5), shorter lines 15m or 20m and didn't hook in
      until I was in open water.

      I can see someone twice my weight (250 lbs) use a 7m low performance
      LEI in similar wind but for an average 175 lbs (my assumption) to use
      a 12m or even a 8m is way too much.

      Hung.

      --- In ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Iossi" <flkitesurfer@h...>
      wrote:
      > A summary of the circumstances reported for this sad accident and
      commentary
      > have been uploaded to to the address listed below. My sincere
      condolences
      > go out to the family, friends of this man and German kiteboarders in
      > general.
      >
      > http://www.kiteforum.com/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=131
      <http://www.kiteforum.com/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=131>
      >
      > Other articles both current and from the past also appear at this
      address.
      > More content will be added to this location in the future.
      > _________________
      > FKA, Inc.
      > transcribed by: Rick Iossi
      >
      > _________________________________________________________________
      > All the action. All the drama. Get NCAA hoops coverage at MSN Sports by
      > ESPN. http://msn.espn.go.com/index.html?partnersite=espn
      <http://msn.espn.go.com/index.html?partnersite=espn>



      If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
      http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm
      <http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm> for the answers
      to the most frequently asked questions.

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    • George Sarris
      This is very sad in that the accident could have been avoided. Winds 33-50 kts are very extreme, even for experienced windsurfers. The gusts can knock a man
      Message 2 of 11 , Mar 25, 2004
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        This is very sad in that the accident could have been
        avoided. Winds 33-50 kts are very extreme, even for
        experienced windsurfers. The gusts can knock a man
        over standing on the beach let alone on a windsurfer
        or hooked up to a kite. Gusty conditions can be a
        formula for disaster if safety precautions are not
        followed.

        Consider my recent experience with not so severe
        conditions below.

        Two weeks ago I went out in conditions where the winds
        were averaging 13 kts with lulls to 9 kts and gusts to
        17 kts max. I checked the weather reports prior to
        going out. I had measured the wind with a digital
        wind meter for at least 5 minutes before deciding
        which kite to rig. I had an assist in launching my
        15.2m kite. The wind was side shore. Being mindful
        of safety I was way out in the water with the kite
        being launched about 3 meters from the shore out in
        the water. As it turned out I launched in a lull
        followed immediately by a gust that could have been
        well over 17 kts. The kite stalled in the lull and
        turned left across the power zone during the gust.
        Instead of bringing the kite to the zenith which I am
        sure would have lofted me, I let the kite go across
        the power zone low to the water to the other side of
        the wind window which was clear water. I was dragged
        at speed approx. 50 meters across the water until the
        kite reached the edge of the window when I was able to
        hook in and depower. It was definitely an adrenaline
        rush. Noteworthy is when I launched I was not hooked
        in. I could have dropped the bar easily but I was in
        no danger of hitting anything, maybe a slow fish. So
        I hung on. Needless to say it was a wake up call for
        me and thankfully I followed safety procedures(I
        always do). I wear a helmut, gloves, vest, booties,
        and carry a hook knife.

        Fly Safely. This is not called an extreme sport for
        nothing.

        Regards,
        Jake

        --- hungvuatnetcomdotca <hungvu2000@...> wrote:
        > My condolences!
        >
        > This is a very sad accident as it can be easily
        > avoided if the
        > kitesurfer had followed at least one of the golden
        > rules of very
        > strong wind kitesurfing.
        >
        > I have personally kitesurfed in wind almost as
        > strong and as unstable
        > as this (when the average weight windsurfers use
        > high 3's and low 4's
        > sails - and Cory Roeseller also mentioned to me that
        > he had been out
        > in similar very strong wind at the Gorge) but with a
        > much smaller kite
        > (Wipika Classic 3.5), shorter lines 15m or 20m and
        > didn't hook in
        > until I was in open water.
        >
        > I can see someone twice my weight (250 lbs) use a 7m
        > low performance
        > LEI in similar wind but for an average 175 lbs (my
        > assumption) to use
        > a 12m or even a 8m is way too much.
        >
        > Hung.
        >
        > --- In ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Iossi"
        > <flkitesurfer@h...>
        > wrote:
        > > A summary of the circumstances reported for this
        > sad accident and
        > commentary
        > > have been uploaded to to the address listed below.
        > My sincere
        > condolences
        > > go out to the family, friends of this man and
        > German kiteboarders in
        > > general.
        > >
        > > http://www.kiteforum.com/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=131
        > >
        > > Other articles both current and from the past
        > also appear at this
        > address.
        > > More content will be added to this location in the
        > future.
        > > _________________
        > > FKA, Inc.
        > > transcribed by: Rick Iossi
        > >
        > >
        >
        _________________________________________________________________
        > > All the action. All the drama. Get NCAA hoops
        > coverage at MSN Sports by
        > > ESPN.
        > http://msn.espn.go.com/index.html?partnersite=espn
        >
        >


        __________________________________
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      • kennywek@aol.com
        Jake, Thanks for the warning. It helps people appreciate the danger in this sport when that happens in a circumstance where you wouldn t usually expect to have
        Message 3 of 11 , Mar 25, 2004
        • 0 Attachment
          Jake,

          Thanks for the warning. It helps people appreciate the danger in this
          sport when that happens in a circumstance where you wouldn't usually expect to
          have a problem.


          Billl Kenny


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • jakob Thegerström
          I have the feeling this sport is safer with foil kites. The LEI kites all seam to have the same problem in gusty conditions: In the wind drop they fall back
          Message 4 of 11 , Mar 26, 2004
          • 0 Attachment
            I have the feeling this sport is safer with foil
            kites. The LEI kites all seam to have the same problem
            in gusty conditions: In the wind drop they fall back
            right in the power zone. Even if you're an experienced
            kiter you can't do much about it. Then the wind picks
            up you got hundred of kilograms in your lines. This
            has happened to me very often with my 2001 and 2002
            LEI kites.
            How does the 2004 LEI kites handle gusty winds? Are
            these kites better than the older 2003-2002... LEI
            kites?!
            I recently tested the flysurfer voodoo foil kite in
            very gusty conditions 4-24knots, the wind direction
            changed by 20-45 degrees. The kite was unaffected by
            these gusty winds, it never dropped and always stayed
            where I wanted it to stay in the wind window... Maybe
            every kiter should have a foil for gusty winds? My
            experience is that LEI kites do not work in these
            winds...

            /J


            --- kennywek@... skrev:
            ---------------------------------
            Jake,

            Thanks for the warning. It helps people appreciate
            the danger in this
            sport when that happens in a circumstance where you
            wouldn't usually expect to
            have a problem.


            Billl Kenny


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



            If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
            http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the
            answers
            to the most frequently asked questions.

            To unsubscribe, please send an email to
            ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
            To subscribe, please send an email to
            ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com




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          • Sax, Steve, M.D.
            hung: what are the golden rules of very strong wind kitesurfing ?. ... From: George Sarris [mailto:jakefarley2000@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004
            Message 5 of 11 , Mar 26, 2004
            • 0 Attachment
              hung: what are the "golden rules of very strong wind kitesurfing"?.


              -----Original Message-----
              From: George Sarris [mailto:jakefarley2000@...]
              Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:52 PM
              To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com; FKSA
              Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Re: Severe accident at Eckwarden


              This is very sad in that the accident could have been
              avoided. Winds 33-50 kts are very extreme, even for
              experienced windsurfers. The gusts can knock a man
              over standing on the beach let alone on a windsurfer
              or hooked up to a kite. Gusty conditions can be a
              formula for disaster if safety precautions are not
              followed.

              Consider my recent experience with not so severe
              conditions below.

              Two weeks ago I went out in conditions where the winds
              were averaging 13 kts with lulls to 9 kts and gusts to
              17 kts max. I checked the weather reports prior to
              going out. I had measured the wind with a digital
              wind meter for at least 5 minutes before deciding
              which kite to rig. I had an assist in launching my
              15.2m kite. The wind was side shore. Being mindful
              of safety I was way out in the water with the kite
              being launched about 3 meters from the shore out in
              the water. As it turned out I launched in a lull
              followed immediately by a gust that could have been
              well over 17 kts. The kite stalled in the lull and
              turned left across the power zone during the gust.
              Instead of bringing the kite to the zenith which I am
              sure would have lofted me, I let the kite go across
              the power zone low to the water to the other side of
              the wind window which was clear water. I was dragged
              at speed approx. 50 meters across the water until the
              kite reached the edge of the window when I was able to
              hook in and depower. It was definitely an adrenaline
              rush. Noteworthy is when I launched I was not hooked
              in. I could have dropped the bar easily but I was in
              no danger of hitting anything, maybe a slow fish. So
              I hung on. Needless to say it was a wake up call for
              me and thankfully I followed safety procedures(I
              always do). I wear a helmut, gloves, vest, booties,
              and carry a hook knife.

              Fly Safely. This is not called an extreme sport for
              nothing.

              Regards,
              Jake

              --- hungvuatnetcomdotca <hungvu2000@...> wrote:
              > My condolences!
              >
              > This is a very sad accident as it can be easily
              > avoided if the
              > kitesurfer had followed at least one of the golden
              > rules of very
              > strong wind kitesurfing.
              >
              > I have personally kitesurfed in wind almost as
              > strong and as unstable
              > as this (when the average weight windsurfers use
              > high 3's and low 4's
              > sails - and Cory Roeseller also mentioned to me that
              > he had been out
              > in similar very strong wind at the Gorge) but with a
              > much smaller kite
              > (Wipika Classic 3.5), shorter lines 15m or 20m and
              > didn't hook in
              > until I was in open water.
              >
              > I can see someone twice my weight (250 lbs) use a 7m
              > low performance
              > LEI in similar wind but for an average 175 lbs (my
              > assumption) to use
              > a 12m or even a 8m is way too much.
              >
              > Hung.
              >
              > --- In ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Iossi"
              > <flkitesurfer@h...>
              > wrote:
              > > A summary of the circumstances reported for this
              > sad accident and
              > commentary
              > > have been uploaded to to the address listed below.
              > My sincere
              > condolences
              > > go out to the family, friends of this man and
              > German kiteboarders in
              > > general.
              > >
              > > http://www.kiteforum.com/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=131
              <http://www.kiteforum.com/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=131>
              > >
              > > Other articles both current and from the past
              > also appear at this
              > address.
              > > More content will be added to this location in the
              > future.
              > > _________________
              > > FKA, Inc.
              > > transcribed by: Rick Iossi
              > >
              > >
              >
              _________________________________________________________________
              > > All the action. All the drama. Get NCAA hoops
              > coverage at MSN Sports by
              > > ESPN.
              > http://msn.espn.go.com/index.html?partnersite=espn
              <http://msn.espn.go.com/index.html?partnersite=espn>
              >
              >


              __________________________________
              Do you Yahoo!?
              Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
              http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html <http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html>


              If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
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              <http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm> for the answers
              to the most frequently asked questions.

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              -----------------------------------------
              ____________________________________________________________________________________
              ****CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE****
              This e-mail is the property of The Methodist Hospital and/or its relevant affiliates and may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review, use, distribution or disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient(or authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact the sender and delete all copies of the message. Thank you.

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Kite Power (Sydney)
              I have 12 years expereince with power kiting, I have travelled more than 15,00klms in my buggy, and I have kitesurfed for 6 years, my experience is that in
              Message 6 of 11 , Mar 26, 2004
              • 0 Attachment
                I have 12 years expereince with power kiting, I have travelled more than 15,00klms in my buggy, and I have kitesurfed for 6 years, my experience is that in extremely gusty winds, you should stay home.
                Conditions like you describe are dangerous to kite in, and all foils I have ever flown will misbehave in winds like that, and inflatos will too.
                The newer 2004 inflatos do handle a lot better than pre 2002 kites, as do foils.
                The number one reason for being lofted in these conditions is keeping the kite overhead, keep the kite below 11 o'clock, as we say keep it low and go!
                Cya and
                Goodwinds
                Steve McCormack
                www.kitepower.com.au

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: jakob Thegerström
                To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 7:01 PM
                Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Re: Severe accident at Eckwarden


                I have the feeling this sport is safer with foil
                kites. The LEI kites all seam to have the same problem
                in gusty conditions: In the wind drop they fall back
                right in the power zone. Even if you're an experienced
                kiter you can't do much about it. Then the wind picks
                up you got hundred of kilograms in your lines. This
                has happened to me very often with my 2001 and 2002
                LEI kites.
                How does the 2004 LEI kites handle gusty winds? Are
                these kites better than the older 2003-2002... LEI
                kites?!
                I recently tested the flysurfer voodoo foil kite in
                very gusty conditions 4-24knots, the wind direction
                changed by 20-45 degrees. The kite was unaffected by
                these gusty winds, it never dropped and always stayed
                where I wanted it to stay in the wind window... Maybe
                every kiter should have a foil for gusty winds? My
                experience is that LEI kites do not work in these
                winds...

                /J


                --- kennywek@... skrev:
                ---------------------------------
                Jake,

                Thanks for the warning. It helps people appreciate
                the danger in this
                sport when that happens in a circumstance where you
                wouldn't usually expect to
                have a problem.


                Billl Kenny


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
                http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the
                answers
                to the most frequently asked questions.

                To unsubscribe, please send an email to
                ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
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                If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • hungvuatnetcomdotca
                ... Some of them: 1- Use kite size appropriated for the condition, when in doubt, try you smallest kite first 2- Use shorter line to restrict the power zone
                Message 7 of 11 , Mar 26, 2004
                • 0 Attachment
                  --- In ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com, "Sax, Steve, M.D." <ssax@t...> wrote:
                  > hung: what are the "golden rules of very strong wind kitesurfing"?.
                  >

                  Some of them:

                  1- Use kite size appropriated for the condition, when in doubt, try
                  you smallest kite first
                  2- Use shorter line to restrict the power zone and the time the kite
                  stay in the power zone. For kitesurfing start from 15m and go up as
                  appropriated.
                  3- Launch and land unhooked or better yet, launch and land unhooked in
                  shallow water
                  4- Ride unhooked when you are near hard objects.
                  5- Wear a helmet
                  ...

                  Hung.
                • jakob Thegerström
                  Steve, I completely agree with you. One should avoid gusty winds. However where I live the winds are nearly always more or less gusty :( ... The situation I m
                  Message 8 of 11 , Mar 29, 2004
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Steve, I completely agree with you. One should avoid
                    gusty winds. However where I live the winds are nearly
                    always more or less gusty :( ... The situation I'm
                    avoiding is to go out overpower + gusty winds.
                    I guess that most new 2004 kites got better stability
                    and depower. The fact that the depower range increases
                    is probably both good and bad. With a hudge depower
                    you feel very secure when kiting in strong winds and
                    that could lead to mistakes / bad judgments.

                    /Jakob



                    --- "Kite Power (Sydney)" <sydney@...>
                    skrev:
                    ---------------------------------
                    I have 12 years expereince with power kiting, I have
                    travelled more than 15,00klms in my buggy, and I have
                    kitesurfed for 6 years, my experience is that in
                    extremely gusty winds, you should stay home.
                    Conditions like you describe are dangerous to kite in,
                    and all foils I have ever flown will misbehave in
                    winds like that, and inflatos will too.
                    The newer 2004 inflatos do handle a lot better than
                    pre 2002 kites, as do foils.
                    The number one reason for being lofted in these
                    conditions is keeping the kite overhead, keep the kite
                    below 11 o'clock, as we say keep it low and go!
                    Cya and
                    Goodwinds
                    Steve McCormack
                    www.kitepower.com.au

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: jakob Thegerström
                    To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 7:01 PM
                    Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Re: Severe accident at
                    Eckwarden


                    I have the feeling this sport is safer with foil
                    kites. The LEI kites all seam to have the same
                    problem
                    in gusty conditions: In the wind drop they fall back
                    right in the power zone. Even if you're an
                    experienced
                    kiter you can't do much about it. Then the wind
                    picks
                    up you got hundred of kilograms in your lines. This
                    has happened to me very often with my 2001 and 2002
                    LEI kites.
                    How does the 2004 LEI kites handle gusty winds? Are
                    these kites better than the older 2003-2002... LEI
                    kites?!
                    I recently tested the flysurfer voodoo foil kite in
                    very gusty conditions 4-24knots, the wind direction
                    changed by 20-45 degrees. The kite was unaffected by
                    these gusty winds, it never dropped and always
                    stayed
                    where I wanted it to stay in the wind window...
                    Maybe
                    every kiter should have a foil for gusty winds? My
                    experience is that LEI kites do not work in these
                    winds...

                    /J


                    --- kennywek@... skrev:
                    ---------------------------------
                    Jake,

                    Thanks for the warning. It helps people
                    appreciate
                    the danger in this
                    sport when that happens in a circumstance where you
                    wouldn't usually expect to
                    have a problem.


                    Billl Kenny


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been
                    removed]



                    If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
                    http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the
                    answers
                    to the most frequently asked questions.

                    To unsubscribe, please send an email to
                    ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                    To subscribe, please send an email to
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                    Yahoo!
                    Terms of Service.


                    Höstrusk och grå moln - köp en resa till solen på
                    Yahoo! Resor på adressen
                    http://se.docs.yahoo.com/travel/index.html


                    If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
                    http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the
                    answers
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