Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [ksurfschool] Woody Board

Expand Messages
  • Hung Vu
    Cedar sounds like a very good wood for kiteboard... 1.7 thickness is too thick I think. Most kiteboards are thinner than 3/4 . Without board rocker, a
    Message 1 of 14 , Jul 4, 2002
    • 0 Attachment
      Cedar sounds like a very good wood for kiteboard...

      1.7" thickness is too thick I think. Most kiteboards are thinner than
      3/4".

      Without board rocker, a top-down edge (rail at the bottom) is harder to
      plan and getting out of the "submarine state".

      Neutral edge (rail at the middle) is probably a better start for
      beginner on woody board.

      Once you get efficient at edging and going upwind, go bottom-up edge
      (rail at the top of the board). It's very loose, fast and lively; you
      can land your jump side-way like magic (no other kiteboard I know -
      including snowboard - can land jump side way like this).

      P.S., C-Quad may not be the best kite for kitesurfing due to its
      variable power characteristics (however it's a very fast and probably
      one of the best kiteskiing kites though :-)

      P.P.S., Expect at least a few sessions before you can go upwind in
      kitesurfing.

      Hung.

      kite_hoser wrote:
      >
      > Hi,
      > A friend of mine made a Cedar bi-directional board as his first
      > board. We had it out last weekend in 20km/hr winds at Lake Erie.
      > Was the first time we tried to kitesurf although we've been kite
      > buggying for a year now. We got up on the board no problem first
      > time, planed ok but upwind was very hard. Did reaches of about 200
      > yards. Kite was an 8.5 cquad. The board lost it's planing when
      > trying to turn up wind and it would start to bog through the water
      > instead of planing. The edge is carved down from the top to a rail
      > on the bottom. Should the rail be in the center, or the top of the
      > board, or is the bottom rail the way to go? Also, can someone give
      > me some dimensions (length and width) of a board that would cut
      > upwind and plane a bit easier? This board is only 14.5" wide, about
      > 5' long and 1.7" thick Is it too small? Or is it lack of
      > experience? Thanks in advance.
      > Good Winds from Canada
      > P.S. Posted a few pics in the photo section of the board.
      >
      >
      > If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
      > http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
      > to the most frequently asked questions.
      >
      > To unsubscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
      > To subscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    • kite_hoser
      Thanks so much for the replies guys, I agree wholeheartedly that the board is too small. We thought the rails the way we made them would ve worked better but
      Message 2 of 14 , Jul 4, 2002
      • 0 Attachment
        Thanks so much for the replies guys, I agree wholeheartedly that the
        board is too small. We thought the rails the way we made them
        would've worked better but obviously not. You're right Hung about
        the "getting out of submarine stage". Hard to get it up on a plane
        again once it does this and also you both have the same views on the
        size of board. As for using cquads, well i know everyone will
        disagree but we spend alot of time buggying and skiing (land
        traction) and the cquads are amazing kites. We can all go right into
        the wind for large distances with these kites and I have a few foils
        that I could not get within' breathing distance of the upwind of the
        cquads. The foils luff and curl up, pop back open in the power zone
        when trying to go that far upwind. In gusts, these problems are even
        more exagerrated with foils. So, having a quiver of land kites and
        water specific kites is not at all cost feasable for us. The cquads
        like the water well enough. We launch from sandbar in the water
        where you can stand and then it's a matter of not crashing the kite
        out in deeper water. Exactly the same as using a land foil in the
        water which a lot of people do in our area and get along ok with
        there kites. The advantage we have on them though, is when they do
        crash in water their fun is over until they dry out there kites on
        shore again, which a cquad doesn't have to do. As for the power
        thing, it was unbelieveable. I think for our very first time (none
        of us 3 have any windsurfing or wakeboarding experience at all) we
        did fantastic with that tiny board. If we make another board it will
        be that much better, as well as some more practice and the cquads
        will (have) to work for us. We had pictures taken of us surfing last
        weekend so when i get copies i'll post them up to show how elite
        cquads can be even for new surfers. :-) But please don't think that
        i'm saying anyone can get on a cquad and surf. It's taken us many
        months of land traction activities to really learn our kites. If
        you're going to start from scratch with surfing, obviously the cquad
        would slow your learning curve down greatly because of the time it
        takes to learn these kites to get the proper depower, powering up and
        anti luffing technique happenning.
        Good winds from Canada and thanks for the help with the board input,
        muchly appreciated!!!!!
        Buggy Tyrant
        P.S. Cquads Rule!!!!!!!!!! :-)
      • Kitepower
        Good stuff! C-Quads can be used on the water as I said, Kane Hartill who used to be sponsored by Peter Lynn used them in the early days of kiteboarding 2 years
        Message 3 of 14 , Jul 4, 2002
        • 0 Attachment
          Good stuff! C-Quads can be used on the water as I said, Kane Hartill who
          used to be sponsored by Peter Lynn used them in the early days of
          kiteboarding 2 years ago, he could do amazing stuff on them, and he very
          rarely put them into the water.
          I do not know what type of foils your friends have but there are plenty that
          can match a c-quad now, and in the right hands, they can be re-launched off
          the water, if you are quick, but even when wet a modern foil will fly and
          will dry out quite quickly.
          Each to their own, but no kite absolutely rules!! :-))
          Cya and
          Goodwinds
          Steve McCormack
          http://www.kitepower.com.au
          mailto:sydney@...
          Open 7 days
          126 Beach St, Coogee, Sydney, Australia 2034
          Phone +61293157894

          -----Original Message-----
          From: kite_hoser [mailto:sir_goth@...]
          Sent: 05 July, 2002 3:07 PM
          To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [ksurfschool] Re: Woody Board


          Thanks so much for the replies guys, I agree wholeheartedly that the
          board is too small. We thought the rails the way we made them
          would've worked better but obviously not. You're right Hung about
          the "getting out of submarine stage". Hard to get it up on a plane
          again once it does this and also you both have the same views on the
          size of board. As for using cquads, well i know everyone will
          disagree but we spend alot of time buggying and skiing (land
          traction) and the cquads are amazing kites. We can all go right into
          the wind for large distances with these kites and I have a few foils
          that I could not get within' breathing distance of the upwind of the
          cquads. The foils luff and curl up, pop back open in the power zone
          when trying to go that far upwind. In gusts, these problems are even
          more exagerrated with foils. So, having a quiver of land kites and
          water specific kites is not at all cost feasable for us. The cquads
          like the water well enough. We launch from sandbar in the water
          where you can stand and then it's a matter of not crashing the kite
          out in deeper water. Exactly the same as using a land foil in the
          water which a lot of people do in our area and get along ok with
          there kites. The advantage we have on them though, is when they do
          crash in water their fun is over until they dry out there kites on
          shore again, which a cquad doesn't have to do. As for the power
          thing, it was unbelieveable. I think for our very first time (none
          of us 3 have any windsurfing or wakeboarding experience at all) we
          did fantastic with that tiny board. If we make another board it will
          be that much better, as well as some more practice and the cquads
          will (have) to work for us. We had pictures taken of us surfing last
          weekend so when i get copies i'll post them up to show how elite
          cquads can be even for new surfers. :-) But please don't think that
          i'm saying anyone can get on a cquad and surf. It's taken us many
          months of land traction activities to really learn our kites. If
          you're going to start from scratch with surfing, obviously the cquad
          would slow your learning curve down greatly because of the time it
          takes to learn these kites to get the proper depower, powering up and
          anti luffing technique happenning.
          Good winds from Canada and thanks for the help with the board input,
          muchly appreciated!!!!!
          Buggy Tyrant
          P.S. Cquads Rule!!!!!!!!!! :-)


          Yahoo! Groups Sponsor


          If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
          http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
          to the most frequently asked questions.

          To unsubscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
          To subscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com


          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Denisesewa@aol.com
          Just a suggestion An inexpencive way to experiment with board design might be to use Plywood, for example ,to create rocker simply cut two pieces half the
          Message 4 of 14 , Jul 4, 2002
          • 0 Attachment
            Just a suggestion
            An inexpencive way to experiment with board design might be to use Plywood,
            for example ,to create rocker simply cut two pieces half the thickness you
            want to the out line you want , support both ends of the bottom piece with
            wood equal in thickness to the amount of rocker you want , apply glue to top
            surface and lay the second piece of ply on top, weight the center and put
            shims under the board to create the progression of the rocker, then clamp the
            whole thing as much as possible distributing the clamping pressure with
            scraps of wood above and below, not only will this produce the desired rocker
            but will also make plyywood extreemly rigid, the best inexpecive glue to use
            is "ProBond" made by Elmers ( believe it or not) it is imperviouse to water
            extreemly strong and expands as it dries to fill in voids and its availible
            at home depot and hardware stores.
            I think once a good design is acheived it would be easy to make a light
            wieght semi hollow version by using 4mm ply skins with a frame work between
            using cedar or better yet spruce, all of these will take a shape by bending
            easily and once bonded together become rigid.( I would probably use epoxy for
            this one but the probond is just about as good)
            Having built several sailboats , three kayaks and a cedar strip-plank canoe
            I have found these methods to work well and can see no reason they wouldnt
            work just as well for kitesurfing boards.
            Anyway, food for thought.
            By the way,
            I finally decided on Concept air kites and purchased two "new waves" sizes, 6
            and 9 meters, should be arriving next week, I cant wait to get wet!! :)
            Denise

            for a bit more about me go to >>>>>>
            http://hometown.aol.com/denisesewa/index.html


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • kite_hoser
            Hi again, just a tad confused about this rail. I saw a brunoti the other day up close and the rail was on the bottom (top down edge). Is the reason for this
            Message 5 of 14 , Jul 6, 2002
            • 0 Attachment
              Hi again,
              just a tad confused about this rail. I saw a brunoti the other day
              up close and the rail was on the bottom (top down edge). Is the
              reason for this because the board has rocker and/or the board is so
              much thinner? Also, one of the reason's the woody board was made so
              thick, is that there was ample room to carve(sand) rocker at both
              ends. So our board (even though it's hard to tell with the pictures
              i posted) does have rocker. So since it's a woody should the rail
              still be in the center or if it has ample rocker should it be more
              like a manufactured board with rail on the bottom? Don't know if
              this makes any sense, any advice would be muchly appreciated. Thanks
              Good winds from Canada :-)

              > Without board rocker, a top-down edge (rail at the bottom) is
              harder to
              > plane and getting out of the "submarine state".
              >
              > Neutral edge (rail at the middle) is probably a better start for
              > beginner on woody board.
              >
              > Once you get efficient at edging and going upwind, go bottom-up edge
              > (rail at the top of the board). It's very loose, fast and lively;
              you
              > can land your jump side-way like magic (no other kiteboard I know -
              > including snowboard - can land jump side way like this).
              >
              > Hung.
            • hink_trent
              ... So since it s a woody should the rail ... Thanks ... All of the manufactured wake-style boards I have seen have the edge on the bottom of the board and a
              Message 6 of 14 , Jul 6, 2002
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In ksurfschool@y..., "kite_hoser" <sir_goth@h...> wrote:
                > Hi again,
                > just a tad confused about this rail. I saw a brunoti the other day
                > up close and the rail was on the bottom (top down edge).

                So since it's a woody should the rail
                > still be in the center or if it has ample rocker should it be more
                > like a manufactured board with rail on the bottom? Don't know if
                > this makes any sense, any advice would be muchly appreciated.
                Thanks
                > Good winds from Canada :-)
                >

                All of the manufactured wake-style boards I have seen have the edge
                on the bottom of the board and a curve into the top surface. on
                directionals and some twintips they put more of a curve on the bottom
                edge to get a looser ride because the fins are doing more of the work
                keeping the board on track (just my opinion).

                I think you should build another, larger version of your current
                board. I made my first board 5'5" x 18" wide x 3/4" thick (glass,ply
                and foam).

                I find that this large wide board takes much less power to ride than
                smaller boards because it planes with less power. for this reason I
                think it is also also is much more forgiving as long as you are not
                overpowered. when I find myself getting overpowered on my large
                board, I can just go in and grab a smaller board without changing
                kites.
              • Kitepower
                Have a look at as many of the latest tray/wake style boards, as you can. You will notice one common theme, thin rails with the edge at the bottom surface of
                Message 7 of 14 , Jul 6, 2002
                • 0 Attachment
                  Have a look at as many of the latest tray/wake style boards, as you can. You will notice one common theme, thin rails with the edge at the bottom surface of the board. I'm not sure why Hung makes a point of being abe to land a jump sideways, but you can do that if you want to with this rail shape anyway, but you stand a greater chance of losing control and having the board slide out from under you if you do not get an edge/end in first.
                  Kiteboarding is about jumping for most people, a sharp thin rail helps the board bite and load up, essential for getting maximum air.
                  The rails are rounder on surfboards to make them transition from one turn to another in a more flowing style suited to wave riding, when the board is powered by the wave only.
                  Kiteboarding is very much like wakeboarding behind a boat, except you need an edge, to exert and maintain or vary, as conditions and the tricks/jumping you are doing dictate, tension on the kites lines (not against the pull of the boat, which is constant), and to enable you to maintain that edge/line tension in well powered up conditions, which will give you max boost into the air (and upwind ability).
                  You use the sharp cutting edges/rails and their ability to load the lines of your kite, in a synchronised way to get air and then you control your body into the air, maintaining the your orientation to a safe landing, all while using the contollability of the kite to land soft and smooth, immediately upon landing you use those sharp rails/edges to exert tension back on your kite lines, so you are back in control.
                  Kiteboarding is a synergy between the riders mind and emotions/spirit, and the kite, its lines, and the edge-ability of the board.
                  Above all have fun!
                  Cya and
                  Goodwinds
                  Steve McCormack
                  http://www.kitepower.com.au
                  open 7 days, every week.

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: kite_hoser
                  To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2002 12:32 AM
                  Subject: [ksurfschool] Re: Woody Board


                  Hi again,
                  just a tad confused about this rail. I saw a brunoti the other day
                  up close and the rail was on the bottom (top down edge). Is the
                  reason for this because the board has rocker and/or the board is so
                  much thinner? Also, one of the reason's the woody board was made so
                  thick, is that there was ample room to carve(sand) rocker at both
                  ends. So our board (even though it's hard to tell with the pictures
                  i posted) does have rocker. So since it's a woody should the rail
                  still be in the center or if it has ample rocker should it be more
                  like a manufactured board with rail on the bottom? Don't know if
                  this makes any sense, any advice would be muchly appreciated. Thanks
                  Good winds from Canada :-)

                  > Without board rocker, a top-down edge (rail at the bottom) is
                  harder to
                  > plane and getting out of the "submarine state".
                  >
                  > Neutral edge (rail at the middle) is probably a better start for
                  > beginner on woody board.
                  >
                  > Once you get efficient at edging and going upwind, go bottom-up edge
                  > (rail at the top of the board). It's very loose, fast and lively;
                  you
                  > can land your jump side-way like magic (no other kiteboard I know -
                  > including snowboard - can land jump side way like this).
                  >
                  > Hung.



                  Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                  ADVERTISEMENT



                  If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
                  http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
                  to the most frequently asked questions.

                  To unsubscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                  To subscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com


                  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • ex_cpe
                  ... you can. You will notice one common theme, thin rails with the edge at the bottom surface of the board. I m not sure why Hung makes a point of being abe to
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jul 7, 2002
                  • 0 Attachment
                    --- In ksurfschool@y..., "Kitepower" <sydney@k...> wrote:
                    > Have a look at as many of the latest tray/wake style boards, as
                    you can. You will notice one common theme, thin rails with the
                    edge at the bottom surface of the board. I'm not sure why Hung
                    makes a point of being abe to land a jump sideways, but you can
                    do that if you want to with this rail shape anyway, but you stand a
                    greater chance of losing control and having the board slide out
                    from under you if you do not get an edge/end in first.
                    > Kiteboarding is about jumping for most people, a sharp thin
                    rail helps the board bite and load up, essential for getting
                    maximum air.
                    > The rails are rounder on surfboards to make them transition
                    from one turn to another in a more flowing style suited to wave
                    riding, when the board is powered by the wave only.
                    > Kiteboarding is very much like wakeboarding behind a boat,
                    except you need an edge, to exert and maintain or vary, as
                    conditions and the tricks/jumping you are doing dictate, tension
                    on the kites lines (not against the pull of the boat, which is
                    constant), and to enable you to maintain that edge/line tension in
                    well powered up conditions, which will give you max boost into
                    the air (and upwind ability).
                    > You use the sharp cutting edges/rails and their ability to load
                    the lines of your kite, in a synchronised way to get air and then
                    you control your body into the air, maintaining the your orientation
                    to a safe landing, all while using the contollability of the kite to
                    land soft and smooth, immediately upon landing you use those
                    sharp rails/edges to exert tension back on your kite lines, so you
                    are back in control.
                    > Kiteboarding is a synergy between the riders mind and
                    emotions/spirit, and the kite, its lines, and the edge-ability of the
                    board.
                    > Above all have fun!
                    > Cya and
                    > Goodwinds
                    > Steve McCormack

                    Well stated! You compacted more in those few paragraphs than
                    three how-to vids I've seen. ....perhaps it's time to buy some
                    16MM, eh?

                    Jim
                  • kite_hoser
                    Thanks so much for all the opinions. I am starting a new larger/thinner board today. It should work much better. Will keep you all posted as to the results
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jul 7, 2002
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Thanks so much for all the opinions. I am starting a new
                      larger/thinner board today. It should work much better. Will keep
                      you all posted as to the results (or keep bugging you all with more
                      questions) :-). Thanks again and Good Winds from Canada.
                    • Kitepower
                      Thanks Jim When I re-read that there are few words that I would add here and there, but real synergy is what kiteboarding is, I think that is why it just grabs
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jul 7, 2002
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Thanks Jim

                        When I re-read that there are few words that I would add here and there, but real synergy is what kiteboarding is, I think that is why it just grabs people and it changes their lives forever. Experiencing synergy between yourself and nature or with other people is one of life's finest things IMO, and money cannot buy it!! :-))

                        Due to an old war wound (motorcycle crash) I am increasingly unable to kiteboard, but my aim is to get a decent video camera and make instructional/promo, top rider vids, and stuff to make people laugh, look out for a character I've invented called "Keiff wiff da teef" aka "the God of ugly people".
                        Sorry in advance!! :-)
                        Cya and
                        Goodwinds
                        Steve McCormack
                        http://www.kitepower.com.au
                        open 7 days, every week.
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: ex_cpe
                        To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2002 9:19 PM
                        Subject: [ksurfschool] Re: Woody Board


                        --- In ksurfschool@y..., "Kitepower" <sydney@k...> wrote:
                        > Have a look at as many of the latest tray/wake style boards, as
                        you can. You will notice one common theme, thin rails with the
                        edge at the bottom surface of the board. I'm not sure why Hung
                        makes a point of being abe to land a jump sideways, but you can
                        do that if you want to with this rail shape anyway, but you stand a
                        greater chance of losing control and having the board slide out
                        from under you if you do not get an edge/end in first.
                        > Kiteboarding is about jumping for most people, a sharp thin
                        rail helps the board bite and load up, essential for getting
                        maximum air.
                        > The rails are rounder on surfboards to make them transition
                        from one turn to another in a more flowing style suited to wave
                        riding, when the board is powered by the wave only.
                        > Kiteboarding is very much like wakeboarding behind a boat,
                        except you need an edge, to exert and maintain or vary, as
                        conditions and the tricks/jumping you are doing dictate, tension
                        on the kites lines (not against the pull of the boat, which is
                        constant), and to enable you to maintain that edge/line tension in
                        well powered up conditions, which will give you max boost into
                        the air (and upwind ability).
                        > You use the sharp cutting edges/rails and their ability to load
                        the lines of your kite, in a synchronised way to get air and then
                        you control your body into the air, maintaining the your orientation
                        to a safe landing, all while using the contollability of the kite to
                        land soft and smooth, immediately upon landing you use those
                        sharp rails/edges to exert tension back on your kite lines, so you
                        are back in control.
                        > Kiteboarding is a synergy between the riders mind and
                        emotions/spirit, and the kite, its lines, and the edge-ability of the
                        board.
                        > Above all have fun!
                        > Cya and
                        > Goodwinds
                        > Steve McCormack

                        Well stated! You compacted more in those few paragraphs than
                        three how-to vids I've seen. ....perhaps it's time to buy some
                        16MM, eh?

                        Jim




                        If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
                        http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
                        to the most frequently asked questions.

                        To unsubscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                        To subscribe, please send an email to ksurfschool-subscribe@egroups.com


                        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.