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To buy or (k)not to buy...

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  • Rick Rogers
    Good morning and thanks for the replies to my first post. There are so many links and so little time! My question this morning is one for which I m looking
    Message 1 of 16 , May 2, 2007
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      Good morning and thanks for the replies to my first post. There are
      so many links and so little time! My question this morning is one for
      which I'm looking for your experienced advice. I've heard of the ABOK
      and found it on Amazon for $50. Keeping in mind that I'm a beginning
      knot tyer, is it worth it for me to buy this book, or would I be
      better served by a much cheaper, although less comprehensive, book?
      How many of the knots in the ABOK do people really tie? From what
      I've heard, there are thousands of knots and I just can't see me using
      anywhere near that number.

      Again, thanks for your time.

      Rick
    • Ken Gray
      you ll be happier with it than without, i think. granted it has some really complicated stuff but it is the only book i ve seen that really plumbs the depths
      Message 2 of 16 , May 2, 2007
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        you'll be happier with it than without, i think.
        granted it has some really complicated stuff but it is the only book i've
        seen that really plumbs the depths while keeping the shore easily
        accessible.

        --
        Ken

        www.TheMacroHook.blogspot.com

        On 5/2/07, Rick Rogers <rerog65@...> wrote:
        >
        > Good morning and thanks for the replies to my first post. There are
        > so many links and so little time! My question this morning is one for
        > which I'm looking for your experienced advice. I've heard of the ABOK
        > and found it on Amazon for $50. Keeping in mind that I'm a beginning
        > knot tyer, is it worth it for me to buy this book, or would I be
        > better served by a much cheaper, although less comprehensive, book?
        > How many of the knots in the ABOK do people really tie? From what
        > I've heard, there are thousands of knots and I just can't see me using
        > anywhere near that number.
        >
        > Again, thanks for your time.
        >
        > Rick
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • LoopyLacer@aol.com
        In a message dated 5/2/2007 8:01:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time, kenegray@gmail.com writes: plumbs the depths while keeping the shore easily accessible I love
        Message 3 of 16 , May 2, 2007
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          In a message dated 5/2/2007 8:01:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
          kenegray@... writes:

          plumbs the depths while keeping the shore easily accessible

          I love that way of putting it, Ken!

          Honestly, Rick, you will NOT be disappointed and you will NOT regret buying
          the ABOK! It is a work of ART, as well as an instructional reference and an
          entertaining read! I can't count the time I have spent just browsing the
          pages and seeing all the things I want to try -- one of my copies has countless
          bookmarks in it, of things I "have to do...someday..."

          Besides the ABOK, may I further recommend the following:

          _Amazon.com: Knot Craft: Books: Des Pawson_
          (http://www.amazon.com/Knot-Craft-Pawson/dp/0939837633/ref=sr_1_4/103-6455372-4013444?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1
          178118890&sr=1-4)

          This is a fantastic book for beginners, because it gives the "instant
          gratification" most eager beginners desire. By that, I mean it puts together the
          knots it teaches into actual projects, that give the satisfaction and sense of
          accomplishment most beginners need in order to be encouraged to delve
          further into the craft of knot tying, and eventually putting their own knots
          together into other projects.

          _Amazon.com: Creative Ropecraft: Books: Stuart E. Grainger_
          (http://www.amazon.com/Creative-Ropecraft-Stuart-E-Grainger/dp/1574092480/ref=sr_1_1/103-64
          55372-4013444?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1178118564&sr=1-1)

          Great instruction and diagrams. I was able to learn the Star Knot from this
          one and it was EASY, once I "got it" -- but then again, isn't everything?
          LOL

          Both of the above books, along with the ABOK, are the beginnings of a great
          knot tying library. Believe me, the acquisition of the books becomes almost
          as addicting as the tying of the knots therein! : - D

          Most of all, have fun with it. Be sure to show us what you make -- we all
          love "eye candy" and enjoy seeing what everyone else makes. : - )

          Happy knotting, everyone!

          Lily -- STILL WAITING FOR PASSPORTS TO KNOW IF WE LEAVE FOR ENGLAND, MONDAY!


          Happily entangled in my own knots!
          Lily Qualls Morales
          Yucaipa, California, USA
          Committee Member, BSA Troop 33
          California Inland Empire Council, _http://www.bsa-ciec.org_
          (http://www.bsa-ciec.org/)
          List Mom for _BSA_Troop_33@yahoogroups.com_
          (mailto:BSA_Troop_33@yahoogroups.com)
          List Mom for _KnottyScouts@yahoogroups.com_
          (mailto:KnottyScouts@yahoogroups.com)
          List Mom for _Tatting@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:Tatting@yahoogroups.com)
          List "Auntie" for _Rings_N_Chains@yahoogroups.com_
          (mailto:Rings_N_Chains@yahoogroups.com)
          Mail to: _LoopyLacer@..._ (mailto:LoopyLacer@...)
          Website: _http://www.loopylacer.com_ (http://www.loopylacer.com/)
          Photo album: _http://photos.yahoo.com/LoopyLacer_
          (http://photos.yahoo.com/loopylacer)
          Exodus 35:35



          ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • willeke_igkt
          I love ABOK, but it is not a beginners book. To quote someone from an other forum: Quote: I have a new old stock copy of the 1993 edition. I have never seen
          Message 4 of 16 , May 2, 2007
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            I love ABOK, but it is not a beginners book.

            To quote someone from an other forum:

            Quote:
            I have a new old stock copy of the 1993 edition. I have never seen
            the earlier edition (1944) or the newest (2005 reprint I think?), but
            from what I can gather it seems to have plenty of information but
            generally be lacking in diagram how-to's. Most if not all of the
            diagrams are pretty small and there is generally a lack of visual
            flow in those diagrams without hunting throughout the text to figure
            out what is being shown in some of the diagrams. Generally I am just
            a bit disenchanted by the size and lack of detail of the diagrams.
            Otherwise the book is a wealth of knot history, marlispike seamanship
            history, etc. It seems like what a book would be that tries to show
            it all but remains limited in size and/or number of pages, rather
            than growing to accomodate the need in volume.
            End of quote. Link to the origional of this quote:
            http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1090006107/12#12

            I do not completely agree with Dan who wrote this, but I understand
            his sentiment.

            The best thing of ABOK is that it has more of the kind of knots you
            like to tye, and more still. But if you want mainly to learn the
            beginners level, pospone buying it, maybe till you see a cheap copy.

            Willeke
          • Ken Gray
            try your library; i know mine has one in the reference section. -- Ken www.TheMacroHook.blogspot.com ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            Message 5 of 16 , May 2, 2007
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              try your library; i know mine has one in the reference section.

              --
              Ken

              www.TheMacroHook.blogspot.com

              On 5/2/07, willeke_igkt <willeke_igkt@...> wrote:
              >
              > I love ABOK, but it is not a beginners book.
              >
              > To quote someone from an other forum:
              >
              > Quote:
              > I have a new old stock copy of the 1993 edition. I have never seen
              > the earlier edition (1944) or the newest (2005 reprint I think?), but
              > from what I can gather it seems to have plenty of information but
              > generally be lacking in diagram how-to's. Most if not all of the
              > diagrams are pretty small and there is generally a lack of visual
              > flow in those diagrams without hunting throughout the text to figure
              > out what is being shown in some of the diagrams. Generally I am just
              > a bit disenchanted by the size and lack of detail of the diagrams.
              > Otherwise the book is a wealth of knot history, marlispike seamanship
              > history, etc. It seems like what a book would be that tries to show
              > it all but remains limited in size and/or number of pages, rather
              > than growing to accomodate the need in volume.
              > End of quote. Link to the origional of this quote:
              > http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1090006107/12#12
              >
              > I do not completely agree with Dan who wrote this, but I understand
              > his sentiment.
              >
              > The best thing of ABOK is that it has more of the kind of knots you
              > like to tye, and more still. But if you want mainly to learn the
              > beginners level, pospone buying it, maybe till you see a cheap copy.
              >
              > Willeke
              >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • dewilde1@insightbb.com
              I agree 100% with LoopyLacer s post. Lily, did nt they tell you the passports were IN THE MAIL : ). [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              Message 6 of 16 , May 2, 2007
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                I agree 100% with LoopyLacer's post.

                Lily, did'nt they tell you the passports were IN THE MAIL : ).

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Todd Ellner
                Speaking of ABOK, according to the government website it s not under copyright any longer. Does anyone know if this is true? I m making a searchable, threaded,
                Message 7 of 16 , May 2, 2007
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                  Speaking of ABOK, according to the government website it's not under
                  copyright any longer. Does anyone know if this is true? I'm making a
                  searchable, threaded, hypertext version for my own use and was thinking
                  of selling it.

                  Regards,
                  Todd
                • SKIP HIPPS
                  Aloha Rick In my humble opinion, it will be the best money you ever spend! Christians need the Bible, Muslims, need the Koran, and knot tyers need the ABOK.
                  Message 8 of 16 , May 2, 2007
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                    Aloha Rick

                    In my humble opinion, it will be the best money you ever spend! Christians need the Bible, Muslims, need the Koran, and knot tyers need the ABOK. The money you spend now will be repaid many times over as you turn the pages and add to your knowledge of knots. For a beginner, you couldn't ask for more. Clear drawings of the knots, and instructions clear enough for even the most rank amateur to follow. Hey, the first knot in the book is the sheet bend, and you can't get more basic than that except maybe for a overhand knot, or a half hitch, and you'll find then in chapter 1 as well.

                    I would suggest that you look on EBAY. The ABOK is listed almost daily, and you can pick one up for around $40.00 or so, if you don't get in a hurry, so I say, go for it. I'm sure you will find that it was the best money you ever spent.

                    Skip Hipps
                    THE KNOTWRIGHT


                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Rick Rogers<mailto:rerog65@...>
                    To: knottyers@yahoogroups.com<mailto:knottyers@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 7:15 AM
                    Subject: [KnotTyers] To buy or (k)not to buy...


                    Good morning and thanks for the replies to my first post. There are
                    so many links and so little time! My question this morning is one for
                    which I'm looking for your experienced advice. I've heard of the ABOK
                    and found it on Amazon for $50. Keeping in mind that I'm a beginning
                    knot tyer, is it worth it for me to buy this book, or would I be
                    better served by a much cheaper, although less comprehensive, book?
                    How many of the knots in the ABOK do people really tie? From what
                    I've heard, there are thousands of knots and I just can't see me using
                    anywhere near that number.

                    Again, thanks for your time.

                    Rick





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • bulletbob1944
                    Dear Rick, I have been knotting for about 15 years and have about 300 books on knots and braids. I own 5 different editions of Ashley. I love the book however
                    Message 9 of 16 , May 2, 2007
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                      Dear Rick,

                      I have been knotting for about 15 years and have about 300 books on
                      knots and braids. I own 5 different editions of Ashley. I love the book
                      however I don't recommend it for the beginners because it can be very
                      difficult to learn from not to mention the errors. You can buy it later
                      if you decide to becone a real knothead.

                      Here is what I would recommend that will make your $50 go a long way
                      and be a good foundation for a library.
                      1) The Marlinespike Sailor by Harvey Garrett Smith it's a paperback
                      2) Creative Rope Craft by Stewart Grainger - fantastic
                      illustrations
                      3) Knots Useful & Ornamental by Ron Edwards - excellent
                      The first two books can be found on Amazon. I carry #3 for $10 if you
                      want it, send me an e-mail. The three of them should cost less than $50
                      and you can carry them anywhere. They are my traveling library. They
                      are not as comprehensive as Ashley but they are much more readable and
                      much easier to get started learning from - especially Grainger. He has
                      absolutely the best illustrations.

                      If you are interested in fancy knots, remember that the quality of the
                      knotting cord factors in very greatly in how the finished knot will
                      look and feel. Yes you have to tiethem but if the cord is not hard
                      laid, the knot will never tighten properly and you hard work will look
                      and wear like crap. No amount of tying and thightening skill will
                      compensate for poor material. Don't expect to go to Home Depot or your
                      local craft store and find good knotting material. It ain't there.

                      Mini-blind cord is great to begin with. I carry lots of it in 1.5mm for
                      $3/100' spool.

                      If you are working with leather, stick with good Roo lace.

                      Another thing that will help you imencely, plan on attending the North
                      American IGKT annual meeting. You will advance your learning by light
                      years and meet some really great people willing to help you.

                      Check out my group too. Here is the link:

                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/marlinspikeknotworks/


                      I know that's a little winded but trust me you will learn much faster
                      with these books and Ashley's will be easier to read lated once you
                      have gained some experience.

                      Feel free to contact me if you have any questions

                      Robert Black
                      Marlinspike Knot Works
                    • Rick Rogers
                      Great answer. I started taking your advice by joining your group. I should show up as rerog65 (@yahoo.com). Thanks for the answers. Rick bulletbob1944
                      Message 10 of 16 , May 2, 2007
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                        Great answer. I started taking your advice by joining your group. I should show up as rerog65 (@...). Thanks for the answers.
                        Rick

                        bulletbob1944 <rhblack@...> wrote:
                        Dear Rick,

                        I have been knotting for about 15 years and have about 300 books on
                        knots and braids. I own 5 different editions of Ashley. I love the book
                        however I don't recommend it for the beginners because it can be very
                        difficult to learn from not to mention the errors. You can buy it later
                        if you decide to becone a real knothead.

                        Here is what I would recommend that will make your $50 go a long way
                        and be a good foundation for a library.
                        1) The Marlinespike Sailor by Harvey Garrett Smith it's a paperback
                        2) Creative Rope Craft by Stewart Grainger - fantastic
                        illustrations
                        3) Knots Useful & Ornamental by Ron Edwards - excellent
                        The first two books can be found on Amazon. I carry #3 for $10 if you
                        want it, send me an e-mail. The three of them should cost less than $50
                        and you can carry them anywhere. They are my traveling library. They
                        are not as comprehensive as Ashley but they are much more readable and
                        much easier to get started learning from - especially Grainger. He has
                        absolutely the best illustrations.

                        If you are interested in fancy knots, remember that the quality of the
                        knotting cord factors in very greatly in how the finished knot will
                        look and feel. Yes you have to tiethem but if the cord is not hard
                        laid, the knot will never tighten properly and you hard work will look
                        and wear like crap. No amount of tying and thightening skill will
                        compensate for poor material. Don't expect to go to Home Depot or your
                        local craft store and find good knotting material. It ain't there.

                        Mini-blind cord is great to begin with. I carry lots of it in 1.5mm for
                        $3/100' spool.

                        If you are working with leather, stick with good Roo lace.

                        Another thing that will help you imencely, plan on attending the North
                        American IGKT annual meeting. You will advance your learning by light
                        years and meet some really great people willing to help you.

                        Check out my group too. Here is the link:

                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/marlinspikeknotworks/

                        I know that's a little winded but trust me you will learn much faster
                        with these books and Ashley's will be easier to read lated once you
                        have gained some experience.

                        Feel free to contact me if you have any questions

                        Robert Black
                        Marlinspike Knot Works






                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • LoopyLacer@aol.com
                        In a message dated 5/2/2007 11:08:39 AM Pacific Daylight Time, dewilde1@insightbb.com writes: Lily, did nt they tell you the passports were IN THE MAIL Well,
                        Message 11 of 16 , May 2, 2007
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                          In a message dated 5/2/2007 11:08:39 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
                          dewilde1@... writes:

                          Lily, did'nt they tell you the passports were IN THE MAIL


                          Well, thanx to a call to (and back from) my Congressman's office, I now have
                          FedEx tracking numbers. : - )

                          Looks like the trip is a go, after all. : - D

                          Hope to see everyone in Fareham!

                          Hugs, all.

                          Lily

                          Happily entangled in my own knots!
                          Lily Qualls Morales
                          Yucaipa, California, USA
                          Committee Member, BSA Troop 33
                          California Inland Empire Council, _http://www.bsa-ciec.org_
                          (http://www.bsa-ciec.org/)
                          List Mom for _BSA_Troop_33@yahoogroups.com_
                          (mailto:BSA_Troop_33@yahoogroups.com)
                          List Mom for _KnottyScouts@yahoogroups.com_
                          (mailto:KnottyScouts@yahoogroups.com)
                          List Mom for _Tatting@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:Tatting@yahoogroups.com)
                          List "Auntie" for _Rings_N_Chains@yahoogroups.com_
                          (mailto:Rings_N_Chains@yahoogroups.com)
                          Mail to: _LoopyLacer@..._ (mailto:LoopyLacer@...)
                          Website: _http://www.loopylacer.com_ (http://www.loopylacer.com/)
                          Photo album: _http://photos.yahoo.com/LoopyLacer_
                          (http://photos.yahoo.com/loopylacer)
                          Exodus 35:35



                          ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • LoopyLacer@aol.com
                          In a message dated 5/2/2007 11:34:08 AM Pacific Daylight Time, rhblack@hotmail.com writes: 3) Knots Useful & Ornamental by Ron Edwards - excellent ... I carry
                          Message 12 of 16 , May 2, 2007
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                            In a message dated 5/2/2007 11:34:08 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
                            rhblack@... writes:

                            3) Knots Useful & Ornamental by Ron Edwards - excellent ... I carry #3 for
                            $10 if you want it, send me an e-mail.

                            Very interested. Please let me know how to order. I do have a PayPal
                            account, or can send you a check, etc.

                            Thanx,

                            Lily


                            Happily entangled in my own knots!
                            Lily Qualls Morales
                            Yucaipa, California, USA
                            Committee Member, BSA Troop 33
                            California Inland Empire Council, _http://www.bsa-ciec.org_
                            (http://www.bsa-ciec.org/)
                            List Mom for _BSA_Troop_33@yahoogroups.com_
                            (mailto:BSA_Troop_33@yahoogroups.com)
                            List Mom for _KnottyScouts@yahoogroups.com_
                            (mailto:KnottyScouts@yahoogroups.com)
                            List Mom for _Tatting@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:Tatting@yahoogroups.com)
                            List "Auntie" for _Rings_N_Chains@yahoogroups.com_
                            (mailto:Rings_N_Chains@yahoogroups.com)
                            Mail to: _LoopyLacer@..._ (mailto:LoopyLacer@...)
                            Website: _http://www.loopylacer.com_ (http://www.loopylacer.com/)
                            Photo album: _http://photos.yahoo.com/LoopyLacer_
                            (http://photos.yahoo.com/loopylacer)
                            Exodus 35:35



                            ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Lindsey Philpott
                            Hi Bob, Great reply to a newbie with some good recommendations! Des Pawson s KnotCraft is another excellent book, with easy to follow diagrams. You should
                            Message 13 of 16 , May 2, 2007
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                              Hi Bob,

                              Great reply to a newbie with some good recommendations! Des Pawson's KnotCraft is another excellent book, with easy to follow diagrams. You should also promote your own DVD set - great learning tools and very easy to follow! Speaking of shameless self-promotion, I have just learned that my own book (Pocket Guide to Knots) is now available at International Marine and it includes color photos of about 110 knots, if you are interested. However, I was given pause to wonder about the North American Branch's annual meeting - are they having one this year? I see nothing on their web-site today. Just wondering....

                              Lindsey

                              PS Did you know that the Pacific Americas Branch of IGKT is having its tenth annual celebration and demonstration this year on July 6, 7 & 8 in San Pedro, CA? Lots of great knotters from around the USA, Canada and England will be there also. You are, and every one else interested is, more than welcome to join us if you care to! www.igktpab.org for details.





                              Lindsey
                              Board Member IGKTPAB


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • LoopyLacer@aol.com
                              In a message dated 5/2/2007 4:13:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time, pilgrimsailor@yahoo.com writes: PS Did you know that the Pacific Americas Branch of IGKT is
                              Message 14 of 16 , May 2, 2007
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                                In a message dated 5/2/2007 4:13:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
                                pilgrimsailor@... writes:

                                PS Did you know that the Pacific Americas Branch of IGKT is having its
                                tenth annual celebration and demonstration this year on July 6, 7 & 8 in San
                                Pedro, CA? Lots of great knotters from around the USA, Canada and England will
                                be there also. You are, and every one else interested is, more than welcome
                                to join us if you care to! _www.igktpab.org_ (http://www.igktpab.org) for
                                details.

                                I'll be there, too. Gonna be fun! I think I'll just enjoy my trip to
                                Fareham, etc., first and THEN say I can't wait for the PAB meeting. : - D

                                It's a summer filled with knots and knotting and great people to share it
                                with!

                                I feel very fortunate to have found this wonderful organization.

                                Looking forward to seeing you at both meetings, Lindsey. : - )


                                Happily entangled in my own knots!
                                Lily Qualls Morales
                                Yucaipa, California, USA
                                Committee Member, BSA Troop 33
                                California Inland Empire Council, _http://www.bsa-ciec.org_
                                (http://www.bsa-ciec.org/)
                                List Mom for _BSA_Troop_33@yahoogroups.com_
                                (mailto:BSA_Troop_33@yahoogroups.com)
                                List Mom for _KnottyScouts@yahoogroups.com_
                                (mailto:KnottyScouts@yahoogroups.com)
                                List Mom for _Tatting@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:Tatting@yahoogroups.com)
                                List "Auntie" for _Rings_N_Chains@yahoogroups.com_
                                (mailto:Rings_N_Chains@yahoogroups.com)
                                Mail to: _LoopyLacer@..._ (mailto:LoopyLacer@...)
                                Website: _http://www.loopylacer.com_ (http://www.loopylacer.com/)
                                Photo album: _http://photos.yahoo.com/LoopyLacer_
                                (http://photos.yahoo.com/loopylacer)
                                Exodus 35:35



                                ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • hugo ackermann
                                MEGGAA DITTOS hugo Ken Gray wrote: you ll be happier with it than without, i think. granted it has some really complicated stuff but it
                                Message 15 of 16 , May 2, 2007
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                                  "MEGGAA" DITTOS
                                  hugo

                                  Ken Gray <kenegray@...> wrote:
                                  you'll be happier with it than without, i think.
                                  granted it has some really complicated stuff but it is the only book i've
                                  seen that really plumbs the depths while keeping the shore easily
                                  accessible.

                                  --
                                  Ken

                                  www.TheMacroHook.blogspot.com

                                  On 5/2/07, Rick Rogers <rerog65@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Good morning and thanks for the replies to my first post. There are
                                  > so many links and so little time! My question this morning is one for
                                  > which I'm looking for your experienced advice. I've heard of the ABOK
                                  > and found it on Amazon for $50. Keeping in mind that I'm a beginning
                                  > knot tyer, is it worth it for me to buy this book, or would I be
                                  > better served by a much cheaper, although less comprehensive, book?
                                  > How many of the knots in the ABOK do people really tie? From what
                                  > I've heard, there are thousands of knots and I just can't see me using
                                  > anywhere near that number.
                                  >
                                  > Again, thanks for your time.
                                  >
                                  > Rick
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                                  ---------------------------------
                                  Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
                                  Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Robert Black
                                  Dear Todd, I don’t know if that’s true but Geoffrey Budworth should. I think he has something to do with editing the volume. Go to the IGKT web site, I
                                  Message 16 of 16 , May 4, 2007
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                                    Dear Todd,



                                    I don’t know if that’s true but Geoffrey Budworth should. I think he has
                                    something to do with editing the volume. Go to the IGKT web site, I think
                                    you can contact him from there.



                                    Robert Black

                                    Marlinspike Knot Works



                                    From: knottyers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:knottyers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                    Of Todd Ellner
                                    Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 1:10 PM
                                    To: knottyers@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [KnotTyers] Re: To buy or (k)not to buy...



                                    Speaking of ABOK, according to the government website it's not under
                                    copyright any longer. Does anyone know if this is true? I'm making a
                                    searchable, threaded, hypertext version for my own use and was thinking
                                    of selling it.

                                    Regards,
                                    Todd





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