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Re: Digest Number 502

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  • callum_downie
    Hey Doug, I am in the same boat as you in a way. I started kiting because of the lightwind possibilitys as well, i moved to lighter wind area and I am a big
    Message 1 of 5 , Jan 1, 2002
      Hey Doug,

      I am in the same boat as you in a way. I started kiting because of
      the lightwind possibilitys as well, i moved to lighter wind area and
      I am a big guy 100kg - 220 pounds I think that works out to be.
      The good thing about kites is that as soon as you have enough power
      can hold you possition you have enough power to get some serious air.
      Sadly like windsurfing to kite in less then 10 knots requires some
      pretty specialist gear... and then it isn't that much fun, it's more
      of just a cruise.

      From what I have heard the 14 arc won't have enough mumbo for what
      youy want. Could try a flexi foil 9.0 blade II. You probably want to
      use that beast on handles.

      Or by the time you have spent that much on gear you may as well buy a
      power boat and go wakeboarding....

      Later,
      Callum.

      Ps. we are doomed for wind here now, just swapped my rrd 11.9 type IV
      monster for a new airush, bound to get no breeze now... at least this
      might help them get the bush fires under control.

      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "Doug Kitchen" <doug@c...>
      > To: <ksurfschool@y...>
      > Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 1:28 PM
      > Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Digest Number 502
      >
      >
      > > Hi Everyone,
      > > I started kitesurfing because I was tired of sitting on the
      beach
      > waiting
      > > for wind for my windsurfer. I fugure I can ride my 8'8 90 litre
      wave
      > board
      > > in 12 knots with a 5.6 wave sail. I started with a Wipika 11.0
      meter Free
      > > Air. I realize now that I need at least 15 knots for this kite.
      I bought
      > a
      > > RRD 14.9, the sad truth is I need 12 knots with this kite. I
      weigh 190 lbs
      > > and am riding a 6.6 directional. I understand that foils are
      better than
      > > frame kites in light wind. Can anyone recommend me a foil that
      will get me
      > > powered up in 5-10 knots.Does anyone know if the Peter Lynn 14.0
      > > m ARC ever got released and what kind of performance I can
      expect out of
      > > it.Am I expecting too much? I started kitesurfing because I heard
      about
      > the
      > > light wind possibilities,but now I wonder but Iam hooked now so
      there is
      > no
      > > turning back.
      > > Thanks,
      > > Doug
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: <ksurfschool@y...>
      > > To: <ksurfschool@y...>
      > > Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 2:59 PM
      > > Subject: [ksurfschool] Digest Number 502
      > >
      > >
      > > > There are 2 messages in this issue.
      > > >
      > > > Topics in this digest:
      > > >
      > > > 1. Re: Low AR .vs. high AR
      > > > From: "fernmanus" <fernmanus@y...>
      > > > 2. Re: New Year 2002 predictions
      > > > From: Hung Vu <hungvu@n...>
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      ______________________________________________________________________
      __
      > > >
      ______________________________________________________________________
      __
      > > >
      > > > Message: 1
      > > > Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 17:48:34 -0000
      > > > From: "fernmanus" <fernmanus@y...>
      > > > Subject: Re: Low AR .vs. high AR
      > > >
      > > > Hung,
      > > >
      > > > Good observations. I wish to add a couple more thoughts.
      > > >
      > > > Where I live the wind is generally light (Salt Lake City, UT).
      > > > Therefore, I use high AR kites. The primary reason is for
      jumping.
      > > > I have found the large high AR kites to be more responsive.
      When you
      > > > jump, the faster you can move the kite overhead, the more pop
      you
      > > > will have off the water. I found it very difficult to jump
      with slow
      > > > moving large kites.
      > > >
      > > > I have kite surfed in high wind conditions as well. In high
      wind
      > > > conditions a low AR is nice because the kite is more stable and
      will
      > > > feel less twitchy.
      > > >
      > > > Kenny
      > > >
      > > > --- In ksurfschool@y..., Hung Vu <hungvu@n...> wrote:
      > > > > Many people worldwide have asked me these questions and I have
      > > > answered
      > > > > many. I thought it would be useful to post them here:
      > > > >
      > > > > Use a low AR kite in high wind (above 20 knots)
      > > > >
      > > > > Use a high AR kite in low wind (below 10 knots)
      > > > >
      > > > > Between 10 - 20 knots use anything you have...
      > > > >
      > > > > So if you live in Maui or other high wind destinations (where
      most
      > > > pros
      > > > > are), don't need to buy a high AR kite.
      > > > >
      > > > > If you live in Ottawa, Canada, buy both high AR and low AR
      kite as
      > > > the
      > > > > wind can be anywhere between 5 - 45 knots.
      > > > >
      > > > > P.S. the assumption is that high AR kites are faster, it may
      not be
      > > > true
      > > > > for some kites...
      > > > >
      > > > > P.P.S. If you kiteski or want to go fast, high AR is the only
      > > > answer...
      > > > >
      > > > > P.P.P.S. What the pros want may not be what YOU want...
      > > > >
      > > > > Hung.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      ______________________________________________________________________
      __
      > > >
      ______________________________________________________________________
      __
      > > >
      > > > Message: 2
      > > > Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 22:34:40 -0500
      > > > From: Hung Vu <hungvu@n...>
      > > > Subject: Re: New Year 2002 predictions
      > > >
      > > > Chris,
      > > >
      > > > Very interesting! Let me add some more:
      > > >
      > > > -- Fins will start to disappear as kitesurfers start to realize
      that
      > > > fins are more costly, cumbersome than helpful
      > > >
      > > > -- With the new finless, properly shaped boards, kitesurfers
      start to go
      > > > as fast as windsurfers
      > > >
      > > > -- Foils will become more popular (than they are now) as they
      are faster
      > > > and jump higher
      > > >
      > > > -- People will realize that by inflating the leading edge with
      helium
      > > > will make inflatables less prone to the "dead seagull drop"
      (hahaha
      > > > someone has asked for it...)
      > > >
      > > > -- Properly shaped finless board will generate higher lift
      allow boards
      > > > to be smaller (120 x 30 cm range) and still ride in lower wind
      > > >
      > > > -- Handles will become more popular (than they are now) in
      lighter wind
      > > > as they are the best to manipulate foils in such extreme
      conditions
      > > >
      > > > -- Kites will be designed/marketed clearly in three different
      groups:
      > > > light wind, medium wind and high wind kites where low AR
      inflatable
      > > > dominate the high wind group, foils dominate the light wind
      group and
      > > > fierce competition for the medium group for many manufacturers
      > > >
      > > > Hung.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Ok, here's my predictions for kitesurfing next
      year,
      > > > 2002..
      > > >
      > > > -- Next years kites will all have more more
      wind range
      > > > ..because
      > > > that's what we all want.
      > > >
      > > > -- The end of picklefork boards. New board
      shapes will
      > > > have
      > > > more blunt tails.
      > > >
      > > > -- Footstraps will continue to be popular and
      will NOT
      > > > all be
      > > > replaced by full bindings.
      > > >
      > > > -- On new 4 line inflatables, rigid carbon
      battens at
      > > > the tips will
      > > > be common.
      > > >
      > > > -- Better safety release/leash systems will be
      marketed
      > > > (they can't
      > > > be worse than what is available now).
      > > >
      > > > -- All kite manufacturers will agree on a size
      standard
      > > > (ha
      > > > ha ..just kidding with this one).
      > > >
      > > > -- Someone will post a "new" idea to fill an
      inflatable
      > > > with helium
      > > > (ughh ..not again).
      > > >
      > > > -- Some products will fade into obscurity like
      reel
      > > > bars, high
      > > > volume boards, and using handles.
      > > >
      > > > -- Kite and board prices will drop somewhat due
      to
      > > > competition
      > > > (..not sure about this one).
      > > >
      > > > -- Kiting will become more mainstream and
      acceptable and
      > > > will NOT be
      > > > banned at many more beaches.
      > > >
      > > > -- The number of kite manufacturers will stop
      growing as
      > > > newcomers
      > > > find it hard to compete against the Naish,
      Wipika,
      > > > Cabrinha,
      > > > Slingshot, Peter Lynn, Airrush, North.
      > > >
      > > > -- Foil kites will do well in the very large
      sizes (over
      > > > 15.5AR5).
      > > >
      > > > -- Kites will come with long lines (>30m) for
      big kite
      > > > sizes and
      > > > shorter lines (<25m) for small kite sizes.
      > > >
      > > > -- Serious accidents will happen where helmet
      use could
      > > > have helped!
      > > >
      > > > -- Someone will break the hang time record with
      over 10
      > > > seconds.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Chris G
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      ______________________________________________________________________
      __
      > > >
      ______________________________________________________________________
      __
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      > >
      > >
    • Hung Vu
      ... Having responded to many enquiries world wide, I find that the most common problem for many kitesurfers trying to get into light wind kiting is using a
      Message 2 of 5 , Jan 2, 2002
        Doug Kitchen wrote:
        > Air. I realize now that I need at least 15 knots for this kite. I bought a
        > RRD 14.9, the sad truth is I need 12 knots with this kite. I weigh 190 lbs
        > and am riding a 6.6 directional. I understand that foils are better than
        > frame kites in light wind. Can anyone recommend me a foil that will get me
        > powered up in 5-10 knots.Does anyone know if the Peter Lynn 14.0
        > m ARC ever got released and what kind of performance I can expect out of
        > it.Am I expecting too much? I started kitesurfing because I heard about the
        > light wind possibilities,but now I wonder but Iam hooked now so there is no
        > turning back.

        Having responded to many enquiries world wide, I find that the most
        common problem for many kitesurfers trying to get into light wind kiting
        is using a kite too small.

        Kite size and rider weight is proportional so as the heavier kitesurfer,
        just get the biggest kite you can get your hand on.

        For foil, Flysurfer and ConceptAir currently make 16 m2 foil
        (unfortunately the current largest foils)

        For inflatables, the largest are Air Blast 16.4 or Naish 23 (roughtly
        equivalent to a 14 m2 foil)

        The Arc 14.0 is probably equivalent to a 10-11 m2 foil.

        P.S., If you cannot get a kite big enough, it helps to use a "larger"
        board (Stefano at 170 lbs use a 255 cm board for light wind - I at 125
        lbs use the 230 cm F-One board for light wind)

        P.P.S., In 5-10 knots, I normally use a 10 - 12 m2 foil (10 m2 foil for
        the 230 board and 12 m2 foil for a 5'9" board) so you at 190 lbs would
        need a 15 - 18 m2 foil ...

        Hung.
      • fernmanus
        Doug, I also love light wind. I have a Wipika 16.4 AB and a Flysurfer 16M Mast Air. I used to have a 21.5 ARX, but I hated it because it was so slow. I
        Message 3 of 5 , Jan 2, 2002
          Doug,

          I also love light wind. I have a Wipika 16.4 AB and a Flysurfer 16M
          Mast Air. I used to have a 21.5 ARX, but I hated it because it was
          so slow. I understand the Power booster bridle solves this problem.

          First of all, don't be afraid of the big kites. I love my 16.4 AB.
          I sometimes ride it in 15 mph winds with my small board just because
          I can jump so high and so far with that monster. It is also an
          amazing feeling to be riding on near flat water. You need a big kite
          to do that.

          I use the 181 Lightwave and the 16.4 in really light winds. I can
          ride in 8 mph winds with that configuration and start jumping around
          12 mph (I weight 175 LBS).

          I haven't tried the Flysurfer on the water yet. I have only tried it
          once on snow. I was able to go upwind on my snowboard in 7 mph
          winds. It is definitely worth looking at because it has an excellent
          depower system. However, it is not cheap. If I were going to
          recommend a kite to buy today. Buy a 16.4 Airblast. You can get one
          for less than $700 because everyone is blowing out last year's
          kites. Check out www.iwindsurf.com

          I hope that helps.

          Kenny


          --- In ksurfschool@y..., "Gary Sowell" <garys@m...> wrote:
          > Aloha Doug....
          > I'm 210 pounds and like you, I love the light winds...
          > I have a naish 23.5m ARX and I have a Wipi 16monster...
          > The naish will get you up in the wind range you are looking at...
          > The board I use in winds like this is the lite wave dave 169....
          > Foils are a bit scary to fly when they are that big... I had the
          Mosquito 9+
          > and after having some mishaps with that kite, I will never fly a
          foil again
          > (other than the arc)....
          >
          > Hope this helps...
          >
          > Gary
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "Doug Kitchen" <doug@c...>
          > To: <ksurfschool@y...>
          > Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 1:28 PM
          > Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Digest Number 502
          >
          >
          > > Hi Everyone,
          > > I started kitesurfing because I was tired of sitting on the
          beach
          > waiting
          > > for wind for my windsurfer. I fugure I can ride my 8'8 90 litre
          wave
          > board
          > > in 12 knots with a 5.6 wave sail. I started with a Wipika 11.0
          meter Free
          > > Air. I realize now that I need at least 15 knots for this kite.
          I bought
          > a
          > > RRD 14.9, the sad truth is I need 12 knots with this kite. I
          weigh 190 lbs
          > > and am riding a 6.6 directional. I understand that foils are
          better than
          > > frame kites in light wind. Can anyone recommend me a foil that
          will get me
          > > powered up in 5-10 knots.Does anyone know if the Peter Lynn 14.0
          > > m ARC ever got released and what kind of performance I can
          expect out of
          > > it.Am I expecting too much? I started kitesurfing because I heard
          about
          > the
          > > light wind possibilities,but now I wonder but Iam hooked now so
          there is
          > no
          > > turning back.
          > > Thanks,
          > > Doug
          > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > From: <ksurfschool@y...>
          > > To: <ksurfschool@y...>
          > > Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 2:59 PM
          > > Subject: [ksurfschool] Digest Number 502
          > >
          > >
          > > > There are 2 messages in this issue.
          > > >
          > > > Topics in this digest:
          > > >
          > > > 1. Re: Low AR .vs. high AR
          > > > From: "fernmanus" <fernmanus@y...>
          > > > 2. Re: New Year 2002 predictions
          > > > From: Hung Vu <hungvu@n...>
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          ______________________________________________________________________
          __
          > > >
          ______________________________________________________________________
          __
          > > >
          > > > Message: 1
          > > > Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 17:48:34 -0000
          > > > From: "fernmanus" <fernmanus@y...>
          > > > Subject: Re: Low AR .vs. high AR
          > > >
          > > > Hung,
          > > >
          > > > Good observations. I wish to add a couple more thoughts.
          > > >
          > > > Where I live the wind is generally light (Salt Lake City, UT).
          > > > Therefore, I use high AR kites. The primary reason is for
          jumping.
          > > > I have found the large high AR kites to be more responsive.
          When you
          > > > jump, the faster you can move the kite overhead, the more pop
          you
          > > > will have off the water. I found it very difficult to jump
          with slow
          > > > moving large kites.
          > > >
          > > > I have kite surfed in high wind conditions as well. In high
          wind
          > > > conditions a low AR is nice because the kite is more stable and
          will
          > > > feel less twitchy.
          > > >
          > > > Kenny
          > > >
          > > > --- In ksurfschool@y..., Hung Vu <hungvu@n...> wrote:
          > > > > Many people worldwide have asked me these questions and I have
          > > > answered
          > > > > many. I thought it would be useful to post them here:
          > > > >
          > > > > Use a low AR kite in high wind (above 20 knots)
          > > > >
          > > > > Use a high AR kite in low wind (below 10 knots)
          > > > >
          > > > > Between 10 - 20 knots use anything you have...
          > > > >
          > > > > So if you live in Maui or other high wind destinations (where
          most
          > > > pros
          > > > > are), don't need to buy a high AR kite.
          > > > >
          > > > > If you live in Ottawa, Canada, buy both high AR and low AR
          kite as
          > > > the
          > > > > wind can be anywhere between 5 - 45 knots.
          > > > >
          > > > > P.S. the assumption is that high AR kites are faster, it may
          not be
          > > > true
          > > > > for some kites...
          > > > >
          > > > > P.P.S. If you kiteski or want to go fast, high AR is the only
          > > > answer...
          > > > >
          > > > > P.P.P.S. What the pros want may not be what YOU want...
          > > > >
          > > > > Hung.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          ______________________________________________________________________
          __
          > > >
          ______________________________________________________________________
          __
          > > >
          > > > Message: 2
          > > > Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 22:34:40 -0500
          > > > From: Hung Vu <hungvu@n...>
          > > > Subject: Re: New Year 2002 predictions
          > > >
          > > > Chris,
          > > >
          > > > Very interesting! Let me add some more:
          > > >
          > > > -- Fins will start to disappear as kitesurfers start to realize
          that
          > > > fins are more costly, cumbersome than helpful
          > > >
          > > > -- With the new finless, properly shaped boards, kitesurfers
          start to go
          > > > as fast as windsurfers
          > > >
          > > > -- Foils will become more popular (than they are now) as they
          are faster
          > > > and jump higher
          > > >
          > > > -- People will realize that by inflating the leading edge with
          helium
          > > > will make inflatables less prone to the "dead seagull drop"
          (hahaha
          > > > someone has asked for it...)
          > > >
          > > > -- Properly shaped finless board will generate higher lift
          allow boards
          > > > to be smaller (120 x 30 cm range) and still ride in lower wind
          > > >
          > > > -- Handles will become more popular (than they are now) in
          lighter wind
          > > > as they are the best to manipulate foils in such extreme
          conditions
          > > >
          > > > -- Kites will be designed/marketed clearly in three different
          groups:
          > > > light wind, medium wind and high wind kites where low AR
          inflatable
          > > > dominate the high wind group, foils dominate the light wind
          group and
          > > > fierce competition for the medium group for many manufacturers
          > > >
          > > > Hung.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Ok, here's my predictions for kitesurfing next
          year,
          > > > 2002..
          > > >
          > > > -- Next years kites will all have more more
          wind range
          > > > ..because
          > > > that's what we all want.
          > > >
          > > > -- The end of picklefork boards. New board
          shapes will
          > > > have
          > > > more blunt tails.
          > > >
          > > > -- Footstraps will continue to be popular and
          will NOT
          > > > all be
          > > > replaced by full bindings.
          > > >
          > > > -- On new 4 line inflatables, rigid carbon
          battens at
          > > > the tips will
          > > > be common.
          > > >
          > > > -- Better safety release/leash systems will be
          marketed
          > > > (they can't
          > > > be worse than what is available now).
          > > >
          > > > -- All kite manufacturers will agree on a size
          standard
          > > > (ha
          > > > ha ..just kidding with this one).
          > > >
          > > > -- Someone will post a "new" idea to fill an
          inflatable
          > > > with helium
          > > > (ughh ..not again).
          > > >
          > > > -- Some products will fade into obscurity like
          reel
          > > > bars, high
          > > > volume boards, and using handles.
          > > >
          > > > -- Kite and board prices will drop somewhat due
          to
          > > > competition
          > > > (..not sure about this one).
          > > >
          > > > -- Kiting will become more mainstream and
          acceptable and
          > > > will NOT be
          > > > banned at many more beaches.
          > > >
          > > > -- The number of kite manufacturers will stop
          growing as
          > > > newcomers
          > > > find it hard to compete against the Naish,
          Wipika,
          > > > Cabrinha,
          > > > Slingshot, Peter Lynn, Airrush, North.
          > > >
          > > > -- Foil kites will do well in the very large
          sizes (over
          > > > 15.5AR5).
          > > >
          > > > -- Kites will come with long lines (>30m) for
          big kite
          > > > sizes and
          > > > shorter lines (<25m) for small kite sizes.
          > > >
          > > > -- Serious accidents will happen where helmet
          use could
          > > > have helped!
          > > >
          > > > -- Someone will break the hang time record with
          over 10
          > > > seconds.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Chris G
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          ______________________________________________________________________
          __
          > > >
          ______________________________________________________________________
          __
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > >
          > >
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