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ARC Weight, Self-Inflation

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  • Mel
    A while ago when I posted my ARC Advantages text, somebody accused me of exaggerating when I claimed the ARC is lighter. I finally got around to putting a
    Message 1 of 14 , Nov 4, 2001
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      A while ago when I posted my "ARC Advantages" text, somebody accused me of exaggerating when I claimed the ARC is lighter.  I finally got around to putting a couple of kites with nearly identical wind ranges on a scale*: an 840 ARC is TWENTY EIGHT percent lighter than an 8.9 RRD.  While discovering this, I recalled thinking that the light weight may be what helps it automatically go to zenith on its own (lift is greater than weight).
       
      * I'd previously based my claim on how tired my arms were after carrying an inflatable a half mile to the water & back every day.  Now I know why!
       
      I also still stand behind every other claim I make in that text.  I recently flew in wind WAY too light for even me (63kg) to ride (even on an 1120) & they both (630 & 1120) self inflated enough to launch solo.
       
      Mel
    • Dwight & Jacky
      Weigh your old Naish. The RRD is a boat anchor. That s not really a fair test. I felt the same way after carrying the 18.9 RRD to the beach and then going back
      Message 2 of 14 , Nov 5, 2001
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        Weigh your old Naish. The RRD is a boat anchor. That's not really a fair test. I felt the same way after carrying the 18.9 RRD to the beach and then going back to the car for my Wipika.
         
        Dwight

        A while ago when I posted my "ARC Advantages" text, somebody accused me of exaggerating when I claimed the ARC is lighter.  I finally got around to putting a couple of kites with nearly identical wind ranges on a scale*: an 840 ARC is TWENTY EIGHT percent lighter than an 8.9 RRD.  While discovering this, I recalled thinking that the light weight may be what helps it automatically go to zenith on its own (lift is greater than weight).
         
        * I'd previously based my claim on how tired my arms were after carrying an inflatable a half mile to the water & back every day.  Now I know why!
         
        I also still stand behind every other claim I make in that text.  I recently flew in wind WAY too light for even me (63kg) to ride (even on an 1120) & they both (630 & 1120) self inflated enough to launch solo.
         
        Mel

      • Hung Vu
        Mel, ... You may want to post the approx. weight of the kites you measured. The info could be useful to the others. Hung.
        Message 3 of 14 , Nov 5, 2001
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          Mel,

          > Mel wrote:
          > A while ago when I posted my "ARC Advantages" text, somebody accused
          > me of exaggerating when I claimed the ARC is lighter. I finally got
          > around to putting a couple of kites with nearly identical wind ranges
          > on a scale*: an 840 ARC is TWENTY EIGHT percent lighter than an 8.9
          > RRD. While discovering this, I recalled thinking that the light
          > weight may be what helps it automatically go to zenith on its own
          > (lift is greater than weight).

          You may want to post the approx. weight of the kites you measured. The
          info could be useful to the others.

          Hung.
        • Mel
          ... test. I already sold my old Naish or I would have weighed it. I would also have weighed an ARX (that would be a more fair test than an AR5), but I didn t
          Message 4 of 14 , Nov 6, 2001
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            Dwight & Jacky wrote:

            > Weigh your old Naish. The RRD is a boat anchor. That's not really a fair
            test.

            I already sold my old Naish or I would have weighed it. I would also have
            weighed an ARX (that would be a more fair test than an AR5), but I didn't
            have one of comparable size handy. In any case, even if an RRD is TWENTY
            FIVE percent heavier than an ARX or AR5 (or other inflatables), an ARC would
            still be lighter than all of them.

            AND Hung Vu <hungvu@...> wrote:

            > Mel,
            >
            > You may want to post the approx. weight of the kites you measured. The
            > info could be useful to the others.

            840 ARC: 5.25 pounds (2.39kg)
            8.9 RRD: 7.25 pounds (3.30kg)

            Both weighed in their bags, with pigtails, but no other parts (no lines, no
            patch kit, no pump, no bar, no leaders, no harness lines). There are two
            other things I feel need mentioning. Not only does the ARC not require a
            lot of those parts at all (harness lines, pump, patch kit), but the others
            it DOES require are lighter (lines, leaders & bar). ALSO: This comparison
            is really only relevant just for carrying the kites around, since (as I
            recently posted) while actually riding I feel there's little difference in
            performance (it's the other characteristics that are different).

            Mel
          • matt nuzzo
            are you kidding me? does the wieght of a kite really matter? ... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Find a job, post your
            Message 5 of 14 , Nov 7, 2001
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              are you kidding me? does the wieght of a kite really
              matter?
              --- Mel <kitebord@...> wrote:
              > Dwight & Jacky wrote:
              >
              > > Weigh your old Naish. The RRD is a boat anchor.
              > That's not really a fair
              > test.
              >
              > I already sold my old Naish or I would have weighed
              > it. I would also have
              > weighed an ARX (that would be a more fair test than
              > an AR5), but I didn't
              > have one of comparable size handy. In any case,
              > even if an RRD is TWENTY
              > FIVE percent heavier than an ARX or AR5 (or other
              > inflatables), an ARC would
              > still be lighter than all of them.
              >
              > AND Hung Vu <hungvu@...> wrote:
              >
              > > Mel,
              > >
              > > You may want to post the approx. weight of the
              > kites you measured. The
              > > info could be useful to the others.
              >
              > 840 ARC: 5.25 pounds (2.39kg)
              > 8.9 RRD: 7.25 pounds (3.30kg)
              >
              > Both weighed in their bags, with pigtails, but no
              > other parts (no lines, no
              > patch kit, no pump, no bar, no leaders, no harness
              > lines). There are two
              > other things I feel need mentioning. Not only does
              > the ARC not require a
              > lot of those parts at all (harness lines, pump,
              > patch kit), but the others
              > it DOES require are lighter (lines, leaders & bar).
              > ALSO: This comparison
              > is really only relevant just for carrying the kites
              > around, since (as I
              > recently posted) while actually riding I feel
              > there's little difference in
              > performance (it's the other characteristics that are
              > different).
              >
              > Mel
              >
              >


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            • Hung Vu
              ... Matt, Kite weight makes a lot of differences in light wind or in kite skiing (high speed stuff...). In light wind or high speed you need to juice as much
              Message 6 of 14 , Nov 7, 2001
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                matt nuzzo wrote:
                >
                > are you kidding me? does the wieght of a kite really
                > matter?

                Matt,

                Kite weight makes a lot of differences in light wind or in kite skiing
                (high speed stuff...).

                In light wind or high speed you need to juice as much lift from the kite
                as you can instead of wasting it to support the extra kite weight.

                Hung.
              • Mel
                ... This subject was originated by my claim of ARCs being easier to carry around. I had the opportunity to weigh some kites as you d carry them from your car
                Message 7 of 14 , Nov 7, 2001
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                  Hung Vu <hungvu@...> wrote:

                  > In light wind or high speed you need to juice as much lift from the kite
                  > as you can instead of wasting it to support the extra kite weight.

                  This subject was originated by my claim of ARCs being easier to carry
                  around. I had the opportunity to weigh some kites as you'd carry them from
                  your car to the setup area (with bag, pump, bar, lines, leaders, harness
                  line, etc):
                  9.5ARX 8.5 pounds
                  1120ARC 7.88 pounds
                  17.5ARX 13.81 pounds
                  18.9RRD 15.88 pounds

                  Mel
                • fernmanus@yahoo.com
                  Hung is correct. Kite weight really makes a difference. Wait until you heft a 16.4. It is an enormous kite, nearly 50 feet in length, but it won t fly in
                  Message 8 of 14 , Nov 8, 2001
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                    Hung is correct. Kite weight really makes a difference. Wait until
                    you heft a 16.4. It is an enormous kite, nearly 50 feet in length,
                    but it won't fly in less than 7 mph winds. It just weighs too much.
                    A big foil would make good sense in light winds. However, I haven't
                    yet found one that has as much power control as the 16.4. Maybe the
                    new Mastair 16 will do the trick.

                    Mel, do you know anything about the Mastair kites? How do you like
                    the 18.9 RRD? I have the 14.9 RRD, it is a well-built kite, but is
                    less responsive than my 11.8 AB. Mel, I am coming to S. CA after
                    Thanksgiving. How is the wind in late November? Hit or Miss or
                    blowing most days? I am wondering if I should bring my kite gear or
                    just go surfing.

                    Kenny

                    --- In ksurfschool@y..., Hung Vu <hungvu@n...> wrote:
                    > matt nuzzo wrote:
                    > >
                    > > are you kidding me? does the wieght of a kite really
                    > > matter?
                    >
                    > Matt,
                    >
                    > Kite weight makes a lot of differences in light wind or in kite
                    skiing
                    > (high speed stuff...).
                    >
                    > In light wind or high speed you need to juice as much lift from the
                    kite
                    > as you can instead of wasting it to support the extra kite weight.
                    >
                    > Hung.
                  • Mel
                    ... No. ... I haven t flown any RRDs except the 8.9 ... Neither. It s usually Miss or Miss (practically nothing, most of the time) ... The surfers say it s
                    Message 9 of 14 , Nov 9, 2001
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                      <fernmanus@...> wrote:

                      > Mel, do you know anything about the Mastair kites?

                      No.

                      > How do you like
                      > the 18.9 RRD?

                      I haven't flown any RRDs except the 8.9

                      > Mel, I am coming to S. CA after
                      > Thanksgiving. How is the wind in late November? Hit or Miss or
                      > blowing most days?

                      Neither. It's usually Miss or Miss (practically nothing, most of the time)

                      > I am wondering if I should bring my kite gear or
                      > just go surfing.

                      The surfers say it's better in the winter.

                      Mel
                    • matt nuzzo
                      bigger is better. the monster kite get you lit no matter how much they wiegh. the naish 22.5 works. the wipika 16.4 works. the north 22 works. the
                      Message 10 of 14 , Nov 12, 2001
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                        bigger is better. the monster kite get you lit no
                        matter how much they wiegh. the naish 22.5 works.
                        the wipika 16.4 works. the north 22 works. the
                        flysurfer.de 12 works. they all get you litt. that
                        is why you buy a mega kite.
                        --- fernmanus@... wrote:
                        > Hung is correct. Kite weight really makes a
                        > difference. Wait until
                        > you heft a 16.4. It is an enormous kite, nearly 50
                        > feet in length,
                        > but it won't fly in less than 7 mph winds. It just
                        > weighs too much.
                        > A big foil would make good sense in light winds.
                        > However, I haven't
                        > yet found one that has as much power control as the
                        > 16.4. Maybe the
                        > new Mastair 16 will do the trick.
                        >
                        > Mel, do you know anything about the Mastair kites?
                        > How do you like
                        > the 18.9 RRD? I have the 14.9 RRD, it is a
                        > well-built kite, but is
                        > less responsive than my 11.8 AB. Mel, I am coming
                        > to S. CA after
                        > Thanksgiving. How is the wind in late November?
                        > Hit or Miss or
                        > blowing most days? I am wondering if I should bring
                        > my kite gear or
                        > just go surfing.
                        >
                        > Kenny
                        >
                        > --- In ksurfschool@y..., Hung Vu <hungvu@n...>
                        > wrote:
                        > > matt nuzzo wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > are you kidding me? does the wieght of a kite
                        > really
                        > > > matter?
                        > >
                        > > Matt,
                        > >
                        > > Kite weight makes a lot of differences in light
                        > wind or in kite
                        > skiing
                        > > (high speed stuff...).
                        > >
                        > > In light wind or high speed you need to juice as
                        > much lift from the
                        > kite
                        > > as you can instead of wasting it to support the
                        > extra kite weight.
                        > >
                        > > Hung.
                        >
                        >


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                      • matt nuzzo
                        Mel -- Take a shot. you got technical. ... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals
                        Message 11 of 14 , Nov 12, 2001
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                          Mel -- Take a shot. you got technical.
                          --- Mel <kitebord@...> wrote:
                          > Hung Vu <hungvu@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > > In light wind or high speed you need to juice as
                          > much lift from the kite
                          > > as you can instead of wasting it to support the
                          > extra kite weight.
                          >
                          > This subject was originated by my claim of ARCs
                          > being easier to carry
                          > around. I had the opportunity to weigh some kites
                          > as you'd carry them from
                          > your car to the setup area (with bag, pump, bar,
                          > lines, leaders, harness
                          > line, etc):
                          > 9.5ARX 8.5 pounds
                          > 1120ARC 7.88 pounds
                          > 17.5ARX 13.81 pounds
                          > 18.9RRD 15.88 pounds
                          >
                          > Mel
                          >
                          >


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                        • fernmanus@yahoo.com
                          I am going to put the bigger is better theory to the test. I just purchased a Flysurfer Mast 16 to compare with my Wipika 16.4 AB. You need more than the
                          Message 12 of 14 , Nov 13, 2001
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                            I am going to put the bigger is better theory to the test. I just
                            purchased a Flysurfer Mast 16 to compare with my Wipika 16.4 AB.

                            You need more than the ability to be "lit" from a large kite. You
                            also need a kite that turns relatively quickly, the 16.4 AB is the
                            only big kite that I have found that is any good for jumping. This
                            years Naish 21.5 and 23.5 are lousy kites. They suck for jumping
                            because they are so slow and nearly impossible to relaunch. I
                            haven't tried the North 22 yet.

                            Kenny
                            --- In ksurfschool@y..., matt nuzzo <realkiteobx@y...> wrote:
                            > bigger is better. the monster kite get you lit no
                            > matter how much they wiegh. the naish 22.5 works.
                            > the wipika 16.4 works. the north 22 works. the
                            > flysurfer.de 12 works. they all get you litt. that
                            > is why you buy a mega kite.
                            > --- fernmanus@y... wrote:
                            > > Hung is correct. Kite weight really makes a
                            > > difference. Wait until
                            > > you heft a 16.4. It is an enormous kite, nearly 50
                            > > feet in length,
                            > > but it won't fly in less than 7 mph winds. It just
                            > > weighs too much.
                            > > A big foil would make good sense in light winds.
                            > > However, I haven't
                            > > yet found one that has as much power control as the
                            > > 16.4. Maybe the
                            > > new Mastair 16 will do the trick.
                            > >
                            > > Mel, do you know anything about the Mastair kites?
                            > > How do you like
                            > > the 18.9 RRD? I have the 14.9 RRD, it is a
                            > > well-built kite, but is
                            > > less responsive than my 11.8 AB. Mel, I am coming
                            > > to S. CA after
                            > > Thanksgiving. How is the wind in late November?
                            > > Hit or Miss or
                            > > blowing most days? I am wondering if I should bring
                            > > my kite gear or
                            > > just go surfing.
                            > >
                            > > Kenny
                            > >
                            > > --- In ksurfschool@y..., Hung Vu <hungvu@n...>
                            > > wrote:
                            > > > matt nuzzo wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > > > are you kidding me? does the wieght of a kite
                            > > really
                            > > > > matter?
                            > > >
                            > > > Matt,
                            > > >
                            > > > Kite weight makes a lot of differences in light
                            > > wind or in kite
                            > > skiing
                            > > > (high speed stuff...).
                            > > >
                            > > > In light wind or high speed you need to juice as
                            > > much lift from the
                            > > kite
                            > > > as you can instead of wasting it to support the
                            > > extra kite weight.
                            > > >
                            > > > Hung.
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            >
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                          • Mel
                            ... Geez! I just wrote that ARCs are lighter to carry, & somebody disagreed, so I published the weights (since Hung asked for them). You don t have to read it
                            Message 13 of 14 , Nov 13, 2001
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                              matt nuzzo <realkiteobx@...> wrote:

                              > Mel -- Take a shot. you got technical.

                              Geez! I just wrote that ARCs are lighter to carry, & somebody disagreed, so
                              I published the weights (since Hung asked for them).

                              You don't have to read it ;)

                              Mel
                              P.S. Can I still take that shot?
                            • matt nuzzo
                              Mel go for the handle bottle. It sounds like it might help your kiting. -- Matt ... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Find
                              Message 14 of 14 , Nov 14, 2001
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                                Mel go for the handle bottle. It sounds like it might
                                help your kiting. -- Matt
                                --- Mel <kitebord@...> wrote:
                                > matt nuzzo <realkiteobx@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > > Mel -- Take a shot. you got technical.
                                >
                                > Geez! I just wrote that ARCs are lighter to carry,
                                > & somebody disagreed, so
                                > I published the weights (since Hung asked for them).
                                >
                                > You don't have to read it ;)
                                >
                                > Mel
                                > P.S. Can I still take that shot?
                                >
                                >


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