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Re: [korgpolyex] Re: NJM2069 Datasheet or Pinouts?

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  • trip@bluesummers.net
    Yeah, well, if said pins actually controlled the volume for the first and second oscillators, each voice would be sharing the same VCA. I honestly don t see
    Message 1 of 12 , Apr 30, 2002
      Yeah, well, if said pins actually controlled the volume for the first and
      second oscillators, each voice would be sharing the same VCA. I honestly
      don't see how that would work very well... one filter, after the VCA's, one
      per oscillator, is how I always thought the Poly was laid out. I could be
      wrong, however.

      I would expect these two pins to control the master Level for the oscillators,
      that is, parameters 17 and 27. But I could be wrong.
    • plutoniq9
      ... tempted ... Well, maybe if the info for the NJM2069 is included in the full service manual, I ve just been workin off the schematics in the files section.
      Message 2 of 12 , May 1, 2002
        --- In korgpolyex@y..., trip@b... wrote:
        >
        > I've been looking for this information myself for a while now. I'm
        tempted
        > say it simply does not exist at this point in time.
        >
        > Only one way to find out: are you feeling lucky?


        Well, maybe if the info for the NJM2069 is included in the full
        service manual, I've just been workin' off the schematics in the
        files section.

        I'm tempted to think that the pins labled "Level 1 & Level 2" (Pins 2
        & 3) are the Log CV's for Osc1 & Osc2 VCA's respectivley.

        I imagine "Pin9" (VCA LIN), is the Linear CV for the Noise Source,
        maybe the Level + EG3 CV's are summed together into this Pin.

        Pin 6 (VCA Log),is tied to ground. This at least, is the Log CV for
        either the OSc1/Osc2 or Noise. So, thats one down at least.

        Anyways,

        Any thoughts

        P9
      • >>>marjan<<<
        Here s the pinout: KORG NJM2069 Pin# Function 1 Audio In GND (GND) 2 Mixer Signal 1 Level CV In 3 Mixer Signal 2 Level CV In 4 VCF Resonance CV In 5 VCF
        Message 3 of 12 , May 1, 2002
          Here's the pinout:

          KORG NJM2069

          Pin# Function

          1 Audio In GND (GND)
          2 Mixer Signal 1 Level CV In
          3 Mixer Signal 2 Level CV In
          4 VCF Resonance CV In
          5 VCF 12dB/oct Audio Out
          6 VCF 24dB/oct Audio Out
          7 VCA Signal In
          8 VCA Level CV Log In
          9 VCA Level CV Lin In
          10 VCA Signal Out
          11 Vss (GND)
          12 -Vee
          13 VCF Cutoff CV Lin In
          14 VCF Cutoff CV Log In
          15 VCF cap C4
          16 VCF cap C3
          17 VCF cap C2
          18 VCF cap C1
          19 VCF Ext Audio In
          20 Mixer Signal 2 In
          21 Mixer Signal 1 In
          22 +Vcc


          Chip has separate
          *VCA with in,out and lin&log CV ins,
          *VC Mixer with two audio inputs, two CV ins for each input level
          control, it's output is
          hardwired to vcf audio in (no ext pin here), separate gnd for input
          signal
          *VCF with separate ext audio input (in addition to hardwired input from
          vc mixer),
          output, lin&log cv ins, four pins for integrating capacitors, vc
          resonance with
          pin for res cv

          This is almost half of synt-chip type just like old CEM chips, but
          sounds much
          fatter IMHO. Short look at pins 5/6 reveals easy mod for poly800 to get
          2/4 pole
          filter... Poly800 misuses it's vca for adding 3rd vc audio channel to
          the mix
          as 'real' vca control is performed digitally inside osc chip driven by
          soft
          envelopes.




          ---



          marjan


          me : Marjan Urekar
          e-mail: urekar.m@...
          s-diy : http://surf.to/marjansystems
          music : http://go.to/forcemajeure
        • >>>marjan<<<
          ... You are wrong. There s no analog VCA for the oscillators. Software envelopes control the oscillator chips internally, so in a way vca for each osc is
          Message 4 of 12 , May 5, 2002
            > Yeah, well, if said pins actually controlled the volume for the first and
            > second oscillators, each voice would be sharing the same VCA. I honestly
            > don't see how that would work very well... one filter, after the VCA's, one
            > per oscillator, is how I always thought the Poly was laid out. I could be
            > wrong, however.
            >

            You are wrong. There's no analog VCA for the oscillators. Software
            envelopes
            control the oscillator chips internally, so in a way vca for each osc is
            _before_ the filter chip, where two sources are just mixed in VC mixer
            and
            passed to the vcf. Onboard VCA that wasn't needed for usual task was
            misused
            to give sorta 3rd VC mixer input by adding it's out to the ext audio
            in in the vcf.

            --



            marjan


            me : Marjan Urekar
            e-mail: urekar.m@...
            s-diy : http://surf.to/marjansystems
            music : http://go.to/forcemajeure
          • phdinfunk
            ... Could you explain this futher, I don t understand at all. Is the VCA used for the noise generator or what? Jon
            Message 5 of 12 , May 7, 2002
              > Onboard VCA that wasn't needed for usual task was
              > misused
              > to give sorta 3rd VC mixer input by adding it's out to the ext audio
              > in in the vcf.

              Could you explain this futher, I don't understand at all. Is the VCA
              used for the noise generator or what?

              Jon
            • plutoniq9
              I m slightly confused as well. The dedicated VCA (own input and output & cv control) on the NJM2069 is used for the white noise only. I assume that the EG3
              Message 6 of 12 , May 7, 2002
                I'm slightly confused as well. The dedicated VCA (own input and
                output & cv control) on the NJM2069 is used for the white noise
                only. I assume that the EG3 (Depth determined by White Noise
                mixer level) is inputed into this VCA's CV input. The output of this
                VCA (Pin 10) then is externally routed into the NJM2069's VCF
                audio input (Pin 19).

                Now what i am confused about is the terminolgy of a voltage
                controlled mixer VS. a VCA. Both control the Amplitude of an
                audio signal from a CV source, right? So aren't the VC mixers on
                the NJM2069 just VCA's who's outputs are internally routed into
                the VCF? Assuming that these are Log CV inputs (Pin 2&3),
                couldn't you amplitude mod Osc1 & 2 by rerouting the LOG CV
                output of the onboard LFO into these Pins ?(buffered LFO CV
                output comes from Pin 14 of "IC7").

                Better yet, would be to mount patch points on the Poly 800 as CV
                inputs/outputs, another potential CV input would be for the
                resonance (which is Voltage Controlled), imagine the pleasure
                of modulating the resonance from EG3 or the onboard LFO or
                external CV generators....yummy!

                P9 (Who'd get a kick out of a patchable Poly 800)

                --- In korgpolyex@y..., "phdinfunk" <phdinfunk@h...> wrote:
                > > Onboard VCA that wasn't needed for usual task was
                > > misused
                > > to give sorta 3rd VC mixer input by adding it's out to the ext
                audio
                > > in in the vcf.
                >
                > Could you explain this futher, I don't understand at all. Is the
                VCA
                > used for the noise generator or what?
                >
                > Jon
              • >>>marjan<<<
                ... That s right. You can cut noise before VCA input and pump in any external audio (thru cap) to process it thru VCF. ... Yep. ... They could be. Most of the
                Message 7 of 12 , May 8, 2002
                  plutoniq9 wrote:
                  >
                  > I'm slightly confused as well. The dedicated VCA (own input and
                  > output & cv control) on the NJM2069 is used for the white noise
                  > only. I assume that the EG3 (Depth determined by White Noise
                  > mixer level) is inputed into this VCA's CV input. The output of this
                  > VCA (Pin 10) then is externally routed into the NJM2069's VCF
                  > audio input (Pin 19).
                  >

                  That's right.
                  You can cut noise before VCA input and pump in any external
                  audio (thru cap) to process it thru VCF.


                  > Now what i am confused about is the terminolgy of a voltage
                  > controlled mixer VS. a VCA. Both control the Amplitude of an
                  > audio signal from a CV source, right?

                  Yep.

                  > So aren't the VC mixers on
                  > the NJM2069 just VCA's who's outputs are internally routed into
                  > the VCF?

                  They could be. Most of the VC Mixers are several VCAs mixed
                  into single point (opamp).
                  Only difference could be how good they are trimmed.
                  Final VCA should have minimal signal/CV feedthru - mixer
                  shouold also but it could be somewhat lower specd.
                  What may be going inside that they made 3 identical vcas inside
                  the chip, killed lin input on two of them and summed them,
                  leaving third free with all the i/o connections.

                  > Assuming that these are Log CV inputs (Pin 2&3),
                  > couldn't you amplitude mod Osc1 & 2 by rerouting the LOG CV
                  > output of the onboard LFO into these Pins ?

                  You sure can, but mind the polarity of the lfo signal.
                  CV input might dislike negative voltages, but maybe it
                  has internal protection diodes, maybe not. Check
                  lfo's DC component first.
                  Also, chorus lfo could be wired to vcf cutoff and res
                  inputs for more maynham. You can try to route it
                  to ref. HF oscillator, but that's more dangerous.
                  You should know what you're doing in there if you
                  wish to keep oscillators singing...

                  >(buffered LFO CV
                  > output comes from Pin 14 of "IC7").
                  >

                  That's unbuffered square out. But you don't need
                  buffer here. Pin 8 is unbuffered triangle. Pin 7
                  is buffered (and level shifted) triangle.
                  Add frequency control to lfo and it'll rock...

                  > Better yet, would be to mount patch points on the Poly 800 as CV
                  > inputs/outputs, another potential CV input would be for the
                  > resonance (which is Voltage Controlled), imagine the pleasure
                  > of modulating the resonance from EG3 or the onboard LFO or
                  > external CV generators....yummy!
                  >

                  That's easy, but watch the polarities.

                  --



                  marjan


                  me : Marjan Urekar
                  e-mail: urekar.m@...
                  s-diy : http://surf.to/marjansystems
                  music : http://go.to/forcemajeure
                • >>>marjan<<<
                  ... Yes. VC Mixer is nothing more than two VCAs with their outputs summed into an opamp. I suppose they have only log CV inpits (called Level CV here). Main
                  Message 8 of 12 , May 8, 2002
                    phdinfunk wrote:
                    >
                    > > Onboard VCA that wasn't needed for usual task was
                    > > misused
                    > > to give sorta 3rd VC mixer input by adding it's out to the ext audio
                    > > in in the vcf.
                    >
                    > Could you explain this futher, I don't understand at all. Is the VCA
                    > used for the noise generator or what?

                    Yes. VC Mixer is nothing more than two VCAs with their outputs
                    summed into an opamp. I suppose they have only log CV inpits
                    (called Level CV here). Main VCA, which was intended to be used
                    as normal final VCA (like in a classic monosynth), wasn't needed
                    so it was fed with white noise and that to the second audio
                    input of vcf (first is fed with vc mixer's output).

                    Real polysynth would need 8 such chips, two inputs for each osc
                    of a voice, to vcf and to vca, and so 8 times for each voice.
                    Alas, poly800 was unfortunate mix of designs so it ended with
                    string machine configuration - all poly voices summed and then
                    routed to the single VCF.

                    --



                    marjan


                    me : Marjan Urekar
                    e-mail: urekar.m@...
                    s-diy : http://surf.to/marjansystems
                    music : http://go.to/forcemajeure
                  • matijnboshoven
                    So to get external audio in, you put the signal into pin 2 or 3 and ground at pin 1? And to change from 24dB to 12dB you put a switch on pin 5 and 6?
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jan 14, 2008
                      So to get external audio in, you put the signal into pin 2 or 3 and
                      ground at pin 1?

                      And to change from 24dB to 12dB you put a switch on pin 5 and 6?


                      --- In korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com, ">>>marjan<<<" <urekar.m@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > Here's the pinout:
                      >
                      > KORG NJM2069
                      >
                      > Pin# Function
                      >
                      > 1 Audio In GND (GND)
                      > 2 Mixer Signal 1 Level CV In
                      > 3 Mixer Signal 2 Level CV In
                      > 4 VCF Resonance CV In
                      > 5 VCF 12dB/oct Audio Out
                      > 6 VCF 24dB/oct Audio Out
                      > 7 VCA Signal In
                      > 8 VCA Level CV Log In
                      > 9 VCA Level CV Lin In
                      > 10 VCA Signal Out
                      > 11 Vss (GND)
                      > 12 -Vee
                      > 13 VCF Cutoff CV Lin In
                      > 14 VCF Cutoff CV Log In
                      > 15 VCF cap C4
                      > 16 VCF cap C3
                      > 17 VCF cap C2
                      > 18 VCF cap C1
                      > 19 VCF Ext Audio In
                      > 20 Mixer Signal 2 In
                      > 21 Mixer Signal 1 In
                      > 22 +Vcc
                      >
                      >
                      > Chip has separate
                      > *VCA with in,out and lin&log CV ins,
                      > *VC Mixer with two audio inputs, two CV ins for each input level
                      > control, it's output is
                      > hardwired to vcf audio in (no ext pin here), separate gnd for input
                      > signal
                      > *VCF with separate ext audio input (in addition to hardwired input from
                      > vc mixer),
                      > output, lin&log cv ins, four pins for integrating capacitors, vc
                      > resonance with
                      > pin for res cv
                      >
                      > This is almost half of synt-chip type just like old CEM chips, but
                      > sounds much
                      > fatter IMHO. Short look at pins 5/6 reveals easy mod for poly800 to get
                      > 2/4 pole
                      > filter... Poly800 misuses it's vca for adding 3rd vc audio channel to
                      > the mix
                      > as 'real' vca control is performed digitally inside osc chip driven by
                      > soft
                      > envelopes.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ---
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > marjan
                      >
                      >
                      > me : Marjan Urekar
                      > e-mail: urekar.m@...
                      > s-diy : http://surf.to/marjansystems
                      > music : http://go.to/forcemajeure
                      >
                    • radek_tymecki
                      For audio in mod You should use C24 capacitor
                      Message 10 of 12 , Jan 14, 2008
                        For audio in mod You should use C24 capacitor
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