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White noise when played, even with all OSC off and filter closed

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  • Mark Burow
    hi folks, I seem to have some problem with my Mono/Poly... I discovered last week that, when I hit any key, there is a white noise, even with all OSCs turned
    Message 1 of 14 , Nov 5, 2011
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      hi folks,

      I seem to have some problem with my Mono/Poly... I discovered last week that, when I hit any key, there is a white noise, even with all OSCs turned off... when the filter is all closed its still there, and also the VCA Envelope does affect the noise - when I turn the release up the noise sustains; So it seems like there is sth. wrong with the VCA or the VCF, no?

      Do you have any hint where to look at first? is this probably a problem with the filter ICs, or some capacitor in the VCA section??
      I will record the noise today to demonstrate, if this would help?

      best,
      mark
    • Florian Anwander
      Hi Mark ... This will help for sure. Florian
      Message 2 of 14 , Nov 6, 2011
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        Hi Mark

        > I will record the noise today to demonstrate, if this would help?
        This will help for sure.

        Florian
      • Mark Burow
        hey florian, sure, I will record the noise asap. but do you have already any idea where this could come from? thx for your help, mark
        Message 3 of 14 , Nov 6, 2011
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          hey florian,

          sure, I will record the noise asap.
          but do you have already any idea where this could come from?

          thx for your help,
          mark



          Am 06.11.2011 um 21:07 schrieb Florian Anwander:

          > Hi Mark
          >
          >> I will record the noise today to demonstrate, if this would help?
          > This will help for sure.
          >
          > Florian
        • Alan Dicker
          A recording would help to understand if its just the normal low level noise you find in the circuit or if it is indeed something of concern. Alan
          Message 4 of 14 , Nov 7, 2011
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            A recording would help to understand if its just the normal low level noise you find in the circuit or if it is indeed something of concern.
            Alan


            From: Mark Burow <burow@...>
            To: Florian Anwander <fanwander@...>
            Cc: korg_mono-poly@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sunday, 6 November 2011, 21:20
            Subject: Re: [korg_mono-poly] White noise when played, even with all OSC off and filter closed

             
            hey florian,

            sure, I will record the noise asap.
            but do you have already any idea where this could come from?

            thx for your help,
            mark

            Am 06.11.2011 um 21:07 schrieb Florian Anwander:

            > Hi Mark
            >
            >> I will record the noise today to demonstrate, if this would help?
            > This will help for sure.
            >
            > Florian



          • Mark Burow
            Hi guys, I made a recording of the problem-M/P tonite: I tried to capture the noise by doing the following: first, all OSC off, and filter Cutoff & resonance
            Message 5 of 14 , Nov 8, 2011
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              Hi guys,

              I made a recording of the problem-M/P tonite:
              I tried to capture the noise by doing the following:

              first, all OSC off, and filter Cutoff & resonance set to 0; VCF Env 0, VCA attack 0, dec./sust. mid, short release; No additional noise or any fx;
              playing a pattern C3 A2 C3 C3 A2 C3
              then I first turn up the 16' sinewave, after that the 8', the 4' and the 2', and then the cutoff a little bit, as well as the VCA release...

              hope you can hear the noise / distortion, sounds really strange to me - none of my other synths have anything like this, and as far as I remember the M/P didnt have that earlier (didnt use it for quite a while...)
              earlier I used the M/P with 1 sinewave for heavy baass lines, dry stuff, without any noise at all... now I cant get any nice sound of it anymore without that noise... :(

              any idea off what this could possibly be?
              how can I track down the fault?

              thanks & regards
              mark




              http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1951882/00.%20MonoPoly_recorded.mp3


              Am 07.11.2011 um 11:45 schrieb Alan Dicker:

              >
              > A recording would help to understand if its just the normal low level noise you find in the circuit or if it is indeed something of concern.
              > Alan
              >
              > From: Mark Burow <burow@...>
              > To: Florian Anwander <fanwander@...>
              > Cc: korg_mono-poly@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Sunday, 6 November 2011, 21:20
              > Subject: Re: [korg_mono-poly] White noise when played, even with all OSC off and filter closed
              >
              >
              > hey florian,
              >
              > sure, I will record the noise asap.
              > but do you have already any idea where this could come from?
              >
              > thx for your help,
              > mark
              >
              > Am 06.11.2011 um 21:07 schrieb Florian Anwander:
              >
              >> Hi Mark
              >>
              >>> I will record the noise today to demonstrate, if this would help?
              >> This will help for sure.
              >>
              >> Florian
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Florian Anwander
              Hello Mark, I did not compare it to my M/P now, but I tend to say: this is normal noise caused by the circuitry (typically from the resistors). Could it be,
              Message 6 of 14 , Nov 9, 2011
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                Hello Mark,

                I did not compare it to my M/P now, but I tend to say: this is normal
                noise caused by the circuitry (typically from the resistors). Could it
                be, that you made some other change (better speakers, different audio
                connection) which makes you hear things now, you did not hear before?

                Florian

                Mark Burow wrote:
                > http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1951882/00.%20MonoPoly_recorded.mp3
              • Mark Burow
                Hi Florian, well, no, I didnt really change anything important. same speakers, same interface, same room; I do remember that I created some really fat bass
                Message 7 of 14 , Nov 9, 2011
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                  Hi Florian,

                  well, no, I didnt really change anything important. same speakers, same interface, same room;
                  I do remember that I created some really fat bass lines with the M/P earlier, without any noise/high frequency stuff alongside... maybe you're right, and this is just normal noise; but if you (and anybody else here who has the time) could please just check shortly if you also have this audible noise when all OSCs are turned to 0 and filter is fully closed; It would make me sleep better knowing that my M/P is still full functional, and not some sort of whistling box :(

                  thanks for your help,
                  mark 

                  2011/11/9 Florian Anwander <fanwander@...>
                  Hello Mark,

                  I did not compare it to my M/P now, but I tend to say: this is normal
                  noise caused by the circuitry (typically from the resistors). Could it
                  be, that you made some other change (better speakers, different audio
                  connection) which makes you hear things now, you did not hear before?

                  Florian

                  Mark Burow wrote:
                  > http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1951882/00.%20MonoPoly_recorded.mp3


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                • Alan Dicker
                  I have the same noise but yours does sound much louder in level.  Maybe a full recalibration would help starting from the power supply. I assume the sine wave
                  Message 8 of 14 , Nov 9, 2011
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                    I have the same noise but yours does sound much louder in level.  Maybe a full recalibration would help starting from the power supply.
                    I assume the sine wave you were producing with the filter in self resonance and that there was no compressor on the recording right?


                    From: Mark Burow <burow@...>
                    To: korg_mono-poly@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Wednesday, 9 November 2011, 9:47
                    Subject: Re: [korg_mono-poly] White noise when played, even with all OSC off and filter closed

                     
                    Hi Florian,

                    well, no, I didnt really change anything important. same speakers, same interface, same room;
                    I do remember that I created some really fat bass lines with the M/P earlier, without any noise/high frequency stuff alongside... maybe you're right, and this is just normal noise; but if you (and anybody else here who has the time) could please just check shortly if you also have this audible noise when all OSCs are turned to 0 and filter is fully closed; It would make me sleep better knowing that my M/P is still full functional, and not some sort of whistling box :(

                    thanks for your help,
                    mark 

                    2011/11/9 Florian Anwander <fanwander@...>
                    Hello Mark,

                    I did not compare it to my M/P now, but I tend to say: this is normal
                    noise caused by the circuitry (typically from the resistors). Could it
                    be, that you made some other change (better speakers, different audio
                    connection) which makes you hear things now, you did not hear before?

                    Florian

                    Mark Burow wrote:
                    > http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1951882/00.%20MonoPoly_recorded.mp3


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                  • Mark Burow
                    No, no compressor or anything...I tried different inputs on my interface (motu 828mk3), tried it on my recording desk BCII, always the same... what exactly do
                    Message 9 of 14 , Nov 9, 2011
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                      No, no compressor or anything...I tried different inputs on my interface (motu 828mk3), tried it on my recording desk BCII, always the same...

                      what exactly do you mean with recalibration? do I have to trim/tune the voices, or is there some more options to do besides that?



                      2011/11/9 Alan Dicker <alanmdicker@...>
                       

                      I have the same noise but yours does sound much louder in level.  Maybe a full recalibration would help starting from the power supply.
                      I assume the sine wave you were producing with the filter in self resonance and that there was no compressor on the recording right?


                      From: Mark Burow <burow@...>
                      To: korg_mono-poly@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Wednesday, 9 November 2011, 9:47

                      Subject: Re: [korg_mono-poly] White noise when played, even with all OSC off and filter closed

                       
                      Hi Florian,

                      well, no, I didnt really change anything important. same speakers, same interface, same room;
                      I do remember that I created some really fat bass lines with the M/P earlier, without any noise/high frequency stuff alongside... maybe you're right, and this is just normal noise; but if you (and anybody else here who has the time) could please just check shortly if you also have this audible noise when all OSCs are turned to 0 and filter is fully closed; It would make me sleep better knowing that my M/P is still full functional, and not some sort of whistling box :(

                      thanks for your help,
                      mark 

                      2011/11/9 Florian Anwander <fanwander@...>
                      Hello Mark,

                      I did not compare it to my M/P now, but I tend to say: this is normal
                      noise caused by the circuitry (typically from the resistors). Could it
                      be, that you made some other change (better speakers, different audio
                      connection) which makes you hear things now, you did not hear before?

                      Florian

                      Mark Burow wrote:
                      > http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1951882/00.%20MonoPoly_recorded.mp3


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                    • Jeppe Madsen
                      Hey Mark. Mine sounds almost the same at the triangle wave setting. Maybe with a little less bg noise, but almost the same. It seems like the triangle wave
                      Message 10 of 14 , Nov 9, 2011
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                        Hey Mark. Mine sounds almost the same at the triangle wave setting. Maybe with a little less bg noise, but almost the same. It seems like the triangle wave output is quite low, and as a result there's a lot of "circuitry noise" on a solo triangle wave setting.
                        If you find a way to remove the noise please let me know. 

                        Maybe you could record the bass line you wold like without any osc's turned up, and then re-record it again with the sound you want and then phase invert the first recording. Maybe you could cancel out some of the noise. I don't know if it would work, or if it's the solution you are looking for. 

                        Good Luck.
                        Jeppe
                      • Florian Anwander
                        Hello Mark ... I don t think that any recalibration is required. regarding sound examples: I won t be able to do recordings in the same way like you did until
                        Message 11 of 14 , Nov 9, 2011
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                          Hello Mark

                          Am 09.11.2011 11:21, schrieb Mark Burow:
                          > what exactly do you mean with recalibration? do I have to trim/tune the
                          > voices, or is there some more options to do besides that?

                          I don't think that any recalibration is required.

                          regarding sound examples:
                          I won't be able to do recordings in the same way like you did until next
                          week. But I will do.

                          Florian
                        • mokkinger
                          Hi Jeppe, thanks for the info, really seems like this is normal and nothing is broken; still dont get it how I did these thick fat basslines with one sinewave,
                          Message 12 of 14 , Nov 9, 2011
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                            Hi Jeppe,

                            thanks for the info, really seems like this is normal and nothing is broken;

                            still dont get it how I did these thick fat basslines with one sinewave, filter almost completely closed... maybe I should do some experiments with a LP filter...

                            thanks for trying!
                            mark



                            --- In korg_mono-poly@yahoogroups.com, Jeppe Madsen <joppemadsen@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Hey Mark. Mine sounds almost the same at the triangle wave setting. Maybe
                            > with a little less bg noise, but almost the same. It seems like the
                            > triangle wave output is quite low, and as a result there's a lot of
                            > "circuitry noise" on a solo triangle wave setting.
                            > If you find a way to remove the noise please let me know.
                            >
                            > Maybe you could record the bass line you wold like without any osc's turned
                            > up, and then re-record it again with the sound you want and then phase
                            > invert the first recording. Maybe you could cancel out some of the noise. I
                            > don't know if it would work, or if it's the solution you are looking for.
                            >
                            > Good Luck.
                            > Jeppe
                            >
                          • mokkinger
                            okay, sounds good... whenever you have the time, I ll be glad to hear any examples; and thanks for your help! mark
                            Message 13 of 14 , Nov 9, 2011
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                              okay, sounds good... whenever you have the time, I'll be glad to hear any examples;

                              and thanks for your help!
                              mark


                              --- In korg_mono-poly@yahoogroups.com, Florian Anwander <fanwander@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Hello Mark
                              >
                              > Am 09.11.2011 11:21, schrieb Mark Burow:
                              > > what exactly do you mean with recalibration? do I have to trim/tune the
                              > > voices, or is there some more options to do besides that?
                              >
                              > I don't think that any recalibration is required.
                              >
                              > regarding sound examples:
                              > I won't be able to do recordings in the same way like you did until next
                              > week. But I will do.
                              >
                              > Florian
                              >
                            • Alan Dicker
                              I would take Florain word for it on these matters he knows the Monopoly very well but a full recalibration would start from the power supply and is detailed in
                              Message 14 of 14 , Nov 9, 2011
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                                I would take Florain word for it on these matters he knows the Monopoly very well but a full recalibration would start from the power supply and is detailed in the service manual.  You do need volt meter and oscilloscope to do it.
                                Re- the phase inversion idea if there is any part of the back ground noise that is not random you may have some chance of removing it that way if you can see a pattern in the wave form and line it up perfectly also but any true noise aspect wont be removed as noise by its very nature is random and so wont share a common phase to be inverted.  Your best best would be to take a recording of the noise and use that as a source file for a noise removal tool the likes of which you can find in programs like adobe audition or the waves plugins have noise removal tools you just have to be careful not to push them to far and introduce artefacts.


                                From: Florian Anwander <fanwander@...>
                                To: korg_mono-poly@yahoogroups.com
                                Cc: Mark Burow <burow@...>
                                Sent: Wednesday, 9 November 2011, 12:28
                                Subject: Re: [korg_mono-poly] White noise when played, even with all OSC off and filter closed

                                Hello Mark

                                Am 09.11.2011 11:21, schrieb Mark Burow:
                                > what exactly do you mean with recalibration? do I have to
                                trim/tune the
                                > voices, or is there some more options to do besides that?

                                I don't think that any recalibration is required.

                                regarding sound examples:
                                I won't be able to do recordings in the same way like you did until next
                                week. But I will do.

                                Florian


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