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Re: [ksurfschool] Re: To chicken loop or not?

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  • Hung Vu
    ... When you are in the chicken loop and overpowered (the wind is at or above the max range of the kite), there is NO WAY to remove yourself from the loop. ...
    Message 1 of 19 , Mar 7, 2002
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      airdoodle wrote:
      > Unless you mean that when in the chicken loop and overpowered
      > (hopefully not often, but as you say it happens)that you are in more
      > trouble due to the bar being pulled away from you and its harder to
      > control/handle? Is this what happens? I have not had this happen in
      > the chicken loop yet, plenty of times in the main loop.

      When you are in the chicken loop and overpowered (the wind is at or
      above the max range of the kite), there is NO WAY to remove yourself
      from the loop.

      > How is the chicken loop any different in this respect from the main
      > or fixed loop? IS this because you need to haul down on the bar
      > along the center line when in the chicken loop to even get to the
      > point where you can use the bar to force the loop down, where as in
      > the main loop you just need to move the bar a little ways (does this
      > difference really matter when you up against you body weight 5 ft in
      > the air?)???

      Never have any problem releasing the main loop. Never be able to
      release the chicken loop in wind at or above the max range of the kite.

      The reasons are two folds: first, the chicken loop is much shorter
      therefore your arm anatomy make it much harder to release it than the
      main loop; second, when you slide the bar down to reach the chicken loop
      to release it, this action "empower" the kite and make it even harder to
      release the chicken loop.

      P.S., Attaching oneself to the kite (via a snap shackle) may be better
      but the best is to use a snap shackle right on the loop or a releasable
      harness hook (Prolimit or a "battery ribbon release" system - if they
      are working).

      P.P.S., The simpler option is not to use the chicken loop at all...

      Hung.
    • fernmanus
      Hung, Have you ever flown a very large kite in gusty conditions? Say a 16 meter plus size inflatable? I agree that the chicken loop is not necessary when
      Message 2 of 19 , Mar 7, 2002
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        Hung,

        Have you ever flown a very large kite in gusty conditions? Say a 16
        meter plus size inflatable? I agree that the chicken loop is not
        necessary when flying smaller kites. On kites that are 11.5 (Naish
        sizing) and smaller it is easy to fly the kite forward in the window
        and just edge when you are overpowered. This is just not possible on
        the big inflatables.

        If you live in an area where the wind is not consistent, you can go
        out with a kite that is one size larger than what you would not using
        the loop. Then if the wind drops, you are still on the water. If it
        increases, you can jump that much higher.

        It is also easier to ride toeside while in the chicken loop.

        I disagree with eliminating the chicken loop. Rather manufacturers
        should start incorporating safety systems (snap shackles) to prevent
        serious injuries.

        Kenny

        --- In ksurfschool@y..., Hung Vu <hungvu@n...> wrote:
        > The recent kitesurfing incident in Florida prompt me to start
        doubting
        > the future of chicken loop as a "standard" kitesurfing device.
        >
        > The chicken loop should be banned as it is too DANGEROUS and also
        does
        > more harm than good in improving a kitesurfer skill (ironically, as
        I
        > was one of the first ones to "invent" or support the chicken loop
        in the
        > early days).
        >
        > Two years ago I had a tea-bagging incident that luckily did not turn
        > into any nasty accident as I managed to forcefully land the kite in
        the
        > water while being lifted 5' up in the air (I was in the chicken
        loop,
        > and COULD NOT GET OUT OF IT, being tea-bagged by my 11.5 in very
        strong
        > gusty wind from very far to almost 100' to shore before being able
        to
        > forcefully land the kite).
        >
        > Since then I have never used the chicken loop and actually enjoyed
        > kitesurfing much better (the SOLID feeling of the kite power in your
        > hands and the SATISFACTION in being able to edge harder to counter
        any
        > extreme force that the kite can throw at you).
        >
        > Those who use the chicken loop never know how much edging/depowering
        > their legs can do.
        >
        > Those who use the chicken loop never know how much kite power their
        arms
        > (or body) can hang on to.
        >
        > Without the chicken loop, one's arms and legs have to work MUCH
        HARDER
        > but that's is what one probably wants in the first place (instead of
        > paying money to work out at the gym)... Not counting the higher
        altitude
        > one can achieve...
        >
        > P.S., Not using the chicken loop also allows one to KNOW HOW TO USE
        > other types of kites such as 2 line inflatables and foils.
        >
        > P.P.S., The chicken loop should be considered as AN OPTIONAL
        ACCESSORY
        > of kitesurfing but not a STANDARD element of kitesurfing as it has
        been.
        >
        > Hung.
      • Mel
        ... Trim LINES are great. It s the LOOP that s the biggest problem. Make the loop itself too small to hook to the harness, & use a good snap shackle to
        Message 3 of 19 , Mar 7, 2002
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          fernmanus <fernmanus@...> wrote:

          > A good snap shackle system can help you release from the chicken loop
          > when you are way overpowered. I personally would never do away with
          > the chicken loop.

          Trim LINES are great. It's the LOOP that's the biggest problem. Make the
          loop itself too small to hook to the harness, & use a good snap shackle to
          connect it instead. That way you can nearly always get out when you need
          to.

          Mel
        • Remtgnow@AOL.com
          how many scheckels for that shackle? t-8? Phil Burke
          Message 4 of 19 , Mar 7, 2002
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            how many scheckels for that shackle? t-8?
            Phil Burke
          • Mike Soultanian
            I was looking at the Tylaska T-8 Shackle.. do you have to stick your finger in the little hole and push the lever to release it? mike
            Message 5 of 19 , Mar 7, 2002
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              I was looking at the Tylaska T-8 Shackle.. do you have to stick your
              finger in the little hole and push the lever to release it?

              mike


              Philip wrote:
              >
              > A note on Shackles. Do not Screw around! Get the Trigger release shackle
              > Tylaska T-8.
              > There are less expensive shackles for sure, but saving $50-$60-or even
              > $100 bucks means nothing when you cannot release your self from the
              > kite. Weather you get them from me or not is irrelevant! Just get one.
              > Shackles with Pins become increasingly difficult to open as the load
              > goes up and the friction builds on the pin.
              > The Tylaska will release under huge load very easily as the trigger is
              > not influenced by the load on the shackle.
              >
              > Moral- Don't try to save shekels when buying a shackle, If the pin gets
              > stuck you are out of luck.
              > In safety, trying to save a nickel may mean a trip to the
              > hospital.
              >
              > Have Fun, Be Safe!
              >
              > Philip
              >
              >
              > Philip Mann
              > Inland Sea Windsurf Co.
              > http://www.inlandsea.com
              > Kitesite.net
              > http://www.kitesite.net
              > toll free 888-465-2632
              >
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Mel [mailto:kitebord@...]
              > Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 10:27 AM
              > To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Re: To chicken loop or not?
              >
              > fernmanus <fernmanus@...> wrote:
              >
              > > A good snap shackle system can help you release from the chicken loop
              > > when you are way overpowered. I personally would never do away with
              > > the chicken loop.
              >
              > Trim LINES are great. It's the LOOP that's the biggest problem. Make
              > the loop itself too small to hook to the harness, & use a good snap
              > shackle to connect it instead. That way you can nearly always get out
              > when you need to.
              >
              > Mel
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            • Philip
              A note on Shackles. Do not Screw around! Get the Trigger release shackle Tylaska T-8. There are less expensive shackles for sure, but saving $50-$60-or even
              Message 6 of 19 , Mar 7, 2002
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                A note on Shackles. Do not Screw around! Get the Trigger release shackle
                Tylaska T-8.
                There are less expensive shackles for sure, but saving $50-$60-or even
                $100 bucks means nothing when you cannot release your self from the
                kite. Weather you get them from me or not is irrelevant! Just get one.
                Shackles with Pins become increasingly difficult to open as the load
                goes up and the friction builds on the pin.
                The Tylaska will release under huge load very easily as the trigger is
                not influenced by the load on the shackle.

                Moral- Don't try to save shekels when buying a shackle, If the pin gets
                stuck you are out of luck.
                In safety, trying to save a nickel may mean a trip to the
                hospital.

                Have Fun, Be Safe!


                Philip




                Philip Mann
                Inland Sea Windsurf Co.
                http://www.inlandsea.com
                Kitesite.net
                http://www.kitesite.net
                toll free 888-465-2632



                -----Original Message-----
                From: Mel [mailto:kitebord@...]
                Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 10:27 AM
                To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Re: To chicken loop or not?


                fernmanus <fernmanus@...> wrote:

                > A good snap shackle system can help you release from the chicken loop
                > when you are way overpowered. I personally would never do away with
                > the chicken loop.

                Trim LINES are great. It's the LOOP that's the biggest problem. Make
                the loop itself too small to hook to the harness, & use a good snap
                shackle to connect it instead. That way you can nearly always get out
                when you need to.

                Mel





                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              • Hung Vu
                Mel, I think Mel start to see the light ... Yes, the trim line is great... Even me I use the trim strap (which in turn shortens or lengthens the trim line).
                Message 7 of 19 , Mar 7, 2002
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                  Mel,

                  I think Mel start to see the "light"...

                  Yes, the trim line is great... Even me I use the trim strap (which in
                  turn shortens or lengthens the trim line).

                  It's the LOOP that is dangerous and should be banned unless they shipped
                  a snap shackle loop as the standard device.

                  Some "simplicist" like me just simply drop the loop...

                  Hung.

                  Mel wrote:
                  >
                  > fernmanus <fernmanus@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > A good snap shackle system can help you release from the chicken loop
                  > > when you are way overpowered. I personally would never do away with
                  > > the chicken loop.
                  >
                  > Trim LINES are great. It's the LOOP that's the biggest problem. Make the
                  > loop itself too small to hook to the harness, & use a good snap shackle to
                  > connect it instead. That way you can nearly always get out when you need
                  > to.
                  >
                  > Mel
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                • Dwight & Jacky
                  You do if you don t buy the specially modified T-8 sold for kiting. I think they show it at NSI s web site. Dwight
                  Message 8 of 19 , Mar 7, 2002
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                    You do if you don't buy the specially modified T-8 sold for kiting. I think they show it at NSI's
                    web site.

                    Dwight


                    > I was looking at the Tylaska T-8 Shackle.. do you have to stick your
                    > finger in the little hole and push the lever to release it?
                    >
                    > mike
                  • airdoodle
                    ... in ... they shipped ... Ok- Let me see if I can restate this to be sure I understand and to summarize everything. There seem to be three issues: 1) Is the
                    Message 9 of 19 , Mar 8, 2002
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                      --- In ksurfschool@y..., Hung Vu <hungvu@n...> wrote:
                      > Mel,
                      >
                      > I think Mel start to see the "light"...
                      >
                      > Yes, the trim line is great... Even me I use the trim strap (which
                      in
                      > turn shortens or lengthens the trim line).
                      >
                      > It's the LOOP that is dangerous and should be banned unless
                      they shipped
                      > a snap shackle loop as the standard device.
                      >
                      > Some "simplicist" like me just simply drop the loop...
                      >
                      > Hung.
                      >
                      >
                      Ok- Let me see if I can restate this to be sure I understand and
                      to summarize everything. There seem to be three issues:

                      1) Is the chicken loop a good device to control the kite.
                      Yes.... under all conditions it allows you to have less
                      power than you otherwise would so this is "safe"

                      2) Is the chicken loop safe to be hooked into.
                      I am a bit confused....

                      two points seem to be being made, both sound correct

                      It is not safe because if you get overpowered with the bar fully
                      out you are really in trouble because you need to pull it in to
                      get out of the loop and doing so increases (A LOT) the
                      power to you in an allready bad situation. This makes sense.

                      It is also not safe because the loop is too small to release...
                      Can someone explain this to me at the first grade level

                      So, the final summary seems to be, if we had (and we do) a way
                      to more or less guarantee that you could get out of the chicken
                      loop without pulling the bar in then the chicken loop would be the
                      preferred (lets not argue about style of riding, just emphasize
                      safety for beginners) system to use.

                      So, shicken loop plus snapshackle = kite control + safety

                      Any suggestions about waiting for the prolimit v.s. buying a snap
                      shackle today?

                      Matthew
                    • Mike Soultanian
                      Is releasing this shackle something that s relatively easy to do? I can t really tell from the picture what needs to be done to open it. Also, if you release
                      Message 10 of 19 , Mar 8, 2002
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                        Is releasing this shackle something that's relatively easy to do? I
                        can't really tell from the picture what needs to be done to open it.

                        Also, if you release it under pressure, it looks like the thing will
                        flip open real fast and whack you in the hand.

                        Is this an issue?

                        Thanks,
                        Mike


                        Philip wrote:
                        >
                        > Mike,
                        >
                        > The Shackle itself does require that you insert a finger to set off the
                        > trigger.
                        > What North Shore has done is to manufacturer a Trigger release that is
                        > simple but only requires you to grab down at the bar and flick it and
                        > the shackle releases.
                        > The picture is at the following link.
                        >
                        > http://www.kitesite.net/products/nsi/kiteshacklesetup.jpg
                        >
                        > Philip Mann
                        > Inland Sea Windsurf Co.
                        > http://www.inlandsea.com
                        > Kitesite.net
                        > http://www.kitesite.net
                        > toll free 888-465-2632
                        >
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: Mike Soultanian [mailto:msoultan@...]
                        > Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 1:27 PM
                        > To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Re: To chicken loop or not?- Note on shackels
                        >
                        > I was looking at the Tylaska T-8 Shackle.. do you have to stick your
                        > finger in the little hole and push the lever to release it?
                        >
                        > mike
                        >
                        > Philip wrote:
                        > >
                        > > A note on Shackles. Do not Screw around! Get the Trigger release
                        > > shackle Tylaska T-8. There are less expensive shackles for sure, but
                        > > saving $50-$60-or even $100 bucks means nothing when you cannot
                        > > release your self from the kite. Weather you get them from me or not
                        > > is irrelevant! Just get one. Shackles with Pins become increasingly
                        > > difficult to open as the load goes up and the friction builds on the
                        > > pin. The Tylaska will release under huge load very easily as the
                        > > trigger is not influenced by the load on the shackle.
                        > >
                        > > Moral- Don't try to save shekels when buying a shackle, If the pin
                        > > gets stuck you are out of luck.
                        > > In safety, trying to save a nickel may mean a trip to the
                        > > hospital.
                        > >
                        > > Have Fun, Be Safe!
                        > >
                        > > Philip
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Philip Mann
                        > > Inland Sea Windsurf Co.
                        > > http://www.inlandsea.com
                        > > Kitesite.net
                        > > http://www.kitesite.net
                        > > toll free 888-465-2632
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > -----Original Message-----
                        > > From: Mel [mailto:kitebord@...]
                        > > Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 10:27 AM
                        > > To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
                        > > Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Re: To chicken loop or not?
                        > >
                        > > fernmanus <fernmanus@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > > A good snap shackle system can help you release from the chicken
                        > > > loop when you are way overpowered. I personally would never do away
                        >
                        > > > with the chicken loop.
                        > >
                        > > Trim LINES are great. It's the LOOP that's the biggest problem. Make
                        >
                        > > the loop itself too small to hook to the harness, & use a good snap
                        > > shackle to connect it instead. That way you can nearly always get out
                        >
                        > > when you need to.
                        > >
                        > > Mel
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                        > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                        > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      • Philip
                        Phil, The T8 is $121.00 delivered/ There is also a pre set up harness bar set up that is nice. You can se them at.
                        Message 11 of 19 , Mar 8, 2002
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                          Phil,

                          The T8 is $121.00 delivered/
                          There is also a pre set up harness bar set up that is nice.

                          You can se them at.
                          http://www.kitesite.net/products/mainframe_bars.htm

                          On the bottom right.

                          Let me know what questions you may have.

                          Philip




                          Philip Mann
                          Inland Sea Windsurf Co.
                          http://www.inlandsea.com
                          Kitesite.net
                          http://www.kitesite.net
                          toll free 888-465-2632



                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Remtgnow@... [mailto:Remtgnow@...]
                          Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 1:23 PM
                          To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Re: To chicken loop or not?- Note on shackels


                          how many scheckels for that shackle? t-8?
                          Phil Burke




                          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        • Philip
                          Mike, The Shackle itself does require that you insert a finger to set off the trigger. What North Shore has done is to manufacturer a Trigger release that is
                          Message 12 of 19 , Mar 8, 2002
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                            Mike,

                            The Shackle itself does require that you insert a finger to set off the
                            trigger.
                            What North Shore has done is to manufacturer a Trigger release that is
                            simple but only requires you to grab down at the bar and flick it and
                            the shackle releases.
                            The picture is at the following link.

                            http://www.kitesite.net/products/nsi/kiteshacklesetup.jpg

                            Philip Mann
                            Inland Sea Windsurf Co.
                            http://www.inlandsea.com
                            Kitesite.net
                            http://www.kitesite.net
                            toll free 888-465-2632



                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Mike Soultanian [mailto:msoultan@...]
                            Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 1:27 PM
                            To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Re: To chicken loop or not?- Note on shackels


                            I was looking at the Tylaska T-8 Shackle.. do you have to stick your
                            finger in the little hole and push the lever to release it?

                            mike


                            Philip wrote:
                            >
                            > A note on Shackles. Do not Screw around! Get the Trigger release
                            > shackle Tylaska T-8. There are less expensive shackles for sure, but
                            > saving $50-$60-or even $100 bucks means nothing when you cannot
                            > release your self from the kite. Weather you get them from me or not
                            > is irrelevant! Just get one. Shackles with Pins become increasingly
                            > difficult to open as the load goes up and the friction builds on the
                            > pin. The Tylaska will release under huge load very easily as the
                            > trigger is not influenced by the load on the shackle.
                            >
                            > Moral- Don't try to save shekels when buying a shackle, If the pin
                            > gets stuck you are out of luck.
                            > In safety, trying to save a nickel may mean a trip to the
                            > hospital.
                            >
                            > Have Fun, Be Safe!
                            >
                            > Philip
                            >
                            >
                            > Philip Mann
                            > Inland Sea Windsurf Co.
                            > http://www.inlandsea.com
                            > Kitesite.net
                            > http://www.kitesite.net
                            > toll free 888-465-2632
                            >
                            >
                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: Mel [mailto:kitebord@...]
                            > Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 10:27 AM
                            > To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Re: To chicken loop or not?
                            >
                            > fernmanus <fernmanus@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > > A good snap shackle system can help you release from the chicken
                            > > loop when you are way overpowered. I personally would never do away

                            > > with the chicken loop.
                            >
                            > Trim LINES are great. It's the LOOP that's the biggest problem. Make

                            > the loop itself too small to hook to the harness, & use a good snap
                            > shackle to connect it instead. That way you can nearly always get out

                            > when you need to.
                            >
                            > Mel
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                            > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                            > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




                            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                            http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          • Mel
                            ... Actually Hung, I saw the light a couple of years ago after about the third time I used a 4-line sled, & have been an anti-loop snapshackle advocate ever
                            Message 13 of 19 , Mar 9, 2002
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                              Hung Vu <hungvu@n...> wrote:

                              > I think Mel start to see the "light"...
                              > It's the LOOP that is dangerous and should be banned unless
                              > they shipped
                              > a snap shackle loop as the standard device.

                              Actually Hung, I "saw the light" a couple of years ago after about the third
                              time I used a 4-line sled, & have been an anti-loop snapshackle advocate
                              ever since.

                              AND airdoodle <matthew.hockin@...> wrote:

                              > Any suggestions about waiting for the prolimit v.s. buying a snap
                              > shackle today?

                              1) Don't risk your life for the next few weeks (I just heard it will be
                              mid-to-late April before they're here), just in case they end up working
                              better (making you feel like you "wasted" $60, just to save a trip to the
                              emergency room).

                              2) An advantage to the snapshackle is that it keeps you hooked in when a
                              loop may fall off a hook (releasable or otherwise) when you don't want it
                              to. Advantages of the ProLimit include the ability to unhook from a trim
                              loop when you DO want to, as well as the ability to release from a main
                              harness line.

                              On the snapshackle itself, www.westmarine.com # 214700 is a Wichard "trigger
                              release" that's less expensive than the Tylaska T-8, but I still prefer #
                              583940 (Wichard 2673). Both require roughly equally easy modifications for
                              kiteboarding use, but the 2673 releases just as reliably (tip pivot) at
                              about 2/3 the price, & can be set up so pulling a "grab-ball" in ANY
                              direction releases it. There are photos in my group file folder.

                              Mel
                            • Pauric
                              I ve seen some 2001 airblast main loops with a flexible plastic pipe. The pipe extends past the loop by an inch or so and fits *in* to the speader hook after
                              Message 14 of 19 , Mar 12, 2002
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                                I've seen some 2001 airblast main loops with a flexible plastic pipe. The pipe extends past the loop by an inch or so and fits *in* to the speader hook after the loop goes on. This stops the loop droping off and is relatively easy to remove under normal conditions

                                What are people's experience of this, how hard is to to release under pressure?

                                thanks
                                p

                                To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
                                cc:
                                Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Re: To chicken loop or not?

                                Hung Vu <hungvu@n...> wrote:

                                > I think Mel start to see the "light"...
                                > It's the LOOP that is dangerous and should be banned unless
                                > they shipped
                                > a snap shackle loop as the standard device.

                                Actually Hung, I "saw the light" a couple of years ago after about the third
                                time I used a 4-line sled, & have been an anti-loop snapshackle advocate
                                ever since.

                                AND airdoodle <matthew.hockin@...> wrote:

                                > Any suggestions about waiting for the prolimit v.s. buying a snap
                                > shackle today?

                                1) Don't risk your life for the next few weeks (I just heard it will be
                                mid-to-late April before they're here), just in case they end up working
                                better (making you feel like you "wasted" $60, just to save a trip to the
                                emergency room).

                                2) An advantage to the snapshackle is that it keeps you hooked in when a
                                loop may fall off a hook (releasable or otherwise) when you don't want it
                                to. Advantages of the ProLimit include the ability to unhook from a trim
                                loop when you DO want to, as well as the ability to release from a main
                                harness line.

                                On the snapshackle itself, www.westmarine.com # 214700 is a Wichard "trigger
                                release" that's less expensive than the Tylaska T-8, but I still prefer #
                                583940 (Wichard 2673). Both require roughly equally easy modifications for
                                kiteboarding use, but the 2673 releases just as reliably (tip pivot) at
                                about 2/3 the price, & can be set up so pulling a "grab-ball" in ANY
                                direction releases it. There are photos in my group file folder.

                                Mel





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                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Philip
                                P. The Chicken Loop with the tube is not easy to get out of under load. In general chicken loops are hard to get out of in an emergency situation and the Tube
                                Message 15 of 19 , Mar 12, 2002
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  P.

                                  The Chicken Loop with the tube is not easy to get out of under load. In
                                  general chicken loops are hard to get out of in an emergency situation
                                  and the Tube doesn't help.

                                  Philip

                                  Philip Mann
                                  Inland Sea Windsurf Co.
                                  http://www.inlandsea.com
                                  Kitesite.net
                                  http://www.kitesite.net
                                  toll free 888-465-2632



                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: Pauric [mailto:paurico@...]
                                  Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 6:06 AM
                                  To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Re: To chicken loop or not?


                                  I've seen some 2001 airblast main loops with a flexible plastic pipe.
                                  The pipe extends past the loop by an inch or so and fits *in* to the
                                  speader hook after the loop goes on. This stops the loop droping off
                                  and is relatively easy to remove under normal conditions

                                  What are people's experience of this, how hard is to to release under
                                  pressure?

                                  thanks
                                  p

                                  To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
                                  cc:
                                  Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Re: To chicken loop or not?

                                  Hung Vu <hungvu@n...> wrote:

                                  > I think Mel start to see the "light"...
                                  > It's the LOOP that is dangerous and should be banned unless they
                                  > shipped a snap shackle loop as the standard device.

                                  Actually Hung, I "saw the light" a couple of years ago after about the
                                  third time I used a 4-line sled, & have been an anti-loop snapshackle
                                  advocate ever since.

                                  AND airdoodle <matthew.hockin@...> wrote:

                                  > Any suggestions about waiting for the prolimit v.s. buying a snap
                                  > shackle today?

                                  1) Don't risk your life for the next few weeks (I just heard it will be
                                  mid-to-late April before they're here), just in case they end up working
                                  better (making you feel like you "wasted" $60, just to save a trip to
                                  the emergency room).

                                  2) An advantage to the snapshackle is that it keeps you hooked in when a
                                  loop may fall off a hook (releasable or otherwise) when you don't want
                                  it to. Advantages of the ProLimit include the ability to unhook from a
                                  trim loop when you DO want to, as well as the ability to release from a
                                  main harness line.

                                  On the snapshackle itself, www.westmarine.com # 214700 is a Wichard
                                  "trigger release" that's less expensive than the Tylaska T-8, but I
                                  still prefer # 583940 (Wichard 2673). Both require roughly equally easy
                                  modifications for kiteboarding use, but the 2673 releases just as
                                  reliably (tip pivot) at about 2/3 the price, & can be set up so pulling
                                  a "grab-ball" in ANY direction releases it. There are photos in my group
                                  file folder.

                                  Mel





                                  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                  http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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                                • callum_downie
                                  Harder than a normal loop without the extra tubing, and a normal loop is close to imposible if you have enough power to dangerously loft you. Wipika now make
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Mar 12, 2002
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Harder than a normal loop without the extra tubing, and a normal loop
                                    is close to imposible if you have enough power to dangerously loft
                                    you.

                                    Wipika now make these loops with a release mechanism where the loop
                                    joins the center rope to allow you to easily release, I am unsure of
                                    how reliably these release.

                                    Callum

                                    --- In ksurfschool@y..., "Pauric" <paurico@p...> wrote:
                                    > I've seen some 2001 airblast main loops with a flexible plastic
                                    pipe. The pipe extends past the loop by an inch or so and fits *in*
                                    to the speader hook after the loop goes on. This stops the loop
                                    droping off and is relatively easy to remove under normal conditions
                                    >
                                    > What are people's experience of this, how hard is to to release
                                    under pressure?
                                    >
                                    > thanks
                                    > p
                                    >
                                    > To: ksurfschool@y...
                                    > cc:
                                    > Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Re: To chicken loop or not?
                                    >
                                    > Hung Vu <hungvu@n...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > I think Mel start to see the "light"...
                                    > > It's the LOOP that is dangerous and should be banned unless
                                    > > they shipped
                                    > > a snap shackle loop as the standard device.
                                    >
                                    > Actually Hung, I "saw the light" a couple of years ago after about
                                    the third
                                    > time I used a 4-line sled, & have been an anti-loop snapshackle
                                    advocate
                                    > ever since.
                                    >
                                    > AND airdoodle <matthew.hockin@h...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > Any suggestions about waiting for the prolimit v.s. buying a snap
                                    > > shackle today?
                                    >
                                    > 1) Don't risk your life for the next few weeks (I just heard it
                                    will be
                                    > mid-to-late April before they're here), just in case they end up
                                    working
                                    > better (making you feel like you "wasted" $60, just to save a trip
                                    to the
                                    > emergency room).
                                    >
                                    > 2) An advantage to the snapshackle is that it keeps you hooked in
                                    when a
                                    > loop may fall off a hook (releasable or otherwise) when you don't
                                    want it
                                    > to. Advantages of the ProLimit include the ability to unhook from a
                                    trim
                                    > loop when you DO want to, as well as the ability to release from a
                                    main
                                    > harness line.
                                    >
                                    > On the snapshackle itself, www.westmarine.com # 214700 is a
                                    Wichard "trigger
                                    > release" that's less expensive than the Tylaska T-8, but I still
                                    prefer #
                                    > 583940 (Wichard 2673). Both require roughly equally easy
                                    modifications for
                                    > kiteboarding use, but the 2673 releases just as reliably (tip
                                    pivot) at
                                    > about 2/3 the price, & can be set up so pulling a "grab-ball" in ANY
                                    > direction releases it. There are photos in my group file folder.
                                    >
                                    > Mel
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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