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Re: [ksurfschool] Re: Learning to kitesurf

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  • Mark Frasier
    Yeah, the power difference is unreal. A good rule of thumb is that if you could use a certain kite to buggy in a given wind it s too small for kitesurfing. You
    Message 1 of 20 , Mar 3, 2001
      Yeah, the power difference is unreal. A good rule of thumb is that if you
      could use a certain kite to buggy in a given wind it's too small for
      kitesurfing. You should use a kite that's impossibly huge for buggying. To
      learn to waterstart and cruise downwind you could use a kite that is just
      barely too big to buggy with, but you won't get upwind with it (at least til
      you get manry sessions of experience).

      I started with buggying, too, and it's a huge help but also a hindrance in
      some ways. Buggiers, I think, tend to turn the board too suddenly and
      sharply, and we try to go upwind too steeply, which results in not being
      able to stay upwind at all.

      There's also a well-developed "kite safety sense" that starts ringing bells
      just UNDER the amount of power you need to kitesurf! Your good sense tells
      you not to put up something bigger. Try to overcome this in small steps....
      i.e. I'm hoping you won't read this and then go out with a kite that's going
      to kill you!

      When I was learning, I was totally on my own - no one to tell me I was
      underpowered. I eventually overcame this problem by going out on a day when
      the wind started at 14 and picked up to about 19. That was the first day I
      was really able to ride a whole session without walking.

      The other time your saftey sense is a hindrance is when you're learning to
      jump. Buggiers know it's death to cut the kite back when you're powered up
      and moving along at 25 mph. It was hard for me to totally let go of that.

      Back to the question - definately drive the hour for the first few sessions.
      After you've launched and landed a fully powered kite and been on the water
      a few times you'll be able to judge for yourself if your other spot is a
      possibility.

      Do you ever come down to Maine? If so you'll have to try Pine Point (same
      beach as Old Orchard, just the northern part of it). It's a great spot about
      3 hours on either side of low tide. The wind is onshore but there's a
      sandbar that goes out about 1/2 mile where the Scarborough River comes out.
      At low tide you can walk all the way out without even getting wet, and near
      the beach or the sandbar the water is shallow enough to wade back if you
      can't relaunch your kite. Very smooth thermal winds late spring, summer &
      early fall.

      Mark Frasier

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Dave Raue" <theraves@...>
      To: <ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 1:30 PM
      Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Re: Learning to kitesurf


      > Hi Troy,
      >
      > If you've been buggying and kiteskiing you're got the basics covered.
      > What's MOST different about kitesurfing is how much more power you need.
      I
      > came from buggying and it took me a long time to accept that the minimum
      > power for kitesurfing is about 2X what you'd want for buggying. Hence
      need
      > for space cause potential for getting out of control is far greater.
      >
      > -D
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: <cglazier@...>
      > To: <ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 1:43 PM
      > Subject: [ksurfschool] Re: Learning to kitesurf
      >
      >
      > > Hi Troy
      > > We all have experience kitesurfing in less than ideal areas.
      > > Those wide open beaches with perfect sideshore winds are not as
      > > common as the kiteboard magazines might make you think. Even kite
      > > beach in Maui is actually somewhat cramped.
      > >
      > > When learning though, be sure to have lots of open area (sand, grass
      > > or water) around and downwind of where you launch. It is quite common
      > > to get dragged downwind and you don't want jagged rocks there! Don't
      > > even think of launching in a "restricted" area until you are very
      > > confident of your skills. (Maybe you know all this from buggying.)
      > >
      > > You might consider a reel bar which I believe would allow you to self
      > > launch in a more controlled fashion.
      > >
      > > Where you land is less critcal since you can crash the kite in the
      > > water near shore and then swim in.
      > >
      > > Chris G.
      > > Vancouver
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In ksurfschool@y..., "Troy Bezanson" <troy_bezanson@y...> wrote:
      > > > I've been kite buggying for a while now, and have been kiteskiing
      > > all
      > > > winter. I've got a good understanding of staying upwind, and am
      > > ready to
      > > > buy a bigger quite for my local wind conditions.
      > > >
      > > > I want to start kitesurfing this spring, but have been told that
      > > our area
      > > > wouldn't be very good for learning.
      > > >
      > > > I live on the atlantic ocean (Nova Scotia, Canada) and have access
      > > to many
      > > > lakes too.
      > > > Our wind is generally gusty and between 15-40km.
      > > >
      > > > I understand it is important to have a lot of beach and the fewer
      > > trees
      > > > along the shore the better.
      > > > Unfortunatelty there are always trees, roads or powerlines along
      > > the shore.
      > > >
      > > > Should I be discouraged from starting the sport in my area? I live
      > > an hour
      > > > from a great spot for learning(long beach, no obstacles) Once I
      > > learn would
      > > > It be "safe enough" to kitesurf in an area with less beach?
      > > >
      > > > I think once I learned to stay upwind, the length of the beach
      > > wouldn't be
      > > > as much of an issue. Falling would be more of a problem.
      > > >
      > > > Anyone have any experience kitesurfing in a more restricted
      > > launching area?
      > > > Any suggestions? (besides staying away from powerlines)
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
      >
    • Hung Vu
      ... Just make sure you USE A SAFETY leash! A safety leash give you more confident to be powered properly while kitesurfing. Hung.
      Message 2 of 20 , Mar 3, 2001
        Mark Frasier wrote:
        > There's also a well-developed "kite safety sense" that starts ringing bells
        > just UNDER the amount of power you need to kitesurf! Your good sense tells
        > you not to put up something bigger. Try to overcome this in small steps....
        > i.e. I'm hoping you won't read this and then go out with a kite that's going
        > to kill you!

        Just make sure you USE A SAFETY leash! A safety leash give you more
        confident to be "powered properly" while kitesurfing.

        Hung.
      • Mark Frasier
        ... sessions. ... water ... Oh, I just realised you probably want to know before you buy gear so you can decide if it s worth spending the $$$. Is there anyone
        Message 3 of 20 , Mar 3, 2001
          > Back to the question - definately drive the hour for the first few
          sessions.
          > After you've launched and landed a fully powered kite and been on the
          water
          > a few times you'll be able to judge for yourself if your other spot is a
          > possibility.
          ...
          > Mark Frasier

          Oh, I just realised you probably want to know before you buy gear so you can
          decide if it's worth spending the $$$. Is there anyone around who kitesurfs
          who could check out the spot with you?

          My regular spot (Pine Point) is about 2 hrs from my house and I definately
          consider it worth the drive. I usually get to the beach at least twice a
          week, sometimes more. I even drive 1.5 hrs there after work, get an hour or
          so of riding before dark, then drive the 2 hrs home*. It's much more fun
          than buggying, IMO. So maybe it's worth it even if you have to drive 1 hr
          each way every time??

          *(I do have a spot that's about 1/2 hr from work on a large lake, but it's
          gusty and the wind direction is only good there when it's bad at Pine Point)

          Mark Frasier
        • cglazier@home.com
          ... learned in ... I was headed to Cabarete for 2 weeks, but maybe I should come to Ottawa instead to try your minus 20 degree kiteskiing.. :-) Chris G
          Message 4 of 20 , Mar 4, 2001
            --- In ksurfschool@y..., Hung Vu <hungvu@n...> wrote:
            > This is a very interesting; however, after I have helped a number of
            > people kiteskiing, I believe that kiteskiing is the best way to
            > introduce people into kite traction sport. It's easy, can be
            learned in
            > 1-2 days and also a very good excuse to get outside in minus 20 c
            > (roughly minus 20 f) temperature. After that, the progression to
            > kitesurfing the subsequent summer is almost automatic.
            >
            > Hung.
            >

            I was headed to Cabarete for 2 weeks, but maybe I should come to
            Ottawa instead to try your minus 20 degree kiteskiing.. :-)

            Chris G
          • Hung Vu
            ... Maybe you should ;-) Seriously, one of my kitesurfing pioneer friends, Jan Pina (who took most of the photos for the Kitesurfing School web site) in
            Message 5 of 20 , Mar 4, 2001
              cglazier@... wrote:
              > I was headed to Cabarete for 2 weeks, but maybe I should come to
              > Ottawa instead to try your minus 20 degree kiteskiing.. :-)

              Maybe you should ;-)

              Seriously, one of my kitesurfing "pioneer" friends, Jan Pina (who took
              most of the photos for the Kitesurfing School web site) in Santo Domingo
              (4 hour drive from Cabarete) is planning to come to Ottawa in the winter
              (hopefully the next winter) for snowboarding/skiing (we have the "best"
              Eastern North American ski resort within 2 hours drive - Mont. Tremblant
              - and numerous smaller resorts within 15 minutes from Ottawa which open
              everyday until 10:30 PM - so you can snowboard/ski after work :-).

              Now with kiteskiing (1 block from my house), he will get double bonus
              ::--))

              Hung.
            • Hung Vu
              ... There was some posts recently about kite size and rider weight, please go to the archive at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ksurfschool/message/1136 (and
              Message 6 of 20 , Mar 5, 2001
                > Troy Bezanson wrote:
                >
                > There's no one around, but I'm determined enough that I'm going to try
                > it.
                > I weigh just under 200lbs, and our wind around here is usually
                > 15-20km/h gusting to 30-40 km/h
                > I think the bigger the kite the better. I'd prefer to learn in
                > lighter winds as it would be less likely to get into an
                > overpowered situation.
                > Any suggestions on kite size would be helpful.

                There was some posts recently about kite size and rider weight, please
                go to the archive at
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ksurfschool/message/1136 (and read all the
                follow-up posts)

                Just remember that kite size is "approximately" proportional to rider
                weight (such that you can figure out the right kite size for you in the
                same wind as another rider)

                > One of the nice things about living in Nova Scotia is that I live on a
                > penninsula, and if the wind isn't good on the atlantic side, I can go
                > to the other side where the wind is often quite different. I hadn't
                > thought about areas that are covered by only 2-3 feet of water.
                > I know of 2 other spots that you can wade out into the water quite a
                > ways where it is only up to your hips and where there are sand bars.
                > This would be ideal for leaning. I guess there is no reason why you'd
                > have to be in deep water to kite surf.

                Shallow water is actually easier to learn on (as you can walk upwind
                without having to go to shore and pack up). Just don't jump in shallow
                water and watch out for rocks or sandbars.

                P.S. I met Brian from Prince Edward Island a few years ago and he did
                try body surfing with my Wipika 5.0. He ran some kayaking excursion
                shop in PEI. He is probably a kitesurfer now. You may want to check
                him out.

                Hung.
              • mdelliott@waco.expresspersonnel.com
                Friend in a boat was the most helpful for me learning. I could launch with a off shore or side off wind and I got lots of practice using up the length of the
                Message 7 of 20 , Mar 5, 2001
                  Friend in a boat was the most helpful for me learning. I could launch
                  with a off shore or side off wind and I got lots of practice using up
                  the length of the lake down wind. Make sure you get the kite down and
                  secure before you get close to the downwind shore.Biggest trouble on
                  our lake is that walking back any distance is through heavily wooded
                  areas, ravines etc. I even copied somebodies idea when alone i would
                  let my waverunner,with 15 ft line and anchor suspended in the water,
                  drift down wind while i practiced trying to get upwind. The
                  waverunner would drift to the down wind end of the lake and the
                  anchor would catch before it washed onto shore. then i would ride the
                  waverunner with my gear upwind and start over.

                  Im still learning but agree with the advice on the reel bar. I didnt
                  have one when I learned the basics but now really appreciate it . I
                  can safely launch from smaller clearings than required on a regular
                  bar and still be safe. MARK
                • hyperboutlife@aol.com
                  Mark... which reel bar are you using?? Care to give a review of it?? I am in Ohio and face many of the conditions you speak of and think the reel bar would be
                  Message 8 of 20 , Mar 5, 2001
                    Mark... which reel bar are you using?? Care to give a review of it?? I am in
                    Ohio and face many of the conditions you speak of and think the reel bar
                    would be great. Let me know
                    Ben
                  • mdelliott@waco.expresspersonnel.com
                    ... it?? I am in ... reel bar ... Using a flowbee. If you go to the kitesurf group and search on flowbee youll see several posts. In general I like it. I
                    Message 9 of 20 , Mar 6, 2001
                      --- In ksurfschool@y..., hyperboutlife@a... wrote:
                      > Mark... which reel bar are you using?? Care to give a review of
                      it?? I am in
                      > Ohio and face many of the conditions you speak of and think the
                      reel bar
                      > would be great. Let me know
                      > Ben

                      Using a flowbee. If you go to the kitesurf group and search on
                      "flowbee" youll see several posts.

                      In general I like it. I think it is the only reel bar designed to
                      reel in while flying. Only bad thing is that on the 4line
                      naish/wipika setup you only have about 6 inches of adjustment on the
                      depowering .I think more is helpful on my 11.5 and 15.5 naish, doesnt
                      seem to matter as much on smaller kites. Its great for launching on
                      our lake. With side shore or a little side on I can wade 10 ft away
                      from shore, launch the kite with 10 ft of line and use to pull myself
                      into deep water away from shore and then allow kite to reel out to 40m
                      for flying. Landing is identical in reverse. Whenever I am close to
                      shore I only have 10 ft of line out and am able to avoid most
                      kitesurf dangers experienced with lines fully extended. Ill assume
                      you read kitesurf group posts on flowbee, let me know if you have any
                      other questions. Might also search for "skyte" or "reelbar" or "Reel-
                      bar" Flowbee is EXPENSIVE, I think around $1000. I ordered mine
                      before they were even released and got a cheaper price, supposedly
                      wholesale for the first 50 that ordered It is probably worth that as
                      far as cost to manufacture, seems to be pretty precision made as far
                      as gearing etc,carbon fiber shaft and aluminum constuction. Its just
                      a question if its worth a grand for its added convienience, for me it
                      is. MARK
                    • Mel
                      KiteBoarding Magazine says they ll drop to about $800 soon. Still expensive, but better than $1000! Mel ... From:
                      Message 10 of 20 , Mar 6, 2001
                        KiteBoarding Magazine says they'll drop to about $800 soon. Still
                        expensive, but better than $1000!

                        Mel
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: <mdelliott@...>

                        > ... Flowbee is EXPENSIVE, I think around $1000....
                      • Troy Bezanson
                        Maine sounds great, It s close enough to drive there for a long weekend vacation. Thanks for all of your advice. It s nice to be able to come to a group like
                        Message 11 of 20 , Mar 4, 2007
                          Maine sounds great, It's close enough to drive there for a long weekend vacation.  Thanks for all of your advice.
                          It's nice to be able to come to a group like this and have any questions answered.  There is no one else around here who even fly kites but I'm working on getting a few people into the sport.
                           
                          Thanks again,
                          Troy
                           
                           
                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Mark Frasier [mailto:brockus@...]
                          Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 10:44 PM
                          To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Re: Learning to kitesurf

                          Yeah, the power difference is unreal. A good rule of thumb is that if you
                          could use a certain kite to buggy in a given wind it's too small for
                          kitesurfing. You should use a kite that's impossibly huge for buggying. To
                          learn to waterstart and cruise downwind you could use a kite that is just
                          barely too big to buggy with, but you won't get upwind with it (at least til
                          you get manry sessions of experience).

                          I started with buggying, too, and it's a huge help but also a hindrance in
                          some ways. Buggiers, I think, tend to turn the board too suddenly and
                          sharply, and we try to go upwind too steeply, which results in not being
                          able to stay upwind at all.

                          There's also a well-developed "kite safety sense" that starts ringing bells
                          just UNDER the amount of power you need to kitesurf! Your good sense tells
                          you not to put up something bigger. Try to overcome this in small steps....
                          i.e. I'm hoping you won't read this and then go out with a kite that's going
                          to kill you!

                          When I was learning, I was totally on my own - no one to tell me I was
                          underpowered. I eventually overcame this problem by going out on a day when
                          the wind started at 14 and picked up to about 19. That was the first day I
                          was really able to ride a whole session without walking.

                          The other time your saftey sense is a hindrance is when you're learning to
                          jump. Buggiers know it's death to cut the kite back when you're powered up
                          and moving along at 25 mph. It was hard for me to totally let go of that.

                          Back to the question - definately drive the hour for the first few sessions.
                          After you've launched and landed a fully powered kite and been on the water
                          a few times you'll be able to judge for yourself if your other spot is a
                          possibility.

                          Do you ever come down to Maine? If so you'll have to try Pine Point (same
                          beach as Old Orchard, just the northern part of it). It's a great spot about
                          3 hours on either side of low tide. The wind is onshore but there's a
                          sandbar that goes out about 1/2 mile where the Scarborough River comes out.
                          At low tide you can walk all the way out without even getting wet, and near
                          the beach or the sandbar the water is shallow enough to wade back if you
                          can't relaunch your kite. Very smooth thermal winds late spring, summer &
                          early fall.

                          Mark Frasier

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Dave Raue" <theraves@...>
                          To: <ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 1:30 PM
                          Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Re: Learning to kitesurf


                          > Hi Troy,
                          >
                          > If you've been buggying and kiteskiing you're got the basics covered.
                          > What's MOST different about kitesurfing is how much more power you need.
                          I
                          > came from buggying and it took me a long time to accept that the minimum
                          > power for kitesurfing is about 2X what you'd want for buggying.  Hence
                          need
                          > for space cause potential for getting out of control is far greater.
                          >
                          > -D
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: <cglazier@...>
                          > To: <ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com>
                          > Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 1:43 PM
                          > Subject: [ksurfschool] Re: Learning to kitesurf
                          >
                          >
                          > > Hi Troy
                          > > We all have experience kitesurfing in less than ideal areas.
                          > > Those wide open beaches with perfect sideshore winds are not as
                          > > common as the kiteboard magazines might make you think. Even kite
                          > > beach in Maui is actually somewhat cramped.
                          > >
                          > > When learning though, be sure to have lots of open area (sand, grass
                          > > or water) around and downwind of where you launch. It is quite common
                          > > to get dragged downwind and you don't want jagged rocks there! Don't
                          > > even think of launching in a "restricted" area until you are very
                          > > confident of your skills. (Maybe you know all this from buggying.)
                          > >
                          > > You might consider a reel bar which I believe would allow you to self
                          > > launch in a more controlled fashion.
                          > >
                          > > Where you land is less critcal since you can crash the kite in the
                          > > water near shore and then swim in.
                          > >
                          > > Chris G.
                          > > Vancouver
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > --- In ksurfschool@y..., "Troy Bezanson" <troy_bezanson@y...> wrote:
                          > > > I've been kite buggying for a while now, and have been kiteskiing
                          > > all
                          > > > winter.  I've got a good understanding of staying upwind, and am
                          > > ready to
                          > > > buy a bigger quite for my local wind conditions.
                          > > >
                          > > > I want to start kitesurfing this spring, but have been told that
                          > > our area
                          > > > wouldn't be very good for learning.
                          > > >
                          > > > I live on the atlantic ocean (Nova Scotia, Canada)  and have access
                          > > to many
                          > > > lakes too.
                          > > > Our wind is generally gusty and between 15-40km.
                          > > >
                          > > > I understand it is important to have a lot of beach and the fewer
                          > > trees
                          > > > along the shore the better.
                          > > > Unfortunatelty there are always trees, roads or powerlines along
                          > > the shore.
                          > > >
                          > > > Should I be discouraged from starting the sport in my area?  I live
                          > > an hour
                          > > > from a great spot for learning(long beach, no obstacles)  Once I
                          > > learn would
                          > > > It be "safe enough" to kitesurf in an area with less beach?
                          > > >
                          > > > I think once I learned to stay upwind, the length of the beach
                          > > wouldn't be
                          > > > as much of an issue.  Falling would be more of a problem.
                          > > >
                          > > > Anyone have any experience kitesurfing in a more restricted
                          > > launching area?
                          > > > Any suggestions? (besides staying away from powerlines)
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          >
                          >
                          >



                          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                        • Troy Bezanson
                          There s no one around, but I m determined enough that I m going to try it. I weigh just under 200lbs, and our wind around here is usually 15-20km/h gusting to
                          Message 12 of 20 , Mar 4, 2007
                            There's no one around, but I'm determined enough that I'm going to try it.
                            I weigh just under 200lbs, and our wind around here is usually 15-20km/h gusting to 30-40 km/h 
                            I think the bigger the kite the better.  I'd prefer to learn in lighter winds as it would be less likely to get into an overpowered situation.
                            Any suggestions on kite size would be helpful.  
                             
                            One of the nice things about living in Nova Scotia is that I live on a penninsula, and if the wind isn't good on the atlantic side, I can go to the other side where the wind is often quite different.   I hadn't thought about areas that are covered by only 2-3 feet of water.  I know of 2 other spots that you can wade out into the water quite a ways where it is only up to your hips and where there are sand bars.  This would be ideal for leaning.  I guess there is no reason why you'd have to be in deep water to kite surf.  
                             
                            I will difinitely take your advice on making the hour drive. 
                             
                            Thanks for your input,
                            Troy
                             
                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Mark Frasier [mailto:brockus@...]
                            Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 10:56 PM
                            To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Re: Learning to kitesurf

                            > Back to the question - definately drive the hour for the first few
                            sessions.
                            > After you've launched and landed a fully powered kite and been on the
                            water
                            > a few times you'll be able to judge for yourself if your other spot is a
                            > possibility.
                            ...
                            > Mark Frasier

                            Oh, I just realised you probably want to know before you buy gear so you can
                            decide if it's worth spending the $$$. Is there anyone around who kitesurfs
                            who could check out the spot with you?

                            My regular spot (Pine Point) is about 2 hrs from my house and I definately
                            consider it worth the drive. I usually get to the beach at least twice a
                            week, sometimes more. I even drive 1.5 hrs there after work, get an hour or
                            so of riding before dark, then drive the 2 hrs home*. It's much more fun
                            than buggying, IMO. So maybe it's worth it even if you have to drive 1 hr
                            each way every time??

                            *(I do have a spot that's about 1/2 hr from work on a large lake, but it's
                            gusty and the wind direction is only good there when it's bad at Pine Point)

                            Mark Frasier



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