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Re: wake vs. directional round 3 :)

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  • fernmanus@yahoo.com
    Mel, I cannot compare the carving turn on a directional to a bidirectional since I never learned to jibe on a directional. However, it sounds like that aspect
    Message 1 of 13 , Jun 8, 2001
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      Mel,

      I cannot compare the carving turn on a directional to a bidirectional
      since I never learned to jibe on a directional. However, it sounds
      like that aspect of kite surfing is very important to you.

      I personally do not worry much about jibing. I live in an area where
      the wind is extemely gusty. This means that jibes are often
      unpredictable. So, I worry more about a board that can edge well and
      is still good during the lulls. I found that I could load up better
      on the Wake-N-Style than a directional for jumping.

      I think that Wake-N-Style feels so smooth because of the bottom
      surface of the board and the small rails as well as the flexibility
      of the board. The RRD is also a fun board, but I don't think it is
      nearly as durable as the Wake-N-Style. Lately, I have been riding
      more on a LF Picklefork. That board is a riot if you have plenty of
      power. I like a smaller board while in the air as well.

      Kenny


      --- In ksurfschool@y..., Mel <kitebord@p...> wrote:
      > Day 3 on LiteWave 169.
      >
      > Spinning the board from toe side back to heel side after coming out
      of a toe
      > turn is actually pretty easy IF powered up enough to plane with the
      kite
      > high, OR if barely powered up enough to plane at all. The other
      trick I
      > learned is to initiate the spin HARD, & then back off to prevent
      > over-rotation.
      >
      > I still found it harder to do a really good toe carve, partly
      because of the
      > difficulty in exiting pointing upwind* (reduces carving arc by 30
      degrees or
      > so), AND because of lateral (& possibly longitudinal) back foot
      placement,
      > although that may be helped by a narrower board & shorter, rounder,
      rockered
      > toe rail.
      > *due to the trim line wrapping around my side from its attachment
      point on
      > the spreader.
      >
      > While riding, I began to wonder why I'm putting all this thought &
      effort
      > into trying to get toe turns to be as good as those on a
      directional. Not
      > better, just equal, so why bother? Just so I can also do heel
      turns? I
      > wonder about jumping too, since I really like getting high &
      landing "dry",
      > but haven't had the conditions for that yet on the twin tip.
      >
      > I do like being able to ride right over kelp & buoy lines, and come
      closer
      > to shore before dismounting*, & again, I do like not having to put
      my new
      > back foot in the strap again, but I REALLY like those directional
      toe turns.
      > *right ONTO shore, in the case of the LiteWave.
      >
      > Mel
    • Mel
      ... It IS very important. Ripping through a 240 degree arc, fully banked & dragging my hand with my elbow bent (even with my legs straight) is one of my
      Message 2 of 13 , Jun 8, 2001
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        <fernmanus@...> wrote:

        > I cannot compare the carving turn on a directional to a bidirectional ...
        > ...it sounds like that aspect of kite surfing is very important to you.

        It IS very important. Ripping through a 240 degree arc, fully banked &
        dragging my hand with my elbow bent (even with my legs straight) is one of
        my favorite things about kiteboarding. Maybe somebody else on this group
        can give a comparison.

        > I live in an area where
        > the wind is extemely gusty.

        Me too. iwindsurf readings like 11-28 are common.

        > This means that jibes are often
        > unpredictable.

        Yeah, but you can still nail a few, & it's GREAT. I think you're really
        missing out.

        > So, I worry more about a board that can edge well

        If you're needing the edging for gusts, what kind of kite contol system do
        you have?

        > and is still good during the lulls.

        Isn't the consensus that a directional is better in the lulls? I guess you
        could say I've chosen a kite (or at least it's 4-line/trim loop control
        system) for the gusts. Maybe you've chosen the board to handle the gusts
        instead of the kite/control system.

        > I found that I could load up better
        > on the Wake-N-Style than a directional for jumping. ...
        > ... I like a smaller board while in the air as well.

        Okay, so jumping may be an advantage of twintips over directionals. I like
        to jump too!

        > I think that Wake-N-Style feels so smooth because of the bottom
        > surface of the board

        Anything specific about the bottom surface? Rocker, outline, vee (or lack
        of it), or just some magical combination? I'd like to know what you think
        it is, in case I don't get to demo ride a smaller LiteWave, or RRD 150.
        "Porpoising" (nose bounce) at high speed is the primary reason I'm
        considering a new board.

        > The RRD is also a fun board, but I don't think it is
        > nearly as durable as the Wake-N-Style.

        I mentioned riding onto the beach is nice, but I really don't need to, since
        I can't do that now with my Fanatic directional, so if the RRD 150 performs
        well on the water I won't care about durability THAT much. The reason I
        mention the RRD is because it's got that short, curved, rockered toe side,
        which might improve the toe turns without compromising straight line or
        jumping performance.

        Mel
      • fernmanus@yahoo.com
        Mel, Don t get me wrong. I like a good jibe, but it is not a big issue with me. There are some really fun jibes that you can do on a bidirectional. I use
        Message 3 of 13 , Jun 11, 2001
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          Mel,

          Don't get me wrong. I like a good jibe, but it is not a big issue
          with me. There are some really fun jibes that you can do on a
          bidirectional.

          I use both the edge of the board and a 4 line system for edging. I
          primarily fly big kites (Naish 15.5 or Wipika 11.8 and larger). In
          gusty conditions you need all of the power control you can find when
          using a large kite.

          I am not exactly sure what makes the 169 Lightwave such a great
          board. I think it is a combination of the smooth surface on the
          bottom of the board and small fins. It is also more forgiving
          because of its size. However, I would like to try the Lightwave in a
          shorter length. I prefer my LF 142 Picklefork when jumping because
          it is less awkward in the air.

          I have tried the RRD and I can tell you that the Lightwave is more
          fun and stable to ride toe side. I think durability is also a big
          issue even if you don't ride up on the beach. You always have the
          issue of transporting the board around. Boards sometimes get knocked
          over and you really need a durable board if you plan to travel.

          Kenny

          --- In ksurfschool@y..., Mel <kitebord@p...> wrote:
          > <fernmanus@y...> wrote:
          >
          > > I cannot compare the carving turn on a directional to a
          bidirectional ...
          > > ...it sounds like that aspect of kite surfing is very important
          to you.
          >
          > It IS very important. Ripping through a 240 degree arc, fully
          banked &
          > dragging my hand with my elbow bent (even with my legs straight) is
          one of
          > my favorite things about kiteboarding. Maybe somebody else on this
          group
          > can give a comparison.
          >
          > > I live in an area where
          > > the wind is extemely gusty.
          >
          > Me too. iwindsurf readings like 11-28 are common.
          >
          > > This means that jibes are often
          > > unpredictable.
          >
          > Yeah, but you can still nail a few, & it's GREAT. I think you're
          really
          > missing out.
          >
          > > So, I worry more about a board that can edge well
          >
          > If you're needing the edging for gusts, what kind of kite contol
          system do
          > you have?
          >
          > > and is still good during the lulls.
          >
          > Isn't the consensus that a directional is better in the lulls? I
          guess you
          > could say I've chosen a kite (or at least it's 4-line/trim loop
          control
          > system) for the gusts. Maybe you've chosen the board to handle the
          gusts
          > instead of the kite/control system.
          >
          > > I found that I could load up better
          > > on the Wake-N-Style than a directional for jumping. ...
          > > ... I like a smaller board while in the air as well.
          >
          > Okay, so jumping may be an advantage of twintips over
          directionals. I like
          > to jump too!
          >
          > > I think that Wake-N-Style feels so smooth because of the bottom
          > > surface of the board
          >
          > Anything specific about the bottom surface? Rocker, outline, vee
          (or lack
          > of it), or just some magical combination? I'd like to know what
          you think
          > it is, in case I don't get to demo ride a smaller LiteWave, or RRD
          150.
          > "Porpoising" (nose bounce) at high speed is the primary reason I'm
          > considering a new board.
          >
          > > The RRD is also a fun board, but I don't think it is
          > > nearly as durable as the Wake-N-Style.
          >
          > I mentioned riding onto the beach is nice, but I really don't need
          to, since
          > I can't do that now with my Fanatic directional, so if the RRD 150
          performs
          > well on the water I won't care about durability THAT much. The
          reason I
          > mention the RRD is because it's got that short, curved, rockered
          toe side,
          > which might improve the toe turns without compromising straight
          line or
          > jumping performance.
          >
          > Mel
        • Mel
          ... Whoops! I just read my quote. I meant to say ripping 240 degree arcs is important TO ME. ... Yes. Heel turns, for example, and it does look cool to spin
          Message 4 of 13 , Jun 11, 2001
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            <fernmanus@...> wrote:

            > Don't get me wrong. I like a good jibe, but it is not a big issue
            > with me.

            Whoops! I just read my quote. I meant to say ripping 240 degree arcs is
            important TO ME.

            > There are some really fun jibes that you can do on a
            > bidirectional.

            Yes. Heel turns, for example, and it does look cool to spin the board after
            exiting (looks to the windsurfers like a difficult trick, but is really
            quite easy), or throw up a huge wall of spray by sliding on the heel or toe
            edge.

            > I am not exactly sure what makes the 169 Lightwave such a great
            > board. I think it is a combination of the smooth surface on the
            > bottom of the board and small fins.

            Aren't those characteristics normal on bidirectional boards? The RRDs both
            have those features. The Naish 140 has some channels, maybe that's what you
            mean.

            > It is also more forgiving
            > because of its size. However, I would like to try the Lightwave in a
            > shorter length.

            Me too.

            > I prefer my LF 142 Picklefork when jumping because
            > it is less awkward in the air.

            I think that makes nearly no difference for me because the orientation of
            the board remains nearly constant (no spinning or looping).

            > I think durability is also a big
            > issue even if you don't ride up on the beach. You always have the
            > issue of transporting the board around.

            I only meant that if I can take care of an epoxy sandwich directional, an
            epoxy sandwich bidirectional shouldn't be a problem.

            Mel
          • fernmanus@yahoo.com
            Mel, Yeah, you can do some cool jibes on a bidirectional that are really easy. I like to slide out the front end of the board and then do a big low carving
            Message 5 of 13 , Jun 11, 2001
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              Mel,

              Yeah, you can do some cool jibes on a bidirectional that are really
              easy. I like to slide out the front end of the board and then do a
              big low carving jibe. You can easily lay one arm out across the
              water while doing this move.

              The bottom surface of the RRD is different than the LW. The LW has a
              P-Tex surface used on most snow boards and skis (makes me wonder if
              waxing the board might make it even better). I have seen other
              bidirectionals with this type of surface, but I haven't tried them
              yet. I also use smaller fins on my LW than the ones that come
              standard on the RRD. Whatever board you choose, you do want to pay
              close attention to the fin size on a bidirectional. Deeper fins
              allow the board to track better, but it also makes it more difficult
              to release the board to do jibes, go toeside, etc. I kind of like
              the loose feeling of the LW. I tried a Manta bidirectional
              recently. The board feels like it is on rails which is great if you
              are super-powered up, but not so fun when you want to do a little
              free-style.

              Durability is important to me after I had an epoxy board damaged by
              Delta Airlines. I have also ridden my board in water than was only
              an inch deep and scraped the board along the bottom of the lake.
              Sounds stupid, but it was a blast to ride in perfectly flat shallow
              water. Of couse, it would have been very painful if I was pitched
              forward.

              Kenny

              --- In ksurfschool@y..., Mel <kitebord@p...> wrote:
              > <fernmanus@y...> wrote:
              >
              > > Don't get me wrong. I like a good jibe, but it is not a big issue
              > > with me.
              >
              > Whoops! I just read my quote. I meant to say ripping 240 degree
              arcs is
              > important TO ME.
              >
              > > There are some really fun jibes that you can do on a
              > > bidirectional.
              >
              > Yes. Heel turns, for example, and it does look cool to spin the
              board after
              > exiting (looks to the windsurfers like a difficult trick, but is
              really
              > quite easy), or throw up a huge wall of spray by sliding on the
              heel or toe
              > edge.
              >
              > > I am not exactly sure what makes the 169 Lightwave such a great
              > > board. I think it is a combination of the smooth surface on the
              > > bottom of the board and small fins.
              >
              > Aren't those characteristics normal on bidirectional boards? The
              RRDs both
              > have those features. The Naish 140 has some channels, maybe that's
              what you
              > mean.
              >
              > > It is also more forgiving
              > > because of its size. However, I would like to try the Lightwave
              in a
              > > shorter length.
              >
              > Me too.
              >
              > > I prefer my LF 142 Picklefork when jumping because
              > > it is less awkward in the air.
              >
              > I think that makes nearly no difference for me because the
              orientation of
              > the board remains nearly constant (no spinning or looping).
              >
              > > I think durability is also a big
              > > issue even if you don't ride up on the beach. You always have the
              > > issue of transporting the board around.
              >
              > I only meant that if I can take care of an epoxy sandwich
              directional, an
              > epoxy sandwich bidirectional shouldn't be a problem.
              >
              > Mel
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