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Re: Severe accident at Eckwarden

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  • hungvuatnetcomdotca
    My condolences! This is a very sad accident as it can be easily avoided if the kitesurfer had followed at least one of the golden rules of very strong wind
    Message 1 of 11 , Mar 24, 2004
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      My condolences!

      This is a very sad accident as it can be easily avoided if the
      kitesurfer had followed at least one of the golden rules of very
      strong wind kitesurfing.

      I have personally kitesurfed in wind almost as strong and as unstable
      as this (when the average weight windsurfers use high 3's and low 4's
      sails - and Cory Roeseller also mentioned to me that he had been out
      in similar very strong wind at the Gorge) but with a much smaller kite
      (Wipika Classic 3.5), shorter lines 15m or 20m and didn't hook in
      until I was in open water.

      I can see someone twice my weight (250 lbs) use a 7m low performance
      LEI in similar wind but for an average 175 lbs (my assumption) to use
      a 12m or even a 8m is way too much.

      Hung.

      --- In ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Iossi" <flkitesurfer@h...>
      wrote:
      > A summary of the circumstances reported for this sad accident and
      commentary
      > have been uploaded to to the address listed below. My sincere
      condolences
      > go out to the family, friends of this man and German kiteboarders in
      > general.
      >
      > http://www.kiteforum.com/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=131
      >
      > Other articles both current and from the past also appear at this
      address.
      > More content will be added to this location in the future.
      > _________________
      > FKA, Inc.
      > transcribed by: Rick Iossi
      >
      > _________________________________________________________________
      > All the action. All the drama. Get NCAA hoops coverage at MSN Sports by
      > ESPN. http://msn.espn.go.com/index.html?partnersite=espn
    • Sax, Steve, M.D.
      What a shame. I ve kiteboarded for two years, am 48, and recently switched my quiver from four kites (8, 10, 14, and 18) to 15 and 19 Fuels 2004. I can kite in
      Message 2 of 11 , Mar 25, 2004
      • 0 Attachment
        What a shame. I've kiteboarded for two years, am 48, and recently switched
        my quiver from four kites (8, 10, 14, and 18) to 15 and 19 Fuels 2004. I can
        kite in winds from 8-28; over this, its time for me to watch the pros and
        youngsters have fun or windsurf. This sport could explode with the right
        marketing and teaching.

        -----Original Message-----
        From: hungvuatnetcomdotca [mailto:hungvu2000@...]
        Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 7:01 PM
        To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [ksurfschool] Re: Severe accident at Eckwarden


        My condolences!

        This is a very sad accident as it can be easily avoided if the
        kitesurfer had followed at least one of the golden rules of very
        strong wind kitesurfing.

        I have personally kitesurfed in wind almost as strong and as unstable
        as this (when the average weight windsurfers use high 3's and low 4's
        sails - and Cory Roeseller also mentioned to me that he had been out
        in similar very strong wind at the Gorge) but with a much smaller kite
        (Wipika Classic 3.5), shorter lines 15m or 20m and didn't hook in
        until I was in open water.

        I can see someone twice my weight (250 lbs) use a 7m low performance
        LEI in similar wind but for an average 175 lbs (my assumption) to use
        a 12m or even a 8m is way too much.

        Hung.

        --- In ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Iossi" <flkitesurfer@h...>
        wrote:
        > A summary of the circumstances reported for this sad accident and
        commentary
        > have been uploaded to to the address listed below. My sincere
        condolences
        > go out to the family, friends of this man and German kiteboarders in
        > general.
        >
        > http://www.kiteforum.com/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=131
        <http://www.kiteforum.com/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=131>
        >
        > Other articles both current and from the past also appear at this
        address.
        > More content will be added to this location in the future.
        > _________________
        > FKA, Inc.
        > transcribed by: Rick Iossi
        >
        > _________________________________________________________________
        > All the action. All the drama. Get NCAA hoops coverage at MSN Sports by
        > ESPN. http://msn.espn.go.com/index.html?partnersite=espn
        <http://msn.espn.go.com/index.html?partnersite=espn>



        If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
        http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm
        <http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm> for the answers
        to the most frequently asked questions.

        To unsubscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
        To subscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com




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        -----------------------------------------
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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • George Sarris
        This is very sad in that the accident could have been avoided. Winds 33-50 kts are very extreme, even for experienced windsurfers. The gusts can knock a man
        Message 3 of 11 , Mar 25, 2004
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          This is very sad in that the accident could have been
          avoided. Winds 33-50 kts are very extreme, even for
          experienced windsurfers. The gusts can knock a man
          over standing on the beach let alone on a windsurfer
          or hooked up to a kite. Gusty conditions can be a
          formula for disaster if safety precautions are not
          followed.

          Consider my recent experience with not so severe
          conditions below.

          Two weeks ago I went out in conditions where the winds
          were averaging 13 kts with lulls to 9 kts and gusts to
          17 kts max. I checked the weather reports prior to
          going out. I had measured the wind with a digital
          wind meter for at least 5 minutes before deciding
          which kite to rig. I had an assist in launching my
          15.2m kite. The wind was side shore. Being mindful
          of safety I was way out in the water with the kite
          being launched about 3 meters from the shore out in
          the water. As it turned out I launched in a lull
          followed immediately by a gust that could have been
          well over 17 kts. The kite stalled in the lull and
          turned left across the power zone during the gust.
          Instead of bringing the kite to the zenith which I am
          sure would have lofted me, I let the kite go across
          the power zone low to the water to the other side of
          the wind window which was clear water. I was dragged
          at speed approx. 50 meters across the water until the
          kite reached the edge of the window when I was able to
          hook in and depower. It was definitely an adrenaline
          rush. Noteworthy is when I launched I was not hooked
          in. I could have dropped the bar easily but I was in
          no danger of hitting anything, maybe a slow fish. So
          I hung on. Needless to say it was a wake up call for
          me and thankfully I followed safety procedures(I
          always do). I wear a helmut, gloves, vest, booties,
          and carry a hook knife.

          Fly Safely. This is not called an extreme sport for
          nothing.

          Regards,
          Jake

          --- hungvuatnetcomdotca <hungvu2000@...> wrote:
          > My condolences!
          >
          > This is a very sad accident as it can be easily
          > avoided if the
          > kitesurfer had followed at least one of the golden
          > rules of very
          > strong wind kitesurfing.
          >
          > I have personally kitesurfed in wind almost as
          > strong and as unstable
          > as this (when the average weight windsurfers use
          > high 3's and low 4's
          > sails - and Cory Roeseller also mentioned to me that
          > he had been out
          > in similar very strong wind at the Gorge) but with a
          > much smaller kite
          > (Wipika Classic 3.5), shorter lines 15m or 20m and
          > didn't hook in
          > until I was in open water.
          >
          > I can see someone twice my weight (250 lbs) use a 7m
          > low performance
          > LEI in similar wind but for an average 175 lbs (my
          > assumption) to use
          > a 12m or even a 8m is way too much.
          >
          > Hung.
          >
          > --- In ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Iossi"
          > <flkitesurfer@h...>
          > wrote:
          > > A summary of the circumstances reported for this
          > sad accident and
          > commentary
          > > have been uploaded to to the address listed below.
          > My sincere
          > condolences
          > > go out to the family, friends of this man and
          > German kiteboarders in
          > > general.
          > >
          > > http://www.kiteforum.com/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=131
          > >
          > > Other articles both current and from the past
          > also appear at this
          > address.
          > > More content will be added to this location in the
          > future.
          > > _________________
          > > FKA, Inc.
          > > transcribed by: Rick Iossi
          > >
          > >
          >
          _________________________________________________________________
          > > All the action. All the drama. Get NCAA hoops
          > coverage at MSN Sports by
          > > ESPN.
          > http://msn.espn.go.com/index.html?partnersite=espn
          >
          >


          __________________________________
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          Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
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        • kennywek@aol.com
          Jake, Thanks for the warning. It helps people appreciate the danger in this sport when that happens in a circumstance where you wouldn t usually expect to have
          Message 4 of 11 , Mar 25, 2004
          • 0 Attachment
            Jake,

            Thanks for the warning. It helps people appreciate the danger in this
            sport when that happens in a circumstance where you wouldn't usually expect to
            have a problem.


            Billl Kenny


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • jakob Thegerström
            I have the feeling this sport is safer with foil kites. The LEI kites all seam to have the same problem in gusty conditions: In the wind drop they fall back
            Message 5 of 11 , Mar 26, 2004
            • 0 Attachment
              I have the feeling this sport is safer with foil
              kites. The LEI kites all seam to have the same problem
              in gusty conditions: In the wind drop they fall back
              right in the power zone. Even if you're an experienced
              kiter you can't do much about it. Then the wind picks
              up you got hundred of kilograms in your lines. This
              has happened to me very often with my 2001 and 2002
              LEI kites.
              How does the 2004 LEI kites handle gusty winds? Are
              these kites better than the older 2003-2002... LEI
              kites?!
              I recently tested the flysurfer voodoo foil kite in
              very gusty conditions 4-24knots, the wind direction
              changed by 20-45 degrees. The kite was unaffected by
              these gusty winds, it never dropped and always stayed
              where I wanted it to stay in the wind window... Maybe
              every kiter should have a foil for gusty winds? My
              experience is that LEI kites do not work in these
              winds...

              /J


              --- kennywek@... skrev:
              ---------------------------------
              Jake,

              Thanks for the warning. It helps people appreciate
              the danger in this
              sport when that happens in a circumstance where you
              wouldn't usually expect to
              have a problem.


              Billl Kenny


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



              If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
              http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the
              answers
              to the most frequently asked questions.

              To unsubscribe, please send an email to
              ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
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            • Sax, Steve, M.D.
              hung: what are the golden rules of very strong wind kitesurfing ?. ... From: George Sarris [mailto:jakefarley2000@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004
              Message 6 of 11 , Mar 26, 2004
              • 0 Attachment
                hung: what are the "golden rules of very strong wind kitesurfing"?.


                -----Original Message-----
                From: George Sarris [mailto:jakefarley2000@...]
                Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:52 PM
                To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com; FKSA
                Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Re: Severe accident at Eckwarden


                This is very sad in that the accident could have been
                avoided. Winds 33-50 kts are very extreme, even for
                experienced windsurfers. The gusts can knock a man
                over standing on the beach let alone on a windsurfer
                or hooked up to a kite. Gusty conditions can be a
                formula for disaster if safety precautions are not
                followed.

                Consider my recent experience with not so severe
                conditions below.

                Two weeks ago I went out in conditions where the winds
                were averaging 13 kts with lulls to 9 kts and gusts to
                17 kts max. I checked the weather reports prior to
                going out. I had measured the wind with a digital
                wind meter for at least 5 minutes before deciding
                which kite to rig. I had an assist in launching my
                15.2m kite. The wind was side shore. Being mindful
                of safety I was way out in the water with the kite
                being launched about 3 meters from the shore out in
                the water. As it turned out I launched in a lull
                followed immediately by a gust that could have been
                well over 17 kts. The kite stalled in the lull and
                turned left across the power zone during the gust.
                Instead of bringing the kite to the zenith which I am
                sure would have lofted me, I let the kite go across
                the power zone low to the water to the other side of
                the wind window which was clear water. I was dragged
                at speed approx. 50 meters across the water until the
                kite reached the edge of the window when I was able to
                hook in and depower. It was definitely an adrenaline
                rush. Noteworthy is when I launched I was not hooked
                in. I could have dropped the bar easily but I was in
                no danger of hitting anything, maybe a slow fish. So
                I hung on. Needless to say it was a wake up call for
                me and thankfully I followed safety procedures(I
                always do). I wear a helmut, gloves, vest, booties,
                and carry a hook knife.

                Fly Safely. This is not called an extreme sport for
                nothing.

                Regards,
                Jake

                --- hungvuatnetcomdotca <hungvu2000@...> wrote:
                > My condolences!
                >
                > This is a very sad accident as it can be easily
                > avoided if the
                > kitesurfer had followed at least one of the golden
                > rules of very
                > strong wind kitesurfing.
                >
                > I have personally kitesurfed in wind almost as
                > strong and as unstable
                > as this (when the average weight windsurfers use
                > high 3's and low 4's
                > sails - and Cory Roeseller also mentioned to me that
                > he had been out
                > in similar very strong wind at the Gorge) but with a
                > much smaller kite
                > (Wipika Classic 3.5), shorter lines 15m or 20m and
                > didn't hook in
                > until I was in open water.
                >
                > I can see someone twice my weight (250 lbs) use a 7m
                > low performance
                > LEI in similar wind but for an average 175 lbs (my
                > assumption) to use
                > a 12m or even a 8m is way too much.
                >
                > Hung.
                >
                > --- In ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Iossi"
                > <flkitesurfer@h...>
                > wrote:
                > > A summary of the circumstances reported for this
                > sad accident and
                > commentary
                > > have been uploaded to to the address listed below.
                > My sincere
                > condolences
                > > go out to the family, friends of this man and
                > German kiteboarders in
                > > general.
                > >
                > > http://www.kiteforum.com/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=131
                <http://www.kiteforum.com/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=131>
                > >
                > > Other articles both current and from the past
                > also appear at this
                > address.
                > > More content will be added to this location in the
                > future.
                > > _________________
                > > FKA, Inc.
                > > transcribed by: Rick Iossi
                > >
                > >
                >
                _________________________________________________________________
                > > All the action. All the drama. Get NCAA hoops
                > coverage at MSN Sports by
                > > ESPN.
                > http://msn.espn.go.com/index.html?partnersite=espn
                <http://msn.espn.go.com/index.html?partnersite=espn>
                >
                >


                __________________________________
                Do you Yahoo!?
                Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
                http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html <http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html>


                If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
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                <http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm> for the answers
                to the most frequently asked questions.

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                -----------------------------------------
                ____________________________________________________________________________________
                ****CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE****
                This e-mail is the property of The Methodist Hospital and/or its relevant affiliates and may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review, use, distribution or disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient(or authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact the sender and delete all copies of the message. Thank you.

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Kite Power (Sydney)
                I have 12 years expereince with power kiting, I have travelled more than 15,00klms in my buggy, and I have kitesurfed for 6 years, my experience is that in
                Message 7 of 11 , Mar 26, 2004
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                  I have 12 years expereince with power kiting, I have travelled more than 15,00klms in my buggy, and I have kitesurfed for 6 years, my experience is that in extremely gusty winds, you should stay home.
                  Conditions like you describe are dangerous to kite in, and all foils I have ever flown will misbehave in winds like that, and inflatos will too.
                  The newer 2004 inflatos do handle a lot better than pre 2002 kites, as do foils.
                  The number one reason for being lofted in these conditions is keeping the kite overhead, keep the kite below 11 o'clock, as we say keep it low and go!
                  Cya and
                  Goodwinds
                  Steve McCormack
                  www.kitepower.com.au

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: jakob Thegerström
                  To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 7:01 PM
                  Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Re: Severe accident at Eckwarden


                  I have the feeling this sport is safer with foil
                  kites. The LEI kites all seam to have the same problem
                  in gusty conditions: In the wind drop they fall back
                  right in the power zone. Even if you're an experienced
                  kiter you can't do much about it. Then the wind picks
                  up you got hundred of kilograms in your lines. This
                  has happened to me very often with my 2001 and 2002
                  LEI kites.
                  How does the 2004 LEI kites handle gusty winds? Are
                  these kites better than the older 2003-2002... LEI
                  kites?!
                  I recently tested the flysurfer voodoo foil kite in
                  very gusty conditions 4-24knots, the wind direction
                  changed by 20-45 degrees. The kite was unaffected by
                  these gusty winds, it never dropped and always stayed
                  where I wanted it to stay in the wind window... Maybe
                  every kiter should have a foil for gusty winds? My
                  experience is that LEI kites do not work in these
                  winds...

                  /J


                  --- kennywek@... skrev:
                  ---------------------------------
                  Jake,

                  Thanks for the warning. It helps people appreciate
                  the danger in this
                  sport when that happens in a circumstance where you
                  wouldn't usually expect to
                  have a problem.


                  Billl Kenny


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                  If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
                  http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the
                  answers
                  to the most frequently asked questions.

                  To unsubscribe, please send an email to
                  ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
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                  Höstrusk och grå moln - köp en resa till solen på Yahoo! Resor på adressen http://se.docs.yahoo.com/travel/index.html


                  If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
                  http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
                  to the most frequently asked questions.

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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • hungvuatnetcomdotca
                  ... Some of them: 1- Use kite size appropriated for the condition, when in doubt, try you smallest kite first 2- Use shorter line to restrict the power zone
                  Message 8 of 11 , Mar 26, 2004
                  • 0 Attachment
                    --- In ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com, "Sax, Steve, M.D." <ssax@t...> wrote:
                    > hung: what are the "golden rules of very strong wind kitesurfing"?.
                    >

                    Some of them:

                    1- Use kite size appropriated for the condition, when in doubt, try
                    you smallest kite first
                    2- Use shorter line to restrict the power zone and the time the kite
                    stay in the power zone. For kitesurfing start from 15m and go up as
                    appropriated.
                    3- Launch and land unhooked or better yet, launch and land unhooked in
                    shallow water
                    4- Ride unhooked when you are near hard objects.
                    5- Wear a helmet
                    ...

                    Hung.
                  • jakob Thegerström
                    Steve, I completely agree with you. One should avoid gusty winds. However where I live the winds are nearly always more or less gusty :( ... The situation I m
                    Message 9 of 11 , Mar 29, 2004
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Steve, I completely agree with you. One should avoid
                      gusty winds. However where I live the winds are nearly
                      always more or less gusty :( ... The situation I'm
                      avoiding is to go out overpower + gusty winds.
                      I guess that most new 2004 kites got better stability
                      and depower. The fact that the depower range increases
                      is probably both good and bad. With a hudge depower
                      you feel very secure when kiting in strong winds and
                      that could lead to mistakes / bad judgments.

                      /Jakob



                      --- "Kite Power (Sydney)" <sydney@...>
                      skrev:
                      ---------------------------------
                      I have 12 years expereince with power kiting, I have
                      travelled more than 15,00klms in my buggy, and I have
                      kitesurfed for 6 years, my experience is that in
                      extremely gusty winds, you should stay home.
                      Conditions like you describe are dangerous to kite in,
                      and all foils I have ever flown will misbehave in
                      winds like that, and inflatos will too.
                      The newer 2004 inflatos do handle a lot better than
                      pre 2002 kites, as do foils.
                      The number one reason for being lofted in these
                      conditions is keeping the kite overhead, keep the kite
                      below 11 o'clock, as we say keep it low and go!
                      Cya and
                      Goodwinds
                      Steve McCormack
                      www.kitepower.com.au

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: jakob Thegerström
                      To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 7:01 PM
                      Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Re: Severe accident at
                      Eckwarden


                      I have the feeling this sport is safer with foil
                      kites. The LEI kites all seam to have the same
                      problem
                      in gusty conditions: In the wind drop they fall back
                      right in the power zone. Even if you're an
                      experienced
                      kiter you can't do much about it. Then the wind
                      picks
                      up you got hundred of kilograms in your lines. This
                      has happened to me very often with my 2001 and 2002
                      LEI kites.
                      How does the 2004 LEI kites handle gusty winds? Are
                      these kites better than the older 2003-2002... LEI
                      kites?!
                      I recently tested the flysurfer voodoo foil kite in
                      very gusty conditions 4-24knots, the wind direction
                      changed by 20-45 degrees. The kite was unaffected by
                      these gusty winds, it never dropped and always
                      stayed
                      where I wanted it to stay in the wind window...
                      Maybe
                      every kiter should have a foil for gusty winds? My
                      experience is that LEI kites do not work in these
                      winds...

                      /J


                      --- kennywek@... skrev:
                      ---------------------------------
                      Jake,

                      Thanks for the warning. It helps people
                      appreciate
                      the danger in this
                      sport when that happens in a circumstance where you
                      wouldn't usually expect to
                      have a problem.


                      Billl Kenny


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