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Final Waterstart question. Sooo Close!

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  • infrauk@yahoo.co.uk
    All. I weigh 140lbs, have an F-One TT 178, and a selection of Arcs. Hopefully in the final stages of learning to waterstart but want to confirm that a I m
    Message 1 of 11 , Aug 20, 2001
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      All.

      I weigh 140lbs, have an F-One TT 178, and a selection of Arcs.

      Hopefully in the final stages of learning to waterstart but want to
      confirm that "a" I'm doing it right, & "B" have a query:

      "A" Waterstart Technique.
      With the kite in Neutral, I put my weight onto my back foot, move the
      kite towards the edge of the wind window according to the direction I
      want to travel, briefly point the front of the board towards the
      kite, then when up, make sure the board is parallel to the kite,
      distribute my weight evenly across both feet and edge hard.
      Is this correct in your experiences?

      "B" Kite Manoeuvers
      With directionals, I was told you needed to dive the kite to get up.
      But not on Twin tips. Is this true? If not, could you advise how the
      kite should be manoeuvered?

      Determined to get up and stay up this weekend.

      Thanks in advance for your assistance.

      Rob...
    • Philip Mann
      Rob, Diving the kite to the edge of the Window will not give you any power to get up on the board. Just as will a directional, you need to dive the kite into
      Message 2 of 11 , Aug 21, 2001
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        Rob,

        Diving the kite to the edge of the Window will not give you any power to get
        up on the board.
        Just as will a directional, you need to dive the kite into the power Zone to
        get up on the board.
        Where in the power zone depends on how powered up you are.
        If you are very powered up you can drive the kite more towards the edge of
        the Power window, but driving the kite down the edge of the window will
        result in no to very little power, this will generally just cause your body
        and board to turn into the wind.
        Be more aggressive with your dive into the power zone! keep the weight on
        the back foot and stand up. Bring the kite up to neutral and try again,
        Practice this and you will learn how steep and deep to make the initial dive
        to get up and on the board.

        Have Fun,

        Philip

        Kitesite.net
        1-888-465-2632
        1-802-862-3847
        www.inlandsea.com
        www.kitesite.net

        -----Original Message-----
        From: infrauk@... [mailto:infrauk@...]
        Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 11:11 PM
        To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [ksurfschool] Final Waterstart question. Sooo Close!


        All.

        I weigh 140lbs, have an F-One TT 178, and a selection of Arcs.

        Hopefully in the final stages of learning to waterstart but want to
        confirm that "a" I'm doing it right, & "B" have a query:

        "A" Waterstart Technique.
        With the kite in Neutral, I put my weight onto my back foot, move the
        kite towards the edge of the wind window according to the direction I
        want to travel, briefly point the front of the board towards the
        kite, then when up, make sure the board is parallel to the kite,
        distribute my weight evenly across both feet and edge hard.
        Is this correct in your experiences?

        "B" Kite Manoeuvers
        With directionals, I was told you needed to dive the kite to get up.
        But not on Twin tips. Is this true? If not, could you advise how the
        kite should be manoeuvered?

        Determined to get up and stay up this weekend.

        Thanks in advance for your assistance.

        Rob...




        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      • Mel
        ... I don t get the feeling myself. I feel like both my feet are weighted roughly equal, but then I have my footstraps positioned so my feet are weighted
        Message 3 of 11 , Aug 21, 2001
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          <infrauk@...> wrote:

          > With the kite in Neutral, I put my weight onto my back foot,

          I don't get the feeling myself. I feel like both my feet are weighted
          roughly equal, but then I have my footstraps positioned so my feet are
          weighted equal while riding (all the way back in the stock inserts). More
          important to think of bending your legs, and pushing your heels down &
          upwind (to get your butt over the board).

          > move the
          > kite towards the edge of the wind window according to the direction I
          > want to travel,

          More like "dive the kite straight down". Of course the angle of dive is
          highly dependent on wind strength & kite size (in other words dive more if
          you need more power). If diving straight down & pulling out only at the
          very last moment before turning as tight as possible to barely miss the
          water still won't get you up, then start by moving the kite back in the
          opposite direction a bit first, before diving it (gives more diving space, &
          also gets the kite moving before even starting the dive).

          > briefly point the front of the board towards the
          > kite,

          That is a technique to use if you've dived the kite too much: you steer
          towards the kite in order that line tension doesn't pull you over on your
          face.

          > then when up, make sure the board is parallel to the kite,
          > distribute my weight evenly across both feet and edge hard.

          Again dependent on how powered up you are, you may not need or want to edge
          hard. Edge only hard enough to maintain your desired course. Most often
          those at your stage are underpowered, & a common problem is failing to keep
          working the kite up & down to maintain sufficient power to keep your balance
          once up on the board.

          > With directionals, I was told you needed to dive the kite to get up.
          > But not on Twin tips. Is this true?

          Absolutely not. The kite maneuver is identical, & the foot work is also
          essentially the same too.

          > If not, could you advise how the
          > kite should be manoeuvered?

          I already did that above, but it's a good idea to lie on your back on the
          sand to practice without the board. Hover, then dive to lift you to a
          standing position. You may need to bend your knees, & pull your butt in
          over your feet too, just like in the water.

          > Determined to get up and stay up this weekend.

          The first time you get up on the board you'll likely fall immediately, but
          by the end of the day (or maybe by the beginning of the next day) you'll
          likely be able to stay up indefinitely. In other words, don't get
          frustrated, just keep trying, & quite soon you'll be ripping.

          Mel
        • infrauk@yahoo.co.uk
          Philip Thks for the advice, one final question though. When the kite has been dived and you re up, do you fly the kite back up again but more towards the
          Message 4 of 11 , Aug 21, 2001
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            Philip

            Thks for the advice, one final question though. When the kite has
            been dived and you're up, do you fly the kite back up again but more
            towards the direction of travel? or do you keep it at the angle you
            original got up with but keep ing in the direction of travel?

            Hope this makes sense.

            Rob...

            --- In ksurfschool@y..., "Philip Mann" <phil@i...> wrote:
            > Rob,
            >
            > Diving the kite to the edge of the Window will not give you any
            power to get
            > up on the board.
            > Just as will a directional, you need to dive the kite into the
            power Zone to
            > get up on the board.
            > Where in the power zone depends on how powered up you are.
            > If you are very powered up you can drive the kite more towards the
            edge of
            > the Power window, but driving the kite down the edge of the window
            will
            > result in no to very little power, this will generally just cause
            your body
            > and board to turn into the wind.
            > Be more aggressive with your dive into the power zone! keep the
            weight on
            > the back foot and stand up. Bring the kite up to neutral and try
            again,
            > Practice this and you will learn how steep and deep to make the
            initial dive
            > to get up and on the board.
            >
            > Have Fun,
            >
            > Philip
            >
            > Kitesite.net
            > 1-888-465-2632
            > 1-802-862-3847
            > www.inlandsea.com
            > www.kitesite.net
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: infrauk@y... [mailto:infrauk@y...]
            > Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 11:11 PM
            > To: ksurfschool@y...
            > Subject: [ksurfschool] Final Waterstart question. Sooo Close!
            >
            >
            > All.
            >
            > I weigh 140lbs, have an F-One TT 178, and a selection of Arcs.
            >
            > Hopefully in the final stages of learning to waterstart but want to
            > confirm that "a" I'm doing it right, & "B" have a query:
            >
            > "A" Waterstart Technique.
            > With the kite in Neutral, I put my weight onto my back foot, move
            the
            > kite towards the edge of the wind window according to the direction
            I
            > want to travel, briefly point the front of the board towards the
            > kite, then when up, make sure the board is parallel to the kite,
            > distribute my weight evenly across both feet and edge hard.
            > Is this correct in your experiences?
            >
            > "B" Kite Manoeuvers
            > With directionals, I was told you needed to dive the kite to get up.
            > But not on Twin tips. Is this true? If not, could you advise how the
            > kite should be manoeuvered?
            >
            > Determined to get up and stay up this weekend.
            >
            > Thanks in advance for your assistance.
            >
            > Rob...
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          • Lenik Terenin
            ... If you don t, you most probably fall back, since beginners usually practice in underpowered conditions. Moreover, don t expect to get on the board on the
            Message 5 of 11 , Aug 22, 2001
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              >been dived and you're up, do you fly the kite back up again

              If you don't, you most probably fall back, since beginners
              usually practice in underpowered conditions.

              Moreover, don't expect to get on the board on the first dive.
              When underpowered, it takes 3 strokes -- one stroke down,
              to get some speed for kite, then stroke up to get you on the
              board and finally one more stroke down to get you planning.

              And don't stop sining the kite once you're up -- it's the most
              common problem novices face ! ;-)
            • Dwight & Jacky
              Point your board a little down wind too. This will allow you to be brave when diving the kite because you won t get thrown over the nose as easily. A common
              Message 6 of 11 , Aug 22, 2001
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                Point your board a little down wind too. This will allow you to be brave when diving the kite
                because you won't get thrown over the nose as easily. A common mistake is to try too hard to go
                upwind right away. If the board is pointing a little downwind the control in the first power dive is
                not as critical.

                > Philip
                >
                > Thks for the advice, one final question though. When the kite has
                > been dived and you're up, do you fly the kite back up again but more
                > towards the direction of travel? or do you keep it at the angle you
                > original got up with but keep ing in the direction of travel?
                >
                > Hope this makes sense.
                >
                > Rob...
              • medairkite
                Mel great insights. do you recommend being hooked or unhooked when waterstaring with a 2 line, what about with a 4 line. thanks med ... weighted ... are ...
                Message 7 of 11 , Jun 1 8:23 PM
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                  Mel

                  great insights. do you recommend being hooked or unhooked when
                  waterstaring with a 2 line, what about with a 4 line.

                  thanks

                  med

                  --- In ksurfschool@y..., Mel <kitebord@p...> wrote:
                  > <infrauk@y...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > With the kite in Neutral, I put my weight onto my back foot,
                  >
                  > I don't get the feeling myself. I feel like both my feet are
                  weighted
                  > roughly equal, but then I have my footstraps positioned so my feet
                  are
                  > weighted equal while riding (all the way back in the stock
                  inserts). More
                  > important to think of bending your legs, and pushing your heels
                  down &
                  > upwind (to get your butt over the board).
                  >
                  > > move the
                  > > kite towards the edge of the wind window according to the
                  direction I
                  > > want to travel,
                  >
                  > More like "dive the kite straight down". Of course the angle of
                  dive is
                  > highly dependent on wind strength & kite size (in other words dive
                  more if
                  > you need more power). If diving straight down & pulling out only
                  at the
                  > very last moment before turning as tight as possible to barely miss
                  the
                  > water still won't get you up, then start by moving the kite back in
                  the
                  > opposite direction a bit first, before diving it (gives more diving
                  space, &
                  > also gets the kite moving before even starting the dive).
                  >
                  > > briefly point the front of the board towards the
                  > > kite,
                  >
                  > That is a technique to use if you've dived the kite too much: you
                  steer
                  > towards the kite in order that line tension doesn't pull you over
                  on your
                  > face.
                  >
                  > > then when up, make sure the board is parallel to the kite,
                  > > distribute my weight evenly across both feet and edge hard.
                  >
                  > Again dependent on how powered up you are, you may not need or want
                  to edge
                  > hard. Edge only hard enough to maintain your desired course. Most
                  often
                  > those at your stage are underpowered, & a common problem is failing
                  to keep
                  > working the kite up & down to maintain sufficient power to keep
                  your balance
                  > once up on the board.
                  >
                  > > With directionals, I was told you needed to dive the kite to get
                  up.
                  > > But not on Twin tips. Is this true?
                  >
                  > Absolutely not. The kite maneuver is identical, & the foot work is
                  also
                  > essentially the same too.
                  >
                  > > If not, could you advise how the
                  > > kite should be manoeuvered?
                  >
                  > I already did that above, but it's a good idea to lie on your back
                  on the
                  > sand to practice without the board. Hover, then dive to lift you
                  to a
                  > standing position. You may need to bend your knees, & pull your
                  butt in
                  > over your feet too, just like in the water.
                  >
                  > > Determined to get up and stay up this weekend.
                  >
                  > The first time you get up on the board you'll likely fall
                  immediately, but
                  > by the end of the day (or maybe by the beginning of the next day)
                  you'll
                  > likely be able to stay up indefinitely. In other words, don't get
                  > frustrated, just keep trying, & quite soon you'll be ripping.
                  >
                  > Mel
                • mauidragao
                  Hi Mel I just learn how to get up on my broad and I only able to go to the left doesn,t it got anything to do with when I snowbroad cause I am regular.
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jun 1 10:59 PM
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                    Hi Mel

                    I just learn how to get up on my broad and I only able to go
                    to the left doesn,t it got anything to do with when I snowbroad cause
                    I am regular.

                    mauidragao

                    --- In ksurfschool@y..., "medairkite" <med@i...> wrote:
                    > Mel
                    >
                    > great insights. do you recommend being hooked or unhooked when
                    > waterstaring with a 2 line, what about with a 4 line.
                    >
                    > thanks
                    >
                    > med
                    >
                    > --- In ksurfschool@y..., Mel <kitebord@p...> wrote:
                    > > <infrauk@y...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > > With the kite in Neutral, I put my weight onto my back foot,
                    > >
                    > > I don't get the feeling myself. I feel like both my feet are
                    > weighted
                    > > roughly equal, but then I have my footstraps positioned so my
                    feet
                    > are
                    > > weighted equal while riding (all the way back in the stock
                    > inserts). More
                    > > important to think of bending your legs, and pushing your heels
                    > down &
                    > > upwind (to get your butt over the board).
                    > >
                    > > > move the
                    > > > kite towards the edge of the wind window according to the
                    > direction I
                    > > > want to travel,
                    > >
                    > > More like "dive the kite straight down". Of course the angle of
                    > dive is
                    > > highly dependent on wind strength & kite size (in other words
                    dive
                    > more if
                    > > you need more power). If diving straight down & pulling out only
                    > at the
                    > > very last moment before turning as tight as possible to barely
                    miss
                    > the
                    > > water still won't get you up, then start by moving the kite back
                    in
                    > the
                    > > opposite direction a bit first, before diving it (gives more
                    diving
                    > space, &
                    > > also gets the kite moving before even starting the dive).
                    > >
                    > > > briefly point the front of the board towards the
                    > > > kite,
                    > >
                    > > That is a technique to use if you've dived the kite too much: you
                    > steer
                    > > towards the kite in order that line tension doesn't pull you over
                    > on your
                    > > face.
                    > >
                    > > > then when up, make sure the board is parallel to the kite,
                    > > > distribute my weight evenly across both feet and edge hard.
                    > >
                    > > Again dependent on how powered up you are, you may not need or
                    want
                    > to edge
                    > > hard. Edge only hard enough to maintain your desired course.
                    Most
                    > often
                    > > those at your stage are underpowered, & a common problem is
                    failing
                    > to keep
                    > > working the kite up & down to maintain sufficient power to keep
                    > your balance
                    > > once up on the board.
                    > >
                    > > > With directionals, I was told you needed to dive the kite to
                    get
                    > up.
                    > > > But not on Twin tips. Is this true?
                    > >
                    > > Absolutely not. The kite maneuver is identical, & the foot work
                    is
                    > also
                    > > essentially the same too.
                    > >
                    > > > If not, could you advise how the
                    > > > kite should be manoeuvered?
                    > >
                    > > I already did that above, but it's a good idea to lie on your
                    back
                    > on the
                    > > sand to practice without the board. Hover, then dive to lift you
                    > to a
                    > > standing position. You may need to bend your knees, & pull your
                    > butt in
                    > > over your feet too, just like in the water.
                    > >
                    > > > Determined to get up and stay up this weekend.
                    > >
                    > > The first time you get up on the board you'll likely fall
                    > immediately, but
                    > > by the end of the day (or maybe by the beginning of the next day)
                    > you'll
                    > > likely be able to stay up indefinitely. In other words, don't get
                    > > frustrated, just keep trying, & quite soon you'll be ripping.
                    > >
                    > > Mel
                  • Mel
                    ... It s generally easier to waterstart unhooked, since when you re learning you re more likely to be underpowered, & it s easier for the kite force to lift
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jun 2 4:00 PM
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                      "medairkite" <med@...> wrote:

                      > Mel
                      >
                      > great insights. do you recommend being hooked or unhooked when
                      > waterstaring with a 2 line, what about with a 4 line.

                      It's generally easier to waterstart unhooked, since when you're learning
                      you're more likely to be underpowered, & it's easier for the kite force to
                      lift you from your shoulders, than from your waist (where the hook is).
                      Given that, I never had any problem waterstarting hooked in, when I switched
                      to riding 4-line "locked-in-trimloop".

                      Mel
                    • Mel
                      ... Maybe. I m regular foot, & had no trouble learning left (port tack) waterstarts, but then I was already doing that on a sailboard even before I learned to
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jun 2 4:04 PM
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                        "mauidragao" <mauidragao@...> wrote:

                        > Hi Mel
                        >
                        > I just learn how to get up on my broad and I only able to go
                        > to the left doesn,t it got anything to do with when I snowbroad cause
                        > I am regular.

                        Maybe. I'm regular foot, & had no trouble learning left (port tack)
                        waterstarts, but then I was already doing that on a sailboard even before I
                        learned to snowboard (let alone kiteboard!). My normal answer to the "can't
                        do it the other way" question is to get good enough doing it one way that
                        you can do it without thinking, then while thinking about something else
                        (such as how it would feel to do it in the opposite direction!).

                        Mel
                      • mauidragao
                        -Thank you Mel what a good answer, I know I can do it it just I need more water time you know . jojo ... go ... cause ... before I ... the can t ... way that
                        Message 11 of 11 , Jun 2 11:44 PM
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                          -Thank you Mel what a good answer, I know I can do it it just I need
                          more water time you know .

                          jojo






                          - In ksurfschool@y..., Mel <kitebord@p...> wrote:
                          > "mauidragao" <mauidragao@y...> wrote:
                          >
                          > > Hi Mel
                          > >
                          > > I just learn how to get up on my broad and I only able to
                          go
                          > > to the left doesn,t it got anything to do with when I snowbroad
                          cause
                          > > I am regular.
                          >
                          > Maybe. I'm regular foot, & had no trouble learning left (port tack)
                          > waterstarts, but then I was already doing that on a sailboard even
                          before I
                          > learned to snowboard (let alone kiteboard!). My normal answer to
                          the "can't
                          > do it the other way" question is to get good enough doing it one
                          way that
                          > you can do it without thinking, then while thinking about something
                          else
                          > (such as how it would feel to do it in the opposite direction!).
                          >
                          > Mel
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