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WARNING TO SNAP SHACKLE USERS!!!

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  • Rick Iossi
    There has been another serious accident. Reportedly the failure of an improperly rigged snap shackle to release was a key factor in the accident. If a snap
    Message 1 of 15 , Jan 22, 2003
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      There has been another serious accident. Reportedly the failure of an
      improperly rigged snap shackle to release was a key factor in the accident.
      If a snap shackle is used in lieu of a Quick Release, it must be properly
      rigged, maintained and tested to improve the odds that it will release when
      needed. Accidents will happen in kiteboarding it would be good to try to
      reduce the quantity of avoidable ones. More about this at:

      http://www.kiteforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=5202&forum=1&0

      FKA, Inc.

      transcribed by:
      Rick Iossi

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    • Christopher Gaskins
      Rick, I really, really appreciate the accident reports. However, I am frustrated by the fact that the report is distributed in Acrobat PDF format with
      Message 2 of 15 , Jan 22, 2003
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        Rick,

        I really, really appreciate the accident reports. However, I am frustrated
        by the fact that the report is distributed in Acrobat PDF format with
        *printing restrictions*. I want to read the entire 50-60+ page report, but
        not on my screen, so the service is working against itself in terms of
        maximizing the benefit of the report to the community. Is there anything
        that can be done about this? Why is it copyrighted material with
        restriction on the reproduction? I care deeply about this sport and value
        tremendously the effort that is put into the accident report. I just want
        to see the benefit of the report maximized...

        Chris



        >There has been another serious accident. Reportedly the failure of an
        >improperly rigged snap shackle to release was a key factor in the accident.
        >If a snap shackle is used in lieu of a Quick Release, it must be properly
        >rigged, maintained and tested to improve the odds that it will release when
        >needed. Accidents will happen in kiteboarding it would be good to try to
        >reduce the quantity of avoidable ones. More about this at:
        >
        ><http://www.kiteforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=5202&forum=1&0>http://www.kiteforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=5202&forum=1&0
        >
        >FKA, Inc.
        >
        >transcribed by:
        >Rick Iossi



        Christopher Gaskins, MAI
        Meridian Associates, Inc.
        P.O. Box 21177
        Salem, Oregon 97307-1177

        e-mail: gaskins@...

        (503) 463-5000 (phone)
        (503) 463-5200 (fax)

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • flkitesurfer <flkitesurfer@hotmail.com>
        Hello Chris, All the legal text, flash pages, disclaimers, pdf files, copy/print restrictions and copyright are a pain, aren t they? Things aren t much easier
        Message 3 of 15 , Jan 23, 2003
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          Hello Chris,

          All the legal text, flash pages, disclaimers, pdf files, copy/print
          restrictions and copyright are a pain, aren't they? Things aren't
          much easier from my perspective either.

          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kitesurf/files/KSR%20-%20KITEBOARDING%
          20SAFETY%20REFERENCES/

          All these measures aren't accidental and were brought about with a
          purpose in mind. A sad, unfortunate one but a perceived need all the
          same. Quite a while back, the Accident Database, ancestor of the
          KSI generated concerns and calls for getting rid of it, given fears
          that the information might be used against the sport. I had real
          concerns about this as too many people didn't know or perhaps
          appreciate the hazards that dwell with the strong positive aspects
          of this sport. Hazard awareness has improved since that time but we
          still have a way to go. Thanks to Hung for creating and maintaining
          this excellent site to work towards spreading greater awareness and
          knowledge about kiteboarding. The suggestions were taken to heart, a
          lot of changes made and the KSI was brought about.

          The KSI is stated to be a collection of largely unconfirmed events
          that might be best to be considered to be plausible scenarios as
          opposed to actual events. Makes sense to me. The KSI has terms of
          use, they interfere with the distribution of the information to
          kiteboarders but no where as great as taking the information out of
          circulation would. The KSI is to be used by kiteboarders for
          improving safety. Hence the access restrictions. It is a pain but
          as a non-attorney it is the best that I could come up with.
          Suggestions are welcome in this. I apologize for getting behind in
          the KSI updates. There has been so much going on with new
          initiatives such as the Ten Ideas campaign** and series of accidents
          and new actions in response to them, that I have fallen behind
          That will be fixed quite soon.

          **http://www.kiteforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=3881&forum=3&4

          FKA, Inc.

          transcribed by:
          Rick Iossi

          --- In ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com, Christopher Gaskins
          <gaskins@m...> wrote:
          > Rick,
          >
          > I really, really appreciate the accident reports. However, I am
          frustrated
          > by the fact that the report is distributed in Acrobat PDF format
          with
          > *printing restrictions*. I want to read the entire 50-60+ page
          report, but
          > not on my screen, so the service is working against itself in
          terms of
          > maximizing the benefit of the report to the community. Is there
          anything
          > that can be done about this? Why is it copyrighted material with
          > restriction on the reproduction? I care deeply about this sport
          and value
          > tremendously the effort that is put into the accident report. I
          just want
          > to see the benefit of the report maximized...
          >
          > Chris
          >
          >
          >
          > >There has been another serious accident. Reportedly the failure
          of an
          > >improperly rigged snap shackle to release was a key factor in the
          accident.
          > >If a snap shackle is used in lieu of a Quick Release, it must be
          properly
          > >rigged, maintained and tested to improve the odds that it will
          release when
          > >needed. Accidents will happen in kiteboarding it would be good to
          try to
          > >reduce the quantity of avoidable ones. More about this at:
          > >
          > ><http://www.kiteforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?
          topic=5202&forum=1&0>http://www.kiteforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?
          topic=5202&forum=1&0
          > >
          > >FKA, Inc.
          > >
          > >transcribed by:
          > >Rick Iossi
          >
          >
          >
          > Christopher Gaskins, MAI
          > Meridian Associates, Inc.
          > P.O. Box 21177
          > Salem, Oregon 97307-1177
          >
          > e-mail: gaskins@m...
          >
          > (503) 463-5000 (phone)
          > (503) 463-5200 (fax)
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • George Sarris
          Where can one purchase the proper quick release? I currently use a snap shackle with a ring but after what I read, I want to switch to something more
          Message 4 of 15 , Jan 23, 2003
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            Where can one purchase the proper quick release? I
            currently use a snap shackle with a ring but after
            what I read, I want to switch to something more
            reliable.

            George
            --- Christopher Gaskins <gaskins@...>
            wrote:
            > Rick,
            >
            > I really, really appreciate the accident reports.
            > However, I am frustrated
            > by the fact that the report is distributed in
            > Acrobat PDF format with
            > *printing restrictions*. I want to read the entire
            > 50-60+ page report, but
            > not on my screen, so the service is working against
            > itself in terms of
            > maximizing the benefit of the report to the
            > community. Is there anything
            > that can be done about this? Why is it copyrighted
            > material with
            > restriction on the reproduction? I care deeply about
            > this sport and value
            > tremendously the effort that is put into the
            > accident report. I just want
            > to see the benefit of the report maximized...
            >
            > Chris
            >
            >
            >
            > >There has been another serious accident.
            > Reportedly the failure of an
            > >improperly rigged snap shackle to release was a key
            > factor in the accident.
            > >If a snap shackle is used in lieu of a Quick
            > Release, it must be properly
            > >rigged, maintained and tested to improve the odds
            > that it will release when
            > >needed. Accidents will happen in kiteboarding it
            > would be good to try to
            > >reduce the quantity of avoidable ones. More about
            > this at:
            > >
            >
            ><http://www.kiteforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=5202&forum=1&0>http://www.kiteforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=5202&forum=1&0
            > >
            > >FKA, Inc.
            > >
            > >transcribed by:
            > >Rick Iossi
            >
            >
            >
            > Christopher Gaskins, MAI
            > Meridian Associates, Inc.
            > P.O. Box 21177
            > Salem, Oregon 97307-1177
            >
            > e-mail: gaskins@...
            >
            > (503) 463-5000 (phone)
            > (503) 463-5200 (fax)
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been
            > removed]
            >
            >


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          • flkitesurfer <flkitesurfer@hotmail.com>
            Hello George, Please check with your local kiteboarding gear retailer to see if he has one. NSI, Kitehigh.com, Murrays.com and many other sources have these
            Message 5 of 15 , Jan 24, 2003
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              Hello George,

              Please check with your local kiteboarding gear retailer to see if he
              has one. NSI, Kitehigh.com, Murrays.com and many other sources have
              these modified "trigger" shackles available. I M P O R T A N T :
              Make sure that the Wichard or Tylaska shackle has been modified to
              facilitate release. Some prefer a cord and knob others prefer the
              kind with a metal bold and two knobs on either side of the shackle.
              Using the shackle as it comes from the manufacturer for yachting
              applications is NOT ACCEPTABLE. A modification to facilitate
              release MUST BE DONE kiteboarding.

              Also, if it hasn't been obvious to this point, there are no perfect
              solutions at this point. All the quick release options that I am
              aware of have their own issues. The side release shackles may not
              release at all under certain circumstances. The Wichards and
              Tylaskas may release too easily and prematurely. If I had to choose
              between no release or premature release I think I would go with the
              later option in kiteboarding. The pin quick releases may bend or
              require excessive force to release, etc. As with many other aspects
              of kiteboarding, the rider needs to inspect, test and carefully
              maintain things himself. Talking about your experiences and
              observations in these Internet forums will spread the value of what
              you have learned to others.

              FKA, Inc.

              transcribed by:
              Rick Iossi
              --- In ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com, George Sarris
              <jakefarley2000@y...> wrote:
              > Where can one purchase the proper quick release? I
              > currently use a snap shackle with a ring but after
              > what I read, I want to switch to something more
              > reliable.
              >
              > George
              > --- Christopher Gaskins <gaskins@m...>
              > wrote:
              > > Rick,
              > >
              > > I really, really appreciate the accident reports.
              > > However, I am frustrated
              > > by the fact that the report is distributed in
              > > Acrobat PDF format with
              > > *printing restrictions*. I want to read the entire
              > > 50-60+ page report, but
              > > not on my screen, so the service is working against
              > > itself in terms of
              > > maximizing the benefit of the report to the
              > > community. Is there anything
              > > that can be done about this? Why is it copyrighted
              > > material with
              > > restriction on the reproduction? I care deeply about
              > > this sport and value
              > > tremendously the effort that is put into the
              > > accident report. I just want
              > > to see the benefit of the report maximized...
              > >
              > > Chris
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > >There has been another serious accident.
              > > Reportedly the failure of an
              > > >improperly rigged snap shackle to release was a key
              > > factor in the accident.
              > > >If a snap shackle is used in lieu of a Quick
              > > Release, it must be properly
              > > >rigged, maintained and tested to improve the odds
              > > that it will release when
              > > >needed. Accidents will happen in kiteboarding it
              > > would be good to try to
              > > >reduce the quantity of avoidable ones. More about
              > > this at:
              > > >
              > >
              > ><http://www.kiteforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?
              topic=5202&forum=1&0>http://www.kiteforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?
              topic=5202&forum=1&0
              > > >
              > > >FKA, Inc.
              > > >
              > > >transcribed by:
              > > >Rick Iossi
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Christopher Gaskins, MAI
              > > Meridian Associates, Inc.
              > > P.O. Box 21177
              > > Salem, Oregon 97307-1177
              > >
              > > e-mail: gaskins@m...
              > >
              > > (503) 463-5000 (phone)
              > > (503) 463-5200 (fax)
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
              > > removed]
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              > __________________________________________________
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              > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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            • Hung Vu
              There is a simpler solution to all these: Don t use the chicken loop nor shackle in. The danger of the chicken loop (or shackle in the front lines) far
              Message 6 of 15 , Jan 24, 2003
              • 0 Attachment
                There is a simpler solution to all these: Don't use the chicken loop nor
                shackle in.

                The danger of the chicken loop (or shackle in the front lines) far
                out-weighs its advantage (if there is any). The number of serious
                accidents in the past invloving the chicken loop (or the shackle) more
                or less has demonstrated this.

                P.S., The "spin leash" can be implemented without having to have the
                chicken loop (or shackle in the front lines) part.

                Hung.

                "flkitesurfer " wrote:
                >
                > Hello George,
                >
                > Please check with your local kiteboarding gear retailer to see if he
                > has one. NSI, Kitehigh.com, Murrays.com and many other sources have
                > these modified "trigger" shackles available. I M P O R T A N T :
                > Make sure that the Wichard or Tylaska shackle has been modified to
                > facilitate release. Some prefer a cord and knob others prefer the
                > kind with a metal bold and two knobs on either side of the shackle.
                > Using the shackle as it comes from the manufacturer for yachting
                > applications is NOT ACCEPTABLE. A modification to facilitate
                > release MUST BE DONE kiteboarding.
                >
                > Also, if it hasn't been obvious to this point, there are no perfect
                > solutions at this point. All the quick release options that I am
                > aware of have their own issues. The side release shackles may not
                > release at all under certain circumstances. The Wichards and
                > Tylaskas may release too easily and prematurely. If I had to choose
                > between no release or premature release I think I would go with the
                > later option in kiteboarding. The pin quick releases may bend or
                > require excessive force to release, etc. As with many other aspects
                > of kiteboarding, the rider needs to inspect, test and carefully
                > maintain things himself. Talking about your experiences and
                > observations in these Internet forums will spread the value of what
                > you have learned to others.
                >
                > FKA, Inc.
                >
                > transcribed by:
                > Rick Iossi
                > --- In ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com, George Sarris
                > <jakefarley2000@y...> wrote:
                > > Where can one purchase the proper quick release? I
                > > currently use a snap shackle with a ring but after
                > > what I read, I want to switch to something more
                > > reliable.
                > >
                > > George
                > > --- Christopher Gaskins <gaskins@m...>
                > > wrote:
                > > > Rick,
                > > >
                > > > I really, really appreciate the accident reports.
                > > > However, I am frustrated
                > > > by the fact that the report is distributed in
                > > > Acrobat PDF format with
                > > > *printing restrictions*. I want to read the entire
                > > > 50-60+ page report, but
                > > > not on my screen, so the service is working against
                > > > itself in terms of
                > > > maximizing the benefit of the report to the
                > > > community. Is there anything
                > > > that can be done about this? Why is it copyrighted
                > > > material with
                > > > restriction on the reproduction? I care deeply about
                > > > this sport and value
                > > > tremendously the effort that is put into the
                > > > accident report. I just want
                > > > to see the benefit of the report maximized...
                > > >
                > > > Chris
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > >There has been another serious accident.
                > > > Reportedly the failure of an
                > > > >improperly rigged snap shackle to release was a key
                > > > factor in the accident.
                > > > >If a snap shackle is used in lieu of a Quick
                > > > Release, it must be properly
                > > > >rigged, maintained and tested to improve the odds
                > > > that it will release when
                > > > >needed. Accidents will happen in kiteboarding it
                > > > would be good to try to
                > > > >reduce the quantity of avoidable ones. More about
                > > > this at:
                > > > >
                > > >
                > > ><http://www.kiteforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?
                > topic=5202&forum=1&0>http://www.kiteforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?
                > topic=5202&forum=1&0
                > > > >
                > > > >FKA, Inc.
                > > > >
                > > > >transcribed by:
                > > > >Rick Iossi
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Christopher Gaskins, MAI
                > > > Meridian Associates, Inc.
                > > > P.O. Box 21177
                > > > Salem, Oregon 97307-1177
                > > >
                > > > e-mail: gaskins@m...
                > > >
                > > > (503) 463-5000 (phone)
                > > > (503) 463-5200 (fax)
                > > >
                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                > > > removed]
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > > __________________________________________________
                > > Do you Yahoo!?
                > > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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              • Rick Iossi
                Good point Hung. The added wind range that the chicken loop allows you to handle does up the anty for misfortune as compared to going with a kite with no
                Message 7 of 15 , Jan 24, 2003
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                  Good point Hung. The added wind range that the chicken loop allows you to
                  handle does up the anty for misfortune as compared to going with a kite with
                  no depower capacity, two line or four line without/chicken loop. With no
                  chicken loop the main factors that allow you to increase your wind range
                  with a given kite size are skill, line length and board size. Permanently
                  connecting to a traction kite is always a serious decision only more so near
                  hard objects. I concluded about two years ago that in doing so I could be
                  seriously injured as a consequence.

                  In the case of avoiding the chicken loop, I would still advise having some
                  form of mechanical release for the main harness line. Ideally, this would be
                  a reliable pin release on the harness line. About three years ago this month
                  I treated myself to at least a 100 ft. high speed dragging across sand with
                  a FIVE SQ. METER Wipika Classic. I couldn't unhook at one point aside from
                  which the early depowering leash design had tied into a tight knot by the
                  dragging. I didn't appreciate the significance of kiteboarding in unstable
                  weather in those early days. I do NOW!

                  Anyway, having an option to manually unhooking from the fixed harness line
                  such as an integrated pin quick release would be worth considering.

                  FKA, Inc.

                  transcribed by:
                  Rick Iossi

                  --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, Hung Vu <hungvu@n...> wrote:
                  >There is a simpler solution to all these: Don't use the chicken loop nor
                  >shackle in.
                  >
                  >The danger of the chicken loop (or shackle in the front lines) far
                  >out-weighs its advantage (if there is any). The number of serious
                  >accidents in the past invloving the chicken loop (or the shackle) more
                  >or less has demonstrated this.
                  >
                  >P.S., The "spin leash" can be implemented without having to have the
                  >chicken loop (or shackle in the front lines) part.
                  >
                  >Hung.
                  >
                  >"flkitesurfer " wrote:
                  > > > Hello George,
                  > > > Please check with your local kiteboarding gear retailer to see if he
                  > > has one. NSI, Kitehigh.com, Murrays.com and many other sources have
                  > > these modified "trigger" shackles available. I M P O R T A N T :
                  > > Make sure that the Wichard or Tylaska shackle has been modified to
                  > > facilitate release. Some prefer a cord and knob others prefer the
                  > > kind with a metal bold and two knobs on either side of the shackle.
                  > > Using the shackle as it comes from the manufacturer for yachting
                  > > applications is NOT ACCEPTABLE. A modification to facilitate
                  > > release MUST BE DONE kiteboarding.
                  > > > Also, if it hasn't been obvious to this point, there are no perfect
                  > > solutions at this point. All the quick release options that I am
                  > > aware of have their own issues. The side release shackles may not
                  > > release at all under certain circumstances. The Wichards and
                  > > Tylaskas may release too easily and prematurely. If I had to choose
                  > > between no release or premature release I think I would go with the
                  > > later option in kiteboarding. The pin quick releases may bend or
                  > > require excessive force to release, etc. As with many other aspects
                  > > of kiteboarding, the rider needs to inspect, test and carefully
                  > > maintain things himself. Talking about your experiences and
                  > > observations in these Internet forums will spread the value of what
                  > > you have learned to others.
                  > > > FKA, Inc.
                  > > > transcribed by:
                  > > Rick Iossi






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                • Hung Vu
                  ... One can always use a longer trim strap to use all the wind range available to a kite (should I add this to the Kitesurfing Myths?) The only thing a
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jan 24, 2003
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Rick Iossi wrote:
                    > Good point Hung. The added wind range that the chicken loop allows you
                    > to
                    > handle does up the anty for misfortune as compared to going with a
                    > kite with
                    > no depower capacity, two line or four line without/chicken loop. With
                    > no
                    > chicken loop the main factors that allow you to increase your wind
                    > range
                    > with a given kite size are skill, line length and board size.

                    One can always use a longer trim strap to use all the wind range
                    available to a kite (should I add this to the Kitesurfing Myths?) The
                    only thing a chicken loop (or shackle in to the front lines) does is to
                    provide instantaneous depowering and that can be replaced easily by
                    edging. The danger of the chicken loop (or shackle in to the front
                    lines) is just too much for such a little "advantage" (some may not
                    consider it's an advantage). Shackle users (and to some extend chicken
                    loop users) are currently betting their life on one SINGLE "mechanical"
                    part that may fail.

                    Without the chicken loop (or shackle in to the front lines) we are back
                    to the "safer old days" when everyone (or almost ;-) would launch and
                    land the the kite "unhooked".

                    > Anyway, having an option to manually unhooking from the fixed harness
                    > line
                    > such as an integrated pin quick release would be worth considering.

                    As long as it works, the more option the better.

                    Hung.
                  • flkitesurfer <flkitesurfer@hotmail.com>
                    Hello Hung, Looking forward to hearing about your new concept once it is online. The sport needs more good innovation in this critical area. With regard to not
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jan 27, 2003
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hello Hung,

                      Looking forward to hearing about your new concept once it is online.
                      The sport needs more good innovation in this critical area.

                      With regard to not using the chicken loop, lots of pro riders are or
                      at least were doing just that. Of course many of these folks bring
                      more than a little skill into things and other considerations, that
                      may not apply readily to many kiteboarders.

                      I like to ride connected to the chicken loop as instantaneous
                      depowering is a great thing to have to manage gusts, riding closer
                      to the wind, etc. Ideally, what I don't like is being connected near
                      shore, hard objects, etc. As others have said many of the current
                      and upcoming kite designs rely upon being hooked in to the chicken
                      loop for proper flight characteristics. There isn't much getting
                      around that point during normal riding as opposed to launching and
                      landing times.

                      I am in agreement though about launching unhooked or not connected
                      to the chicken loop with most kites, at least the ones that I have
                      owned in the past (22 and counting!). One set of ideas for
                      consideration and discussion follow. The core idea of all this is to
                      avoid being connected to the control bar while launching/landing and
                      near hard objects.

                      Use the trim strap or line, perhaps even a longer one than normal to
                      depower the kite prior to launch and landing. You have to build
                      judgment over trial and error to learn how much depower you can get
                      away with with a given kite and wind speed and still have acceptable
                      flight characteristics and minimal kite load. Get the kite up and
                      just off the beach, pointed towards the water (after careful
                      preflighting), stroll down to the water under the tug of the kite.
                      Holding the bar throughout this process. Once you are at the water
                      with your kite out over the water and low, hook into the fixed
                      harness line. It would be great if it was a quick release fixed
                      harness line too. Stoop down grab your board and move on without
                      delay. Get into the water, body drag out or otherwise get a line
                      length or better two from shore. Then connect your ckicken loop
                      using the fixed harness line to carry the kite load.

                      Coming back in you merely reverse the process. Ideally it would be
                      best to not be hooked in when you are near shore and be ready to
                      have an undelayed assisted landing or be ready to activate your kite
                      depowering leash with the kite in the water (easier on the kite,
                      absent waves and rocks) or on the beach.

                      I am working on a new photo sequence of this that I shot yesterday.
                      Input on all this is welcome.

                      FKA, Inc.

                      transcribed by:
                      Rick Iossi



                      --- In ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com, Hung Vu <hungvu@n...> wrote:
                      > Rick Iossi wrote:
                      > > Good point Hung. The added wind range that the chicken loop
                      allows you
                      > > to
                      > > handle does up the anty for misfortune as compared to going with
                      a
                      > > kite with
                      > > no depower capacity, two line or four line without/chicken loop.
                      With
                      > > no
                      > > chicken loop the main factors that allow you to increase your
                      wind
                      > > range
                      > > with a given kite size are skill, line length and board size.
                      >
                      > One can always use a longer trim strap to use all the wind range
                      > available to a kite (should I add this to the Kitesurfing Myths?)
                      The
                      > only thing a chicken loop (or shackle in to the front lines) does
                      is to
                      > provide instantaneous depowering and that can be replaced easily by
                      > edging. The danger of the chicken loop (or shackle in to the front
                      > lines) is just too much for such a little "advantage" (some may not
                      > consider it's an advantage). Shackle users (and to some extend
                      chicken
                      > loop users) are currently betting their life on one
                      SINGLE "mechanical"
                      > part that may fail.
                      >
                      > Without the chicken loop (or shackle in to the front lines) we are
                      back
                      > to the "safer old days" when everyone (or almost ;-) would launch
                      and
                      > land the the kite "unhooked".
                      >
                      > > Anyway, having an option to manually unhooking from the fixed
                      harness
                      > > line
                      > > such as an integrated pin quick release would be worth
                      considering.
                      >
                      > As long as it works, the more option the better.
                      >
                      > Hung.
                    • Hung Vu
                      Rick, ... I got all the ideas in place (from theory, the whole thing should work - instantaneous AOA control without the chicken loop or shackle in - and have
                      Message 10 of 15 , Jan 27, 2003
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Rick,

                        "flkitesurfer " wrote:
                        > Looking forward to hearing about your new concept once it is online.
                        > The sport needs more good innovation in this critical area.

                        I got all the ideas in place (from theory, the whole thing should work -
                        instantaneous AOA control without the chicken loop or shackle in - and
                        have a number of other additional security and non-security related
                        benefits).

                        I just need to test it to ensure that it is easy to use and not too
                        difficult to implement. I will try it on a number of inflatables both
                        old and new (Naish AR5, Sling Shot Fuel, Ocean Rodeo Bronco and probably
                        Arc).

                        Stay tune...

                        Hung.
                      • Johnnykiter(Claude) <johnnykitesurfer@ro
                        ... seen and i ordered one. It has Chichen loop tru bar + trim strap. For a Emergency quick release you just push to bar up hard to push release and you are
                        Message 11 of 15 , Feb 1, 2003
                        • 0 Attachment
                          ---Ocean Rodeo has a New Bar out, it's called Joystick one of best i
                          seen and i ordered one. It has Chichen loop tru bar + trim strap. For
                          a Emergency quick release you just push to bar up hard to push release
                          and you are detached from kite without having to power up to unhook.
                          Two more quick release with little pull balls one on wrist leash
                          other on harness loop . Nice Bar. You Can See it at
                          www.oceanrodeo.com





                          In ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com, George Sarris <jakefarley2000@y...>
                          wrote:
                          > Where can one purchase the proper quick release? I
                          > currently use a snap shackle with a ring but after
                          > what I read, I want to switch to something more
                          > reliable.
                          >
                          > George
                          > --- Christopher Gaskins <gaskins@m...>
                          > wrote:
                          > > Rick,
                          > >
                          > > I really, really appreciate the accident reports.
                          > > However, I am frustrated
                          > > by the fact that the report is distributed in
                          > > Acrobat PDF format with
                          > > *printing restrictions*. I want to read the entire
                          > > 50-60+ page report, but
                          > > not on my screen, so the service is working against
                          > > itself in terms of
                          > > maximizing the benefit of the report to the
                          > > community. Is there anything
                          > > that can be done about this? Why is it copyrighted
                          > > material with
                          > > restriction on the reproduction? I care deeply about
                          > > this sport and value
                          > > tremendously the effort that is put into the
                          > > accident report. I just want
                          > > to see the benefit of the report maximized...
                          > >
                          > > Chris
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > >There has been another serious accident.
                          > > Reportedly the failure of an
                          > > >improperly rigged snap shackle to release was a key
                          > > factor in the accident.
                          > > >If a snap shackle is used in lieu of a Quick
                          > > Release, it must be properly
                          > > >rigged, maintained and tested to improve the odds
                          > > that it will release when
                          > > >needed. Accidents will happen in kiteboarding it
                          > > would be good to try to
                          > > >reduce the quantity of avoidable ones. More about
                          > > this at:
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
                          ><http://www.kiteforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=5202&forum=1&0>http://www.kiteforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=5202&forum=1&0
                          > > >
                          > > >FKA, Inc.
                          > > >
                          > > >transcribed by:
                          > > >Rick Iossi
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Christopher Gaskins, MAI
                          > > Meridian Associates, Inc.
                          > > P.O. Box 21177
                          > > Salem, Oregon 97307-1177
                          > >
                          > > e-mail: gaskins@m...
                          > >
                          > > (503) 463-5000 (phone)
                          > > (503) 463-5200 (fax)
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                          > > removed]
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          > __________________________________________________
                          > Do you Yahoo!?
                          > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
                          > http://mailplus.yahoo.com
                        • matt nuzzo
                          Check out the new Leash-Less Chicken Loop system on Flexifoil s new Storm2 Bar. It is really clean and 100% safe. Go to www.flexifoil.com ...
                          Message 12 of 15 , Mar 7, 2003
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Check out the new Leash-Less Chicken Loop system on
                            Flexifoil's new Storm2 Bar. It is really clean and
                            100% safe. Go to www.flexifoil.com

                            --- "Johnnykiter(Claude)
                            <johnnykitesurfer@...>"
                            <johnnykitesurfer@...> wrote:
                            > ---Ocean Rodeo has a New Bar out, it's called
                            > Joystick one of best i
                            > seen and i ordered one. It has Chichen loop tru bar
                            > + trim strap. For
                            > a Emergency quick release you just push to bar up
                            > hard to push release
                            > and you are detached from kite without having to
                            > power up to unhook.
                            > Two more quick release with little pull balls one
                            > on wrist leash
                            > other on harness loop . Nice Bar. You Can See it at
                            > www.oceanrodeo.com
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > In ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com, George Sarris
                            > <jakefarley2000@y...>
                            > wrote:
                            > > Where can one purchase the proper quick release?
                            > I
                            > > currently use a snap shackle with a ring but after
                            > > what I read, I want to switch to something more
                            > > reliable.
                            > >
                            > > George
                            > > --- Christopher Gaskins <gaskins@m...>
                            > > wrote:
                            > > > Rick,
                            > > >
                            > > > I really, really appreciate the accident
                            > reports.
                            > > > However, I am frustrated
                            > > > by the fact that the report is distributed in
                            > > > Acrobat PDF format with
                            > > > *printing restrictions*. I want to read the
                            > entire
                            > > > 50-60+ page report, but
                            > > > not on my screen, so the service is working
                            > against
                            > > > itself in terms of
                            > > > maximizing the benefit of the report to the
                            > > > community. Is there anything
                            > > > that can be done about this? Why is it
                            > copyrighted
                            > > > material with
                            > > > restriction on the reproduction? I care deeply
                            > about
                            > > > this sport and value
                            > > > tremendously the effort that is put into the
                            > > > accident report. I just want
                            > > > to see the benefit of the report maximized...
                            > > >
                            > > > Chris
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > >There has been another serious accident.
                            > > > Reportedly the failure of an
                            > > > >improperly rigged snap shackle to release was a
                            > key
                            > > > factor in the accident.
                            > > > >If a snap shackle is used in lieu of a Quick
                            > > > Release, it must be properly
                            > > > >rigged, maintained and tested to improve the
                            > odds
                            > > > that it will release when
                            > > > >needed. Accidents will happen in kiteboarding
                            > it
                            > > > would be good to try to
                            > > > >reduce the quantity of avoidable ones. More
                            > about
                            > > > this at:
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            >
                            ><http://www.kiteforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=5202&forum=1&0>http://www.kiteforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=5202&forum=1&0
                            > > > >
                            > > > >FKA, Inc.
                            > > > >
                            > > > >transcribed by:
                            > > > >Rick Iossi
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > Christopher Gaskins, MAI
                            > > > Meridian Associates, Inc.
                            > > > P.O. Box 21177
                            > > > Salem, Oregon 97307-1177
                            > > >
                            > > > e-mail: gaskins@m...
                            > > >
                            > > > (503) 463-5000 (phone)
                            > > > (503) 463-5200 (fax)
                            > > >
                            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                            > > > removed]
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > __________________________________________________
                            > > Do you Yahoo!?
                            > > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up
                            > now.
                            > > http://mailplus.yahoo.com
                            >
                            >


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                          • philip ellis
                            I use a Winchard snap shackle and have found that this is by far the safest snap shackle mechanism. It releases even under extreme load and it does it every
                            Message 13 of 15 , Mar 11, 2003
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I use a Winchard snap shackle and have found that this
                              is by far the safest snap shackle mechanism. It
                              releases even under extreme load and it does it every
                              time!!


                              --- matt nuzzo <realkiteobx@...> wrote: > Check
                              out the new Leash-Less Chicken Loop system on
                              > Flexifoil's new Storm2 Bar. It is really clean and
                              > 100% safe. Go to www.flexifoil.com
                              >
                              > --- "Johnnykiter(Claude)
                              > <johnnykitesurfer@...>"
                              > <johnnykitesurfer@...> wrote:
                              > > ---Ocean Rodeo has a New Bar out, it's called
                              > > Joystick one of best i
                              > > seen and i ordered one. It has Chichen loop tru
                              > bar
                              > > + trim strap. For
                              > > a Emergency quick release you just push to bar up
                              > > hard to push release
                              > > and you are detached from kite without having to
                              > > power up to unhook.
                              > > Two more quick release with little pull balls one
                              > > on wrist leash
                              > > other on harness loop . Nice Bar. You Can See it
                              > at
                              > > www.oceanrodeo.com
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > In ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com, George Sarris
                              > > <jakefarley2000@y...>
                              > > wrote:
                              > > > Where can one purchase the proper quick release?
                              >
                              > > I
                              > > > currently use a snap shackle with a ring but
                              > after
                              > > > what I read, I want to switch to something more
                              > > > reliable.
                              > > >
                              > > > George
                              > > > --- Christopher Gaskins <gaskins@m...>
                              > > > wrote:
                              > > > > Rick,
                              > > > >
                              > > > > I really, really appreciate the accident
                              > > reports.
                              > > > > However, I am frustrated
                              > > > > by the fact that the report is distributed in
                              > > > > Acrobat PDF format with
                              > > > > *printing restrictions*. I want to read the
                              > > entire
                              > > > > 50-60+ page report, but
                              > > > > not on my screen, so the service is working
                              > > against
                              > > > > itself in terms of
                              > > > > maximizing the benefit of the report to the
                              > > > > community. Is there anything
                              > > > > that can be done about this? Why is it
                              > > copyrighted
                              > > > > material with
                              > > > > restriction on the reproduction? I care deeply
                              > > about
                              > > > > this sport and value
                              > > > > tremendously the effort that is put into the
                              > > > > accident report. I just want
                              > > > > to see the benefit of the report maximized...
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Chris
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > >There has been another serious accident.
                              > > > > Reportedly the failure of an
                              > > > > >improperly rigged snap shackle to release was
                              > a
                              > > key
                              > > > > factor in the accident.
                              > > > > >If a snap shackle is used in lieu of a Quick
                              > > > > Release, it must be properly
                              > > > > >rigged, maintained and tested to improve the
                              > > odds
                              > > > > that it will release when
                              > > > > >needed. Accidents will happen in kiteboarding
                              > > it
                              > > > > would be good to try to
                              > > > > >reduce the quantity of avoidable ones. More
                              > > about
                              > > > > this at:
                              > > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              >
                              ><http://www.kiteforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=5202&forum=1&0>http://www.kiteforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=5202&forum=1&0
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >FKA, Inc.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >transcribed by:
                              > > > > >Rick Iossi
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Christopher Gaskins, MAI
                              > > > > Meridian Associates, Inc.
                              > > > > P.O. Box 21177
                              > > > > Salem, Oregon 97307-1177
                              > > > >
                              > > > > e-mail: gaskins@m...
                              > > > >
                              > > > > (503) 463-5000 (phone)
                              > > > > (503) 463-5200 (fax)
                              > > > >
                              > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                              > > > > removed]
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > __________________________________________________
                              > > > Do you Yahoo!?
                              > > > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up
                              > > now.
                              > > > http://mailplus.yahoo.com
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              > __________________________________________________
                              > Do you Yahoo!?
                              > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up
                              > now.
                              > http://mailplus.yahoo.com
                              >

                              __________________________________________________
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                            • KiteHIGH Hawaii
                              In our school, if folks are keen on the snap shackle, we recommend they try attaching a wrist leash to the quick release of the shackle. Make the line length
                              Message 14 of 15 , Mar 12, 2003
                              • 0 Attachment
                                In our school, if folks are keen on the snap shackle, we recommend they try
                                attaching a wrist leash to the quick release of the shackle. Make the line
                                length of the leash long enough so it will only release when you arm is at
                                about 95% extension. This allow a "no think" quick solution to escaping bad
                                scenarios. Later as you progress with your kite skills, you can safely
                                "wean" down to a pull release at the shackle.

                                Of course you need a back up kite safety line attached (to keep the kite
                                with you but de powered) to the harness, ala the latest gear buy Naish,
                                Takoon, Wipika etc which also incorporate another quick release on the kite
                                safety line.

                                Never fly with out a quick release system of some sort on the sheeting
                                lines, I have witnessed numerous close calls....that were too close a
                                couple of times.

                                Hope this helps someone, somewhere.

                                Best Regards
                                Andy Heaton

                                ph: 1 866 646 7835 Toll Free
                                Int ph: +11 808 637 5483

                                66-250 Kam Hwy
                                Haleiwa, Oahu, 96793

                                http://www.kitehigh.com
                                The original, since '99, over 120 pages...

                                http://www.alohakiteboarding.com
                                Oahu - Hawaii's premier lesson center.
                                IKO & PASA Certified instruction.


                                >Message: 1
                                > Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 01:28:26 +0000 (GMT)
                                > From: philip ellis <pje21@...>
                                >Subject: Re: Re: WARNING TO SNAP SHACKLE USERS!!!
                                >
                                >I use a Winchard snap shackle and have found that this
                                >is by far the safest snap shackle mechanism. It
                                >releases even under extreme load and it does it every
                                >time!!
                              • George Sarris
                                I am curious as to how many have had to use their emergency quick release system. It would be interesting to see how many have and what type of system they
                                Message 15 of 15 , Mar 12, 2003
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  I am curious as to how many have had to use
                                  their emergency quick release system. It would
                                  be interesting to see how many have and what type of
                                  system they have. Also, indicate under what
                                  circumstances they had to used it. i.e. weather
                                  conditions, physical conditions(fatigue, etc.).
                                  Perhaps some sort of survey could be conducted.

                                  Just a thought,
                                  Jake

                                  --- philip ellis <pje21@...> wrote:
                                  > I use a Winchard snap shackle and have found that
                                  > this
                                  > is by far the safest snap shackle mechanism. It
                                  > releases even under extreme load and it does it
                                  > every
                                  > time!!
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- matt nuzzo <realkiteobx@...> wrote: >
                                  > Check
                                  > out the new Leash-Less Chicken Loop system on
                                  > > Flexifoil's new Storm2 Bar. It is really clean
                                  > and
                                  > > 100% safe. Go to www.flexifoil.com
                                  > >
                                  > > --- "Johnnykiter(Claude)
                                  > > <johnnykitesurfer@...>"
                                  > > <johnnykitesurfer@...> wrote:
                                  > > > ---Ocean Rodeo has a New Bar out, it's called
                                  > > > Joystick one of best i
                                  > > > seen and i ordered one. It has Chichen loop tru
                                  > > bar
                                  > > > + trim strap. For
                                  > > > a Emergency quick release you just push to bar
                                  > up
                                  > > > hard to push release
                                  > > > and you are detached from kite without having to
                                  > > > power up to unhook.
                                  > > > Two more quick release with little pull balls
                                  > one
                                  > > > on wrist leash
                                  > > > other on harness loop . Nice Bar. You Can See
                                  > it
                                  > > at
                                  > > > www.oceanrodeo.com
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > In ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com, George Sarris
                                  > > > <jakefarley2000@y...>
                                  > > > wrote:
                                  > > > > Where can one purchase the proper quick
                                  > release?
                                  > >
                                  > > > I
                                  > > > > currently use a snap shackle with a ring but
                                  > > after
                                  > > > > what I read, I want to switch to something
                                  > more
                                  > > > > reliable.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > George
                                  > > > > --- Christopher Gaskins <gaskins@m...>
                                  > > > > wrote:
                                  > > > > > Rick,
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > I really, really appreciate the accident
                                  > > > reports.
                                  > > > > > However, I am frustrated
                                  > > > > > by the fact that the report is distributed
                                  > in
                                  > > > > > Acrobat PDF format with
                                  > > > > > *printing restrictions*. I want to read the
                                  > > > entire
                                  > > > > > 50-60+ page report, but
                                  > > > > > not on my screen, so the service is working
                                  > > > against
                                  > > > > > itself in terms of
                                  > > > > > maximizing the benefit of the report to the
                                  > > > > > community. Is there anything
                                  > > > > > that can be done about this? Why is it
                                  > > > copyrighted
                                  > > > > > material with
                                  > > > > > restriction on the reproduction? I care
                                  > deeply
                                  > > > about
                                  > > > > > this sport and value
                                  > > > > > tremendously the effort that is put into the
                                  > > > > > accident report. I just want
                                  > > > > > to see the benefit of the report
                                  > maximized...
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Chris
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > >There has been another serious accident.
                                  > > > > > Reportedly the failure of an
                                  > > > > > >improperly rigged snap shackle to release
                                  > was
                                  > > a
                                  > > > key
                                  > > > > > factor in the accident.
                                  > > > > > >If a snap shackle is used in lieu of a
                                  > Quick
                                  > > > > > Release, it must be properly
                                  > > > > > >rigged, maintained and tested to improve
                                  > the
                                  > > > odds
                                  > > > > > that it will release when
                                  > > > > > >needed. Accidents will happen in
                                  > kiteboarding
                                  > > > it
                                  > > > > > would be good to try to
                                  > > > > > >reduce the quantity of avoidable ones. More
                                  > > > about
                                  > > > > > this at:
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  ><http://www.kiteforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=5202&forum=1&0>http://www.kiteforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=5202&forum=1&0
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > >FKA, Inc.
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > >transcribed by:
                                  > > > > > >Rick Iossi
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Christopher Gaskins, MAI
                                  > > > > > Meridian Associates, Inc.
                                  > > > > > P.O. Box 21177
                                  > > > > > Salem, Oregon 97307-1177
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > e-mail: gaskins@m...
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > (503) 463-5000 (phone)
                                  > > > > > (503) 463-5200 (fax)
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                  > > > > > removed]
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > __________________________________________________
                                  > > > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                  > > > > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign
                                  > up
                                  > > > now.
                                  > > > > http://mailplus.yahoo.com
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > __________________________________________________
                                  > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                  > > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up
                                  > > now.
                                  > > http://mailplus.yahoo.com
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > __________________________________________________
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                                  > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
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