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Re: [ksurfschool] Re: Foils and gusty wind NOT A myth!

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  • Hung Vu
    ... I am not sure understand why an ARC, being heavier, would relaunch and a high performance foil would not in the same condition... Hung.
    Message 1 of 21 , Jul 6, 2001
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      Mel wrote:
      > > It's true that if you have the lulls less than 5 knots for a few
      > > minutes, most foils would absorb so much water and won't relaunch. If
      > > you go out in such light wind and want the ability to relaunch more
      > > reliable, foils with inflatable cells such as the Mosquito and the Jojo
      > > Wet is better.
      >
      > I know it doesn't really come under the "foil" classification we're
      > discussing, but I had an ARC on the water for quite a while (a few minutes)
      > & it relaunched easily in a 5 knot puff.

      I am not sure understand why an ARC, being heavier, would relaunch and a
      high performance foil would not in the same condition...

      Hung.
    • Doug Adams (E-mail)
      IMHO arcs launch so well because the angle of attack can be varied. Just don t turn them inside out treating them like an inflatable while lying on the water!
      Message 2 of 21 , Jul 6, 2001
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        IMHO arcs launch so well because the angle of attack can be varied. Just
        don't turn them inside out treating them like an inflatable while lying on
        the water! A foil launching leading edge up downwind has tons of drag and
        very little lift because the bridal sets the AOA at nearly 90 degrees
        relative the wind. My experience is foils launch much better backward,
        flying on their brakes, from downwind.

        Doug

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Mel [mailto:kitebord@...]
        Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 9:42 PM
        To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Re: Foils and gusty wind NOT A myth!


        Hung Vu <hungvu@...> wrote:

        > I am not sure understand why an ARC, being heavier, would relaunch and a
        > high performance foil would not in the same condition...

        Could be any of a number of factors:
        No bridle (I'm sure when wet it adds more weight than you'd think, just like
        it adds more drag than you'd think).
        Tip battens (added weight, but maybe they help somehow).
        General shape (maybe the arched shape helps somehow).
        Flexibility of shape without bridles (don't know how that would help, but it
        might).
        The fact that mine was practically brand new at the time might be a factor.

        On the other hand, since I only tried it once, maybe I was just lucky. It
        seems the consensus is you never get good at relaunching an ARC because it's
        so rare to crash them. Anybody else have extremely good success relaunching
        ARCs in light winds?

        Mel




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      • Mel
        ... Could be any of a number of factors: No bridle (I m sure when wet it adds more weight than you d think, just like it adds more drag than you d think). Tip
        Message 3 of 21 , Jul 6, 2001
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          Hung Vu <hungvu@...> wrote:

          > I am not sure understand why an ARC, being heavier, would relaunch and a
          > high performance foil would not in the same condition...

          Could be any of a number of factors:
          No bridle (I'm sure when wet it adds more weight than you'd think, just like
          it adds more drag than you'd think).
          Tip battens (added weight, but maybe they help somehow).
          General shape (maybe the arched shape helps somehow).
          Flexibility of shape without bridles (don't know how that would help, but it
          might).
          The fact that mine was practically brand new at the time might be a factor.

          On the other hand, since I only tried it once, maybe I was just lucky. It
          seems the consensus is you never get good at relaunching an ARC because it's
          so rare to crash them. Anybody else have extremely good success relaunching
          ARCs in light winds?

          Mel
        • Mel
          ... It s supposed to be possible to do that with an ARC too, but I had to intentionally crash it LE down to try it, & by the time I d adjusted my center strap
          Message 4 of 21 , Jul 6, 2001
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            Doug Adams (E-mail) <rcpilot@...> wrote:

            >My experience is foils launch much better backward,
            > flying on their brakes, from downwind.

            It's supposed to be possible to do that with an ARC too, but I had to
            intentionally crash it LE down to try it, & by the time I'd adjusted my
            center strap all the way out the darn thing was airborne again! In other
            words, if you really want to try it, make sure you adjust your strap all the
            way out BEFORE you "land" it nose down, or it may relaunch on its own before
            you get a chance to try the reverse launch.

            Mel
          • Hung Vu
            Actually, the issue Kenny raised is that after staying in the water during a lull for a while (let s say 10 minutes of less than 5 knots), most closed-cells
            Message 5 of 21 , Jul 7, 2001
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              Actually, the issue Kenny raised is that after staying in the water
              during a lull for a while (let's say 10 minutes of less than 5 knots),
              most closed-cells foil or Arc would absorb so much water that would
              render them un-relauncheable when the wind pick up. This is more to do
              with the ability of the kite keeping the water out. I notice that
              modern closed cell foils float better and are constructed better allow
              them to stay on the water longer.

              I had only one experience with the Arc kiteskiing in the winter in very
              light wind. We could relaunch foil easily (both LE up and LE down) and
              could not relaunch the Arc in that light wind (LE down).

              P.S., I am very intrigued about the novelty of the Arc and always try to
              think of a reason to buy one. I select inflatable for its reliable
              water relaunch and decent performance; I select a foil for higher
              performance/higher jump and light wind. Can someone shred a light why
              would I buy/try an Arc (stacking for light wind is not it as it sounds
              pretty complex and difficult)

              Hung.

              Mel wrote:
              >
              > Hung Vu <hungvu@...> wrote:
              >
              > > I am not sure understand why an ARC, being heavier, would relaunch and a
              > > high performance foil would not in the same condition...
              >
              > Could be any of a number of factors:
              > No bridle (I'm sure when wet it adds more weight than you'd think, just like
              > it adds more drag than you'd think).
              > Tip battens (added weight, but maybe they help somehow).
              > General shape (maybe the arched shape helps somehow).
              > Flexibility of shape without bridles (don't know how that would help, but it
              > might).
              > The fact that mine was practically brand new at the time might be a factor.
              >
              > On the other hand, since I only tried it once, maybe I was just lucky. It
              > seems the consensus is you never get good at relaunching an ARC because it's
              > so rare to crash them. Anybody else have extremely good success relaunching
              > ARCs in light winds?
              >
              > Mel
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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