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Re: [ksurfschool] 4-line question/stupid idea

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  • ian@gettingnervous.com
    I would imagine the kite will fly backwards towards the water, stay there and you ll have a hell of a time trying to retrieve your front lines???? Interested
    Message 1 of 10 , Apr 8, 2002
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      I would imagine the kite will fly backwards towards the water, stay there
      and you'll have a hell of a time trying to retrieve your front lines????

      Interested to see what happens though!!!

      ian


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "airdoodle" <matthew.hockin@...>
      To: <ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: 08 April 2002 16:31
      Subject: [ksurfschool] 4-line question/stupid idea


      > Ok, what happens on a 4 line kite if you break, or release both
      > front lines (center lines) when the kite is powered up? I was
      > playing with my new handy dandy snap shackle, my bar and a
      > beer or two in my backyard. It is trivial to hook a snapshackle up
      > to the centerlines (with the Naish Aero) so that it is right infront of
      > the sheeting in/out strap, and thus its release would let both
      > front lines out. In THEORY this should lead to the kite flipping
      > upside down and backwards, leading edge back and trailing
      > edge forward, inverted. I would say it should flap around a lot but
      > should not generate any lift and in fact aught to hit the water
      > pretty quick after you pull the shackle. Anyone tried this? I have it
      > hooked up and am waiting for a very light wind day to try this
      > without hooking in (the first time...) while holding the bar.
      > Anyhow, just for fun I am going to try this, I will post my results... I
      > am aware that if you have a tangle or perhaps even a twist in the
      > lines, they might get caught up on the rear lines and not fully
      > invert the kite. But, if you think about it, you only need to release
      > the front lines about 2x the spar length at the attachment point,
      > so on most kites 8-10 ft of release should really be enough
      > (again comments please). On the other hand, if they released
      > only 1 or 2 feet, it might be worse than no release... again I will
      > try to twist them up good, and pull it and see....
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
      >
    • airdoodle
      - ... stay there ... lines???? Yes, this is a non water relaunchable dump, but I am thinking of it as a last resort release in place of snapshackling into the
      Message 2 of 10 , Apr 8, 2002
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        -
        > I would imagine the kite will fly backwards towards the water,
        stay there
        > and you'll have a hell of a time trying to retrieve your front
        lines????

        Yes, this is a non water relaunchable dump, but I am thinking of
        it as a last resort release in place of snapshackling into the loop
        (fixed or chicken)... Of course, the front lines will still be on the
        kite, just not on your bar anymore. My unfounded fear (Murphys
        law), that lead to this idea, is that if you use the shcakle as
        everyone suggests and does, that is to hook into the loop and if
        you need it and if the shackle fails your Scre#*@@!$wed. My
        idea is that if you really need to bail, and if your hooked into
        either the main or the chicken loop, pulling this shackle kills all
        possible power from the kite, of course you are still hooked (but
        not shackled) into the loop. If this release point fails, you are no
        worse than being in the chicken loop without any extra safety
        stuff.... bad under the right bad conditions, but hey... you cannot
        design away all possible negative consequences... Of course,
        as I said, bad to worse things can still happen if you are
        sufficiently tangled etc etc etc... I would use a knife as a last
        resort or you could chew your way out.


        > Interested to see what happens though!!!
        >
        > ian
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "airdoodle" <matthew.hockin@h...>
        > To: <ksurfschool@y...>
        > Sent: 08 April 2002 16:31
        > Subject: [ksurfschool] 4-line question/stupid idea
        >
        >
        > > Ok, what happens on a 4 line kite if you break, or release
        both
        > > front lines (center lines) when the kite is powered up? I was
        > > playing with my new handy dandy snap shackle, my bar and
        a
        > > beer or two in my backyard. It is trivial to hook a snapshackle
        up
        > > to the centerlines (with the Naish Aero) so that it is right
        infront of
        > > the sheeting in/out strap, and thus its release would let both
        > > front lines out. In THEORY this should lead to the kite
        flipping
        > > upside down and backwards, leading edge back and trailing
        > > edge forward, inverted. I would say it should flap around a lot
        but
        > > should not generate any lift and in fact aught to hit the water
        > > pretty quick after you pull the shackle. Anyone tried this? I
        have it
        > > hooked up and am waiting for a very light wind day to try this
        > > without hooking in (the first time...) while holding the bar.
        > > Anyhow, just for fun I am going to try this, I will post my
        results... I
        > > am aware that if you have a tangle or perhaps even a twist in
        the
        > > lines, they might get caught up on the rear lines and not fully
        > > invert the kite. But, if you think about it, you only need to
        release
        > > the front lines about 2x the spar length at the attachment
        point,
        > > so on most kites 8-10 ft of release should really be enough
        > > (again comments please). On the other hand, if they
        released
        > > only 1 or 2 feet, it might be worse than no release... again I
        will
        > > try to twist them up good, and pull it and see....
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://
        docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        > >
        > >
        > >
      • vasvari54
        Hi all, I am a beginner/intermediate, just learnt how to fly upwind. Recently I bought an ARX 9.5 with a 50cm RRD bar (instead of the 10cm longer standard Nash
        Message 3 of 10 , Apr 8, 2002
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          Hi all,
          I am a beginner/intermediate, just learnt how to fly upwind. Recently
          I bought an ARX 9.5 with a 50cm RRD bar (instead of the 10cm longer
          standard Nash bar). Did I make a good choice? I am 67kg average
          built,if it matters.

          What's the significance of the bar length. Is there any guideline?

          Cheers
          Andrash
        • vasvari54
          Hi all, I am a beginner/intermediate, just learnt how to fly upwind. Recently I bought an ARX 9.5 with a 50cm RRD bar (instead of the 10cm longer standard Nash
          Message 4 of 10 , Apr 8, 2002
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi all,
            I am a beginner/intermediate, just learnt how to fly upwind. Recently
            I bought an ARX 9.5 with a 50cm RRD bar (instead of the 10cm longer
            standard Nash bar). Did I make a good choice? I am 67kg average
            built,if it matters.

            What's the significance of the bar length. Is there any guideline?

            Cheers
            Andrash
          • vasvari54
            Hi all, I am a beginner/intermediate, just learnt how to fly upwind. Recently I bought an ARX 9.5 with a 50cm RRD bar (instead of the 10cm longer standard Nash
            Message 5 of 10 , Apr 8, 2002
            • 0 Attachment
              Hi all,
              I am a beginner/intermediate, just learnt how to fly upwind. Recently
              I bought an ARX 9.5 with a 50cm RRD bar (instead of the 10cm longer
              standard Nash bar). Did I make a good choice? I am 67kg average
              built,if it matters.

              What's the significance of the bar length. Is there any guideline?

              Cheers
              Andrash
            • Mel
              ... Depending on the exact kite model AND size, it can go to full power AND/OR completely out of control. Mel
              Message 6 of 10 , Apr 8, 2002
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                airdoodle <matthew.hockin@...> wrote:

                > Ok, what happens on a 4 line kite if you break, or release both
                > front lines (center lines) when the kite is powered up?

                Depending on the exact kite model AND size, it can go to full power AND/OR
                completely out of control.

                Mel
              • airdoodle
                Ok- I warned everyone in the title... stupid idea... but I had to do something whilst I was waiting for the water to warm up so I could actually use the kite,
                Message 7 of 10 , Apr 8, 2002
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                  Ok- I warned everyone in the title... stupid idea... but I had to do
                  something whilst I was waiting for the water to warm up so I
                  could actually use the kite, so naturally I started to add my new
                  toy (snap shackle) to any part of the kite that seemed receptive...
                  The dog escaped unharmed. I need to retract the "I am going to
                  try this and report back" statement. I hate to dissapoint all those
                  awaiting the kite wreck newscast. Darn.

                  Matt

                  > > Ok, what happens on a 4 line kite if you break, or release
                  both
                  > > front lines (center lines) when the kite is powered up?
                  >
                  > Depending on the exact kite model AND size, it can go to full
                  power AND/OR
                  > completely out of control.
                  >
                  > Mel
                • Suntrax
                  Airdoodle wrote;. ... possible power from the kite, of course you are still hooked (but not shackled) into the loop. If this release point fails, you are no
                  Message 8 of 10 , Apr 9, 2002
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                    Airdoodle wrote;.

                    >pulling this shackle kills all
                    possible power from the kite, of course you are still hooked (but
                    not shackled) into the loop. If this release point fails, you are no
                    worse than being in the chicken loop without any extra safety
                    stuff.... bad under the right bad conditions, but hey... you cannot
                    design away all possible negative consequences... Of course,
                    as I said, bad to worse things can still happen if you are
                    sufficiently tangled etc etc etc... I would use a knife as a last
                    resort or you could chew your way out.



                    Or you could, in addition to the QR shackle, the use the ProLimit quick
                    release spreader.


                    Brian Wilson
                    Suntrax
                    Tel/fax 027 21 5560044
                    cell; 0824656696
                    www.suntrax.co.za
                    suntrax@...
                  • Kitepower
                    Maybe it was the beer!! :-)) Please don t do it, I can tell you what will happen and none of it is fun or good to watch. The kite will not necessarily drop
                    Message 9 of 10 , Apr 9, 2002
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                      Maybe it was the beer!! :-))
                      Please don't do it, I can tell you what will happen and none of it is fun or
                      good to watch.
                      The kite will not necessarily drop from the sky, but will be very hard to
                      control, and could be damaged (Rips the rear line attachments off the kite)
                      just from the release of the centre lines under load.
                      I have seen it happen to Naish users when the trim (chicken) loop rope
                      breaks. I saw one guy gingerly sail back from more than a klm out, but on
                      all other occasions the riders had to be rescued.
                      Kite leashes on all sleds (inflatables and arcs) work best when only one
                      line is leashed preferably a centre line.

                      Cya and
                      Goodwinds
                      Steve McCormack
                      http://www.kitepower.com.au
                      mailto:sydney@...
                      126 Beach St, Coogee, NSW, Australia 2034
                      Open 7 Days 9.30 - 5.30
                      Also at 386 Latrobe Terrace Geelong Vic
                      mailto:geelong@...

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: airdoodle [mailto:matthew.hockin@...]
                      Sent: Tuesday, 9 April 2002 1:32
                      To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [ksurfschool] 4-line question/stupid idea


                      Ok, what happens on a 4 line kite if you break, or release both
                      front lines (center lines) when the kite is powered up? I was
                      playing with my new handy dandy snap shackle, my bar and a
                      beer or two in my backyard. It is trivial to hook a snapshackle up
                      to the centerlines (with the Naish Aero) so that it is right infront of
                      the sheeting in/out strap, and thus its release would let both
                      front lines out. In THEORY this should lead to the kite flipping
                      upside down and backwards, leading edge back and trailing
                      edge forward, inverted. I would say it should flap around a lot but
                      should not generate any lift and in fact aught to hit the water
                      pretty quick after you pull the shackle. Anyone tried this? I have it
                      hooked up and am waiting for a very light wind day to try this
                      without hooking in (the first time...) while holding the bar.
                      Anyhow, just for fun I am going to try this, I will post my results... I
                      am aware that if you have a tangle or perhaps even a twist in the
                      lines, they might get caught up on the rear lines and not fully
                      invert the kite. But, if you think about it, you only need to release
                      the front lines about 2x the spar length at the attachment point,
                      so on most kites 8-10 ft of release should really be enough
                      (again comments please). On the other hand, if they released
                      only 1 or 2 feet, it might be worse than no release... again I will
                      try to twist them up good, and pull it and see....




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