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Re: [ksurfschool] Re: wake vs. directional round 3 :)

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  • Mel
    ... It IS very important. Ripping through a 240 degree arc, fully banked & dragging my hand with my elbow bent (even with my legs straight) is one of my
    Message 1 of 13 , Jun 8, 2001
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      <fernmanus@...> wrote:

      > I cannot compare the carving turn on a directional to a bidirectional ...
      > ...it sounds like that aspect of kite surfing is very important to you.

      It IS very important. Ripping through a 240 degree arc, fully banked &
      dragging my hand with my elbow bent (even with my legs straight) is one of
      my favorite things about kiteboarding. Maybe somebody else on this group
      can give a comparison.

      > I live in an area where
      > the wind is extemely gusty.

      Me too. iwindsurf readings like 11-28 are common.

      > This means that jibes are often
      > unpredictable.

      Yeah, but you can still nail a few, & it's GREAT. I think you're really
      missing out.

      > So, I worry more about a board that can edge well

      If you're needing the edging for gusts, what kind of kite contol system do
      you have?

      > and is still good during the lulls.

      Isn't the consensus that a directional is better in the lulls? I guess you
      could say I've chosen a kite (or at least it's 4-line/trim loop control
      system) for the gusts. Maybe you've chosen the board to handle the gusts
      instead of the kite/control system.

      > I found that I could load up better
      > on the Wake-N-Style than a directional for jumping. ...
      > ... I like a smaller board while in the air as well.

      Okay, so jumping may be an advantage of twintips over directionals. I like
      to jump too!

      > I think that Wake-N-Style feels so smooth because of the bottom
      > surface of the board

      Anything specific about the bottom surface? Rocker, outline, vee (or lack
      of it), or just some magical combination? I'd like to know what you think
      it is, in case I don't get to demo ride a smaller LiteWave, or RRD 150.
      "Porpoising" (nose bounce) at high speed is the primary reason I'm
      considering a new board.

      > The RRD is also a fun board, but I don't think it is
      > nearly as durable as the Wake-N-Style.

      I mentioned riding onto the beach is nice, but I really don't need to, since
      I can't do that now with my Fanatic directional, so if the RRD 150 performs
      well on the water I won't care about durability THAT much. The reason I
      mention the RRD is because it's got that short, curved, rockered toe side,
      which might improve the toe turns without compromising straight line or
      jumping performance.

      Mel
    • fernmanus@yahoo.com
      Mel, Don t get me wrong. I like a good jibe, but it is not a big issue with me. There are some really fun jibes that you can do on a bidirectional. I use
      Message 2 of 13 , Jun 11, 2001
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        Mel,

        Don't get me wrong. I like a good jibe, but it is not a big issue
        with me. There are some really fun jibes that you can do on a
        bidirectional.

        I use both the edge of the board and a 4 line system for edging. I
        primarily fly big kites (Naish 15.5 or Wipika 11.8 and larger). In
        gusty conditions you need all of the power control you can find when
        using a large kite.

        I am not exactly sure what makes the 169 Lightwave such a great
        board. I think it is a combination of the smooth surface on the
        bottom of the board and small fins. It is also more forgiving
        because of its size. However, I would like to try the Lightwave in a
        shorter length. I prefer my LF 142 Picklefork when jumping because
        it is less awkward in the air.

        I have tried the RRD and I can tell you that the Lightwave is more
        fun and stable to ride toe side. I think durability is also a big
        issue even if you don't ride up on the beach. You always have the
        issue of transporting the board around. Boards sometimes get knocked
        over and you really need a durable board if you plan to travel.

        Kenny

        --- In ksurfschool@y..., Mel <kitebord@p...> wrote:
        > <fernmanus@y...> wrote:
        >
        > > I cannot compare the carving turn on a directional to a
        bidirectional ...
        > > ...it sounds like that aspect of kite surfing is very important
        to you.
        >
        > It IS very important. Ripping through a 240 degree arc, fully
        banked &
        > dragging my hand with my elbow bent (even with my legs straight) is
        one of
        > my favorite things about kiteboarding. Maybe somebody else on this
        group
        > can give a comparison.
        >
        > > I live in an area where
        > > the wind is extemely gusty.
        >
        > Me too. iwindsurf readings like 11-28 are common.
        >
        > > This means that jibes are often
        > > unpredictable.
        >
        > Yeah, but you can still nail a few, & it's GREAT. I think you're
        really
        > missing out.
        >
        > > So, I worry more about a board that can edge well
        >
        > If you're needing the edging for gusts, what kind of kite contol
        system do
        > you have?
        >
        > > and is still good during the lulls.
        >
        > Isn't the consensus that a directional is better in the lulls? I
        guess you
        > could say I've chosen a kite (or at least it's 4-line/trim loop
        control
        > system) for the gusts. Maybe you've chosen the board to handle the
        gusts
        > instead of the kite/control system.
        >
        > > I found that I could load up better
        > > on the Wake-N-Style than a directional for jumping. ...
        > > ... I like a smaller board while in the air as well.
        >
        > Okay, so jumping may be an advantage of twintips over
        directionals. I like
        > to jump too!
        >
        > > I think that Wake-N-Style feels so smooth because of the bottom
        > > surface of the board
        >
        > Anything specific about the bottom surface? Rocker, outline, vee
        (or lack
        > of it), or just some magical combination? I'd like to know what
        you think
        > it is, in case I don't get to demo ride a smaller LiteWave, or RRD
        150.
        > "Porpoising" (nose bounce) at high speed is the primary reason I'm
        > considering a new board.
        >
        > > The RRD is also a fun board, but I don't think it is
        > > nearly as durable as the Wake-N-Style.
        >
        > I mentioned riding onto the beach is nice, but I really don't need
        to, since
        > I can't do that now with my Fanatic directional, so if the RRD 150
        performs
        > well on the water I won't care about durability THAT much. The
        reason I
        > mention the RRD is because it's got that short, curved, rockered
        toe side,
        > which might improve the toe turns without compromising straight
        line or
        > jumping performance.
        >
        > Mel
      • Mel
        ... Whoops! I just read my quote. I meant to say ripping 240 degree arcs is important TO ME. ... Yes. Heel turns, for example, and it does look cool to spin
        Message 3 of 13 , Jun 11, 2001
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          <fernmanus@...> wrote:

          > Don't get me wrong. I like a good jibe, but it is not a big issue
          > with me.

          Whoops! I just read my quote. I meant to say ripping 240 degree arcs is
          important TO ME.

          > There are some really fun jibes that you can do on a
          > bidirectional.

          Yes. Heel turns, for example, and it does look cool to spin the board after
          exiting (looks to the windsurfers like a difficult trick, but is really
          quite easy), or throw up a huge wall of spray by sliding on the heel or toe
          edge.

          > I am not exactly sure what makes the 169 Lightwave such a great
          > board. I think it is a combination of the smooth surface on the
          > bottom of the board and small fins.

          Aren't those characteristics normal on bidirectional boards? The RRDs both
          have those features. The Naish 140 has some channels, maybe that's what you
          mean.

          > It is also more forgiving
          > because of its size. However, I would like to try the Lightwave in a
          > shorter length.

          Me too.

          > I prefer my LF 142 Picklefork when jumping because
          > it is less awkward in the air.

          I think that makes nearly no difference for me because the orientation of
          the board remains nearly constant (no spinning or looping).

          > I think durability is also a big
          > issue even if you don't ride up on the beach. You always have the
          > issue of transporting the board around.

          I only meant that if I can take care of an epoxy sandwich directional, an
          epoxy sandwich bidirectional shouldn't be a problem.

          Mel
        • fernmanus@yahoo.com
          Mel, Yeah, you can do some cool jibes on a bidirectional that are really easy. I like to slide out the front end of the board and then do a big low carving
          Message 4 of 13 , Jun 11, 2001
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            Mel,

            Yeah, you can do some cool jibes on a bidirectional that are really
            easy. I like to slide out the front end of the board and then do a
            big low carving jibe. You can easily lay one arm out across the
            water while doing this move.

            The bottom surface of the RRD is different than the LW. The LW has a
            P-Tex surface used on most snow boards and skis (makes me wonder if
            waxing the board might make it even better). I have seen other
            bidirectionals with this type of surface, but I haven't tried them
            yet. I also use smaller fins on my LW than the ones that come
            standard on the RRD. Whatever board you choose, you do want to pay
            close attention to the fin size on a bidirectional. Deeper fins
            allow the board to track better, but it also makes it more difficult
            to release the board to do jibes, go toeside, etc. I kind of like
            the loose feeling of the LW. I tried a Manta bidirectional
            recently. The board feels like it is on rails which is great if you
            are super-powered up, but not so fun when you want to do a little
            free-style.

            Durability is important to me after I had an epoxy board damaged by
            Delta Airlines. I have also ridden my board in water than was only
            an inch deep and scraped the board along the bottom of the lake.
            Sounds stupid, but it was a blast to ride in perfectly flat shallow
            water. Of couse, it would have been very painful if I was pitched
            forward.

            Kenny

            --- In ksurfschool@y..., Mel <kitebord@p...> wrote:
            > <fernmanus@y...> wrote:
            >
            > > Don't get me wrong. I like a good jibe, but it is not a big issue
            > > with me.
            >
            > Whoops! I just read my quote. I meant to say ripping 240 degree
            arcs is
            > important TO ME.
            >
            > > There are some really fun jibes that you can do on a
            > > bidirectional.
            >
            > Yes. Heel turns, for example, and it does look cool to spin the
            board after
            > exiting (looks to the windsurfers like a difficult trick, but is
            really
            > quite easy), or throw up a huge wall of spray by sliding on the
            heel or toe
            > edge.
            >
            > > I am not exactly sure what makes the 169 Lightwave such a great
            > > board. I think it is a combination of the smooth surface on the
            > > bottom of the board and small fins.
            >
            > Aren't those characteristics normal on bidirectional boards? The
            RRDs both
            > have those features. The Naish 140 has some channels, maybe that's
            what you
            > mean.
            >
            > > It is also more forgiving
            > > because of its size. However, I would like to try the Lightwave
            in a
            > > shorter length.
            >
            > Me too.
            >
            > > I prefer my LF 142 Picklefork when jumping because
            > > it is less awkward in the air.
            >
            > I think that makes nearly no difference for me because the
            orientation of
            > the board remains nearly constant (no spinning or looping).
            >
            > > I think durability is also a big
            > > issue even if you don't ride up on the beach. You always have the
            > > issue of transporting the board around.
            >
            > I only meant that if I can take care of an epoxy sandwich
            directional, an
            > epoxy sandwich bidirectional shouldn't be a problem.
            >
            > Mel
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