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Re: [ksurfschool] Re: To chicken loop or not?

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  • Hung Vu
    ... When you are in the chicken loop and overpowered (the wind is at or above the max range of the kite), there is NO WAY to remove yourself from the loop. ...
    Message 1 of 19 , Mar 7, 2002
      airdoodle wrote:
      > Unless you mean that when in the chicken loop and overpowered
      > (hopefully not often, but as you say it happens)that you are in more
      > trouble due to the bar being pulled away from you and its harder to
      > control/handle? Is this what happens? I have not had this happen in
      > the chicken loop yet, plenty of times in the main loop.

      When you are in the chicken loop and overpowered (the wind is at or
      above the max range of the kite), there is NO WAY to remove yourself
      from the loop.

      > How is the chicken loop any different in this respect from the main
      > or fixed loop? IS this because you need to haul down on the bar
      > along the center line when in the chicken loop to even get to the
      > point where you can use the bar to force the loop down, where as in
      > the main loop you just need to move the bar a little ways (does this
      > difference really matter when you up against you body weight 5 ft in
      > the air?)???

      Never have any problem releasing the main loop. Never be able to
      release the chicken loop in wind at or above the max range of the kite.

      The reasons are two folds: first, the chicken loop is much shorter
      therefore your arm anatomy make it much harder to release it than the
      main loop; second, when you slide the bar down to reach the chicken loop
      to release it, this action "empower" the kite and make it even harder to
      release the chicken loop.

      P.S., Attaching oneself to the kite (via a snap shackle) may be better
      but the best is to use a snap shackle right on the loop or a releasable
      harness hook (Prolimit or a "battery ribbon release" system - if they
      are working).

      P.P.S., The simpler option is not to use the chicken loop at all...

      Hung.
    • Mel
      ... Trim LINES are great. It s the LOOP that s the biggest problem. Make the loop itself too small to hook to the harness, & use a good snap shackle to
      Message 2 of 19 , Mar 7, 2002
        fernmanus <fernmanus@...> wrote:

        > A good snap shackle system can help you release from the chicken loop
        > when you are way overpowered. I personally would never do away with
        > the chicken loop.

        Trim LINES are great. It's the LOOP that's the biggest problem. Make the
        loop itself too small to hook to the harness, & use a good snap shackle to
        connect it instead. That way you can nearly always get out when you need
        to.

        Mel
      • Remtgnow@AOL.com
        how many scheckels for that shackle? t-8? Phil Burke
        Message 3 of 19 , Mar 7, 2002
          how many scheckels for that shackle? t-8?
          Phil Burke
        • Mike Soultanian
          I was looking at the Tylaska T-8 Shackle.. do you have to stick your finger in the little hole and push the lever to release it? mike
          Message 4 of 19 , Mar 7, 2002
            I was looking at the Tylaska T-8 Shackle.. do you have to stick your
            finger in the little hole and push the lever to release it?

            mike


            Philip wrote:
            >
            > A note on Shackles. Do not Screw around! Get the Trigger release shackle
            > Tylaska T-8.
            > There are less expensive shackles for sure, but saving $50-$60-or even
            > $100 bucks means nothing when you cannot release your self from the
            > kite. Weather you get them from me or not is irrelevant! Just get one.
            > Shackles with Pins become increasingly difficult to open as the load
            > goes up and the friction builds on the pin.
            > The Tylaska will release under huge load very easily as the trigger is
            > not influenced by the load on the shackle.
            >
            > Moral- Don't try to save shekels when buying a shackle, If the pin gets
            > stuck you are out of luck.
            > In safety, trying to save a nickel may mean a trip to the
            > hospital.
            >
            > Have Fun, Be Safe!
            >
            > Philip
            >
            >
            > Philip Mann
            > Inland Sea Windsurf Co.
            > http://www.inlandsea.com
            > Kitesite.net
            > http://www.kitesite.net
            > toll free 888-465-2632
            >
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Mel [mailto:kitebord@...]
            > Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 10:27 AM
            > To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Re: To chicken loop or not?
            >
            > fernmanus <fernmanus@...> wrote:
            >
            > > A good snap shackle system can help you release from the chicken loop
            > > when you are way overpowered. I personally would never do away with
            > > the chicken loop.
            >
            > Trim LINES are great. It's the LOOP that's the biggest problem. Make
            > the loop itself too small to hook to the harness, & use a good snap
            > shackle to connect it instead. That way you can nearly always get out
            > when you need to.
            >
            > Mel
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          • Philip
            A note on Shackles. Do not Screw around! Get the Trigger release shackle Tylaska T-8. There are less expensive shackles for sure, but saving $50-$60-or even
            Message 5 of 19 , Mar 7, 2002
              A note on Shackles. Do not Screw around! Get the Trigger release shackle
              Tylaska T-8.
              There are less expensive shackles for sure, but saving $50-$60-or even
              $100 bucks means nothing when you cannot release your self from the
              kite. Weather you get them from me or not is irrelevant! Just get one.
              Shackles with Pins become increasingly difficult to open as the load
              goes up and the friction builds on the pin.
              The Tylaska will release under huge load very easily as the trigger is
              not influenced by the load on the shackle.

              Moral- Don't try to save shekels when buying a shackle, If the pin gets
              stuck you are out of luck.
              In safety, trying to save a nickel may mean a trip to the
              hospital.

              Have Fun, Be Safe!


              Philip




              Philip Mann
              Inland Sea Windsurf Co.
              http://www.inlandsea.com
              Kitesite.net
              http://www.kitesite.net
              toll free 888-465-2632



              -----Original Message-----
              From: Mel [mailto:kitebord@...]
              Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 10:27 AM
              To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Re: To chicken loop or not?


              fernmanus <fernmanus@...> wrote:

              > A good snap shackle system can help you release from the chicken loop
              > when you are way overpowered. I personally would never do away with
              > the chicken loop.

              Trim LINES are great. It's the LOOP that's the biggest problem. Make
              the loop itself too small to hook to the harness, & use a good snap
              shackle to connect it instead. That way you can nearly always get out
              when you need to.

              Mel





              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            • Hung Vu
              Mel, I think Mel start to see the light ... Yes, the trim line is great... Even me I use the trim strap (which in turn shortens or lengthens the trim line).
              Message 6 of 19 , Mar 7, 2002
                Mel,

                I think Mel start to see the "light"...

                Yes, the trim line is great... Even me I use the trim strap (which in
                turn shortens or lengthens the trim line).

                It's the LOOP that is dangerous and should be banned unless they shipped
                a snap shackle loop as the standard device.

                Some "simplicist" like me just simply drop the loop...

                Hung.

                Mel wrote:
                >
                > fernmanus <fernmanus@...> wrote:
                >
                > > A good snap shackle system can help you release from the chicken loop
                > > when you are way overpowered. I personally would never do away with
                > > the chicken loop.
                >
                > Trim LINES are great. It's the LOOP that's the biggest problem. Make the
                > loop itself too small to hook to the harness, & use a good snap shackle to
                > connect it instead. That way you can nearly always get out when you need
                > to.
                >
                > Mel
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              • Dwight & Jacky
                You do if you don t buy the specially modified T-8 sold for kiting. I think they show it at NSI s web site. Dwight
                Message 7 of 19 , Mar 7, 2002
                  You do if you don't buy the specially modified T-8 sold for kiting. I think they show it at NSI's
                  web site.

                  Dwight


                  > I was looking at the Tylaska T-8 Shackle.. do you have to stick your
                  > finger in the little hole and push the lever to release it?
                  >
                  > mike
                • airdoodle
                  ... in ... they shipped ... Ok- Let me see if I can restate this to be sure I understand and to summarize everything. There seem to be three issues: 1) Is the
                  Message 8 of 19 , Mar 8, 2002
                    --- In ksurfschool@y..., Hung Vu <hungvu@n...> wrote:
                    > Mel,
                    >
                    > I think Mel start to see the "light"...
                    >
                    > Yes, the trim line is great... Even me I use the trim strap (which
                    in
                    > turn shortens or lengthens the trim line).
                    >
                    > It's the LOOP that is dangerous and should be banned unless
                    they shipped
                    > a snap shackle loop as the standard device.
                    >
                    > Some "simplicist" like me just simply drop the loop...
                    >
                    > Hung.
                    >
                    >
                    Ok- Let me see if I can restate this to be sure I understand and
                    to summarize everything. There seem to be three issues:

                    1) Is the chicken loop a good device to control the kite.
                    Yes.... under all conditions it allows you to have less
                    power than you otherwise would so this is "safe"

                    2) Is the chicken loop safe to be hooked into.
                    I am a bit confused....

                    two points seem to be being made, both sound correct

                    It is not safe because if you get overpowered with the bar fully
                    out you are really in trouble because you need to pull it in to
                    get out of the loop and doing so increases (A LOT) the
                    power to you in an allready bad situation. This makes sense.

                    It is also not safe because the loop is too small to release...
                    Can someone explain this to me at the first grade level

                    So, the final summary seems to be, if we had (and we do) a way
                    to more or less guarantee that you could get out of the chicken
                    loop without pulling the bar in then the chicken loop would be the
                    preferred (lets not argue about style of riding, just emphasize
                    safety for beginners) system to use.

                    So, shicken loop plus snapshackle = kite control + safety

                    Any suggestions about waiting for the prolimit v.s. buying a snap
                    shackle today?

                    Matthew
                  • Mike Soultanian
                    Is releasing this shackle something that s relatively easy to do? I can t really tell from the picture what needs to be done to open it. Also, if you release
                    Message 9 of 19 , Mar 8, 2002
                      Is releasing this shackle something that's relatively easy to do? I
                      can't really tell from the picture what needs to be done to open it.

                      Also, if you release it under pressure, it looks like the thing will
                      flip open real fast and whack you in the hand.

                      Is this an issue?

                      Thanks,
                      Mike


                      Philip wrote:
                      >
                      > Mike,
                      >
                      > The Shackle itself does require that you insert a finger to set off the
                      > trigger.
                      > What North Shore has done is to manufacturer a Trigger release that is
                      > simple but only requires you to grab down at the bar and flick it and
                      > the shackle releases.
                      > The picture is at the following link.
                      >
                      > http://www.kitesite.net/products/nsi/kiteshacklesetup.jpg
                      >
                      > Philip Mann
                      > Inland Sea Windsurf Co.
                      > http://www.inlandsea.com
                      > Kitesite.net
                      > http://www.kitesite.net
                      > toll free 888-465-2632
                      >
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: Mike Soultanian [mailto:msoultan@...]
                      > Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 1:27 PM
                      > To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Re: To chicken loop or not?- Note on shackels
                      >
                      > I was looking at the Tylaska T-8 Shackle.. do you have to stick your
                      > finger in the little hole and push the lever to release it?
                      >
                      > mike
                      >
                      > Philip wrote:
                      > >
                      > > A note on Shackles. Do not Screw around! Get the Trigger release
                      > > shackle Tylaska T-8. There are less expensive shackles for sure, but
                      > > saving $50-$60-or even $100 bucks means nothing when you cannot
                      > > release your self from the kite. Weather you get them from me or not
                      > > is irrelevant! Just get one. Shackles with Pins become increasingly
                      > > difficult to open as the load goes up and the friction builds on the
                      > > pin. The Tylaska will release under huge load very easily as the
                      > > trigger is not influenced by the load on the shackle.
                      > >
                      > > Moral- Don't try to save shekels when buying a shackle, If the pin
                      > > gets stuck you are out of luck.
                      > > In safety, trying to save a nickel may mean a trip to the
                      > > hospital.
                      > >
                      > > Have Fun, Be Safe!
                      > >
                      > > Philip
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Philip Mann
                      > > Inland Sea Windsurf Co.
                      > > http://www.inlandsea.com
                      > > Kitesite.net
                      > > http://www.kitesite.net
                      > > toll free 888-465-2632
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > -----Original Message-----
                      > > From: Mel [mailto:kitebord@...]
                      > > Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 10:27 AM
                      > > To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Re: To chicken loop or not?
                      > >
                      > > fernmanus <fernmanus@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > > A good snap shackle system can help you release from the chicken
                      > > > loop when you are way overpowered. I personally would never do away
                      >
                      > > > with the chicken loop.
                      > >
                      > > Trim LINES are great. It's the LOOP that's the biggest problem. Make
                      >
                      > > the loop itself too small to hook to the harness, & use a good snap
                      > > shackle to connect it instead. That way you can nearly always get out
                      >
                      > > when you need to.
                      > >
                      > > Mel
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                      > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                      > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    • Philip
                      Phil, The T8 is $121.00 delivered/ There is also a pre set up harness bar set up that is nice. You can se them at.
                      Message 10 of 19 , Mar 8, 2002
                        Phil,

                        The T8 is $121.00 delivered/
                        There is also a pre set up harness bar set up that is nice.

                        You can se them at.
                        http://www.kitesite.net/products/mainframe_bars.htm

                        On the bottom right.

                        Let me know what questions you may have.

                        Philip




                        Philip Mann
                        Inland Sea Windsurf Co.
                        http://www.inlandsea.com
                        Kitesite.net
                        http://www.kitesite.net
                        toll free 888-465-2632



                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Remtgnow@... [mailto:Remtgnow@...]
                        Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 1:23 PM
                        To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Re: To chicken loop or not?- Note on shackels


                        how many scheckels for that shackle? t-8?
                        Phil Burke




                        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      • Philip
                        Mike, The Shackle itself does require that you insert a finger to set off the trigger. What North Shore has done is to manufacturer a Trigger release that is
                        Message 11 of 19 , Mar 8, 2002
                          Mike,

                          The Shackle itself does require that you insert a finger to set off the
                          trigger.
                          What North Shore has done is to manufacturer a Trigger release that is
                          simple but only requires you to grab down at the bar and flick it and
                          the shackle releases.
                          The picture is at the following link.

                          http://www.kitesite.net/products/nsi/kiteshacklesetup.jpg

                          Philip Mann
                          Inland Sea Windsurf Co.
                          http://www.inlandsea.com
                          Kitesite.net
                          http://www.kitesite.net
                          toll free 888-465-2632



                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Mike Soultanian [mailto:msoultan@...]
                          Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 1:27 PM
                          To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Re: To chicken loop or not?- Note on shackels


                          I was looking at the Tylaska T-8 Shackle.. do you have to stick your
                          finger in the little hole and push the lever to release it?

                          mike


                          Philip wrote:
                          >
                          > A note on Shackles. Do not Screw around! Get the Trigger release
                          > shackle Tylaska T-8. There are less expensive shackles for sure, but
                          > saving $50-$60-or even $100 bucks means nothing when you cannot
                          > release your self from the kite. Weather you get them from me or not
                          > is irrelevant! Just get one. Shackles with Pins become increasingly
                          > difficult to open as the load goes up and the friction builds on the
                          > pin. The Tylaska will release under huge load very easily as the
                          > trigger is not influenced by the load on the shackle.
                          >
                          > Moral- Don't try to save shekels when buying a shackle, If the pin
                          > gets stuck you are out of luck.
                          > In safety, trying to save a nickel may mean a trip to the
                          > hospital.
                          >
                          > Have Fun, Be Safe!
                          >
                          > Philip
                          >
                          >
                          > Philip Mann
                          > Inland Sea Windsurf Co.
                          > http://www.inlandsea.com
                          > Kitesite.net
                          > http://www.kitesite.net
                          > toll free 888-465-2632
                          >
                          >
                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: Mel [mailto:kitebord@...]
                          > Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 10:27 AM
                          > To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Re: To chicken loop or not?
                          >
                          > fernmanus <fernmanus@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > > A good snap shackle system can help you release from the chicken
                          > > loop when you are way overpowered. I personally would never do away

                          > > with the chicken loop.
                          >
                          > Trim LINES are great. It's the LOOP that's the biggest problem. Make

                          > the loop itself too small to hook to the harness, & use a good snap
                          > shackle to connect it instead. That way you can nearly always get out

                          > when you need to.
                          >
                          > Mel
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                          > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                          > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




                          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        • Mel
                          ... Actually Hung, I saw the light a couple of years ago after about the third time I used a 4-line sled, & have been an anti-loop snapshackle advocate ever
                          Message 12 of 19 , Mar 9, 2002
                            Hung Vu <hungvu@n...> wrote:

                            > I think Mel start to see the "light"...
                            > It's the LOOP that is dangerous and should be banned unless
                            > they shipped
                            > a snap shackle loop as the standard device.

                            Actually Hung, I "saw the light" a couple of years ago after about the third
                            time I used a 4-line sled, & have been an anti-loop snapshackle advocate
                            ever since.

                            AND airdoodle <matthew.hockin@...> wrote:

                            > Any suggestions about waiting for the prolimit v.s. buying a snap
                            > shackle today?

                            1) Don't risk your life for the next few weeks (I just heard it will be
                            mid-to-late April before they're here), just in case they end up working
                            better (making you feel like you "wasted" $60, just to save a trip to the
                            emergency room).

                            2) An advantage to the snapshackle is that it keeps you hooked in when a
                            loop may fall off a hook (releasable or otherwise) when you don't want it
                            to. Advantages of the ProLimit include the ability to unhook from a trim
                            loop when you DO want to, as well as the ability to release from a main
                            harness line.

                            On the snapshackle itself, www.westmarine.com # 214700 is a Wichard "trigger
                            release" that's less expensive than the Tylaska T-8, but I still prefer #
                            583940 (Wichard 2673). Both require roughly equally easy modifications for
                            kiteboarding use, but the 2673 releases just as reliably (tip pivot) at
                            about 2/3 the price, & can be set up so pulling a "grab-ball" in ANY
                            direction releases it. There are photos in my group file folder.

                            Mel
                          • Pauric
                            I ve seen some 2001 airblast main loops with a flexible plastic pipe. The pipe extends past the loop by an inch or so and fits *in* to the speader hook after
                            Message 13 of 19 , Mar 12, 2002
                              I've seen some 2001 airblast main loops with a flexible plastic pipe. The pipe extends past the loop by an inch or so and fits *in* to the speader hook after the loop goes on. This stops the loop droping off and is relatively easy to remove under normal conditions

                              What are people's experience of this, how hard is to to release under pressure?

                              thanks
                              p

                              To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
                              cc:
                              Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Re: To chicken loop or not?

                              Hung Vu <hungvu@n...> wrote:

                              > I think Mel start to see the "light"...
                              > It's the LOOP that is dangerous and should be banned unless
                              > they shipped
                              > a snap shackle loop as the standard device.

                              Actually Hung, I "saw the light" a couple of years ago after about the third
                              time I used a 4-line sled, & have been an anti-loop snapshackle advocate
                              ever since.

                              AND airdoodle <matthew.hockin@...> wrote:

                              > Any suggestions about waiting for the prolimit v.s. buying a snap
                              > shackle today?

                              1) Don't risk your life for the next few weeks (I just heard it will be
                              mid-to-late April before they're here), just in case they end up working
                              better (making you feel like you "wasted" $60, just to save a trip to the
                              emergency room).

                              2) An advantage to the snapshackle is that it keeps you hooked in when a
                              loop may fall off a hook (releasable or otherwise) when you don't want it
                              to. Advantages of the ProLimit include the ability to unhook from a trim
                              loop when you DO want to, as well as the ability to release from a main
                              harness line.

                              On the snapshackle itself, www.westmarine.com # 214700 is a Wichard "trigger
                              release" that's less expensive than the Tylaska T-8, but I still prefer #
                              583940 (Wichard 2673). Both require roughly equally easy modifications for
                              kiteboarding use, but the 2673 releases just as reliably (tip pivot) at
                              about 2/3 the price, & can be set up so pulling a "grab-ball" in ANY
                              direction releases it. There are photos in my group file folder.

                              Mel





                              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Philip
                              P. The Chicken Loop with the tube is not easy to get out of under load. In general chicken loops are hard to get out of in an emergency situation and the Tube
                              Message 14 of 19 , Mar 12, 2002
                                P.

                                The Chicken Loop with the tube is not easy to get out of under load. In
                                general chicken loops are hard to get out of in an emergency situation
                                and the Tube doesn't help.

                                Philip

                                Philip Mann
                                Inland Sea Windsurf Co.
                                http://www.inlandsea.com
                                Kitesite.net
                                http://www.kitesite.net
                                toll free 888-465-2632



                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Pauric [mailto:paurico@...]
                                Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 6:06 AM
                                To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Re: To chicken loop or not?


                                I've seen some 2001 airblast main loops with a flexible plastic pipe.
                                The pipe extends past the loop by an inch or so and fits *in* to the
                                speader hook after the loop goes on. This stops the loop droping off
                                and is relatively easy to remove under normal conditions

                                What are people's experience of this, how hard is to to release under
                                pressure?

                                thanks
                                p

                                To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
                                cc:
                                Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Re: To chicken loop or not?

                                Hung Vu <hungvu@n...> wrote:

                                > I think Mel start to see the "light"...
                                > It's the LOOP that is dangerous and should be banned unless they
                                > shipped a snap shackle loop as the standard device.

                                Actually Hung, I "saw the light" a couple of years ago after about the
                                third time I used a 4-line sled, & have been an anti-loop snapshackle
                                advocate ever since.

                                AND airdoodle <matthew.hockin@...> wrote:

                                > Any suggestions about waiting for the prolimit v.s. buying a snap
                                > shackle today?

                                1) Don't risk your life for the next few weeks (I just heard it will be
                                mid-to-late April before they're here), just in case they end up working
                                better (making you feel like you "wasted" $60, just to save a trip to
                                the emergency room).

                                2) An advantage to the snapshackle is that it keeps you hooked in when a
                                loop may fall off a hook (releasable or otherwise) when you don't want
                                it to. Advantages of the ProLimit include the ability to unhook from a
                                trim loop when you DO want to, as well as the ability to release from a
                                main harness line.

                                On the snapshackle itself, www.westmarine.com # 214700 is a Wichard
                                "trigger release" that's less expensive than the Tylaska T-8, but I
                                still prefer # 583940 (Wichard 2673). Both require roughly equally easy
                                modifications for kiteboarding use, but the 2673 releases just as
                                reliably (tip pivot) at about 2/3 the price, & can be set up so pulling
                                a "grab-ball" in ANY direction releases it. There are photos in my group
                                file folder.

                                Mel





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                              • callum_downie
                                Harder than a normal loop without the extra tubing, and a normal loop is close to imposible if you have enough power to dangerously loft you. Wipika now make
                                Message 15 of 19 , Mar 12, 2002
                                  Harder than a normal loop without the extra tubing, and a normal loop
                                  is close to imposible if you have enough power to dangerously loft
                                  you.

                                  Wipika now make these loops with a release mechanism where the loop
                                  joins the center rope to allow you to easily release, I am unsure of
                                  how reliably these release.

                                  Callum

                                  --- In ksurfschool@y..., "Pauric" <paurico@p...> wrote:
                                  > I've seen some 2001 airblast main loops with a flexible plastic
                                  pipe. The pipe extends past the loop by an inch or so and fits *in*
                                  to the speader hook after the loop goes on. This stops the loop
                                  droping off and is relatively easy to remove under normal conditions
                                  >
                                  > What are people's experience of this, how hard is to to release
                                  under pressure?
                                  >
                                  > thanks
                                  > p
                                  >
                                  > To: ksurfschool@y...
                                  > cc:
                                  > Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Re: To chicken loop or not?
                                  >
                                  > Hung Vu <hungvu@n...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > I think Mel start to see the "light"...
                                  > > It's the LOOP that is dangerous and should be banned unless
                                  > > they shipped
                                  > > a snap shackle loop as the standard device.
                                  >
                                  > Actually Hung, I "saw the light" a couple of years ago after about
                                  the third
                                  > time I used a 4-line sled, & have been an anti-loop snapshackle
                                  advocate
                                  > ever since.
                                  >
                                  > AND airdoodle <matthew.hockin@h...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > Any suggestions about waiting for the prolimit v.s. buying a snap
                                  > > shackle today?
                                  >
                                  > 1) Don't risk your life for the next few weeks (I just heard it
                                  will be
                                  > mid-to-late April before they're here), just in case they end up
                                  working
                                  > better (making you feel like you "wasted" $60, just to save a trip
                                  to the
                                  > emergency room).
                                  >
                                  > 2) An advantage to the snapshackle is that it keeps you hooked in
                                  when a
                                  > loop may fall off a hook (releasable or otherwise) when you don't
                                  want it
                                  > to. Advantages of the ProLimit include the ability to unhook from a
                                  trim
                                  > loop when you DO want to, as well as the ability to release from a
                                  main
                                  > harness line.
                                  >
                                  > On the snapshackle itself, www.westmarine.com # 214700 is a
                                  Wichard "trigger
                                  > release" that's less expensive than the Tylaska T-8, but I still
                                  prefer #
                                  > 583940 (Wichard 2673). Both require roughly equally easy
                                  modifications for
                                  > kiteboarding use, but the 2673 releases just as reliably (tip
                                  pivot) at
                                  > about 2/3 the price, & can be set up so pulling a "grab-ball" in ANY
                                  > direction releases it. There are photos in my group file folder.
                                  >
                                  > Mel
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                  http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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