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Re: 4-line question/stupid idea

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  • airdoodle
    - ... stay there ... lines???? Yes, this is a non water relaunchable dump, but I am thinking of it as a last resort release in place of snapshackling into the
    Message 1 of 10 , Apr 8, 2002
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      -
      > I would imagine the kite will fly backwards towards the water,
      stay there
      > and you'll have a hell of a time trying to retrieve your front
      lines????

      Yes, this is a non water relaunchable dump, but I am thinking of
      it as a last resort release in place of snapshackling into the loop
      (fixed or chicken)... Of course, the front lines will still be on the
      kite, just not on your bar anymore. My unfounded fear (Murphys
      law), that lead to this idea, is that if you use the shcakle as
      everyone suggests and does, that is to hook into the loop and if
      you need it and if the shackle fails your Scre#*@@!$wed. My
      idea is that if you really need to bail, and if your hooked into
      either the main or the chicken loop, pulling this shackle kills all
      possible power from the kite, of course you are still hooked (but
      not shackled) into the loop. If this release point fails, you are no
      worse than being in the chicken loop without any extra safety
      stuff.... bad under the right bad conditions, but hey... you cannot
      design away all possible negative consequences... Of course,
      as I said, bad to worse things can still happen if you are
      sufficiently tangled etc etc etc... I would use a knife as a last
      resort or you could chew your way out.


      > Interested to see what happens though!!!
      >
      > ian
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "airdoodle" <matthew.hockin@h...>
      > To: <ksurfschool@y...>
      > Sent: 08 April 2002 16:31
      > Subject: [ksurfschool] 4-line question/stupid idea
      >
      >
      > > Ok, what happens on a 4 line kite if you break, or release
      both
      > > front lines (center lines) when the kite is powered up? I was
      > > playing with my new handy dandy snap shackle, my bar and
      a
      > > beer or two in my backyard. It is trivial to hook a snapshackle
      up
      > > to the centerlines (with the Naish Aero) so that it is right
      infront of
      > > the sheeting in/out strap, and thus its release would let both
      > > front lines out. In THEORY this should lead to the kite
      flipping
      > > upside down and backwards, leading edge back and trailing
      > > edge forward, inverted. I would say it should flap around a lot
      but
      > > should not generate any lift and in fact aught to hit the water
      > > pretty quick after you pull the shackle. Anyone tried this? I
      have it
      > > hooked up and am waiting for a very light wind day to try this
      > > without hooking in (the first time...) while holding the bar.
      > > Anyhow, just for fun I am going to try this, I will post my
      results... I
      > > am aware that if you have a tangle or perhaps even a twist in
      the
      > > lines, they might get caught up on the rear lines and not fully
      > > invert the kite. But, if you think about it, you only need to
      release
      > > the front lines about 2x the spar length at the attachment
      point,
      > > so on most kites 8-10 ft of release should really be enough
      > > (again comments please). On the other hand, if they
      released
      > > only 1 or 2 feet, it might be worse than no release... again I
      will
      > > try to twist them up good, and pull it and see....
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://
      docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      > >
      > >
      > >
    • vasvari54
      Hi all, I am a beginner/intermediate, just learnt how to fly upwind. Recently I bought an ARX 9.5 with a 50cm RRD bar (instead of the 10cm longer standard Nash
      Message 2 of 10 , Apr 8, 2002
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        Hi all,
        I am a beginner/intermediate, just learnt how to fly upwind. Recently
        I bought an ARX 9.5 with a 50cm RRD bar (instead of the 10cm longer
        standard Nash bar). Did I make a good choice? I am 67kg average
        built,if it matters.

        What's the significance of the bar length. Is there any guideline?

        Cheers
        Andrash
      • vasvari54
        Hi all, I am a beginner/intermediate, just learnt how to fly upwind. Recently I bought an ARX 9.5 with a 50cm RRD bar (instead of the 10cm longer standard Nash
        Message 3 of 10 , Apr 8, 2002
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          Hi all,
          I am a beginner/intermediate, just learnt how to fly upwind. Recently
          I bought an ARX 9.5 with a 50cm RRD bar (instead of the 10cm longer
          standard Nash bar). Did I make a good choice? I am 67kg average
          built,if it matters.

          What's the significance of the bar length. Is there any guideline?

          Cheers
          Andrash
        • vasvari54
          Hi all, I am a beginner/intermediate, just learnt how to fly upwind. Recently I bought an ARX 9.5 with a 50cm RRD bar (instead of the 10cm longer standard Nash
          Message 4 of 10 , Apr 8, 2002
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi all,
            I am a beginner/intermediate, just learnt how to fly upwind. Recently
            I bought an ARX 9.5 with a 50cm RRD bar (instead of the 10cm longer
            standard Nash bar). Did I make a good choice? I am 67kg average
            built,if it matters.

            What's the significance of the bar length. Is there any guideline?

            Cheers
            Andrash
          • Mel
            ... Depending on the exact kite model AND size, it can go to full power AND/OR completely out of control. Mel
            Message 5 of 10 , Apr 8, 2002
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              airdoodle <matthew.hockin@...> wrote:

              > Ok, what happens on a 4 line kite if you break, or release both
              > front lines (center lines) when the kite is powered up?

              Depending on the exact kite model AND size, it can go to full power AND/OR
              completely out of control.

              Mel
            • airdoodle
              Ok- I warned everyone in the title... stupid idea... but I had to do something whilst I was waiting for the water to warm up so I could actually use the kite,
              Message 6 of 10 , Apr 8, 2002
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                Ok- I warned everyone in the title... stupid idea... but I had to do
                something whilst I was waiting for the water to warm up so I
                could actually use the kite, so naturally I started to add my new
                toy (snap shackle) to any part of the kite that seemed receptive...
                The dog escaped unharmed. I need to retract the "I am going to
                try this and report back" statement. I hate to dissapoint all those
                awaiting the kite wreck newscast. Darn.

                Matt

                > > Ok, what happens on a 4 line kite if you break, or release
                both
                > > front lines (center lines) when the kite is powered up?
                >
                > Depending on the exact kite model AND size, it can go to full
                power AND/OR
                > completely out of control.
                >
                > Mel
              • Suntrax
                Airdoodle wrote;. ... possible power from the kite, of course you are still hooked (but not shackled) into the loop. If this release point fails, you are no
                Message 7 of 10 , Apr 9, 2002
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                  Airdoodle wrote;.

                  >pulling this shackle kills all
                  possible power from the kite, of course you are still hooked (but
                  not shackled) into the loop. If this release point fails, you are no
                  worse than being in the chicken loop without any extra safety
                  stuff.... bad under the right bad conditions, but hey... you cannot
                  design away all possible negative consequences... Of course,
                  as I said, bad to worse things can still happen if you are
                  sufficiently tangled etc etc etc... I would use a knife as a last
                  resort or you could chew your way out.



                  Or you could, in addition to the QR shackle, the use the ProLimit quick
                  release spreader.


                  Brian Wilson
                  Suntrax
                  Tel/fax 027 21 5560044
                  cell; 0824656696
                  www.suntrax.co.za
                  suntrax@...
                • Kitepower
                  Maybe it was the beer!! :-)) Please don t do it, I can tell you what will happen and none of it is fun or good to watch. The kite will not necessarily drop
                  Message 8 of 10 , Apr 9, 2002
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                    Maybe it was the beer!! :-))
                    Please don't do it, I can tell you what will happen and none of it is fun or
                    good to watch.
                    The kite will not necessarily drop from the sky, but will be very hard to
                    control, and could be damaged (Rips the rear line attachments off the kite)
                    just from the release of the centre lines under load.
                    I have seen it happen to Naish users when the trim (chicken) loop rope
                    breaks. I saw one guy gingerly sail back from more than a klm out, but on
                    all other occasions the riders had to be rescued.
                    Kite leashes on all sleds (inflatables and arcs) work best when only one
                    line is leashed preferably a centre line.

                    Cya and
                    Goodwinds
                    Steve McCormack
                    http://www.kitepower.com.au
                    mailto:sydney@...
                    126 Beach St, Coogee, NSW, Australia 2034
                    Open 7 Days 9.30 - 5.30
                    Also at 386 Latrobe Terrace Geelong Vic
                    mailto:geelong@...

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: airdoodle [mailto:matthew.hockin@...]
                    Sent: Tuesday, 9 April 2002 1:32
                    To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [ksurfschool] 4-line question/stupid idea


                    Ok, what happens on a 4 line kite if you break, or release both
                    front lines (center lines) when the kite is powered up? I was
                    playing with my new handy dandy snap shackle, my bar and a
                    beer or two in my backyard. It is trivial to hook a snapshackle up
                    to the centerlines (with the Naish Aero) so that it is right infront of
                    the sheeting in/out strap, and thus its release would let both
                    front lines out. In THEORY this should lead to the kite flipping
                    upside down and backwards, leading edge back and trailing
                    edge forward, inverted. I would say it should flap around a lot but
                    should not generate any lift and in fact aught to hit the water
                    pretty quick after you pull the shackle. Anyone tried this? I have it
                    hooked up and am waiting for a very light wind day to try this
                    without hooking in (the first time...) while holding the bar.
                    Anyhow, just for fun I am going to try this, I will post my results... I
                    am aware that if you have a tangle or perhaps even a twist in the
                    lines, they might get caught up on the rear lines and not fully
                    invert the kite. But, if you think about it, you only need to release
                    the front lines about 2x the spar length at the attachment point,
                    so on most kites 8-10 ft of release should really be enough
                    (again comments please). On the other hand, if they released
                    only 1 or 2 feet, it might be worse than no release... again I will
                    try to twist them up good, and pull it and see....




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