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[ksurfschool] Re: Kite size?

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  • Dave Raue
    ... From: To: Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 5:10 AM Subject: [ksurfschool] Kite size? ... etc. ... nice
    Message 1 of 13 , Jan 7, 2000
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      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <Martyn_Gilson-1@...>
      To: <ksurfschool@egroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 5:10 AM
      Subject: [ksurfschool] Kite size?


      > Hi,
      > I am very new to Kitesurfing but I can windsurf, carve gybes, waterstarts
      etc.
      > so I understand the 'wind'...
      > I recently had a go on my brothers FOne 6.5m kite and thought it was a
      nice
      > sail. I have the opportunity to purchase a Naish kite and I would like
      some
      > advice on what size to buy.

      Where do you live and what's the wind like? I'll risk flames by making a
      broad generalization: IMHO the inflatables are best suited to high wind
      areas. Reason: they fly like crap and need the wind to stay in the air.
      Foils work way better in lower wind and the 4-liners are way easier to
      control. There's also a lot of propaganda out there that "inflatables are
      easier to learn," "better suited to beginners" etc. I think it's a lot of
      crap. This means that a kiteschool can get you out in a day or 2. But
      don't think you'll really be a good flier. Take the time to really learn to
      fly.

      > Naish make a 5m and a 7 m and nothing in between. I am 85 kg, (OK after
      > Christmas possible 88kg) and my brother who is also learning, recommends
      the 7m
      > Naish "because it is not as powerful as his Fone 6.5m" (my brother is
      about
      > 105kgs and a better widsurfer).

      As far as the Naish, unless you live in an nuclear wind area go for the
      bigger one. Accept that you'll end up with several kites, the issue is just
      where to start. Your brother4's right, the 7m Naish is about like a 5m
      foil, which isn't so big.

      > Naish quote that the wind rages for both sails are similar; 5m 12-25; 7m
      10-20
      > knots (for a 80kg person). I have my reservations on a 7m sail especially
      after
      > reading kite school information (which I think is great). It seems
      obvious that
      > it is better to be underpowered and develop your own power by making the
      kite
      > fly faster, as explained by sine waves, rather than holding on for your
      life and
      > being dragged down wind 50m each fall.

      Being underpowered makes things way harder to learn. There's a limit to
      how much power you can generate.

      > It seems that a smaller sail is more versatile because it is faster,
      therefore
      > more powerful in a bigger wind range.

      No - a small kite is useless in low winds. Again - what are prevailing
      conditions where ever you are?

      Hope this helped a little,

      Dave
    • Martyn_Gilson-1@sbphrd.com
      Hi Dave, I live in the UK where there are crystal clear, warm blue water, beautifully clean 6 foot faces and a constant force 2 in the morning, picking up to a
      Message 2 of 13 , Jan 10, 2000
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        Hi Dave,

        I live in the UK where there are crystal clear, warm blue water, beautifully
        clean 6 foot faces and a constant force 2 in the morning, picking up to a force
        5 each and every afternoon. I wish......

        I am now living near the east coast but being a small island, the south coast
        (which is nice) is pretty near for a weekend. The only way to explain the
        conditions is unpredictable and it is purely a case of watching the weather
        forecast and hoping.

        The only reason why I was recommended a inflatable is that it can be relaunched
        easily, it is easy to manage, (no canopy) and, I was told, easy to control. I
        would imagine that being a learner I would be ditching the kite in the sea quite
        often but there are people that say they rarely crashed it even as learners.

        It seems to me that it is purely a matter of preference and of conditions. I am
        getting a great deal on a Naish, (friend of a windsurf shop owner), and I will
        go for the 7m kite. I do accept that I will need a smaller/different kite in
        the future but, as you mention, not until I can fly the kite well in low winds.

        I really appreciate your advice and I am sure there will be a few more questions
        coming your way. I hope to get the kite by next weekend and visit my brother in
        Wales to give it the first go. Judging by the weather today, I may have to
        break the ice before I get in! Why wasn't I born in a hot country?!

        Cheers
        Martyn





        theraves@... on 07-Jan-2000 23:50



        Please respond to ksurfschool@egroups.com

        To: ksurfschool
        cc: (bcc: Martyn Gilson-1/DEV/PHRD/SB_PLC)
        Subject: [ksurfschool] Re: Kite size?




        ----- Original Message -----
        From: <Martyn_Gilson-1@...>
        To: <ksurfschool@egroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 5:10 AM
        Subject: [ksurfschool] Kite size?


        > Hi,
        > I am very new to Kitesurfing but I can windsurf, carve gybes, waterstarts
        etc.
        > so I understand the 'wind'...
        > I recently had a go on my brothers FOne 6.5m kite and thought it was a
        nice
        > sail. I have the opportunity to purchase a Naish kite and I would like
        some
        > advice on what size to buy.

        Where do you live and what's the wind like? I'll risk flames by making a
        broad generalization: IMHO the inflatables are best suited to high wind
        areas. Reason: they fly like crap and need the wind to stay in the air.
        Foils work way better in lower wind and the 4-liners are way easier to
        control. There's also a lot of propaganda out there that "inflatables are
        easier to learn," "better suited to beginners" etc. I think it's a lot of
        crap. This means that a kiteschool can get you out in a day or 2. But
        don't think you'll really be a good flier. Take the time to really learn to
        fly.

        > Naish make a 5m and a 7 m and nothing in between. I am 85 kg, (OK after
        > Christmas possible 88kg) and my brother who is also learning, recommends
        the 7m
        > Naish "because it is not as powerful as his Fone 6.5m" (my brother is
        about
        > 105kgs and a better widsurfer).

        As far as the Naish, unless you live in an nuclear wind area go for the
        bigger one. Accept that you'll end up with several kites, the issue is just
        where to start. Your brother4's right, the 7m Naish is about like a 5m
        foil, which isn't so big.

        > Naish quote that the wind rages for both sails are similar; 5m 12-25; 7m
        10-20
        > knots (for a 80kg person). I have my reservations on a 7m sail especially
        after
        > reading kite school information (which I think is great). It seems
        obvious that
        > it is better to be underpowered and develop your own power by making the
        kite
        > fly faster, as explained by sine waves, rather than holding on for your
        life and
        > being dragged down wind 50m each fall.

        Being underpowered makes things way harder to learn. There's a limit to
        how much power you can generate.

        > It seems that a smaller sail is more versatile because it is faster,
        therefore
        > more powerful in a bigger wind range.

        No - a small kite is useless in low winds. Again - what are prevailing
        conditions where ever you are?

        Hope this helped a little,

        Dave


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      • Dave Raue
        Makes a lot of sense. The beauty of these groups is that you can easily consider all the angles before diving in (no pun!) and understand the issues before
        Message 3 of 13 , Jan 10, 2000
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          Makes a lot of sense. The beauty of these groups is that you can easily
          consider all the angles before diving in (no pun!) and understand the issues
          before making a decision. Good flying!

          Dave

          ps- this time of year I crave warmth too. Southern New England sucks in
          winter!
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: <Martyn_Gilson-1@...>
          To: <ksurfschool@egroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, January 10, 2000 4:51 AM
          Subject: [ksurfschool] Re: Kite size?


          > Hi Dave,
          >
          > I live in the UK where there are crystal clear, warm blue water,
          beautifully
          > clean 6 foot faces and a constant force 2 in the morning, picking up to a
          force
          > 5 each and every afternoon. I wish......
          >
          > I am now living near the east coast but being a small island, the south
          coast
          > (which is nice) is pretty near for a weekend. The only way to explain the
          > conditions is unpredictable and it is purely a case of watching the
          weather
          > forecast and hoping.
          >
          > The only reason why I was recommended a inflatable is that it can be
          relaunched
          > easily, it is easy to manage, (no canopy) and, I was told, easy to
          control. I
          > would imagine that being a learner I would be ditching the kite in the sea
          quite
          > often but there are people that say they rarely crashed it even as
          learners.
          >
          > It seems to me that it is purely a matter of preference and of conditions.
          I am
          > getting a great deal on a Naish, (friend of a windsurf shop owner), and I
          will
          > go for the 7m kite. I do accept that I will need a smaller/different kite
          in
          > the future but, as you mention, not until I can fly the kite well in low
          winds.
          >
          > I really appreciate your advice and I am sure there will be a few more
          questions
          > coming your way. I hope to get the kite by next weekend and visit my
          brother in
          > Wales to give it the first go. Judging by the weather today, I may have
          to
          > break the ice before I get in! Why wasn't I born in a hot country?!
          >
          > Cheers
          > Martyn
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > theraves@... on 07-Jan-2000 23:50
          >
          >
          >
          > Please respond to ksurfschool@egroups.com
          >
          > To: ksurfschool
          > cc: (bcc: Martyn Gilson-1/DEV/PHRD/SB_PLC)
          > Subject: [ksurfschool] Re: Kite size?
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: <Martyn_Gilson-1@...>
          > To: <ksurfschool@egroups.com>
          > Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 5:10 AM
          > Subject: [ksurfschool] Kite size?
          >
          >
          > > Hi,
          > > I am very new to Kitesurfing but I can windsurf, carve gybes,
          waterstarts
          > etc.
          > > so I understand the 'wind'...
          > > I recently had a go on my brothers FOne 6.5m kite and thought it was a
          > nice
          > > sail. I have the opportunity to purchase a Naish kite and I would like
          > some
          > > advice on what size to buy.
          >
          > Where do you live and what's the wind like? I'll risk flames by making a
          > broad generalization: IMHO the inflatables are best suited to high wind
          > areas. Reason: they fly like crap and need the wind to stay in the air.
          > Foils work way better in lower wind and the 4-liners are way easier to
          > control. There's also a lot of propaganda out there that "inflatables are
          > easier to learn," "better suited to beginners" etc. I think it's a lot of
          > crap. This means that a kiteschool can get you out in a day or 2. But
          > don't think you'll really be a good flier. Take the time to really learn
          to
          > fly.
          >
          > > Naish make a 5m and a 7 m and nothing in between. I am 85 kg, (OK after
          > > Christmas possible 88kg) and my brother who is also learning, recommends
          > the 7m
          > > Naish "because it is not as powerful as his Fone 6.5m" (my brother is
          > about
          > > 105kgs and a better widsurfer).
          >
          > As far as the Naish, unless you live in an nuclear wind area go for the
          > bigger one. Accept that you'll end up with several kites, the issue is
          just
          > where to start. Your brother4's right, the 7m Naish is about like a 5m
          > foil, which isn't so big.
          >
          > > Naish quote that the wind rages for both sails are similar; 5m 12-25; 7m
          > 10-20
          > > knots (for a 80kg person). I have my reservations on a 7m sail
          especially
          > after
          > > reading kite school information (which I think is great). It seems
          > obvious that
          > > it is better to be underpowered and develop your own power by making the
          > kite
          > > fly faster, as explained by sine waves, rather than holding on for your
          > life and
          > > being dragged down wind 50m each fall.
          >
          > Being underpowered makes things way harder to learn. There's a limit to
          > how much power you can generate.
          >
          > > It seems that a smaller sail is more versatile because it is faster,
          > therefore
          > > more powerful in a bigger wind range.
          >
          > No - a small kite is useless in low winds. Again - what are prevailing
          > conditions where ever you are?
          >
          > Hope this helped a little,
          >
          > Dave
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          > Looking for educational tools for your kids?
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          > http://click.egroups.com/1/645/5/_/60094/_/947289184/
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          > -- http://www.egroups.com/vote?listname=ksurfschool&m=1
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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        • Hung Vu
          ... Winter is not that bad! Try some winter sport like snowboarding and you will never ever longing for summer again. Or try kite snowskiing!!! If you don t
          Message 4 of 13 , Jan 10, 2000
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            Dave Raue wrote:
            > ps- this time of year I crave warmth too. Southern New England sucks in
            > winter!

            Winter is not that bad! Try some winter sport like snowboarding and you
            will never ever longing for summer again.

            Or try kite snowskiing!!!

            If you don't have enough snow, import some from Canada ;-)

            Hung.
          • Dave Raue
            Thanks for the kind thoughts, but!!!!!!! We no longer have winter! haven t had for 3 or 4 years! It s too cold for water sports to be pleasant and too warm
            Message 5 of 13 , Jan 11, 2000
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              Thanks for the kind thoughts, but!!!!!!! We no longer have winter! haven't
              had for 3 or 4 years! It's too cold for water sports to be pleasant and too
              warm for snow and ice. I've got the spring bulbs and flowers coming up!
              EERRGGFRGGHH!
              Dave
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Hung Vu <hungvu@...>
              To: <ksurfschool@egroups.com>
              Sent: Monday, January 10, 2000 10:28 PM
              Subject: [ksurfschool] Re: Kite size?


              > Dave Raue wrote:
              > > ps- this time of year I crave warmth too. Southern New England sucks in
              > > winter!
              >
              > Winter is not that bad! Try some winter sport like snowboarding and you
              > will never ever longing for summer again.
              >
              > Or try kite snowskiing!!!
              >
              > If you don't have enough snow, import some from Canada ;-)
              >
              > Hung.
              >
              > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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              >
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              >
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            • Colin Gowland
              Better get a mountainboard! www.mountainboard.com I think... ... From: Dave Raue To: Sent: Tuesday, January
              Message 6 of 13 , Jan 11, 2000
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                Better get a mountainboard! www.mountainboard.com I think...

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Dave Raue <theraves@...>
                To: <ksurfschool@egroups.com>
                Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2000 6:02 PM
                Subject: [ksurfschool] Re: Kite size?


                > Thanks for the kind thoughts, but!!!!!!! We no longer have winter!
                haven't
                > had for 3 or 4 years! It's too cold for water sports to be pleasant and
                too
                > warm for snow and ice. I've got the spring bulbs and flowers coming up!
                > EERRGGFRGGHH!
                > Dave
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: Hung Vu <hungvu@...>
                > To: <ksurfschool@egroups.com>
                > Sent: Monday, January 10, 2000 10:28 PM
                > Subject: [ksurfschool] Re: Kite size?
                >
                >
                > > Dave Raue wrote:
                > > > ps- this time of year I crave warmth too. Southern New England sucks
                in
                > > > winter!
                > >
                > > Winter is not that bad! Try some winter sport like snowboarding and you
                > > will never ever longing for summer again.
                > >
                > > Or try kite snowskiing!!!
                > >
                > > If you don't have enough snow, import some from Canada ;-)
                > >
                > > Hung.
                > >
                > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                > > Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime?
                > > You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it! Sign
                > > up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation!
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                > >
                > >
                > > eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/ksurfschool
                > > http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                > Looking for educational tools for your kids?
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              • Dave Raue
                My bones couldn t take it at my advanced age. But the buggying is still OK - as long as seasonal offshore winds don t drag me into the water ... From: Colin
                Message 7 of 13 , Jan 11, 2000
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                  My bones couldn't take it at my advanced age. But the buggying is still
                  OK - as long as seasonal offshore winds don't drag me into the water
                  (happened last march - bbbrrrr!!) )-:
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Colin Gowland <colin-gowland@...>
                  To: <ksurfschool@egroups.com>
                  Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2000 6:14 PM
                  Subject: [ksurfschool] Re: Kite size?


                  > Better get a mountainboard! www.mountainboard.com I think...
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: Dave Raue <theraves@...>
                  > To: <ksurfschool@egroups.com>
                  > Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2000 6:02 PM
                  > Subject: [ksurfschool] Re: Kite size?
                  >
                  >
                  > > Thanks for the kind thoughts, but!!!!!!! We no longer have winter!
                  > haven't
                  > > had for 3 or 4 years! It's too cold for water sports to be pleasant and
                  > too
                  > > warm for snow and ice. I've got the spring bulbs and flowers coming up!
                  > > EERRGGFRGGHH!
                  > > Dave
                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > From: Hung Vu <hungvu@...>
                  > > To: <ksurfschool@egroups.com>
                  > > Sent: Monday, January 10, 2000 10:28 PM
                  > > Subject: [ksurfschool] Re: Kite size?
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > > Dave Raue wrote:
                  > > > > ps- this time of year I crave warmth too. Southern New England
                  sucks
                  > in
                  > > > > winter!
                  > > >
                  > > > Winter is not that bad! Try some winter sport like snowboarding and
                  you
                  > > > will never ever longing for summer again.
                  > > >
                  > > > Or try kite snowskiing!!!
                  > > >
                  > > > If you don't have enough snow, import some from Canada ;-)
                  > > >
                  > > > Hung.
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                  > > > You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it! Sign
                  > > > up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation!
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                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/ksurfschool
                  > > > http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                  > > Find everything you need at SmarterKids.com
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                  >
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                • Just Al.
                  What do you mean, too cold for water sports...I was out windsurfing yesterday in North Wales....I ve had to break the ice to go wondsurfing in lakes before
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jan 12, 2000
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                    What do you mean, too cold for water sports...I was out windsurfing
                    yesterday in North Wales....I've had to break the ice to go wondsurfing in
                    lakes before now!!!
                    I was also teaching a beginner to windsurf yesterday (although, he did go
                    a bit blue after a while!), and helping a friend tune a new kite that he'd
                    received (Spider Modulus 38)...Not that I really know what I'm doing, as
                    I've only just got into kiting myself.
                    Just before Xmas I bought a 2.8m Predator Mk II. Flying it (despite having
                    no previous kite flying experience) was a doddle. I've now progressed onto
                    using it as a traction engine for a mountain board on the sands. I'm hoping
                    that the skills learnt doing this will be transferrable to
                    kite-surfing...Has anyone else here used mountain boards as a learning or
                    practice platform for kite-surfing??...How transferrable are the skills?

                    Also,...Line Lengths. I've noticed that kite-surfers tend to use much
                    longer (30-40m) lines than people use in other kite traction activities
                    (20-30m)...How much difference do longer lines actually make? i.e. My
                    Predator 2.8m produces enough power for me at the moment in 15kts of wind
                    with 75ft lines.If I used 100ft lines in 10kts, would it produce a similar
                    amount of power???

                    Cheers,
                    Al.

                    06:02 PM 1/11/00 -0500, you wrote:
                    >Thanks for the kind thoughts, but!!!!!!! We no longer have winter! haven't
                    >had for 3 or 4 years! It's too cold for water sports to be pleasant and too
                    >warm for snow and ice. I've got the spring bulbs and flowers coming up!
                    >EERRGGFRGGHH!
                    >Dave
                    >----- Original Message -----
                    >From: Hung Vu <hungvu@...>
                    >To: <ksurfschool@egroups.com>
                    >Sent: Monday, January 10, 2000 10:28 PM
                    >Subject: [ksurfschool] Re: Kite size?
                    >
                    >
                    >> Dave Raue wrote:
                    >> > ps- this time of year I crave warmth too. Southern New England sucks in
                    >> > winter!
                    >>
                    >> Winter is not that bad! Try some winter sport like snowboarding and you
                    >> will never ever longing for summer again.
                    >>
                    >> Or try kite snowskiing!!!
                    >>
                    >> If you don't have enough snow, import some from Canada ;-)
                    >>
                    >> Hung.
                    >>
                    >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    >> Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime?
                    >> You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it! Sign
                    >> up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation!
                    >> http://click.egroups.com/1/332/5/_/60094/_/947561349/
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/ksurfschool
                    >> http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    >------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                    >Find everything you need at SmarterKids.com
                    >http://click.egroups.com/1/645/5/_/60094/_/947631787/
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                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    ****************************************
                    Alan R. Cole
                    Postgraduate Research Student
                    Institute of Geography and Earth Studies
                    University of Wales
                    Aberystwyth
                    Ceredigion
                    SY23 3DB
                    (01970) 621523 Daytime only
                    (07974) 392605 24 hr.
                    ****************************************
                  • Dave Raue
                    ... Probably I d be out there too, truth be told - but I m too busy gearing up for massive experimentation at Cabarete. Can t wait! ... hoping ... Not sure,
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jan 12, 2000
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                      > What do you mean, too cold for water sports...I was out windsurfing
                      > yesterday in North Wales....I've had to break the ice to go wondsurfing in
                      > lakes before now!!!

                      Probably I'd be out there too, truth be told - but I'm too busy gearing up
                      for massive experimentation at Cabarete. Can't wait!

                      --- snip
                      > using it as a traction engine for a mountain board on the sands. I'm
                      hoping
                      > that the skills learnt doing this will be transferrable to
                      > kite-surfing...Has anyone else here used mountain boards as a learning or
                      > practice platform for kite-surfing??...How transferrable are the skills?

                      Not sure, but my guess would be VERY transferable. One big difference
                      though - I assume that you don't want to be overpowered on a mountain board.
                      I was coming from buggying and one of my biggest learning blocks with
                      kitesurfing was getting comfortable with the power that you need. There
                      are some mountainboarders on the kitesurf list I think.

                      > Also,...Line Lengths. I've noticed that kite-surfers tend to use much
                      > longer (30-40m) lines than people use in other kite traction activities
                      > (20-30m)...How much difference do longer lines actually make? i.e. My
                      > Predator 2.8m produces enough power for me at the moment in 15kts of wind
                      > with 75ft lines. If I used 100ft lines in 10kts, would it produce a
                      similar
                      > amount of power???

                      It might, but you need to use the length to sweep around more to generate
                      the power. Lines make a big difference, tho I can't make precise
                      comparisons like x' lines on y kite in z wind = whatever. For kitesurfing
                      longer lines allow you to stay in the power zone correspondingly longer.
                      Also slows things down, so it can be easier to control a small kite. At
                      some point you get to diminishing returns with increased drag and hassle.
                      Also, kitesurfing doesn't need the fine, precise control that you want on
                      land, you basically just want to rip. On land you also need to think about
                      things like power lines and other objects, so shorter is more practical.
                      Over water that's less of an issue.

                      Dave
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