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RE: [ksurfschool] Re: Hung - you, or anyone here, tried 10M lines ?

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  • Sax, Steve, M.D.
    Isn t it also potentially dangerous; eg, if you use shorter lines and a larger kite, couldn t you be at increased risk for inadvertant lofting? ... From:
    Message 1 of 6 , Dec 19, 2003
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      Isn't it also potentially dangerous; eg, if you use shorter lines and a
      larger kite, couldn't you be at increased risk for inadvertant lofting?

      -----Original Message-----
      From: hungvu2000@... [mailto:hungvu2000@...]
      Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 11:49 AM
      To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [ksurfschool] Re: Hung - you, or anyone here, tried 10M lines?


      On snow, you can go as short as 0 m line (high speed run, no jumping)

      For sailing on water only, you can go as short as 10 m

      For jumping you can go as short as 15 m (shorter than that it is very
      difficult to jump).

      4 line depowering works well with shorter lines (probably even better
      as the depowering is faster). The angle is better as the kite has
      less drag.

      On the other hands, following are the problem with shorter lines:

      - Harder to jump as there is less extra power from the kite
      - Harder to get on the board from water
      - Require more constant wind.

      One way to handle these problems is going out with bigger kite but
      shorter lines for the same condition.

      P.S., One can probably jump with 10 m lines using oversize kite and
      the pumping technique but I haven't tried it out extensively yet.

      P.P.S., The reason why 30m become the standard line length due to its
      ease of jumping and very good performance in most cases.

      Hung.

      --- In ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com, wetstuff@f... wrote:
      > There's that guy in Hawaii who comes off as a Prophet promoting
      short lines...and I've
      > gone the other way stretchng out to 30+M looking for an advantage -
      without the
      > skills or sensitvity to judge the results. But, real short lines
      seem interesting..
      >
      > I can imagine a quick motion to the front of the window, but would
      the angle be as
      > good?
      >
      > Would a 4-line depower as well?
      >
      > Would this be better for a 2-line blimp?
      >
      > I'm going to fab a set, but it's 'tween-season here - blustry, cold
      water but no snow.
      >
      >
      > Jim



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    • hungvuatnetcomdotca
      I am not sure what is more dangerous: oversize kite with shorter lines or normal size kite with normal lines. I always prefer to use shorter lines in very
      Message 2 of 6 , Dec 19, 2003
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        I am not sure what is more dangerous: oversize kite with shorter lines
        or normal size kite with normal lines.

        I always prefer to use shorter lines in very strong wind (especially
        when going faster than 80 km/hr in the winter) so I guess shorter
        lines are safer.

        Hung.

        --- In ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com, "Sax, Steve, M.D." <ssax@t...> wrote:
        > Isn't it also potentially dangerous; eg, if you use shorter lines and a
        > larger kite, couldn't you be at increased risk for inadvertant lofting?
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: hungvu2000@r... [mailto:hungvu2000@r...]
        > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 11:49 AM
        > To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [ksurfschool] Re: Hung - you, or anyone here, tried 10M lines?
        >
        >
        > On snow, you can go as short as 0 m line (high speed run, no jumping)
        >
        > For sailing on water only, you can go as short as 10 m
        >
        > For jumping you can go as short as 15 m (shorter than that it is very
        > difficult to jump).
        >
        > 4 line depowering works well with shorter lines (probably even better
        > as the depowering is faster). The angle is better as the kite has
        > less drag.
        >
        > On the other hands, following are the problem with shorter lines:
        >
        > - Harder to jump as there is less extra power from the kite
        > - Harder to get on the board from water
        > - Require more constant wind.
        >
        > One way to handle these problems is going out with bigger kite but
        > shorter lines for the same condition.
        >
        > P.S., One can probably jump with 10 m lines using oversize kite and
        > the pumping technique but I haven't tried it out extensively yet.
        >
        > P.P.S., The reason why 30m become the standard line length due to its
        > ease of jumping and very good performance in most cases.
        >
        > Hung.
        >
        > --- In ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com, wetstuff@f... wrote:
        > > There's that guy in Hawaii who comes off as a Prophet promoting
        > short lines...and I've
        > > gone the other way stretchng out to 30+M looking for an advantage -
        > without the
        > > skills or sensitvity to judge the results. But, real short lines
        > seem interesting..
        > >
        > > I can imagine a quick motion to the front of the window, but would
        > the angle be as
        > > good?
        > >
        > > Would a 4-line depower as well?
        > >
        > > Would this be better for a 2-line blimp?
        > >
        > > I'm going to fab a set, but it's 'tween-season here - blustry, cold
        > water but no snow.
        > >
        > >
        > > Jim
        >
        >
        >
        > If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
        > http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm
        > <http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm> for the answers
        > to the most frequently asked questions.
        >
        > To unsubscribe, please send an email to
        ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
        > To subscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com
        >
        >
        >
        >
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        > ault?mqso=60178338&partid=4116732> click here
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        ____________________________________________________________________________________
        > ****CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE****
        > This e-mail is the property of The Methodist Hospital and/or its
        relevant affiliates and may contain confidential and privileged
        material for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review,
        use, distribution or disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If
        you are not the intended recipient(or authorized to receive for the
        recipient), please contact the sender and delete all copies of the
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        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • ex_cpe
        ... ......Sax: Explain why you d think this would be so? In my limited memory, lofting almost always seems to be associated with gusty conditions... Opinion;
        Message 3 of 6 , Dec 20, 2003
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          --- In ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com, "Sax, Steve, M.D." <ssax@t...> wrote:
          > Isn't it also potentially dangerous; eg, if you use shorter lines and a
          > larger kite, couldn't you be at increased risk for inadvertant lofting?
          >

          ......Sax: Explain why you'd think this would be so?

          In my limited memory, lofting almost always seems to be associated with gusty
          conditions...

          Opinion; You have to be either foolishly fearless or clueless (no offense to the memory
          of deceased) to launch a nominal kite for grade 1 conditions when there is 2+ or 3X
          gusting, actual or forcast. I like ole' Fo's concepts of this kite play being inherently
          dangerous - some among us will die.

          'Hope it's not your time - anytine soon.


          Jim
        • Kite Power (Sydney)
          Living is inherently dangerous, and dying is natural and inevitable. Lofting can be avoided, common sense would and does prevent a lot of near/or death
          Message 4 of 6 , Dec 20, 2003
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            Living is inherently dangerous, and dying is natural and inevitable.
            Lofting can be avoided, common sense would and does prevent a lot of near/or death experiences.
            Short lines would only marginally decrease the risk of a fatal lofting, but long lines will definately contribute to a higher longer and faster lofting.
            Do not put a large kite over your head at the Zenith when on land or upwind of anything you could potentially be lofted into/onto. Keep your kite low, is the way to go!

            People have been playing with large powerful kites for a couple of decades, lofting is not new, nor is the concept of power kiting being dangerous. (no offence)

            Cya and
            Goodwinds
            Steve McCormack
            www.kitepower.com.au



            ----- Original Message -----
            From: ex_cpe
            To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2003 2:08 AM
            Subject: [ksurfschool] Re: Hung - you, or anyone here, tried 10M lines ?


            --- In ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com, "Sax, Steve, M.D." <ssax@t...> wrote:
            > Isn't it also potentially dangerous; eg, if you use shorter lines and a
            > larger kite, couldn't you be at increased risk for inadvertant lofting?
            >

            ......Sax: Explain why you'd think this would be so?

            In my limited memory, lofting almost always seems to be associated with gusty
            conditions...

            Opinion; You have to be either foolishly fearless or clueless (no offense to the memory
            of deceased) to launch a nominal kite for grade 1 conditions when there is 2+ or 3X
            gusting, actual or forcast. I like ole' Fo's concepts of this kite play being inherently
            dangerous - some among us will die.

            'Hope it's not your time - anytine soon.


            Jim




            If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
            http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
            to the most frequently asked questions.

            To unsubscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
            To subscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com




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          • ex_cpe
            ... anything you could potentially be lofted into/onto. Keep your kite low, is the way to go! ... .......seems as obvious as not crossing an autoban on a
            Message 5 of 6 , Dec 20, 2003
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              > Do not put a large kite over your head at the Zenith when on land or upwind of
              anything you could potentially be lofted into/onto. Keep your kite low, is the way to
              go!
              >

              .......seems as obvious as not crossing an autoban on a unicycle with your eyes
              closed?!

              Yet, Zenith was a 'place of rest' only a couple of years ago...'auto-zenith' was a big
              selling feature of ARC's over blimps...and zenith is where you see lots of kites in really
              crowded kite venues. Perhaps if along with terms like Power Zone we coin Death Zone
              to develop a verbal, intuitive warning.

              Steve: I hope you guys dn-udr are enjoying the warm weather, and you prosper in
              2004. Cheers.


              Jim
            • Kite Power (Sydney)
              Hi Jim Zenith does not really imply anything negative, and provided it is used and explained truthfully and honestly, there should be no hassle with using that
              Message 6 of 6 , Dec 20, 2003
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                Hi Jim
                Zenith does not really imply anything negative, and provided it is used and explained truthfully and honestly, there should be no hassle with using that term, IMO.
                I prefer the term DEATH ZONE, because it gets attention! :-) People in the trade seem to have an allergy to that term though, but I think their fears are unfounded. The model of a wind window in my shop is labelled the DEATH ZONE, and I don't intend to change it!

                IN my experience it is better to be honest with people right from their first enquiry, too many traders are sacrificing their integrity, for $$$ right now IMO!
                There are too many brands, way too many people trying to sell those brands, too much hype, too much BS, too much big ego and attention seeking too.
                It will sort itself out over the next couple of years, lets hope no too many more people die from preventable causes in the meantime.

                Summer finally hit about 2 weeks ago, winds have been good for some time though. Water is a balmy 22c and the temp is rarely below 20 either! Thanks for thje wishes, I hope you have a great christmas and smooth windy new year too! :-)
                Cya and
                Goodwinds
                Steve McCormack
                www.kitepower.com.au


                ----- Original Message -----
                From: ex_cpe
                To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2003 10:14 AM
                Subject: [ksurfschool] Re: Hung - you, or anyone here, tried 10M lines ?



                > Do not put a large kite over your head at the Zenith when on land or upwind of
                anything you could potentially be lofted into/onto. Keep your kite low, is the way to
                go!
                >

                .......seems as obvious as not crossing an autoban on a unicycle with your eyes
                closed?!

                Yet, Zenith was a 'place of rest' only a couple of years ago...'auto-zenith' was a big
                selling feature of ARC's over blimps...and zenith is where you see lots of kites in really
                crowded kite venues. Perhaps if along with terms like Power Zone we coin Death Zone
                to develop a verbal, intuitive warning.

                Steve: I hope you guys dn-udr are enjoying the warm weather, and you prosper in
                2004. Cheers.


                Jim



                If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
                http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
                to the most frequently asked questions.

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