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Re: Woody Board

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  • kite_hoser
    Thanks so much for the replies guys, I agree wholeheartedly that the board is too small. We thought the rails the way we made them would ve worked better but
    Message 1 of 14 , Jul 4, 2002
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      Thanks so much for the replies guys, I agree wholeheartedly that the
      board is too small. We thought the rails the way we made them
      would've worked better but obviously not. You're right Hung about
      the "getting out of submarine stage". Hard to get it up on a plane
      again once it does this and also you both have the same views on the
      size of board. As for using cquads, well i know everyone will
      disagree but we spend alot of time buggying and skiing (land
      traction) and the cquads are amazing kites. We can all go right into
      the wind for large distances with these kites and I have a few foils
      that I could not get within' breathing distance of the upwind of the
      cquads. The foils luff and curl up, pop back open in the power zone
      when trying to go that far upwind. In gusts, these problems are even
      more exagerrated with foils. So, having a quiver of land kites and
      water specific kites is not at all cost feasable for us. The cquads
      like the water well enough. We launch from sandbar in the water
      where you can stand and then it's a matter of not crashing the kite
      out in deeper water. Exactly the same as using a land foil in the
      water which a lot of people do in our area and get along ok with
      there kites. The advantage we have on them though, is when they do
      crash in water their fun is over until they dry out there kites on
      shore again, which a cquad doesn't have to do. As for the power
      thing, it was unbelieveable. I think for our very first time (none
      of us 3 have any windsurfing or wakeboarding experience at all) we
      did fantastic with that tiny board. If we make another board it will
      be that much better, as well as some more practice and the cquads
      will (have) to work for us. We had pictures taken of us surfing last
      weekend so when i get copies i'll post them up to show how elite
      cquads can be even for new surfers. :-) But please don't think that
      i'm saying anyone can get on a cquad and surf. It's taken us many
      months of land traction activities to really learn our kites. If
      you're going to start from scratch with surfing, obviously the cquad
      would slow your learning curve down greatly because of the time it
      takes to learn these kites to get the proper depower, powering up and
      anti luffing technique happenning.
      Good winds from Canada and thanks for the help with the board input,
      muchly appreciated!!!!!
      Buggy Tyrant
      P.S. Cquads Rule!!!!!!!!!! :-)
    • Kitepower
      Good stuff! C-Quads can be used on the water as I said, Kane Hartill who used to be sponsored by Peter Lynn used them in the early days of kiteboarding 2 years
      Message 2 of 14 , Jul 4, 2002
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        Good stuff! C-Quads can be used on the water as I said, Kane Hartill who
        used to be sponsored by Peter Lynn used them in the early days of
        kiteboarding 2 years ago, he could do amazing stuff on them, and he very
        rarely put them into the water.
        I do not know what type of foils your friends have but there are plenty that
        can match a c-quad now, and in the right hands, they can be re-launched off
        the water, if you are quick, but even when wet a modern foil will fly and
        will dry out quite quickly.
        Each to their own, but no kite absolutely rules!! :-))
        Cya and
        Goodwinds
        Steve McCormack
        http://www.kitepower.com.au
        mailto:sydney@...
        Open 7 days
        126 Beach St, Coogee, Sydney, Australia 2034
        Phone +61293157894

        -----Original Message-----
        From: kite_hoser [mailto:sir_goth@...]
        Sent: 05 July, 2002 3:07 PM
        To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [ksurfschool] Re: Woody Board


        Thanks so much for the replies guys, I agree wholeheartedly that the
        board is too small. We thought the rails the way we made them
        would've worked better but obviously not. You're right Hung about
        the "getting out of submarine stage". Hard to get it up on a plane
        again once it does this and also you both have the same views on the
        size of board. As for using cquads, well i know everyone will
        disagree but we spend alot of time buggying and skiing (land
        traction) and the cquads are amazing kites. We can all go right into
        the wind for large distances with these kites and I have a few foils
        that I could not get within' breathing distance of the upwind of the
        cquads. The foils luff and curl up, pop back open in the power zone
        when trying to go that far upwind. In gusts, these problems are even
        more exagerrated with foils. So, having a quiver of land kites and
        water specific kites is not at all cost feasable for us. The cquads
        like the water well enough. We launch from sandbar in the water
        where you can stand and then it's a matter of not crashing the kite
        out in deeper water. Exactly the same as using a land foil in the
        water which a lot of people do in our area and get along ok with
        there kites. The advantage we have on them though, is when they do
        crash in water their fun is over until they dry out there kites on
        shore again, which a cquad doesn't have to do. As for the power
        thing, it was unbelieveable. I think for our very first time (none
        of us 3 have any windsurfing or wakeboarding experience at all) we
        did fantastic with that tiny board. If we make another board it will
        be that much better, as well as some more practice and the cquads
        will (have) to work for us. We had pictures taken of us surfing last
        weekend so when i get copies i'll post them up to show how elite
        cquads can be even for new surfers. :-) But please don't think that
        i'm saying anyone can get on a cquad and surf. It's taken us many
        months of land traction activities to really learn our kites. If
        you're going to start from scratch with surfing, obviously the cquad
        would slow your learning curve down greatly because of the time it
        takes to learn these kites to get the proper depower, powering up and
        anti luffing technique happenning.
        Good winds from Canada and thanks for the help with the board input,
        muchly appreciated!!!!!
        Buggy Tyrant
        P.S. Cquads Rule!!!!!!!!!! :-)


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      • Denisesewa@aol.com
        Just a suggestion An inexpencive way to experiment with board design might be to use Plywood, for example ,to create rocker simply cut two pieces half the
        Message 3 of 14 , Jul 4, 2002
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          Just a suggestion
          An inexpencive way to experiment with board design might be to use Plywood,
          for example ,to create rocker simply cut two pieces half the thickness you
          want to the out line you want , support both ends of the bottom piece with
          wood equal in thickness to the amount of rocker you want , apply glue to top
          surface and lay the second piece of ply on top, weight the center and put
          shims under the board to create the progression of the rocker, then clamp the
          whole thing as much as possible distributing the clamping pressure with
          scraps of wood above and below, not only will this produce the desired rocker
          but will also make plyywood extreemly rigid, the best inexpecive glue to use
          is "ProBond" made by Elmers ( believe it or not) it is imperviouse to water
          extreemly strong and expands as it dries to fill in voids and its availible
          at home depot and hardware stores.
          I think once a good design is acheived it would be easy to make a light
          wieght semi hollow version by using 4mm ply skins with a frame work between
          using cedar or better yet spruce, all of these will take a shape by bending
          easily and once bonded together become rigid.( I would probably use epoxy for
          this one but the probond is just about as good)
          Having built several sailboats , three kayaks and a cedar strip-plank canoe
          I have found these methods to work well and can see no reason they wouldnt
          work just as well for kitesurfing boards.
          Anyway, food for thought.
          By the way,
          I finally decided on Concept air kites and purchased two "new waves" sizes, 6
          and 9 meters, should be arriving next week, I cant wait to get wet!! :)
          Denise

          for a bit more about me go to >>>>>>
          http://hometown.aol.com/denisesewa/index.html


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • kite_hoser
          Hi again, just a tad confused about this rail. I saw a brunoti the other day up close and the rail was on the bottom (top down edge). Is the reason for this
          Message 4 of 14 , Jul 6, 2002
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            Hi again,
            just a tad confused about this rail. I saw a brunoti the other day
            up close and the rail was on the bottom (top down edge). Is the
            reason for this because the board has rocker and/or the board is so
            much thinner? Also, one of the reason's the woody board was made so
            thick, is that there was ample room to carve(sand) rocker at both
            ends. So our board (even though it's hard to tell with the pictures
            i posted) does have rocker. So since it's a woody should the rail
            still be in the center or if it has ample rocker should it be more
            like a manufactured board with rail on the bottom? Don't know if
            this makes any sense, any advice would be muchly appreciated. Thanks
            Good winds from Canada :-)

            > Without board rocker, a top-down edge (rail at the bottom) is
            harder to
            > plane and getting out of the "submarine state".
            >
            > Neutral edge (rail at the middle) is probably a better start for
            > beginner on woody board.
            >
            > Once you get efficient at edging and going upwind, go bottom-up edge
            > (rail at the top of the board). It's very loose, fast and lively;
            you
            > can land your jump side-way like magic (no other kiteboard I know -
            > including snowboard - can land jump side way like this).
            >
            > Hung.
          • hink_trent
            ... So since it s a woody should the rail ... Thanks ... All of the manufactured wake-style boards I have seen have the edge on the bottom of the board and a
            Message 5 of 14 , Jul 6, 2002
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              --- In ksurfschool@y..., "kite_hoser" <sir_goth@h...> wrote:
              > Hi again,
              > just a tad confused about this rail. I saw a brunoti the other day
              > up close and the rail was on the bottom (top down edge).

              So since it's a woody should the rail
              > still be in the center or if it has ample rocker should it be more
              > like a manufactured board with rail on the bottom? Don't know if
              > this makes any sense, any advice would be muchly appreciated.
              Thanks
              > Good winds from Canada :-)
              >

              All of the manufactured wake-style boards I have seen have the edge
              on the bottom of the board and a curve into the top surface. on
              directionals and some twintips they put more of a curve on the bottom
              edge to get a looser ride because the fins are doing more of the work
              keeping the board on track (just my opinion).

              I think you should build another, larger version of your current
              board. I made my first board 5'5" x 18" wide x 3/4" thick (glass,ply
              and foam).

              I find that this large wide board takes much less power to ride than
              smaller boards because it planes with less power. for this reason I
              think it is also also is much more forgiving as long as you are not
              overpowered. when I find myself getting overpowered on my large
              board, I can just go in and grab a smaller board without changing
              kites.
            • Kitepower
              Have a look at as many of the latest tray/wake style boards, as you can. You will notice one common theme, thin rails with the edge at the bottom surface of
              Message 6 of 14 , Jul 6, 2002
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                Have a look at as many of the latest tray/wake style boards, as you can. You will notice one common theme, thin rails with the edge at the bottom surface of the board. I'm not sure why Hung makes a point of being abe to land a jump sideways, but you can do that if you want to with this rail shape anyway, but you stand a greater chance of losing control and having the board slide out from under you if you do not get an edge/end in first.
                Kiteboarding is about jumping for most people, a sharp thin rail helps the board bite and load up, essential for getting maximum air.
                The rails are rounder on surfboards to make them transition from one turn to another in a more flowing style suited to wave riding, when the board is powered by the wave only.
                Kiteboarding is very much like wakeboarding behind a boat, except you need an edge, to exert and maintain or vary, as conditions and the tricks/jumping you are doing dictate, tension on the kites lines (not against the pull of the boat, which is constant), and to enable you to maintain that edge/line tension in well powered up conditions, which will give you max boost into the air (and upwind ability).
                You use the sharp cutting edges/rails and their ability to load the lines of your kite, in a synchronised way to get air and then you control your body into the air, maintaining the your orientation to a safe landing, all while using the contollability of the kite to land soft and smooth, immediately upon landing you use those sharp rails/edges to exert tension back on your kite lines, so you are back in control.
                Kiteboarding is a synergy between the riders mind and emotions/spirit, and the kite, its lines, and the edge-ability of the board.
                Above all have fun!
                Cya and
                Goodwinds
                Steve McCormack
                http://www.kitepower.com.au
                open 7 days, every week.

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: kite_hoser
                To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2002 12:32 AM
                Subject: [ksurfschool] Re: Woody Board


                Hi again,
                just a tad confused about this rail. I saw a brunoti the other day
                up close and the rail was on the bottom (top down edge). Is the
                reason for this because the board has rocker and/or the board is so
                much thinner? Also, one of the reason's the woody board was made so
                thick, is that there was ample room to carve(sand) rocker at both
                ends. So our board (even though it's hard to tell with the pictures
                i posted) does have rocker. So since it's a woody should the rail
                still be in the center or if it has ample rocker should it be more
                like a manufactured board with rail on the bottom? Don't know if
                this makes any sense, any advice would be muchly appreciated. Thanks
                Good winds from Canada :-)

                > Without board rocker, a top-down edge (rail at the bottom) is
                harder to
                > plane and getting out of the "submarine state".
                >
                > Neutral edge (rail at the middle) is probably a better start for
                > beginner on woody board.
                >
                > Once you get efficient at edging and going upwind, go bottom-up edge
                > (rail at the top of the board). It's very loose, fast and lively;
                you
                > can land your jump side-way like magic (no other kiteboard I know -
                > including snowboard - can land jump side way like this).
                >
                > Hung.



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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • ex_cpe
                ... you can. You will notice one common theme, thin rails with the edge at the bottom surface of the board. I m not sure why Hung makes a point of being abe to
                Message 7 of 14 , Jul 7, 2002
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                  --- In ksurfschool@y..., "Kitepower" <sydney@k...> wrote:
                  > Have a look at as many of the latest tray/wake style boards, as
                  you can. You will notice one common theme, thin rails with the
                  edge at the bottom surface of the board. I'm not sure why Hung
                  makes a point of being abe to land a jump sideways, but you can
                  do that if you want to with this rail shape anyway, but you stand a
                  greater chance of losing control and having the board slide out
                  from under you if you do not get an edge/end in first.
                  > Kiteboarding is about jumping for most people, a sharp thin
                  rail helps the board bite and load up, essential for getting
                  maximum air.
                  > The rails are rounder on surfboards to make them transition
                  from one turn to another in a more flowing style suited to wave
                  riding, when the board is powered by the wave only.
                  > Kiteboarding is very much like wakeboarding behind a boat,
                  except you need an edge, to exert and maintain or vary, as
                  conditions and the tricks/jumping you are doing dictate, tension
                  on the kites lines (not against the pull of the boat, which is
                  constant), and to enable you to maintain that edge/line tension in
                  well powered up conditions, which will give you max boost into
                  the air (and upwind ability).
                  > You use the sharp cutting edges/rails and their ability to load
                  the lines of your kite, in a synchronised way to get air and then
                  you control your body into the air, maintaining the your orientation
                  to a safe landing, all while using the contollability of the kite to
                  land soft and smooth, immediately upon landing you use those
                  sharp rails/edges to exert tension back on your kite lines, so you
                  are back in control.
                  > Kiteboarding is a synergy between the riders mind and
                  emotions/spirit, and the kite, its lines, and the edge-ability of the
                  board.
                  > Above all have fun!
                  > Cya and
                  > Goodwinds
                  > Steve McCormack

                  Well stated! You compacted more in those few paragraphs than
                  three how-to vids I've seen. ....perhaps it's time to buy some
                  16MM, eh?

                  Jim
                • kite_hoser
                  Thanks so much for all the opinions. I am starting a new larger/thinner board today. It should work much better. Will keep you all posted as to the results
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jul 7, 2002
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                    Thanks so much for all the opinions. I am starting a new
                    larger/thinner board today. It should work much better. Will keep
                    you all posted as to the results (or keep bugging you all with more
                    questions) :-). Thanks again and Good Winds from Canada.
                  • Kitepower
                    Thanks Jim When I re-read that there are few words that I would add here and there, but real synergy is what kiteboarding is, I think that is why it just grabs
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jul 7, 2002
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                      Thanks Jim

                      When I re-read that there are few words that I would add here and there, but real synergy is what kiteboarding is, I think that is why it just grabs people and it changes their lives forever. Experiencing synergy between yourself and nature or with other people is one of life's finest things IMO, and money cannot buy it!! :-))

                      Due to an old war wound (motorcycle crash) I am increasingly unable to kiteboard, but my aim is to get a decent video camera and make instructional/promo, top rider vids, and stuff to make people laugh, look out for a character I've invented called "Keiff wiff da teef" aka "the God of ugly people".
                      Sorry in advance!! :-)
                      Cya and
                      Goodwinds
                      Steve McCormack
                      http://www.kitepower.com.au
                      open 7 days, every week.
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: ex_cpe
                      To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2002 9:19 PM
                      Subject: [ksurfschool] Re: Woody Board


                      --- In ksurfschool@y..., "Kitepower" <sydney@k...> wrote:
                      > Have a look at as many of the latest tray/wake style boards, as
                      you can. You will notice one common theme, thin rails with the
                      edge at the bottom surface of the board. I'm not sure why Hung
                      makes a point of being abe to land a jump sideways, but you can
                      do that if you want to with this rail shape anyway, but you stand a
                      greater chance of losing control and having the board slide out
                      from under you if you do not get an edge/end in first.
                      > Kiteboarding is about jumping for most people, a sharp thin
                      rail helps the board bite and load up, essential for getting
                      maximum air.
                      > The rails are rounder on surfboards to make them transition
                      from one turn to another in a more flowing style suited to wave
                      riding, when the board is powered by the wave only.
                      > Kiteboarding is very much like wakeboarding behind a boat,
                      except you need an edge, to exert and maintain or vary, as
                      conditions and the tricks/jumping you are doing dictate, tension
                      on the kites lines (not against the pull of the boat, which is
                      constant), and to enable you to maintain that edge/line tension in
                      well powered up conditions, which will give you max boost into
                      the air (and upwind ability).
                      > You use the sharp cutting edges/rails and their ability to load
                      the lines of your kite, in a synchronised way to get air and then
                      you control your body into the air, maintaining the your orientation
                      to a safe landing, all while using the contollability of the kite to
                      land soft and smooth, immediately upon landing you use those
                      sharp rails/edges to exert tension back on your kite lines, so you
                      are back in control.
                      > Kiteboarding is a synergy between the riders mind and
                      emotions/spirit, and the kite, its lines, and the edge-ability of the
                      board.
                      > Above all have fun!
                      > Cya and
                      > Goodwinds
                      > Steve McCormack

                      Well stated! You compacted more in those few paragraphs than
                      three how-to vids I've seen. ....perhaps it's time to buy some
                      16MM, eh?

                      Jim




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                      http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
                      to the most frequently asked questions.

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