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Re: Short fids and other questions

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  • Terry Paul Brown
    I use aluminum knitting needles, and some wooden ones also. In particular, I cut the aluminum knitting needle to length and then threaded the inside of the
    Message 1 of 27 , Dec 5, 2007
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      I use aluminum knitting needles, and some wooden ones also.

      In particular, I cut the aluminum knitting needle to length and then
      threaded the inside of the open end making it possible to attach a cord
      of similar diameter and pull through the work piece. Without threading
      one can also insert the cordage and wedge it in place with a toothpick
      or wooden skewer.

      Works for me.

      tbrown
    • safr@earthlink.net
      Rodger, Drool is right. Cool stuff and these are the lowest prices I ve seen. I do wonder what they mean about an internal snare with the straight fids. I m
      Message 2 of 27 , Dec 5, 2007
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        Rodger,

        Drool is right. Cool stuff and these are the lowest prices I've seen. I do wonder what they mean about an internal snare with the straight fids. I'm thinking the smaller sizes would be great for fancywork, but what is the snare? Thanks for the link.

        Cole 'grommet'


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Rodger Atkin
        To: knottyers@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: 12/5/2007 3:26:18 AM
        Subject: Re: [KnotTyers] Short fids and other questions


        Alternatively try this website. http://www.apsltd.com/Tree/d3000/e893.asp
        I am lusting after the set of Swedish fids they have.

        <safr@...> wrote: Rodger, that's pretty clever. I wonder where I can find stainless steel tubing, I'll have to keep my eyes open.

        Am I picturing your fid right, it pretty much is in the shape of a small Swedish, with a turkshead for a handle?

        grommet

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Rodger Atkin
        To: knottyers@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: 12/3/2007 6:53:31 PM
        Subject: Re: [KnotTyers] Short fids and other questions

        I use some stainless steel tubing that I cut off to a long slope. You can push them into the rope and then put the ends into the tube to pull back. I have also fancied them up with long turks heads as handles. The sizes I have are !/4", 3/8", and 1/2".

        tivoligardens wrote: Hello all

        I am a newbe to knots and splicing. I got a great deal on a load of
        rope from a local HW store that was closing and some plastic fids. I
        went and bought the samon splicing set but I find the metal fids are
        too long for making stuff like dog leash. The plastic ones only go
        to 3/8ths.

        Do they make short metal fids ?
        Do the make larger plastic fids ?
        Can fids be made from wood and if so, is the size of the fid the
        diameter of the fid on the outside or the inside where the hole is ?

        I have bought a number of the best books around so I am set there but
        what other tools should I get ie Palm and Marlin Pike ?

        What is a good source for rope other the taking it from the deck of
        my bother in-laws boat ?

        Thank you and hope all of you who went to the meeting in Florida had
        a great time.

        Hal

        ---------------------------------
        Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

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      • Trevor Tutt
        ... try these sites out: http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?id=902&step=2&top_cat=1 http://www.smallparts.com/search/search.cfm http://www.mcmaster.com/
        Message 3 of 27 , Dec 5, 2007
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          On Wed, 5 Dec 2007 03:26:16 -0800 (PST), you wrote:

          >Alternatively try this website. http://www.apsltd.com/Tree/d3000/e893.asp
          >I am lusting after the set of Swedish fids they have.
          >
          > <safr@...> wrote: Rodger, that's pretty clever. I wonder where I can find stainless steel tubing, I'll have to keep my eyes open.

          try these sites out:

          http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?id=902&step=2&top_cat=1

          http://www.smallparts.com/search/search.cfm

          http://www.mcmaster.com/ search for stainless steel tubing


          --

          "What is twisted cannot be straightened..."

          Hand made, Hard Laid cotton cordage.
          For updating information, visit me at:
          www.oldbelfast.net
        • meghanspal
          I use aluminum knitting needles, which are actually hollow, and some wooden ones also. In particular, I cut the aluminum knitting needle to length and then
          Message 4 of 27 , Dec 5, 2007
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            I use aluminum knitting needles, which are actually hollow, and some
            wooden ones also.

            In particular, I cut the aluminum knitting needle to length and then
            threaded the inside of the open end making it possible to attach a
            cord of similar diameter and pull through the work piece. Without
            threading one can also insert the cordage and wedge it in place with a
            toothpick or wooden skewer.

            I hadn't thought of shaving the pointed end, but then that's the great
            thing about sharing in these groups.

            Works for me.

            tbrown
          • Dann Johnson
            The chrome tube pipes that bolt from the rear wheel to help hold up a banana seat makes great fids. Cut it into fid length sections, at an oblique angle.
            Message 5 of 27 , Dec 5, 2007
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              The chrome tube pipes that bolt from the rear wheel to help hold up a "banana seat" makes great fids.

              Cut it into fid length sections, at an oblique angle. Polish the sharp edges on a grinder and then a brass brush, or sand paper. It becomes sort of a Swedish Fid.

              I've collected a number of old single speed 20 inch bikes from garbage days, or garage sales at a $1 or 2 each.
              There are always one bike or more with a banana seat.

              Gears / chains etc from Old bikes can be made into rope machines. Old garage door openers with the wireless remote can power a bicycle chain rope machine.

              Dann


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Trevor Tutt
              ... surely, you re not going to cut up the kids bikes for a fid, are you? ;) and so close to christmas too! ... all I can say in defense of new pipe, is that
              Message 6 of 27 , Dec 5, 2007
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                On Wed, 5 Dec 2007 12:57:27 -0800 (PST), you wrote:

                >
                >The chrome tube pipes that bolt from the rear wheel to help hold up a "banana seat" makes great fids.

                surely, you're not going to cut up the kids bikes for a fid, are you?
                ;)

                and so close to christmas too!

                >Cut it into fid length sections, at an oblique angle. Polish the sharp edges on a grinder and then a brass brush, or sand paper. It becomes sort of a Swedish Fid.
                >
                >I've collected a number of old single speed 20 inch bikes from garbage days, or garage sales at a $1 or 2 each.
                > There are always one bike or more with a banana seat.
                >
                >Gears / chains etc from Old bikes can be made into rope machines. Old garage door openers with the wireless remote can power a bicycle chain rope machine.

                all I can say in defense of new pipe, is that its going to be mostly
                clean on the inside. depending on where you get it, it could be
                extremely clean inside.

                i'd like to make a rope machine that I can sit down and pedal to
                twist. good exercize for a rapidly aging old goat.
                its more likely I'd make one of the kids get up there and pedal.


                --

                "What is twisted cannot be straightened..."

                Hand made, Hard Laid cotton cordage.
                For updating information, visit me at:
                www.oldbelfast.net
              • Rodger Atkin
                The snare is two pieces of metal set at an angle so the cord jams into them, similar to the cleats used on small boats to jam rope. wrote:
                Message 7 of 27 , Dec 5, 2007
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                  The snare is two pieces of metal set at an angle so the cord jams into them, similar to the cleats used on small boats to jam rope.

                  <safr@...> wrote: Rodger,

                  Drool is right. Cool stuff and these are the lowest prices I've seen. I do wonder what they mean about an internal snare with the straight fids. I'm thinking the smaller sizes would be great for fancywork, but what is the snare? Thanks for the link.

                  Cole 'grommet'


                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Rodger Atkin
                  To: knottyers@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: 12/5/2007 3:26:18 AM
                  Subject: Re: [KnotTyers] Short fids and other questions


                  Alternatively try this website. http://www.apsltd.com/Tree/d3000/e893.asp
                  I am lusting after the set of Swedish fids they have.

                  wrote: Rodger, that's pretty clever. I wonder where I can find stainless steel tubing, I'll have to keep my eyes open.

                  Am I picturing your fid right, it pretty much is in the shape of a small Swedish, with a turkshead for a handle?

                  grommet

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Rodger Atkin
                  To: knottyers@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: 12/3/2007 6:53:31 PM
                  Subject: Re: [KnotTyers] Short fids and other questions

                  I use some stainless steel tubing that I cut off to a long slope. You can push them into the rope and then put the ends into the tube to pull back. I have also fancied them up with long turks heads as handles. The sizes I have are !/4", 3/8", and 1/2".

                  tivoligardens wrote: Hello all

                  I am a newbe to knots and splicing. I got a great deal on a load of
                  rope from a local HW store that was closing and some plastic fids. I
                  went and bought the samon splicing set but I find the metal fids are
                  too long for making stuff like dog leash. The plastic ones only go
                  to 3/8ths.

                  Do they make short metal fids ?
                  Do the make larger plastic fids ?
                  Can fids be made from wood and if so, is the size of the fid the
                  diameter of the fid on the outside or the inside where the hole is ?

                  I have bought a number of the best books around so I am set there but
                  what other tools should I get ie Palm and Marlin Pike ?

                  What is a good source for rope other the taking it from the deck of
                  my bother in-laws boat ?

                  Thank you and hope all of you who went to the meeting in Florida had
                  a great time.

                  Hal

                  ---------------------------------
                  Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  Yahoo! Groups Links

                  ---------------------------------
                  Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                  Yahoo! Groups Links






                  ---------------------------------
                  Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • safr@earthlink.net
                  Trevor, Great links! I need more money to spend on stuff ;-) I picked up some stainless steel tubing at a local hardware store today, 5/16,1/4,3/16. I m going
                  Message 8 of 27 , Dec 5, 2007
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                    Trevor,

                    Great links! I need more money to spend on stuff ;-)

                    I picked up some stainless steel tubing at a local hardware store today, 5/16,1/4,3/16. I'm going to angle cut the ends and polish. One advantage of fids of this type as opposed to self-threading needles is, I don't have to dedicate a needle to a line. Just push the small fid through, make the tuck and move on to the next line/tuck. At least this is what I am hoping :-)

                    I enjoy making my own self-threading needles, though the tapping is tricky for me with the small stuff.

                    Now what I would really like, and boy am I looking, are some wire loops with handles. Still hard for me to call them wire loops. Where I grew up (learned rigging) they called them 'cheaters'. I've seen some lovely examples in knot books and I always wonder when I see them, where did they get those. I'd make my own if I could figure how to secure the wire loop to the handle. I'd like any suggestions.

                    BTW besides making my own tools, I do find time to actually tie some knot too ;-)

                    Cole 'grommet'


                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Trevor Tutt
                    To: knottyers@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: 12/5/2007 9:44:41 AM
                    Subject: Re: [KnotTyers] Short fids and other questions


                    On Wed, 5 Dec 2007 03:26:16 -0800 (PST), you wrote:

                    >Alternatively try this website. http://www.apsltd.com/Tree/d3000/e893.asp
                    >I am lusting after the set of Swedish fids they have.
                    >
                    > <safr@...> wrote: Rodger, that's pretty clever. I wonder where I can find stainless steel tubing, I'll have to keep my eyes open.

                    try these sites out:

                    http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?id=902&step=2&top_cat=1

                    http://www.smallparts.com/search/search.cfm

                    http://www.mcmaster.com/ search for stainless steel tubing

                    --

                    "What is twisted cannot be straightened..."

                    Hand made, Hard Laid cotton cordage.
                    For updating information, visit me at:
                    www.oldbelfast.net



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Eddie Climo
                    ... If you want to go even smaller than that, you can get tubing in a range of sizes from model-makers shops (at least, you can here in England). It s
                    Message 9 of 27 , Dec 6, 2007
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                      On 6 Dec 2007, at 04:30, "" <safr@...> wrote:
                      > I picked up some stainless steel tubing at a local hardware store
                      > today, 5/16,1/4,3/16. I'm going to angle cut the ends and polish.
                      > One advantage of fids of this type as opposed to self-threading
                      > needles is, I don't have to dedicate a needle to a line. Just push
                      > the small fid through, make the tuck and move on to the next line/
                      > tuck. At least this is what I am hoping :-)

                      If you want to go even smaller than that, you can get tubing in a
                      range of sizes from model-makers shops (at least, you can here in
                      England). It's seemingly used for model steam engines, ships etc.,
                      and the shops have all sorts of tiny tools that are ideal for the
                      knotter working in small stuff!

                      I like to use the brass tubing myself, but it's also sometimes
                      available in stainless steel as well; the aluminium should, of
                      course, be avoided! These mini-fids can either be finished off, as
                      someone described, with the likes of a turk's head, or (for the
                      really small diameters) a spare tool handle (here they're sold under
                      the Python brand name).

                      > I enjoy making my own self-threading needles, though the tapping is
                      > tricky for me with the small stuff.

                      With the really small ones, you can use self-tapping screws, which
                      come in a range of diameters.

                      > Now what I would really like, and boy am I looking, are some wire
                      > loops with handles. Still hard for me to call them wire loops.
                      > Where I grew up (learned rigging) they called them 'cheaters'. I've
                      > seen some lovely examples in knot books and I always wonder when I
                      > see them, where did they get those. I'd make my own if I could
                      > figure how to secure the wire loop to the handle. I'd like any
                      > suggestions.

                      Using one of the empty handles I mentioned, start by dry-fitting your
                      wire loop into the hole. You may have to drill out the hole a little
                      to make room for it. If the hole's too big, you'll need to pack
                      something else in with the wire -- another short length of wire, or a
                      cocktail stick might do. This would be glued in place at the same
                      time as the wire loop.

                      Once you have a snug fit, remove the wire (and any packing) and use
                      one of those 2-part epoxy resins (brands over here include Araldite
                      and Evo-Stik Superstrong). Do take note of the safety warnings on the
                      packaging! Cyanoacrylate 'superglue' is not a good choice, as that is
                      intended for gluing 2 close-fitting surfaces together, and what you
                      need here is to fill up the gaps with glue instead.

                      Put some glue in the hole using something thin (like a cocktail
                      stick); the glue gets more runny if you heat it (with a hair drier,
                      perhaps), and will flow down the hole more readily (it'll also set a
                      little more quickly, so work fast!). Smear some more of the glue down
                      the shanks of the wire (and any packing) and slowly push it all home,
                      wiping off any surplus glue. This can be messy, and the glue is NOT a
                      good idea on skin, so best to wear gloves.

                      Some of these glues claim to be 'Superfast!', and boast curing times
                      of a few minutes, but I think it's best to leave it to cure overnight
                      just to be on the safe side.

                      Hope this helps,

                      Eddie Climo

                      ps. I've posted a couple of photos into the Files section to show the
                      completed mini-fids.
                    • Trevor Tutt
                      ... can you post a picture or a link to an example? what are these used for? -- What is twisted cannot be straightened... Hand made, Hard Laid cotton
                      Message 10 of 27 , Dec 6, 2007
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                        On Wed, 5 Dec 2007 20:30:10 -0800, you wrote:

                        >Now what I would really like, and boy am I looking, are some wire loops with handles.
                        >Still hard for me to call them wire loops. Where I grew up (learned rigging) they called them 'cheaters'.
                        > I've seen some lovely examples in knot books and I always wonder when I see them,
                        > where did they get those. I'd make my own if I could figure how to secure the wire loop to the handle.
                        > I'd like any suggestions.

                        can you post a picture or a link to an example?
                        what are these used for?


                        --

                        "What is twisted cannot be straightened..."

                        Hand made, Hard Laid cotton cordage.
                        For updating information, visit me at:
                        www.oldbelfast.net
                      • dmjcsurf
                        Vince Brennan s site has good instruction on how to make a puller. Check out http://www.frayedknotarts.com/knifetool.html The second section has the line
                        Message 11 of 27 , Dec 6, 2007
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                          Vince Brennan's site has good instruction on how to make a puller.

                          Check out http://www.frayedknotarts.com/knifetool.html

                          The second section has the line pullers.

                          Here is the link to the pics

                          http://www.frayedknotarts.com/images/pullers-lg.gif

                          Dave


                          --- In knottyers@yahoogroups.com, Trevor Tutt <ttutt@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > On Wed, 5 Dec 2007 20:30:10 -0800, you wrote:
                          >
                          > >Now what I would really like, and boy am I looking, are some wire
                          loops with handles.
                          > >Still hard for me to call them wire loops. Where I grew up
                          (learned rigging) they called them 'cheaters'.
                          > > I've seen some lovely examples in knot books and I always wonder
                          when I see them,
                          > > where did they get those. I'd make my own if I could figure how
                          to secure the wire loop to the handle.
                          > > I'd like any suggestions.
                          >
                          > can you post a picture or a link to an example?
                          > what are these used for?
                          >
                          >
                          > --
                          >
                          > "What is twisted cannot be straightened..."
                          >
                          > Hand made, Hard Laid cotton cordage.
                          > For updating information, visit me at:
                          > www.oldbelfast.net
                          >
                        • Trevor Tutt
                          ... Ah! I had envisioned two handles. -- What is twisted cannot be straightened... Hand made, Hard Laid cotton cordage. For updating information, visit me
                          Message 12 of 27 , Dec 6, 2007
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                            On Thu, 06 Dec 2007 16:56:28 -0000, you wrote:

                            >Vince Brennan's site has good instruction on how to make a puller.
                            >
                            >Check out http://www.frayedknotarts.com/knifetool.html
                            >
                            >The second section has the line pullers.
                            >
                            >Here is the link to the pics
                            >
                            >http://www.frayedknotarts.com/images/pullers-lg.gif
                            >
                            >Dave

                            Ah! I had envisioned two handles.


                            --

                            "What is twisted cannot be straightened..."

                            Hand made, Hard Laid cotton cordage.
                            For updating information, visit me at:
                            www.oldbelfast.net
                          • Vince Brennan
                            Line pullers: try this: .24AWG wire (or similar), cut a piece 8 long, then bend at center to get (2) 4 legs. Start the covering (2 or 3 lines appx 18 long
                            Message 13 of 27 , Dec 7, 2007
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                              Line pullers: try this:

                              .24AWG wire (or similar), cut a piece 8" long, then bend at center to
                              get (2) 4" legs.

                              Start the covering (2 or 3 lines appx 18" long depending on size of
                              cord used) and form a footrope in the centre of them, giving you (4 or
                              6) legs and fender-hitch for three courses around both wires. Then bend
                              the wires outwards (90degrees), do one more course, bend the wires in
                              and crossing each other (180 degrees), do another course, bend back and
                              across each other (180 degrees), do another course, then bend the wires
                              back again (180 degrees), but this time where they cross bend then an
                              additional 90 degrees so they continue along the axis of the handle, do
                              as many more courses around the two wires as you wish to get the
                              approximate length desired, cut off the excess wire and do two more
                              courses* then end off with whatever knot you want (another footrope
                              works well here, or a star or....) clip everything tight and short and
                              varnish.

                              (*You can do as many more courses as you wish at the end... the idea is
                              to be sure that you don't have the wire ends where they can poke out and
                              attack you.)

                              To keep the loop open, put a small crimp in one leg of the exposed loop
                              and you''ll come up with the scimitar look I get. (see the pictures on
                              the site <http://www.frayedknotarts.com/knifetool.html> )

                              They last about 30-40 hours of pulling and then usually fail at the bend
                              at the tip of the puller: for that reason, I usually make up at least
                              four or five at a time and save them as replacements. Better the wire,
                              longer they last. I use .24awg guitar string from Musicians Friend.

                              You can adorn them with footropes as you go, or apply other covering
                              knots, or just leave the fender cover plain.



                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Beth Hilborn
                              I m going to combine a hi, I m here & know diddley squat post with a plea. Some of us are visual learners (meaning me) and translating words into actions
                              Message 14 of 27 , Dec 7, 2007
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                                I'm going to combine a "hi, I'm here & know diddley squat" post with a plea.
                                Some of us are visual learners (meaning me) and translating words into
                                actions are kinda tough on occasion. Is there any chance for a couple of
                                drawings or 'do it this way' pics?

                                I'm new to knotting, having started braiding my own showdog leads and
                                wanting to fancy them up. That led me to various and sundry sites, and
                                forums and ultimately to this email list (amongst others).
                                I do almost all of my work with Kangaroo lace (and no, I do NOT cut my own -
                                city girls know that lace comes on spools, which grow on trees in Australia)
                                and am just starting to mess around with cord.

                                I'm looking forward to furthering my knowledge of thing 'knotical'!

                                Beth
                                http://www.kangaroolead.com
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: "Vince Brennan" <artisan@...>
                                To: <knottyers@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 12:31 PM
                                Subject: [KnotTyers] Re: Short fids and other questions


                                > Line pullers: try this:
                                >
                                > .24AWG wire (or similar), cut a piece 8" long, then bend at center to
                                > get (2) 4" legs.
                                > <snippaged>



                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Vince Brennan
                                Not to worry... many of us (and I include ME in da groop ) are visual learners. Show me how to do something once (possibly twice if it s REEL tricky) and
                                Message 15 of 27 , Dec 7, 2007
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                                  Not to worry... many of us (and I include ME in 'da groop') are "visual"
                                  learners. Show me how to do something once (possibly twice if it's REEL
                                  tricky) and I've got it. Let me drive somewhere and I can almost always
                                  get there again. Drive me somewhere and there's at least a 60% chance
                                  I'll not be able to do it.

                                  I'll work up a photo tutorial and post it to my TUTORIALS
                                  <http://www.frayedknotarts.com/tutor1.html> page... it'll be after
                                  Chrissy, though.

                                  Anyone who thinks they'd like to work up a tutorial on their favourite
                                  knot/sennit/whatever is more than welcome to do so and send it to me...
                                  I'll be delighted to post it and give all credit to the author(s).
                                  Email me for details.

                                  Especially looking for different flat sennits at present. Several
                                  requests for them.

                                  Vince



                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • threelees1@aol.com
                                  iF YOU ARE GOING TO DO A WHOLE LOT OF ROPE WORK, YOU MIGHT WANT TO SEE BRYON TOSS SPLICING WANDS. OTHERWISE, LOOK ON EBAY In a message dated 12/2/2007
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Dec 8, 2007
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                                    iF YOU ARE GOING TO DO A WHOLE LOT OF ROPE WORK, YOU MIGHT WANT TO SEE BRYON
                                    TOSS' SPLICING WANDS. OTHERWISE, LOOK ON EBAY


                                    In a message dated 12/2/2007 9:49:14 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                                    carteradamscott@... writes:




                                    I found mine at a local disposal/camping store.

                                    On Dec 3, 2007 1:32 PM, Adam Carter <_carteradamscott@carterada_
                                    (mailto:carteradamscott@...) > wrote:
                                    > Hey,
                                    >
                                    > I don't use a metal fyd, but I do have a metal marlinespike in tandom
                                    > with a folding sailors knife. The marlinespike is about 5cm long and
                                    > probably about 1 to 1.5 cm in diameter. I find it remarkably useful,
                                    > for both pretty and practical work. It's not quite as useful as a fyd,
                                    > which are generally more tapered, but for smaller work that normally
                                    > isn't an issue.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    _http://www.worldknihttp://www.worldhttp://www.worldhttp://www.wohttp://www.wohttp://www.wohttp://w_ (http://www.worldknives.com/product
                                    s/joseph-rodgers-british-army-marlin-spike-knife-sabask-376.html)
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > On Dec 2, 2007 2:49 PM, tivoligardens <_tivoligardens@tivoligar_
                                    (mailto:tivoligardens@...) > wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Hello all
                                    > >
                                    > > I am a newbe to knots and splicing. I got a great deal on a load of
                                    > > rope from a local HW store that was closing and some plastic fids. I
                                    > > went and bought the samon splicing set but I find the metal fids are
                                    > > too long for making stuff like dog leash. The plastic ones only go
                                    > > to 3/8ths.
                                    > >
                                    > > Do they make short metal fids ?
                                    > > Do the make larger plastic fids ?
                                    > > Can fids be made from wood and if so, is the size of the fid the
                                    > > diameter of the fid on the outside or the inside where the hole is ?
                                    > >
                                    > > I have bought a number of the best books around so I am set there but
                                    > > what other tools should I get ie Palm and Marlin Pike ?
                                    > >
                                    > > What is a good source for rope other the taking it from the deck of
                                    > > my bother in-laws boat ?
                                    > >
                                    > > Thank you and hope all of you who went to the meeting in Florida had
                                    > > a great time.
                                    > >
                                    > > Hal
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >






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