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Wind range table

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  • Hung Vu
    The wind range question have been asked numerous times in the past (on most egroups). Maybe it s time we do something about it. The wind range listed by the
    Message 1 of 10 , Feb 7, 2001
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      The "wind range" question have been asked numerous times in the past (on
      most egroups). Maybe it's time we do something about it. The wind range
      listed by the manufacturer are either inaccurate, biased or only
      applicable to 1 weight group (170 lbs)

      It would be very very helpful for the new kitesurfers if all of us list
      our weight and the wind ranges (approximation is fine) of all our kites
      we have EVER used. Once we have all the info, I (or may be Chris :-)
      can develop a table showing all of the data in a helpful manner (per
      weight group, etc.)

      So here it goes for me:

      125 lbs kitesurfer
      Kitesurfing wind range:
      Wipika Classic 3.5 20 - 30 knots
      Wipika Classic 5.0 12 - 22 knots
      Wipika Classic 8.5 8 - 17 knots
      AR5 5.5 12 - 25 knots
      AR5 11.5 8 - 18 knots
      XXL 7 - 14 knots
      XXXL 5 - 11 knots

      Kite skiing wind range:
      New Wave 4.9 9 - 18 knots
      Wave 6.6 7 - 14 knots
      XXXL 4 - 8 knots

      A table with only a few entries is not very useful so please fill in...

      Hung.
    • kiteboard@aol.com
      In a message dated 2/7/01 6:30:30 AM Pacific Standard Time, hungvu@netcom.ca writes:
      Message 2 of 10 , Feb 7, 2001
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        In a message dated 2/7/01 6:30:30 AM Pacific Standard Time, hungvu@...
        writes:

        << A table with only a few entries is not very useful so please fill in. >>

        Okay, here's me. The only kite I can tell you my true wind-range-with-skill
        is my primary kite, the AR5 7.5 I'm right around 63kg (138 pounds), & stay
        upwind with that kite on a 6' directional from 10-25 knots.

        Note the other important points I've added: board size & staying upwind (some
        include downwind-only in their wind range).

        If it really is directly proportional to rider weight, it should be possible
        to make an Excel file that automatically gives the kite model/size when you
        enter rider weight, board size/type, & wind range. That same file could be
        made to automatically give wind range, when the other variables + kite
        model/size are all entered. How cool would that be!

        Mel
      • Hung Vu
        ... So far it seems to work for me & Kenny and some of my friends. And your number more or less confirm it as to achieve the same low-end wind range as you I
        Message 3 of 10 , Feb 7, 2001
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          kiteboard@... wrote:
          > If it really is directly proportional to rider weight, it should be possible
          > to make an Excel file that automatically gives the kite model/size when you
          > enter rider weight, board size/type, & wind range. That same file could be
          > made to automatically give wind range, when the other variables + kite
          > model/size are all entered. How cool would that be!

          So far it seems to work for me & Kenny and some of my friends. And your
          number more or less confirm it as to achieve the same low-end wind range
          as you I would need 125*4.4/138 = 3.98 m2 projected surface. Since the
          AR5 5.5 is only 3.4, that why my low wind range on the 5.5 is 12 knots
          and not 10 knots (the high end wind range of my 5.5 could be higher but
          I rarely have 25+ knots wind to really know for sure)

          Of course, the "formula" is not exact as there are many other factors
          such board size, water condition, gust conditions, etc. However, it is
          a very good rule of thumb and once we got the all the statistics, the
          Excel file is an excellent next step. I am not very good at Excel so
          someone may want to volunteer ;-)

          Hung.
        • Mark Frasier
          ... From: Hung Vu To: Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 9:05 AM Subject: [ksurfschool] Wind range table ...
          Message 4 of 10 , Feb 7, 2001
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            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Hung Vu" <hungvu@...>
            To: <ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 9:05 AM
            Subject: [ksurfschool] Wind range table

            > It would be very very helpful for the new kitesurfers if all of us list
            > our weight and the wind ranges (approximation is fine) of all our kites
            > we have EVER used. Once we have all the info, I (or may be Chris :-)
            > can develop a table showing all of the data in a helpful manner (per
            > weight group, etc.)

            I can tell you what I use for C Quads, for whatever it's worth. Not much
            popular interest in them nowadays.

            I weigh about 210lbs plus wetsuit, helmet, pfd, etc. I ride a 7 ft x 18in
            Fox board. My skill level is fairly high for light wind, speed & upwind,
            medium for high wind & jumps, beginner for aerial tricks (I have landed a
            few 360's but nothing more).

            The average conditions on my normal weekend spot (Pine Point - find it on
            iwindsurf.com) are smooth and steady10-15 mph onshore winds, 1-3 ft waves
            and quite variable chop. I also ride at a lake where there are no waves and
            less chop but rarely what you'd call flat (I ride on the downwind end of the
            3 mile long lake) and the wind is usually gusty & turbulent there and there
            is no wind meter. I use this spot if the wind is NW (offshore at Pine
            Point).

            The windspeeds are based on a windmeter mounted on a pole on a house about
            100 ft from the beach with a clear exposure to the normal wind direction.
            The meter is about 30 feet up, which is great for judging how much wind the
            kite is getting (compared to a handheld meter on the beach).

            I usually pick a kite based on what the wind feels like on the beach and
            only check the meter record after I get home.

            Kitesurfing:

            10.5 C Quad, 125 ft lines - downwinders in about 6 mph, not much fun but
            something to do if the wind is supposed to pick up and the beach is too
            crowded for buggying :). Upwind & nice 5' jumps starting at 10 mph if the
            water is flat, around 11 in waves or chop. Favorite condition is 11-12 mph
            in flat water. Good riding in 13-14 in chop. Difficult to keep things under
            control at a sustained 17 even in rough water. I can get nice low & slow
            jumps with this one anytime I can get good speed up. I'm pretty confident
            about the accuracy of these numbers since this is the kite I use the most.

            8.5 CQ, 125 ft lines - upwind and good speed at 11 mph if the water is flat,
            jumps around 12 in flat water, have been out in rough water (close waves &
            chop) at 14 and still not been able to easily get past the shore break (not
            much room at high tide w/onshore winds at my spot). I have had good days w/
            this one in 17 mph and fairly rough water but on flat water things get
            pretty hairy with that much wind. I don't use this one much since I got the
            10.5.

            6.3 CQ, 100 ft lines - haven't KS'ed much w/this one lately, but I have had
            good days in 18 mph in avg water conditions. I'd like to get it tuned up,
            put a stiffer spar in and start using it more now that I have the 10.5. It
            would be a good size to drop to. Should start to be somewhat fun around 15
            and top out at maybe 22.

            4.2 CQ, 80 ft lines - Upwind at about 14-15 mph on good water with some
            finesse, excellent speed and good jumps at 18-20 in any water conditions.
            Never been really overpowered with this one so I don't know what the upper
            limit is but I have had it out in 23 or so with good results. I guess about
            25 or 27 would be very difficult. Second most used kite. There is a ~2 mph
            gap between the top end of the 10.5 and the bottom of the "fun zone" of this
            kite. This was a good kite to drop down when I was flying the 8.5 all the
            time - this starts getting fun just as the 8.5 is getting beyond the point
            of usability.

            3.2 CQ, 100 ft lines - ok in 20 if you can get going but the water is
            usually too rough at that speed to make it easy. 25 would probably be
            better. Never taken it to its limits - at least 30, maybe 35. Haven't had a
            chance to use this one since I started jumping. I go down to the 2.2 if the
            4.2 is too much (for reasons I won't get into).

            2.2 CQ, 75 ft lines - used this one successfully 3-4 times in 25-35 mph wind
            on frothing water. I could lock the kite in once I got going in about 30 mph
            wind. Very nice in the 35 mph gusts. The upper limit might be 40 if you can
            still control it in that much wind.

            Water conditions definately make a huge difference - I can't give a "lowest
            windspeed" without a "flat water" disclaimer :) Same but to a lesser degree
            for top wind (rough=higher top wind).


            On 4"+ snow, guessing at windspeed since there's no meter at our spots:

            10.5 - upwind about 3mph but only at a crawl and not much fun. Nice for
            touring in 6-8. Jumps & good speed around 10. Tops out around 17 I guess but
            never taken it that high to my knowledge :)

            8.5 - upwind about 5, tour in 7 or so, never jumped on snow but I'd guess
            12, tops around 18?

            6.3 - nice in 10+, tops maybe 20

            4.2 - nice in 14+, great in 16-18. I have come close to topping it out on
            snow in I guess 22 or so?

            3.2 - nice in 16+, no guess at top speed.

            2.2 - nice in 18+, better in 25, I have topped it out only on thin, packed
            snow.


            On hard packed snow I haven't flown anything bigger then the 6.3, which was
            good up to about 15. 3.2 works in 10 and tops out around 20?? 2.2 can't stay
            upwind going any usable speed at about 25. A skytiger hi 30 (about 2.5 sq m
            projected?) is usable in about 30. Been a year or two since we had hard
            snow, my numbers might go up now that I've kitesurfed more.

            On solid, smooth ice I've used 4.2 successfully in 3-14, 3.2 in 4-17, 2.2 in
            6-22 (guessing in all cases). Sideslip is the limiting factor to top
            windspeed so cut-off skis or skates help (those numbers are for cut-offs).
            You can move with any kite that flies, but things are not as fun/fast if the
            kite's too small.

            I won't get into buggying windspeeds - probably no one's going to read this
            far down anyways :)

            Mark Frasier
          • rmlsd@aol.com
            Someone please tell me how to get unsubscribed to this group.
            Message 5 of 10 , Feb 8, 2001
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              Someone please tell me how to get unsubscribed to this group.
            • Hung Vu
              ... OK, I finally find enough time to read this far down :) There were a couple times earlier in the season, I used my wife 145 cm carving skis on somewhat
              Message 6 of 10 , Feb 8, 2001
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                Mark Frasier wrote:
                > On solid, smooth ice I've used 4.2 successfully in 3-14, 3.2 in 4-17, 2.2 in
                > 6-22 (guessing in all cases). Sideslip is the limiting factor to top
                > windspeed so cut-off skis or skates help (those numbers are for cut-offs).
                > You can move with any kite that flies, but things are not as fun/fast if the
                > kite's too small.
                >
                > I won't get into buggying windspeeds - probably no one's going to read this
                > far down anyways :)

                OK, I finally find enough time to read this far down :) There were a
                couple times earlier in the season, I used my wife 145 cm carving skis
                on somewhat bare ice (or maximum 1" of snow occasionally) and they work
                great. I guess the side cut may have help in preventing the side slip.
                Have you ever tried those instead of cutting a pair of regular skis?

                Hung.
              • Mark Frasier
                No I haven t. I d like to give it a go sometime. My friend got some skiboards that have a lot of sidecut but are pretty stiff. They re shorter than your
                Message 7 of 10 , Feb 8, 2001
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                  No I haven't. I'd like to give it a go sometime. My friend got some
                  "skiboards" that have a lot of sidecut but are pretty stiff. They're shorter
                  than your wife's but maybe the same idea? They were practically unusable in
                  5 inches of unpacked snow, or at least it looked that way when he was trying
                  them. He ended up totally blowing out his skiboot (!) and lent them to a
                  person I ride with more often, so I'm sure I'll get a chance to try them if
                  we get ice again this year.

                  When you were using those, was there contact along the whole edge or just at
                  two points (tip & tail)?

                  I have used long, sharp skis on the ice, but side slip is a lot worse than
                  w/ the cut offs.

                  The cut offs are noticably faster than hockey skates. I really want to try
                  kiteskating with those touring skates I've mentioned here before.
                  (http://www.nordicskater.com)

                  Mark Frasier

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Hung Vu" <hungvu@...>
                  To: <ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 6:10 PM
                  Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Wind range table


                  > Mark Frasier wrote:
                  > > On solid, smooth ice I've used 4.2 successfully in 3-14, 3.2 in 4-17,
                  2.2 in
                  > > 6-22 (guessing in all cases). Sideslip is the limiting factor to top
                  > > windspeed so cut-off skis or skates help (those numbers are for
                  cut-offs).
                  > > You can move with any kite that flies, but things are not as fun/fast if
                  the
                  > > kite's too small.
                  > >
                  > > I won't get into buggying windspeeds - probably no one's going to read
                  this
                  > > far down anyways :)
                  >
                  > OK, I finally find enough time to read this far down :) There were a
                  > couple times earlier in the season, I used my wife 145 cm carving skis
                  > on somewhat bare ice (or maximum 1" of snow occasionally) and they work
                  > great. I guess the side cut may have help in preventing the side slip.
                  > Have you ever tried those instead of cutting a pair of regular skis?
                  >
                  > Hung.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Hung Vu
                  ... I am not sure; I think just the tips due to the fact that you have more leverage due the the side cut and the width of the tips. ... The problem I guess
                  Message 8 of 10 , Feb 8, 2001
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                    Mark Frasier wrote:
                    > No I haven't. I'd like to give it a go sometime. My friend got some
                    > "skiboards" that have a lot of sidecut but are pretty stiff. They're shorter
                    > than your wife's but maybe the same idea? They were practically unusable in
                    > 5 inches of unpacked snow, or at least it looked that way when he was trying
                    > them. He ended up totally blowing out his skiboot (!) and lent them to a
                    > person I ride with more often, so I'm sure I'll get a chance to try them if
                    > we get ice again this year.
                    >
                    > When you were using those, was there contact along the whole edge or just at
                    > two points (tip & tail)?

                    I am not sure; I think just the tips due to the fact that you have more
                    "leverage" due the the side cut and the width of the tips.

                    > I have used long, sharp skis on the ice, but side slip is a lot worse than
                    > w/ the cut offs.

                    The problem I guess is the "focus" of force.

                    > The cut offs are noticably faster than hockey skates. I really want to try
                    > kiteskating with those touring skates I've mentioned here before.
                    > (http://www.nordicskater.com)

                    There could be "psychological" reasons as you normally don't want to go
                    too fast on regular skates ;-)

                    Hung.
                  • Rhys Gilson
                    Please can you unsubscribe me. rhys.gilson@pretolite.com
                    Message 9 of 10 , Feb 9, 2001
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                      Please can you unsubscribe me.
                      rhys.gilson@...

                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: Hung Vu [SMTP:hungvu@...]
                      > Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 3:03 AM
                      > To: ksurfschool@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: Re: [ksurfschool] Wind range table
                      >
                      > Mark Frasier wrote:
                      > > No I haven't. I'd like to give it a go sometime. My friend got some
                      > > "skiboards" that have a lot of sidecut but are pretty stiff. They're
                      > shorter
                      > > than your wife's but maybe the same idea? They were practically unusable
                      > in
                      > > 5 inches of unpacked snow, or at least it looked that way when he was
                      > trying
                      > > them. He ended up totally blowing out his skiboot (!) and lent them to a
                      > > person I ride with more often, so I'm sure I'll get a chance to try them
                      > if
                      > > we get ice again this year.
                      > >
                      > > When you were using those, was there contact along the whole edge or
                      > just at
                      > > two points (tip & tail)?
                      >
                      > I am not sure; I think just the tips due to the fact that you have more
                      > "leverage" due the the side cut and the width of the tips.
                      >
                      > > I have used long, sharp skis on the ice, but side slip is a lot worse
                      > than
                      > > w/ the cut offs.
                      >
                      > The problem I guess is the "focus" of force.
                      >
                      > > The cut offs are noticably faster than hockey skates. I really want to
                      > try
                      > > kiteskating with those touring skates I've mentioned here before.
                      > > (http://www.nordicskater.com)
                      >
                      > There could be "psychological" reasons as you normally don't want to go
                      > too fast on regular skates ;-)
                      >
                      > Hung.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Mark Frasier
                      ... Maybe for the first hour or two - they certainly felt a little squirley to start, but eventually I got pretty comfortable and now I definately push speed
                      Message 10 of 10 , Feb 9, 2001
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                        > There could be "psychological" reasons as you normally don't want to go
                        > too fast on regular skates ;-)
                        >
                        > Hung.

                        Maybe for the first hour or two - they certainly felt a little squirley to
                        start, but eventually I got pretty comfortable and now I definately push
                        speed to the max on skates (at least in light wind). The best technique
                        seems to be to keep one foot in front of the other to give yourself some
                        "pitch stability". But even forgetting about that, just looking at the
                        tracks it's pretty obvious. The skates leave a small amount of ice shavings
                        on the leeward side of tracks when ever they're layed over sideways. The
                        cutoffs just leave a very fine line with no "wake" :) I've tried both many
                        times and I'm pretty sure about this. The touring skates seem to be the best
                        of both worlds, except they don't have the ability to go over snow drifts.

                        Mark Frasier
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