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Re: [ksurfschool] Re: To chicken loop or not?- Note on shackels

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  • Remtgnow@AOL.com
    how many scheckels for that shackle? t-8? Phil Burke
    Message 1 of 19 , Mar 7, 2002
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      how many scheckels for that shackle? t-8?
      Phil Burke
    • Mike Soultanian
      I was looking at the Tylaska T-8 Shackle.. do you have to stick your finger in the little hole and push the lever to release it? mike
      Message 2 of 19 , Mar 7, 2002
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        I was looking at the Tylaska T-8 Shackle.. do you have to stick your
        finger in the little hole and push the lever to release it?

        mike


        Philip wrote:
        >
        > A note on Shackles. Do not Screw around! Get the Trigger release shackle
        > Tylaska T-8.
        > There are less expensive shackles for sure, but saving $50-$60-or even
        > $100 bucks means nothing when you cannot release your self from the
        > kite. Weather you get them from me or not is irrelevant! Just get one.
        > Shackles with Pins become increasingly difficult to open as the load
        > goes up and the friction builds on the pin.
        > The Tylaska will release under huge load very easily as the trigger is
        > not influenced by the load on the shackle.
        >
        > Moral- Don't try to save shekels when buying a shackle, If the pin gets
        > stuck you are out of luck.
        > In safety, trying to save a nickel may mean a trip to the
        > hospital.
        >
        > Have Fun, Be Safe!
        >
        > Philip
        >
        >
        > Philip Mann
        > Inland Sea Windsurf Co.
        > http://www.inlandsea.com
        > Kitesite.net
        > http://www.kitesite.net
        > toll free 888-465-2632
        >
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Mel [mailto:kitebord@...]
        > Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 10:27 AM
        > To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Re: To chicken loop or not?
        >
        > fernmanus <fernmanus@...> wrote:
        >
        > > A good snap shackle system can help you release from the chicken loop
        > > when you are way overpowered. I personally would never do away with
        > > the chicken loop.
        >
        > Trim LINES are great. It's the LOOP that's the biggest problem. Make
        > the loop itself too small to hook to the harness, & use a good snap
        > shackle to connect it instead. That way you can nearly always get out
        > when you need to.
        >
        > Mel
        >
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      • Philip
        A note on Shackles. Do not Screw around! Get the Trigger release shackle Tylaska T-8. There are less expensive shackles for sure, but saving $50-$60-or even
        Message 3 of 19 , Mar 7, 2002
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          A note on Shackles. Do not Screw around! Get the Trigger release shackle
          Tylaska T-8.
          There are less expensive shackles for sure, but saving $50-$60-or even
          $100 bucks means nothing when you cannot release your self from the
          kite. Weather you get them from me or not is irrelevant! Just get one.
          Shackles with Pins become increasingly difficult to open as the load
          goes up and the friction builds on the pin.
          The Tylaska will release under huge load very easily as the trigger is
          not influenced by the load on the shackle.

          Moral- Don't try to save shekels when buying a shackle, If the pin gets
          stuck you are out of luck.
          In safety, trying to save a nickel may mean a trip to the
          hospital.

          Have Fun, Be Safe!


          Philip




          Philip Mann
          Inland Sea Windsurf Co.
          http://www.inlandsea.com
          Kitesite.net
          http://www.kitesite.net
          toll free 888-465-2632



          -----Original Message-----
          From: Mel [mailto:kitebord@...]
          Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 10:27 AM
          To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Re: To chicken loop or not?


          fernmanus <fernmanus@...> wrote:

          > A good snap shackle system can help you release from the chicken loop
          > when you are way overpowered. I personally would never do away with
          > the chicken loop.

          Trim LINES are great. It's the LOOP that's the biggest problem. Make
          the loop itself too small to hook to the harness, & use a good snap
          shackle to connect it instead. That way you can nearly always get out
          when you need to.

          Mel





          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        • Hung Vu
          Mel, I think Mel start to see the light ... Yes, the trim line is great... Even me I use the trim strap (which in turn shortens or lengthens the trim line).
          Message 4 of 19 , Mar 7, 2002
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            Mel,

            I think Mel start to see the "light"...

            Yes, the trim line is great... Even me I use the trim strap (which in
            turn shortens or lengthens the trim line).

            It's the LOOP that is dangerous and should be banned unless they shipped
            a snap shackle loop as the standard device.

            Some "simplicist" like me just simply drop the loop...

            Hung.

            Mel wrote:
            >
            > fernmanus <fernmanus@...> wrote:
            >
            > > A good snap shackle system can help you release from the chicken loop
            > > when you are way overpowered. I personally would never do away with
            > > the chicken loop.
            >
            > Trim LINES are great. It's the LOOP that's the biggest problem. Make the
            > loop itself too small to hook to the harness, & use a good snap shackle to
            > connect it instead. That way you can nearly always get out when you need
            > to.
            >
            > Mel
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          • Dwight & Jacky
            You do if you don t buy the specially modified T-8 sold for kiting. I think they show it at NSI s web site. Dwight
            Message 5 of 19 , Mar 7, 2002
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              You do if you don't buy the specially modified T-8 sold for kiting. I think they show it at NSI's
              web site.

              Dwight


              > I was looking at the Tylaska T-8 Shackle.. do you have to stick your
              > finger in the little hole and push the lever to release it?
              >
              > mike
            • airdoodle
              ... in ... they shipped ... Ok- Let me see if I can restate this to be sure I understand and to summarize everything. There seem to be three issues: 1) Is the
              Message 6 of 19 , Mar 8, 2002
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                --- In ksurfschool@y..., Hung Vu <hungvu@n...> wrote:
                > Mel,
                >
                > I think Mel start to see the "light"...
                >
                > Yes, the trim line is great... Even me I use the trim strap (which
                in
                > turn shortens or lengthens the trim line).
                >
                > It's the LOOP that is dangerous and should be banned unless
                they shipped
                > a snap shackle loop as the standard device.
                >
                > Some "simplicist" like me just simply drop the loop...
                >
                > Hung.
                >
                >
                Ok- Let me see if I can restate this to be sure I understand and
                to summarize everything. There seem to be three issues:

                1) Is the chicken loop a good device to control the kite.
                Yes.... under all conditions it allows you to have less
                power than you otherwise would so this is "safe"

                2) Is the chicken loop safe to be hooked into.
                I am a bit confused....

                two points seem to be being made, both sound correct

                It is not safe because if you get overpowered with the bar fully
                out you are really in trouble because you need to pull it in to
                get out of the loop and doing so increases (A LOT) the
                power to you in an allready bad situation. This makes sense.

                It is also not safe because the loop is too small to release...
                Can someone explain this to me at the first grade level

                So, the final summary seems to be, if we had (and we do) a way
                to more or less guarantee that you could get out of the chicken
                loop without pulling the bar in then the chicken loop would be the
                preferred (lets not argue about style of riding, just emphasize
                safety for beginners) system to use.

                So, shicken loop plus snapshackle = kite control + safety

                Any suggestions about waiting for the prolimit v.s. buying a snap
                shackle today?

                Matthew
              • Mike Soultanian
                Is releasing this shackle something that s relatively easy to do? I can t really tell from the picture what needs to be done to open it. Also, if you release
                Message 7 of 19 , Mar 8, 2002
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                  Is releasing this shackle something that's relatively easy to do? I
                  can't really tell from the picture what needs to be done to open it.

                  Also, if you release it under pressure, it looks like the thing will
                  flip open real fast and whack you in the hand.

                  Is this an issue?

                  Thanks,
                  Mike


                  Philip wrote:
                  >
                  > Mike,
                  >
                  > The Shackle itself does require that you insert a finger to set off the
                  > trigger.
                  > What North Shore has done is to manufacturer a Trigger release that is
                  > simple but only requires you to grab down at the bar and flick it and
                  > the shackle releases.
                  > The picture is at the following link.
                  >
                  > http://www.kitesite.net/products/nsi/kiteshacklesetup.jpg
                  >
                  > Philip Mann
                  > Inland Sea Windsurf Co.
                  > http://www.inlandsea.com
                  > Kitesite.net
                  > http://www.kitesite.net
                  > toll free 888-465-2632
                  >
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: Mike Soultanian [mailto:msoultan@...]
                  > Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 1:27 PM
                  > To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Re: To chicken loop or not?- Note on shackels
                  >
                  > I was looking at the Tylaska T-8 Shackle.. do you have to stick your
                  > finger in the little hole and push the lever to release it?
                  >
                  > mike
                  >
                  > Philip wrote:
                  > >
                  > > A note on Shackles. Do not Screw around! Get the Trigger release
                  > > shackle Tylaska T-8. There are less expensive shackles for sure, but
                  > > saving $50-$60-or even $100 bucks means nothing when you cannot
                  > > release your self from the kite. Weather you get them from me or not
                  > > is irrelevant! Just get one. Shackles with Pins become increasingly
                  > > difficult to open as the load goes up and the friction builds on the
                  > > pin. The Tylaska will release under huge load very easily as the
                  > > trigger is not influenced by the load on the shackle.
                  > >
                  > > Moral- Don't try to save shekels when buying a shackle, If the pin
                  > > gets stuck you are out of luck.
                  > > In safety, trying to save a nickel may mean a trip to the
                  > > hospital.
                  > >
                  > > Have Fun, Be Safe!
                  > >
                  > > Philip
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Philip Mann
                  > > Inland Sea Windsurf Co.
                  > > http://www.inlandsea.com
                  > > Kitesite.net
                  > > http://www.kitesite.net
                  > > toll free 888-465-2632
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > From: Mel [mailto:kitebord@...]
                  > > Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 10:27 AM
                  > > To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Re: To chicken loop or not?
                  > >
                  > > fernmanus <fernmanus@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > > A good snap shackle system can help you release from the chicken
                  > > > loop when you are way overpowered. I personally would never do away
                  >
                  > > > with the chicken loop.
                  > >
                  > > Trim LINES are great. It's the LOOP that's the biggest problem. Make
                  >
                  > > the loop itself too small to hook to the harness, & use a good snap
                  > > shackle to connect it instead. That way you can nearly always get out
                  >
                  > > when you need to.
                  > >
                  > > Mel
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                • Philip
                  Phil, The T8 is $121.00 delivered/ There is also a pre set up harness bar set up that is nice. You can se them at.
                  Message 8 of 19 , Mar 8, 2002
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                    Phil,

                    The T8 is $121.00 delivered/
                    There is also a pre set up harness bar set up that is nice.

                    You can se them at.
                    http://www.kitesite.net/products/mainframe_bars.htm

                    On the bottom right.

                    Let me know what questions you may have.

                    Philip




                    Philip Mann
                    Inland Sea Windsurf Co.
                    http://www.inlandsea.com
                    Kitesite.net
                    http://www.kitesite.net
                    toll free 888-465-2632



                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Remtgnow@... [mailto:Remtgnow@...]
                    Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 1:23 PM
                    To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Re: To chicken loop or not?- Note on shackels


                    how many scheckels for that shackle? t-8?
                    Phil Burke




                    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  • Philip
                    Mike, The Shackle itself does require that you insert a finger to set off the trigger. What North Shore has done is to manufacturer a Trigger release that is
                    Message 9 of 19 , Mar 8, 2002
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Mike,

                      The Shackle itself does require that you insert a finger to set off the
                      trigger.
                      What North Shore has done is to manufacturer a Trigger release that is
                      simple but only requires you to grab down at the bar and flick it and
                      the shackle releases.
                      The picture is at the following link.

                      http://www.kitesite.net/products/nsi/kiteshacklesetup.jpg

                      Philip Mann
                      Inland Sea Windsurf Co.
                      http://www.inlandsea.com
                      Kitesite.net
                      http://www.kitesite.net
                      toll free 888-465-2632



                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Mike Soultanian [mailto:msoultan@...]
                      Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 1:27 PM
                      To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Re: To chicken loop or not?- Note on shackels


                      I was looking at the Tylaska T-8 Shackle.. do you have to stick your
                      finger in the little hole and push the lever to release it?

                      mike


                      Philip wrote:
                      >
                      > A note on Shackles. Do not Screw around! Get the Trigger release
                      > shackle Tylaska T-8. There are less expensive shackles for sure, but
                      > saving $50-$60-or even $100 bucks means nothing when you cannot
                      > release your self from the kite. Weather you get them from me or not
                      > is irrelevant! Just get one. Shackles with Pins become increasingly
                      > difficult to open as the load goes up and the friction builds on the
                      > pin. The Tylaska will release under huge load very easily as the
                      > trigger is not influenced by the load on the shackle.
                      >
                      > Moral- Don't try to save shekels when buying a shackle, If the pin
                      > gets stuck you are out of luck.
                      > In safety, trying to save a nickel may mean a trip to the
                      > hospital.
                      >
                      > Have Fun, Be Safe!
                      >
                      > Philip
                      >
                      >
                      > Philip Mann
                      > Inland Sea Windsurf Co.
                      > http://www.inlandsea.com
                      > Kitesite.net
                      > http://www.kitesite.net
                      > toll free 888-465-2632
                      >
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: Mel [mailto:kitebord@...]
                      > Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 10:27 AM
                      > To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Re: To chicken loop or not?
                      >
                      > fernmanus <fernmanus@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > A good snap shackle system can help you release from the chicken
                      > > loop when you are way overpowered. I personally would never do away

                      > > with the chicken loop.
                      >
                      > Trim LINES are great. It's the LOOP that's the biggest problem. Make

                      > the loop itself too small to hook to the harness, & use a good snap
                      > shackle to connect it instead. That way you can nearly always get out

                      > when you need to.
                      >
                      > Mel
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




                      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    • Mel
                      ... Actually Hung, I saw the light a couple of years ago after about the third time I used a 4-line sled, & have been an anti-loop snapshackle advocate ever
                      Message 10 of 19 , Mar 9, 2002
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                        Hung Vu <hungvu@n...> wrote:

                        > I think Mel start to see the "light"...
                        > It's the LOOP that is dangerous and should be banned unless
                        > they shipped
                        > a snap shackle loop as the standard device.

                        Actually Hung, I "saw the light" a couple of years ago after about the third
                        time I used a 4-line sled, & have been an anti-loop snapshackle advocate
                        ever since.

                        AND airdoodle <matthew.hockin@...> wrote:

                        > Any suggestions about waiting for the prolimit v.s. buying a snap
                        > shackle today?

                        1) Don't risk your life for the next few weeks (I just heard it will be
                        mid-to-late April before they're here), just in case they end up working
                        better (making you feel like you "wasted" $60, just to save a trip to the
                        emergency room).

                        2) An advantage to the snapshackle is that it keeps you hooked in when a
                        loop may fall off a hook (releasable or otherwise) when you don't want it
                        to. Advantages of the ProLimit include the ability to unhook from a trim
                        loop when you DO want to, as well as the ability to release from a main
                        harness line.

                        On the snapshackle itself, www.westmarine.com # 214700 is a Wichard "trigger
                        release" that's less expensive than the Tylaska T-8, but I still prefer #
                        583940 (Wichard 2673). Both require roughly equally easy modifications for
                        kiteboarding use, but the 2673 releases just as reliably (tip pivot) at
                        about 2/3 the price, & can be set up so pulling a "grab-ball" in ANY
                        direction releases it. There are photos in my group file folder.

                        Mel
                      • Pauric
                        I ve seen some 2001 airblast main loops with a flexible plastic pipe. The pipe extends past the loop by an inch or so and fits *in* to the speader hook after
                        Message 11 of 19 , Mar 12, 2002
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                          I've seen some 2001 airblast main loops with a flexible plastic pipe. The pipe extends past the loop by an inch or so and fits *in* to the speader hook after the loop goes on. This stops the loop droping off and is relatively easy to remove under normal conditions

                          What are people's experience of this, how hard is to to release under pressure?

                          thanks
                          p

                          To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
                          cc:
                          Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Re: To chicken loop or not?

                          Hung Vu <hungvu@n...> wrote:

                          > I think Mel start to see the "light"...
                          > It's the LOOP that is dangerous and should be banned unless
                          > they shipped
                          > a snap shackle loop as the standard device.

                          Actually Hung, I "saw the light" a couple of years ago after about the third
                          time I used a 4-line sled, & have been an anti-loop snapshackle advocate
                          ever since.

                          AND airdoodle <matthew.hockin@...> wrote:

                          > Any suggestions about waiting for the prolimit v.s. buying a snap
                          > shackle today?

                          1) Don't risk your life for the next few weeks (I just heard it will be
                          mid-to-late April before they're here), just in case they end up working
                          better (making you feel like you "wasted" $60, just to save a trip to the
                          emergency room).

                          2) An advantage to the snapshackle is that it keeps you hooked in when a
                          loop may fall off a hook (releasable or otherwise) when you don't want it
                          to. Advantages of the ProLimit include the ability to unhook from a trim
                          loop when you DO want to, as well as the ability to release from a main
                          harness line.

                          On the snapshackle itself, www.westmarine.com # 214700 is a Wichard "trigger
                          release" that's less expensive than the Tylaska T-8, but I still prefer #
                          583940 (Wichard 2673). Both require roughly equally easy modifications for
                          kiteboarding use, but the 2673 releases just as reliably (tip pivot) at
                          about 2/3 the price, & can be set up so pulling a "grab-ball" in ANY
                          direction releases it. There are photos in my group file folder.

                          Mel





                          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Philip
                          P. The Chicken Loop with the tube is not easy to get out of under load. In general chicken loops are hard to get out of in an emergency situation and the Tube
                          Message 12 of 19 , Mar 12, 2002
                          • 0 Attachment
                            P.

                            The Chicken Loop with the tube is not easy to get out of under load. In
                            general chicken loops are hard to get out of in an emergency situation
                            and the Tube doesn't help.

                            Philip

                            Philip Mann
                            Inland Sea Windsurf Co.
                            http://www.inlandsea.com
                            Kitesite.net
                            http://www.kitesite.net
                            toll free 888-465-2632



                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Pauric [mailto:paurico@...]
                            Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 6:06 AM
                            To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Re: To chicken loop or not?


                            I've seen some 2001 airblast main loops with a flexible plastic pipe.
                            The pipe extends past the loop by an inch or so and fits *in* to the
                            speader hook after the loop goes on. This stops the loop droping off
                            and is relatively easy to remove under normal conditions

                            What are people's experience of this, how hard is to to release under
                            pressure?

                            thanks
                            p

                            To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
                            cc:
                            Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Re: To chicken loop or not?

                            Hung Vu <hungvu@n...> wrote:

                            > I think Mel start to see the "light"...
                            > It's the LOOP that is dangerous and should be banned unless they
                            > shipped a snap shackle loop as the standard device.

                            Actually Hung, I "saw the light" a couple of years ago after about the
                            third time I used a 4-line sled, & have been an anti-loop snapshackle
                            advocate ever since.

                            AND airdoodle <matthew.hockin@...> wrote:

                            > Any suggestions about waiting for the prolimit v.s. buying a snap
                            > shackle today?

                            1) Don't risk your life for the next few weeks (I just heard it will be
                            mid-to-late April before they're here), just in case they end up working
                            better (making you feel like you "wasted" $60, just to save a trip to
                            the emergency room).

                            2) An advantage to the snapshackle is that it keeps you hooked in when a
                            loop may fall off a hook (releasable or otherwise) when you don't want
                            it to. Advantages of the ProLimit include the ability to unhook from a
                            trim loop when you DO want to, as well as the ability to release from a
                            main harness line.

                            On the snapshackle itself, www.westmarine.com # 214700 is a Wichard
                            "trigger release" that's less expensive than the Tylaska T-8, but I
                            still prefer # 583940 (Wichard 2673). Both require roughly equally easy
                            modifications for kiteboarding use, but the 2673 releases just as
                            reliably (tip pivot) at about 2/3 the price, & can be set up so pulling
                            a "grab-ball" in ANY direction releases it. There are photos in my group
                            file folder.

                            Mel





                            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                            http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                            http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          • callum_downie
                            Harder than a normal loop without the extra tubing, and a normal loop is close to imposible if you have enough power to dangerously loft you. Wipika now make
                            Message 13 of 19 , Mar 12, 2002
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                              Harder than a normal loop without the extra tubing, and a normal loop
                              is close to imposible if you have enough power to dangerously loft
                              you.

                              Wipika now make these loops with a release mechanism where the loop
                              joins the center rope to allow you to easily release, I am unsure of
                              how reliably these release.

                              Callum

                              --- In ksurfschool@y..., "Pauric" <paurico@p...> wrote:
                              > I've seen some 2001 airblast main loops with a flexible plastic
                              pipe. The pipe extends past the loop by an inch or so and fits *in*
                              to the speader hook after the loop goes on. This stops the loop
                              droping off and is relatively easy to remove under normal conditions
                              >
                              > What are people's experience of this, how hard is to to release
                              under pressure?
                              >
                              > thanks
                              > p
                              >
                              > To: ksurfschool@y...
                              > cc:
                              > Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Re: To chicken loop or not?
                              >
                              > Hung Vu <hungvu@n...> wrote:
                              >
                              > > I think Mel start to see the "light"...
                              > > It's the LOOP that is dangerous and should be banned unless
                              > > they shipped
                              > > a snap shackle loop as the standard device.
                              >
                              > Actually Hung, I "saw the light" a couple of years ago after about
                              the third
                              > time I used a 4-line sled, & have been an anti-loop snapshackle
                              advocate
                              > ever since.
                              >
                              > AND airdoodle <matthew.hockin@h...> wrote:
                              >
                              > > Any suggestions about waiting for the prolimit v.s. buying a snap
                              > > shackle today?
                              >
                              > 1) Don't risk your life for the next few weeks (I just heard it
                              will be
                              > mid-to-late April before they're here), just in case they end up
                              working
                              > better (making you feel like you "wasted" $60, just to save a trip
                              to the
                              > emergency room).
                              >
                              > 2) An advantage to the snapshackle is that it keeps you hooked in
                              when a
                              > loop may fall off a hook (releasable or otherwise) when you don't
                              want it
                              > to. Advantages of the ProLimit include the ability to unhook from a
                              trim
                              > loop when you DO want to, as well as the ability to release from a
                              main
                              > harness line.
                              >
                              > On the snapshackle itself, www.westmarine.com # 214700 is a
                              Wichard "trigger
                              > release" that's less expensive than the Tylaska T-8, but I still
                              prefer #
                              > 583940 (Wichard 2673). Both require roughly equally easy
                              modifications for
                              > kiteboarding use, but the 2673 releases just as reliably (tip
                              pivot) at
                              > about 2/3 the price, & can be set up so pulling a "grab-ball" in ANY
                              > direction releases it. There are photos in my group file folder.
                              >
                              > Mel
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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