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RE: [ksurfschool] Kitesurfing learning process

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  • David Stanek
    kiteskiing is great ... as long as you live outside west coast... no show bellow 3000 ASL.. David ... From:
    Message 1 of 20 , Mar 2 6:21 PM
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      kiteskiing is great ... as long as you live outside west coast... no show
      bellow 3000'ASL..
      David

      -----Original Message-----
      From:
      sentto-1363319-1105-983585290-staff=skylinewings.com@...
      [mailto:sentto-1363319-1105-983585290-staff=skylinewings.com@...
      list.com]On Behalf Of Hung Vu
      Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 5:59 PM
      To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Kitesurfing learning process


      This is a very interesting; however, after I have helped a number of
      people kiteskiing, I believe that kiteskiing is the best way to
      introduce people into kite traction sport. It's easy, can be learned in
      1-2 days and also a very good excuse to get outside in minus 20 c
      (roughly minus 20 f) temperature. After that, the progression to
      kitesurfing the subsequent summer is almost automatic.

      Hung.

      cglazier@... wrote:
      >
      > Here is a good description of the kitesurfing learning process. This
      > was found at a kitesurfing school site in the Gorge.
      >
      > http://www.windguide.com/kiteinstr.htm
      >
      > *********************************************************************
      >
      > Land Training
      > To start off a first time flier we will go over the terms we use to
      > describe the kite and it's relationship to the wind. We will cover
      > all the safety rules and discuss potential dangers. I will fly a
      > small kite to show you how the kite moves through and reacts to the
      > wind. As you learn to fly the small kite in control we will start
      > working on maneuvers and then on landing and launching the kite.
      > After you master the small kite we will move up to a medium sized
      > kite learning the feel of the power and a strong body position. You
      > will need to be so comfortable with the kite and harness that you can
      > fly it one handed while concentrating on other things. Your instincts
      > must be trained to react without thinking to keep the kite in the
      > correct location. Time spent here greatly reduces the chance of
      > damage or injury as well as reducing the "terror factor" of the next
      > few days.
      >
      > The Body Drag
      > We will start with a discussion about the water and wind and how to
      > have fun and stay away from trouble. I will help you learn to
      > evaluate the wind conditions and recognize potential dangers. we will
      > talk through the planned body drag discussing body position and
      > anticipated down wind course as well as the landing procedure. We
      > will launch a kite on land or in shallow water and practice
      > controlling the kite. Once things are well under control you will
      > move into deep water and body drag behind the kite. Body dragging
      > allows you to experience the full power of the kite and see how it
      > reacts to your movement.
      >
      > Waterstarting
      > We will start with a discussion / demonstration of body position and
      > various moves you can make with the kite which will allow you to keep
      > it in the desired portion of the sky efficiently. Next we will cover
      > the relation ship between the board, the kite and the water. This
      > leads naturally to showing you how to get on the board. We will
      > practice on land, both the beach start and the deep-water start.
      > After a few hints on controlling your speed and limiting the your air
      > time we will move to the water and start practicing the control and
      > balance needed to hold the board in position as you increase the
      > power. Next you will learn to balance over the board as you come out
      > of the water and accelerate. We will practice water starting in both
      > directions until you are proficient
      >
      > Basic Kite Surfing
      > We will start with a review of how to waterstart and center your
      > weight over the board. Next we cover getting on a plane, accelerating
      > and slowing your board as well as turning and how to keep it down on
      > the water (instead of in the sky). We will practice the basic stance
      > on land and revue board handling and turning. Once on the water I
      > will stay with you and coach you onto the board and back to land down
      > wind
      >
      > Jibing Your Kiteboard
      > Going back the other way without getting in the water is critical to
      > staying up wind and greatly increases the time you spend on the water
      > before becoming exhausted. I teach two different techniques that will
      > allow you to deal with different conditions, The early foot change
      > works best in high-speed situations and the late foot switch works in
      > lighter power situations. We will work on land to get the footwork
      > down then move to the water. We will start with a larger board and
      > move to a smaller one as soon as you get the hang of it.
      >
      > Kiteboarding Upwind
      > Moving upwind with a kite requires that you be powered up
      > consistently and that you maintain control. You need to be able to
      > get up to full speed quickly and keep the kite in the sweet spot. By
      > carefully controlling the relation ship between you and your kite you
      > can create a situation where the kite pulls you across the wind
      > instead of down wind. Your board needs to be on its up-wind edge and
      > you need to be holding the bar slightly behind the center of the
      > space between your footstraps. This will encourage the board to move
      > up-wind across the force generated by the lines. The trick is to move
      > the kite into position fast and keep it there since you will be
      > dragged down wind the rest of the time. Learning to control your
      > speed by fine tuning the angle between you and your kite allows you
      > to translate your excess speed into upwind movement. We will cover
      > the theory on land then work on it on the water. The strong up-wind
      > river current makes the gorge a great place to work on this skill.
      >
      > Jumping and Big Air
      > Jumping is the thing that makes this sport so special, the sensation
      > of being lifted out of the water and into the sky is unlike any other
      > sport. Learning to jump in control is the key to enjoying this sport
      > safely. After a discussion of flight safety and the theory of kite
      > path, ramp timing, flight position, and landings we will work with a
      > small kite on land to get the image of the kite path in your mind and
      > the motions in your arms. Then we will move onto the river where the
      > landings are a little softer. The lesson will first focus on small
      > controlled jumps and perfecting timing, flight position, and landings
      > before moving to maximizing the air.
      >
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    • Dave Raue
      Hi Troy, If you ve been buggying and kiteskiing you re got the basics covered. What s MOST different about kitesurfing is how much more power you need. I came
      Message 2 of 20 , Mar 3 10:30 AM
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        Hi Troy,

        If you've been buggying and kiteskiing you're got the basics covered.
        What's MOST different about kitesurfing is how much more power you need. I
        came from buggying and it took me a long time to accept that the minimum
        power for kitesurfing is about 2X what you'd want for buggying. Hence need
        for space cause potential for getting out of control is far greater.

        -D

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: <cglazier@...>
        To: <ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 1:43 PM
        Subject: [ksurfschool] Re: Learning to kitesurf


        > Hi Troy
        > We all have experience kitesurfing in less than ideal areas.
        > Those wide open beaches with perfect sideshore winds are not as
        > common as the kiteboard magazines might make you think. Even kite
        > beach in Maui is actually somewhat cramped.
        >
        > When learning though, be sure to have lots of open area (sand, grass
        > or water) around and downwind of where you launch. It is quite common
        > to get dragged downwind and you don't want jagged rocks there! Don't
        > even think of launching in a "restricted" area until you are very
        > confident of your skills. (Maybe you know all this from buggying.)
        >
        > You might consider a reel bar which I believe would allow you to self
        > launch in a more controlled fashion.
        >
        > Where you land is less critcal since you can crash the kite in the
        > water near shore and then swim in.
        >
        > Chris G.
        > Vancouver
        >
        >
        > --- In ksurfschool@y..., "Troy Bezanson" <troy_bezanson@y...> wrote:
        > > I've been kite buggying for a while now, and have been kiteskiing
        > all
        > > winter. I've got a good understanding of staying upwind, and am
        > ready to
        > > buy a bigger quite for my local wind conditions.
        > >
        > > I want to start kitesurfing this spring, but have been told that
        > our area
        > > wouldn't be very good for learning.
        > >
        > > I live on the atlantic ocean (Nova Scotia, Canada) and have access
        > to many
        > > lakes too.
        > > Our wind is generally gusty and between 15-40km.
        > >
        > > I understand it is important to have a lot of beach and the fewer
        > trees
        > > along the shore the better.
        > > Unfortunatelty there are always trees, roads or powerlines along
        > the shore.
        > >
        > > Should I be discouraged from starting the sport in my area? I live
        > an hour
        > > from a great spot for learning(long beach, no obstacles) Once I
        > learn would
        > > It be "safe enough" to kitesurf in an area with less beach?
        > >
        > > I think once I learned to stay upwind, the length of the beach
        > wouldn't be
        > > as much of an issue. Falling would be more of a problem.
        > >
        > > Anyone have any experience kitesurfing in a more restricted
        > launching area?
        > > Any suggestions? (besides staying away from powerlines)
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
        >
      • cglazier@home.com
        Hi Troy We all have experience kitesurfing in less than ideal areas. Those wide open beaches with perfect sideshore winds are not as common as the kiteboard
        Message 3 of 20 , Mar 3 10:43 AM
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          Hi Troy
          We all have experience kitesurfing in less than ideal areas.
          Those wide open beaches with perfect sideshore winds are not as
          common as the kiteboard magazines might make you think. Even kite
          beach in Maui is actually somewhat cramped.

          When learning though, be sure to have lots of open area (sand, grass
          or water) around and downwind of where you launch. It is quite common
          to get dragged downwind and you don't want jagged rocks there! Don't
          even think of launching in a "restricted" area until you are very
          confident of your skills. (Maybe you know all this from buggying.)

          You might consider a reel bar which I believe would allow you to self
          launch in a more controlled fashion.

          Where you land is less critcal since you can crash the kite in the
          water near shore and then swim in.

          Chris G.
          Vancouver


          --- In ksurfschool@y..., "Troy Bezanson" <troy_bezanson@y...> wrote:
          > I've been kite buggying for a while now, and have been kiteskiing
          all
          > winter. I've got a good understanding of staying upwind, and am
          ready to
          > buy a bigger quite for my local wind conditions.
          >
          > I want to start kitesurfing this spring, but have been told that
          our area
          > wouldn't be very good for learning.
          >
          > I live on the atlantic ocean (Nova Scotia, Canada) and have access
          to many
          > lakes too.
          > Our wind is generally gusty and between 15-40km.
          >
          > I understand it is important to have a lot of beach and the fewer
          trees
          > along the shore the better.
          > Unfortunatelty there are always trees, roads or powerlines along
          the shore.
          >
          > Should I be discouraged from starting the sport in my area? I live
          an hour
          > from a great spot for learning(long beach, no obstacles) Once I
          learn would
          > It be "safe enough" to kitesurf in an area with less beach?
          >
          > I think once I learned to stay upwind, the length of the beach
          wouldn't be
          > as much of an issue. Falling would be more of a problem.
          >
          > Anyone have any experience kitesurfing in a more restricted
          launching area?
          > Any suggestions? (besides staying away from powerlines)
        • Hung Vu
          ... If you don t have any beach, your best bet is to get an inflatable and launch it in shallow water. Do the same thing when you come in, land the kite in
          Message 4 of 20 , Mar 3 6:28 PM
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            > Troy Bezanson wrote:
            > Anyone have any experience kitesurfing in a more restricted launching
            > area? Any suggestions? (besides staying away from powerlines)

            If you don't have any beach, your best bet is to get an inflatable and
            launch it in shallow water. Do the same thing when you come in, land
            the kite in shallow water.

            If you don't have any beach nor shallow water then you need to find
            another spot.

            Hung.
          • Mark Frasier
            Yeah, the power difference is unreal. A good rule of thumb is that if you could use a certain kite to buggy in a given wind it s too small for kitesurfing. You
            Message 5 of 20 , Mar 3 6:44 PM
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              Yeah, the power difference is unreal. A good rule of thumb is that if you
              could use a certain kite to buggy in a given wind it's too small for
              kitesurfing. You should use a kite that's impossibly huge for buggying. To
              learn to waterstart and cruise downwind you could use a kite that is just
              barely too big to buggy with, but you won't get upwind with it (at least til
              you get manry sessions of experience).

              I started with buggying, too, and it's a huge help but also a hindrance in
              some ways. Buggiers, I think, tend to turn the board too suddenly and
              sharply, and we try to go upwind too steeply, which results in not being
              able to stay upwind at all.

              There's also a well-developed "kite safety sense" that starts ringing bells
              just UNDER the amount of power you need to kitesurf! Your good sense tells
              you not to put up something bigger. Try to overcome this in small steps....
              i.e. I'm hoping you won't read this and then go out with a kite that's going
              to kill you!

              When I was learning, I was totally on my own - no one to tell me I was
              underpowered. I eventually overcame this problem by going out on a day when
              the wind started at 14 and picked up to about 19. That was the first day I
              was really able to ride a whole session without walking.

              The other time your saftey sense is a hindrance is when you're learning to
              jump. Buggiers know it's death to cut the kite back when you're powered up
              and moving along at 25 mph. It was hard for me to totally let go of that.

              Back to the question - definately drive the hour for the first few sessions.
              After you've launched and landed a fully powered kite and been on the water
              a few times you'll be able to judge for yourself if your other spot is a
              possibility.

              Do you ever come down to Maine? If so you'll have to try Pine Point (same
              beach as Old Orchard, just the northern part of it). It's a great spot about
              3 hours on either side of low tide. The wind is onshore but there's a
              sandbar that goes out about 1/2 mile where the Scarborough River comes out.
              At low tide you can walk all the way out without even getting wet, and near
              the beach or the sandbar the water is shallow enough to wade back if you
              can't relaunch your kite. Very smooth thermal winds late spring, summer &
              early fall.

              Mark Frasier

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Dave Raue" <theraves@...>
              To: <ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 1:30 PM
              Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Re: Learning to kitesurf


              > Hi Troy,
              >
              > If you've been buggying and kiteskiing you're got the basics covered.
              > What's MOST different about kitesurfing is how much more power you need.
              I
              > came from buggying and it took me a long time to accept that the minimum
              > power for kitesurfing is about 2X what you'd want for buggying. Hence
              need
              > for space cause potential for getting out of control is far greater.
              >
              > -D
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: <cglazier@...>
              > To: <ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 1:43 PM
              > Subject: [ksurfschool] Re: Learning to kitesurf
              >
              >
              > > Hi Troy
              > > We all have experience kitesurfing in less than ideal areas.
              > > Those wide open beaches with perfect sideshore winds are not as
              > > common as the kiteboard magazines might make you think. Even kite
              > > beach in Maui is actually somewhat cramped.
              > >
              > > When learning though, be sure to have lots of open area (sand, grass
              > > or water) around and downwind of where you launch. It is quite common
              > > to get dragged downwind and you don't want jagged rocks there! Don't
              > > even think of launching in a "restricted" area until you are very
              > > confident of your skills. (Maybe you know all this from buggying.)
              > >
              > > You might consider a reel bar which I believe would allow you to self
              > > launch in a more controlled fashion.
              > >
              > > Where you land is less critcal since you can crash the kite in the
              > > water near shore and then swim in.
              > >
              > > Chris G.
              > > Vancouver
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In ksurfschool@y..., "Troy Bezanson" <troy_bezanson@y...> wrote:
              > > > I've been kite buggying for a while now, and have been kiteskiing
              > > all
              > > > winter. I've got a good understanding of staying upwind, and am
              > > ready to
              > > > buy a bigger quite for my local wind conditions.
              > > >
              > > > I want to start kitesurfing this spring, but have been told that
              > > our area
              > > > wouldn't be very good for learning.
              > > >
              > > > I live on the atlantic ocean (Nova Scotia, Canada) and have access
              > > to many
              > > > lakes too.
              > > > Our wind is generally gusty and between 15-40km.
              > > >
              > > > I understand it is important to have a lot of beach and the fewer
              > > trees
              > > > along the shore the better.
              > > > Unfortunatelty there are always trees, roads or powerlines along
              > > the shore.
              > > >
              > > > Should I be discouraged from starting the sport in my area? I live
              > > an hour
              > > > from a great spot for learning(long beach, no obstacles) Once I
              > > learn would
              > > > It be "safe enough" to kitesurf in an area with less beach?
              > > >
              > > > I think once I learned to stay upwind, the length of the beach
              > > wouldn't be
              > > > as much of an issue. Falling would be more of a problem.
              > > >
              > > > Anyone have any experience kitesurfing in a more restricted
              > > launching area?
              > > > Any suggestions? (besides staying away from powerlines)
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
              >
            • Hung Vu
              ... Just make sure you USE A SAFETY leash! A safety leash give you more confident to be powered properly while kitesurfing. Hung.
              Message 6 of 20 , Mar 3 6:51 PM
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                Mark Frasier wrote:
                > There's also a well-developed "kite safety sense" that starts ringing bells
                > just UNDER the amount of power you need to kitesurf! Your good sense tells
                > you not to put up something bigger. Try to overcome this in small steps....
                > i.e. I'm hoping you won't read this and then go out with a kite that's going
                > to kill you!

                Just make sure you USE A SAFETY leash! A safety leash give you more
                confident to be "powered properly" while kitesurfing.

                Hung.
              • Mark Frasier
                ... sessions. ... water ... Oh, I just realised you probably want to know before you buy gear so you can decide if it s worth spending the $$$. Is there anyone
                Message 7 of 20 , Mar 3 6:56 PM
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                  > Back to the question - definately drive the hour for the first few
                  sessions.
                  > After you've launched and landed a fully powered kite and been on the
                  water
                  > a few times you'll be able to judge for yourself if your other spot is a
                  > possibility.
                  ...
                  > Mark Frasier

                  Oh, I just realised you probably want to know before you buy gear so you can
                  decide if it's worth spending the $$$. Is there anyone around who kitesurfs
                  who could check out the spot with you?

                  My regular spot (Pine Point) is about 2 hrs from my house and I definately
                  consider it worth the drive. I usually get to the beach at least twice a
                  week, sometimes more. I even drive 1.5 hrs there after work, get an hour or
                  so of riding before dark, then drive the 2 hrs home*. It's much more fun
                  than buggying, IMO. So maybe it's worth it even if you have to drive 1 hr
                  each way every time??

                  *(I do have a spot that's about 1/2 hr from work on a large lake, but it's
                  gusty and the wind direction is only good there when it's bad at Pine Point)

                  Mark Frasier
                • cglazier@home.com
                  ... learned in ... I was headed to Cabarete for 2 weeks, but maybe I should come to Ottawa instead to try your minus 20 degree kiteskiing.. :-) Chris G
                  Message 8 of 20 , Mar 4 9:18 AM
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                    --- In ksurfschool@y..., Hung Vu <hungvu@n...> wrote:
                    > This is a very interesting; however, after I have helped a number of
                    > people kiteskiing, I believe that kiteskiing is the best way to
                    > introduce people into kite traction sport. It's easy, can be
                    learned in
                    > 1-2 days and also a very good excuse to get outside in minus 20 c
                    > (roughly minus 20 f) temperature. After that, the progression to
                    > kitesurfing the subsequent summer is almost automatic.
                    >
                    > Hung.
                    >

                    I was headed to Cabarete for 2 weeks, but maybe I should come to
                    Ottawa instead to try your minus 20 degree kiteskiing.. :-)

                    Chris G
                  • Hung Vu
                    ... Maybe you should ;-) Seriously, one of my kitesurfing pioneer friends, Jan Pina (who took most of the photos for the Kitesurfing School web site) in
                    Message 9 of 20 , Mar 4 2:14 PM
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                      cglazier@... wrote:
                      > I was headed to Cabarete for 2 weeks, but maybe I should come to
                      > Ottawa instead to try your minus 20 degree kiteskiing.. :-)

                      Maybe you should ;-)

                      Seriously, one of my kitesurfing "pioneer" friends, Jan Pina (who took
                      most of the photos for the Kitesurfing School web site) in Santo Domingo
                      (4 hour drive from Cabarete) is planning to come to Ottawa in the winter
                      (hopefully the next winter) for snowboarding/skiing (we have the "best"
                      Eastern North American ski resort within 2 hours drive - Mont. Tremblant
                      - and numerous smaller resorts within 15 minutes from Ottawa which open
                      everyday until 10:30 PM - so you can snowboard/ski after work :-).

                      Now with kiteskiing (1 block from my house), he will get double bonus
                      ::--))

                      Hung.
                    • Hung Vu
                      ... There was some posts recently about kite size and rider weight, please go to the archive at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ksurfschool/message/1136 (and
                      Message 10 of 20 , Mar 5 7:47 AM
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                        > Troy Bezanson wrote:
                        >
                        > There's no one around, but I'm determined enough that I'm going to try
                        > it.
                        > I weigh just under 200lbs, and our wind around here is usually
                        > 15-20km/h gusting to 30-40 km/h
                        > I think the bigger the kite the better. I'd prefer to learn in
                        > lighter winds as it would be less likely to get into an
                        > overpowered situation.
                        > Any suggestions on kite size would be helpful.

                        There was some posts recently about kite size and rider weight, please
                        go to the archive at
                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ksurfschool/message/1136 (and read all the
                        follow-up posts)

                        Just remember that kite size is "approximately" proportional to rider
                        weight (such that you can figure out the right kite size for you in the
                        same wind as another rider)

                        > One of the nice things about living in Nova Scotia is that I live on a
                        > penninsula, and if the wind isn't good on the atlantic side, I can go
                        > to the other side where the wind is often quite different. I hadn't
                        > thought about areas that are covered by only 2-3 feet of water.
                        > I know of 2 other spots that you can wade out into the water quite a
                        > ways where it is only up to your hips and where there are sand bars.
                        > This would be ideal for leaning. I guess there is no reason why you'd
                        > have to be in deep water to kite surf.

                        Shallow water is actually easier to learn on (as you can walk upwind
                        without having to go to shore and pack up). Just don't jump in shallow
                        water and watch out for rocks or sandbars.

                        P.S. I met Brian from Prince Edward Island a few years ago and he did
                        try body surfing with my Wipika 5.0. He ran some kayaking excursion
                        shop in PEI. He is probably a kitesurfer now. You may want to check
                        him out.

                        Hung.
                      • mdelliott@waco.expresspersonnel.com
                        Friend in a boat was the most helpful for me learning. I could launch with a off shore or side off wind and I got lots of practice using up the length of the
                        Message 11 of 20 , Mar 5 1:37 PM
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                          Friend in a boat was the most helpful for me learning. I could launch
                          with a off shore or side off wind and I got lots of practice using up
                          the length of the lake down wind. Make sure you get the kite down and
                          secure before you get close to the downwind shore.Biggest trouble on
                          our lake is that walking back any distance is through heavily wooded
                          areas, ravines etc. I even copied somebodies idea when alone i would
                          let my waverunner,with 15 ft line and anchor suspended in the water,
                          drift down wind while i practiced trying to get upwind. The
                          waverunner would drift to the down wind end of the lake and the
                          anchor would catch before it washed onto shore. then i would ride the
                          waverunner with my gear upwind and start over.

                          Im still learning but agree with the advice on the reel bar. I didnt
                          have one when I learned the basics but now really appreciate it . I
                          can safely launch from smaller clearings than required on a regular
                          bar and still be safe. MARK
                        • hyperboutlife@aol.com
                          Mark... which reel bar are you using?? Care to give a review of it?? I am in Ohio and face many of the conditions you speak of and think the reel bar would be
                          Message 12 of 20 , Mar 5 5:54 PM
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                            Mark... which reel bar are you using?? Care to give a review of it?? I am in
                            Ohio and face many of the conditions you speak of and think the reel bar
                            would be great. Let me know
                            Ben
                          • mdelliott@waco.expresspersonnel.com
                            ... it?? I am in ... reel bar ... Using a flowbee. If you go to the kitesurf group and search on flowbee youll see several posts. In general I like it. I
                            Message 13 of 20 , Mar 6 12:12 PM
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                              --- In ksurfschool@y..., hyperboutlife@a... wrote:
                              > Mark... which reel bar are you using?? Care to give a review of
                              it?? I am in
                              > Ohio and face many of the conditions you speak of and think the
                              reel bar
                              > would be great. Let me know
                              > Ben

                              Using a flowbee. If you go to the kitesurf group and search on
                              "flowbee" youll see several posts.

                              In general I like it. I think it is the only reel bar designed to
                              reel in while flying. Only bad thing is that on the 4line
                              naish/wipika setup you only have about 6 inches of adjustment on the
                              depowering .I think more is helpful on my 11.5 and 15.5 naish, doesnt
                              seem to matter as much on smaller kites. Its great for launching on
                              our lake. With side shore or a little side on I can wade 10 ft away
                              from shore, launch the kite with 10 ft of line and use to pull myself
                              into deep water away from shore and then allow kite to reel out to 40m
                              for flying. Landing is identical in reverse. Whenever I am close to
                              shore I only have 10 ft of line out and am able to avoid most
                              kitesurf dangers experienced with lines fully extended. Ill assume
                              you read kitesurf group posts on flowbee, let me know if you have any
                              other questions. Might also search for "skyte" or "reelbar" or "Reel-
                              bar" Flowbee is EXPENSIVE, I think around $1000. I ordered mine
                              before they were even released and got a cheaper price, supposedly
                              wholesale for the first 50 that ordered It is probably worth that as
                              far as cost to manufacture, seems to be pretty precision made as far
                              as gearing etc,carbon fiber shaft and aluminum constuction. Its just
                              a question if its worth a grand for its added convienience, for me it
                              is. MARK
                            • Mel
                              KiteBoarding Magazine says they ll drop to about $800 soon. Still expensive, but better than $1000! Mel ... From:
                              Message 14 of 20 , Mar 6 4:54 PM
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                                KiteBoarding Magazine says they'll drop to about $800 soon. Still
                                expensive, but better than $1000!

                                Mel
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: <mdelliott@...>

                                > ... Flowbee is EXPENSIVE, I think around $1000....
                              • Troy Bezanson
                                I ve been kite buggying for a while now, and have been kiteskiing all winter. I ve got a good understanding of staying upwind, and am ready to buy a bigger
                                Message 15 of 20 , Mar 3 8:31 AM
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                                  I've been kite buggying for a while now, and have been kiteskiing all winter.  I've got a good understanding of staying upwind, and am ready to buy a bigger quite for my local wind conditions.
                                   
                                  I want to start kitesurfing this spring, but have been told that our area wouldn't be very good for learning.
                                   
                                  I live on the atlantic ocean (Nova Scotia, Canada)  and have access to many lakes too.
                                  Our wind is generally gusty and between 15-40km. 
                                   
                                  I understand it is important to have a lot of beach and the fewer trees along the shore the better.
                                  Unfortunatelty there are always trees, roads or powerlines along the shore. 
                                   
                                  Should I be discouraged from starting the sport in my area?  I live an hour from a great spot for learning(long beach, no obstacles)  Once I learn would It be "safe enough" to kitesurf in an area with less beach?
                                   
                                  I think once I learned to stay upwind, the length of the beach wouldn't be as much of an issue.  Falling would be more of a problem.
                                   
                                  Anyone have any experience kitesurfing in a more restricted launching area?  Any suggestions? (besides staying away from powerlines)
                                • Troy Bezanson
                                  Maine sounds great, It s close enough to drive there for a long weekend vacation. Thanks for all of your advice. It s nice to be able to come to a group like
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Mar 4 5:28 AM
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                                    Maine sounds great, It's close enough to drive there for a long weekend vacation.  Thanks for all of your advice.
                                    It's nice to be able to come to a group like this and have any questions answered.  There is no one else around here who even fly kites but I'm working on getting a few people into the sport.
                                     
                                    Thanks again,
                                    Troy
                                     
                                     
                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: Mark Frasier [mailto:brockus@...]
                                    Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 10:44 PM
                                    To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Re: Learning to kitesurf

                                    Yeah, the power difference is unreal. A good rule of thumb is that if you
                                    could use a certain kite to buggy in a given wind it's too small for
                                    kitesurfing. You should use a kite that's impossibly huge for buggying. To
                                    learn to waterstart and cruise downwind you could use a kite that is just
                                    barely too big to buggy with, but you won't get upwind with it (at least til
                                    you get manry sessions of experience).

                                    I started with buggying, too, and it's a huge help but also a hindrance in
                                    some ways. Buggiers, I think, tend to turn the board too suddenly and
                                    sharply, and we try to go upwind too steeply, which results in not being
                                    able to stay upwind at all.

                                    There's also a well-developed "kite safety sense" that starts ringing bells
                                    just UNDER the amount of power you need to kitesurf! Your good sense tells
                                    you not to put up something bigger. Try to overcome this in small steps....
                                    i.e. I'm hoping you won't read this and then go out with a kite that's going
                                    to kill you!

                                    When I was learning, I was totally on my own - no one to tell me I was
                                    underpowered. I eventually overcame this problem by going out on a day when
                                    the wind started at 14 and picked up to about 19. That was the first day I
                                    was really able to ride a whole session without walking.

                                    The other time your saftey sense is a hindrance is when you're learning to
                                    jump. Buggiers know it's death to cut the kite back when you're powered up
                                    and moving along at 25 mph. It was hard for me to totally let go of that.

                                    Back to the question - definately drive the hour for the first few sessions.
                                    After you've launched and landed a fully powered kite and been on the water
                                    a few times you'll be able to judge for yourself if your other spot is a
                                    possibility.

                                    Do you ever come down to Maine? If so you'll have to try Pine Point (same
                                    beach as Old Orchard, just the northern part of it). It's a great spot about
                                    3 hours on either side of low tide. The wind is onshore but there's a
                                    sandbar that goes out about 1/2 mile where the Scarborough River comes out.
                                    At low tide you can walk all the way out without even getting wet, and near
                                    the beach or the sandbar the water is shallow enough to wade back if you
                                    can't relaunch your kite. Very smooth thermal winds late spring, summer &
                                    early fall.

                                    Mark Frasier

                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: "Dave Raue" <theraves@...>
                                    To: <ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 1:30 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Re: Learning to kitesurf


                                    > Hi Troy,
                                    >
                                    > If you've been buggying and kiteskiing you're got the basics covered.
                                    > What's MOST different about kitesurfing is how much more power you need.
                                    I
                                    > came from buggying and it took me a long time to accept that the minimum
                                    > power for kitesurfing is about 2X what you'd want for buggying.  Hence
                                    need
                                    > for space cause potential for getting out of control is far greater.
                                    >
                                    > -D
                                    >
                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > From: <cglazier@...>
                                    > To: <ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com>
                                    > Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 1:43 PM
                                    > Subject: [ksurfschool] Re: Learning to kitesurf
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > > Hi Troy
                                    > > We all have experience kitesurfing in less than ideal areas.
                                    > > Those wide open beaches with perfect sideshore winds are not as
                                    > > common as the kiteboard magazines might make you think. Even kite
                                    > > beach in Maui is actually somewhat cramped.
                                    > >
                                    > > When learning though, be sure to have lots of open area (sand, grass
                                    > > or water) around and downwind of where you launch. It is quite common
                                    > > to get dragged downwind and you don't want jagged rocks there! Don't
                                    > > even think of launching in a "restricted" area until you are very
                                    > > confident of your skills. (Maybe you know all this from buggying.)
                                    > >
                                    > > You might consider a reel bar which I believe would allow you to self
                                    > > launch in a more controlled fashion.
                                    > >
                                    > > Where you land is less critcal since you can crash the kite in the
                                    > > water near shore and then swim in.
                                    > >
                                    > > Chris G.
                                    > > Vancouver
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In ksurfschool@y..., "Troy Bezanson" <troy_bezanson@y...> wrote:
                                    > > > I've been kite buggying for a while now, and have been kiteskiing
                                    > > all
                                    > > > winter.  I've got a good understanding of staying upwind, and am
                                    > > ready to
                                    > > > buy a bigger quite for my local wind conditions.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > I want to start kitesurfing this spring, but have been told that
                                    > > our area
                                    > > > wouldn't be very good for learning.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > I live on the atlantic ocean (Nova Scotia, Canada)  and have access
                                    > > to many
                                    > > > lakes too.
                                    > > > Our wind is generally gusty and between 15-40km.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > I understand it is important to have a lot of beach and the fewer
                                    > > trees
                                    > > > along the shore the better.
                                    > > > Unfortunatelty there are always trees, roads or powerlines along
                                    > > the shore.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Should I be discouraged from starting the sport in my area?  I live
                                    > > an hour
                                    > > > from a great spot for learning(long beach, no obstacles)  Once I
                                    > > learn would
                                    > > > It be "safe enough" to kitesurf in an area with less beach?
                                    > > >
                                    > > > I think once I learned to stay upwind, the length of the beach
                                    > > wouldn't be
                                    > > > as much of an issue.  Falling would be more of a problem.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Anyone have any experience kitesurfing in a more restricted
                                    > > launching area?
                                    > > > Any suggestions? (besides staying away from powerlines)
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >



                                    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                                  • Troy Bezanson
                                    There s no one around, but I m determined enough that I m going to try it. I weigh just under 200lbs, and our wind around here is usually 15-20km/h gusting to
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Mar 4 2:33 PM
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                                      There's no one around, but I'm determined enough that I'm going to try it.
                                      I weigh just under 200lbs, and our wind around here is usually 15-20km/h gusting to 30-40 km/h 
                                      I think the bigger the kite the better.  I'd prefer to learn in lighter winds as it would be less likely to get into an overpowered situation.
                                      Any suggestions on kite size would be helpful.  
                                       
                                      One of the nice things about living in Nova Scotia is that I live on a penninsula, and if the wind isn't good on the atlantic side, I can go to the other side where the wind is often quite different.   I hadn't thought about areas that are covered by only 2-3 feet of water.  I know of 2 other spots that you can wade out into the water quite a ways where it is only up to your hips and where there are sand bars.  This would be ideal for leaning.  I guess there is no reason why you'd have to be in deep water to kite surf.  
                                       
                                      I will difinitely take your advice on making the hour drive. 
                                       
                                      Thanks for your input,
                                      Troy
                                       
                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: Mark Frasier [mailto:brockus@...]
                                      Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 10:56 PM
                                      To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Re: Learning to kitesurf

                                      > Back to the question - definately drive the hour for the first few
                                      sessions.
                                      > After you've launched and landed a fully powered kite and been on the
                                      water
                                      > a few times you'll be able to judge for yourself if your other spot is a
                                      > possibility.
                                      ...
                                      > Mark Frasier

                                      Oh, I just realised you probably want to know before you buy gear so you can
                                      decide if it's worth spending the $$$. Is there anyone around who kitesurfs
                                      who could check out the spot with you?

                                      My regular spot (Pine Point) is about 2 hrs from my house and I definately
                                      consider it worth the drive. I usually get to the beach at least twice a
                                      week, sometimes more. I even drive 1.5 hrs there after work, get an hour or
                                      so of riding before dark, then drive the 2 hrs home*. It's much more fun
                                      than buggying, IMO. So maybe it's worth it even if you have to drive 1 hr
                                      each way every time??

                                      *(I do have a spot that's about 1/2 hr from work on a large lake, but it's
                                      gusty and the wind direction is only good there when it's bad at Pine Point)

                                      Mark Frasier



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