Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [KnotTyers] Re: Gripe, gripe, gripe

Expand Messages
  • larry Osburn
    if you need to untie it under load take the load off with a prussic knot ... From: Hugo To: knottyers@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 11:11 AM
    Message 1 of 10 , May 13, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      if you need to untie it under load take the load off with a prussic knot

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Hugo
      To: knottyers@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 11:11 AM
      Subject: [KnotTyers] Re: Gripe, gripe, gripe


      If there is an anticipation of getting the bowline knot wet, then
      having to untie it simply put a slip loop/knot into it. When ready
      to untie just pull the slip knot and then it will be undone quickly.

      --- In knottyers@yahoogroups.com, "Gray, Ken E." <grayke@h...> wrote:
      > " It is almost impossible to untie a bowline in the rain while
      > there is a load on the line."
      >
      > Maybe that's how the backsplice got cut off ;o)
      >
      > Ken
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: knottyers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:knottyers@yahoogroups.com]
      On
      > Behalf Of wefnut
      > Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 9:53 PM
      > To: knottyers@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [KnotTyers] Gripe, gripe, gripe
      >
      > I just got finished being in charge of logistics for a weekend
      > Festival. That means being in charge of the Festival's rope (in
      > addition to other things.) It rained, which added an extra
      > dimension of fun to the weekend.
      >
      > 1)You would hope that people would try to coil a rope rather than
      > toss it in a pile into a mud puddle.
      >
      > 2) I have no idea why someone cut off that back splice. No one
      > needed to reeve a rope through anything.
      >
      > 3)It is almost impossible to untie a bowline in the rain while
      > there is a load on the line.
      >
      > 4)The telegraph hitch that someone on this site told me about
      > worked. A telegraph hitch that teminated in a taughtline hitch
      > worked well for stringing a line between two smooth metal
      > poles.
      >
      > I had a fun weekend.
      > Thanks for letting me rant.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links




      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Yahoo! Groups Links

      a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/knottyers/

      b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      knottyers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

      c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • M P
      I suspect the backsplice was cut off by a jealous piece of velcro. Most knots are hard to untie under load. Plus, what happens to the load when you untie the
      Message 2 of 10 , May 13, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        I suspect the backsplice was cut off by a jealous piece of velcro.

        Most knots are hard to untie under load. Plus, what happens to the load when you untie the knot?

        "Exploding" knots are useful if untieing is going to be an issue. There is a wonderful knot in the (relatively new) knot book "The Directory of Knots" by 'John Shaw' (supposedly a pseudonym for Budworth?) which he calls a "peace knot". Its a fixed loop, easier to tie and untie than the bowline and at least as secure (bowlines, in my experience, are fairly insecure, so I would really hesitate to tie a slip-bowline). I use this knot all the time now for quick loops, completely replacing the bowline (whose main advantage was always speed and ease of tying).

        I'm not really up on posting images, and I know that written descriptions of knots are hard to follow, but I will try, since this knot is so useful. If someone more versatile than I wants to post a picture, please do.

        Anyway, to tie this loop:

        Pinch a bight in the line near the working end;

        The remaining working end then loops down and back to the pinch point (which you are still holding closed), forming the actual loop. This allows you to size the loop pretty close to its final size.

        Now, the working end goes around the pinch point of the bight for one-and-a-half round turns. Start with the working end on your side of the rope, go over the top, make a round turn around the pinch point, and then continue around to the back of the rope;

        Reeve the working end through the loop (which is hanging down), from back to front;

        make another bight in the working end and stick it through the little bight (i.e. the one which you originally pinched). This is the "slip bight". I don't think it matters much which way you put it through, except for appearance.

        Work it tight. This is where this knot has a real advantage over most other knots that I know of. Ordinarily, dressing and setting a slip knot takes some care, because you have to pull on the "slip bight" without accidently pulling the working end through and losing the "slip". But, on this knot, if your round turn was made tight, all you have to do is grab the round turn and slide the knot closed, and it is practically already set! If you're like me, you probably will give the "slip bight" a pull anyway, but you almost dont have to.

        Try it and you'll see what I mean. Make the original "pinched" bight big, for ease of tying. You'll get all that rope back when you slide the knot closed, anyway!

        Happy Camping,
        Michael






        Hugo <hippshooter@...> wrote:
        If there is an anticipation of getting the bowline knot wet, then
        having to untie it simply put a slip loop/knot into it. When ready
        to untie just pull the slip knot and then it will be undone quickly.

        --- In knottyers@yahoogroups.com, "Gray, Ken E." <grayke@h...> wrote:
        > " It is almost impossible to untie a bowline in the rain while
        > there is a load on the line."
        >
        > Maybe that's how the backsplice got cut off ;o)
        >
        > Ken
        >
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: knottyers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:knottyers@yahoogroups.com]
        On
        > Behalf Of wefnut
        > Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 9:53 PM
        > To: knottyers@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [KnotTyers] Gripe, gripe, gripe
        >
        > I just got finished being in charge of logistics for a weekend
        > Festival. That means being in charge of the Festival's rope (in
        > addition to other things.) It rained, which added an extra
        > dimension of fun to the weekend.
        >
        > 1)You would hope that people would try to coil a rope rather than
        > toss it in a pile into a mud puddle.
        >
        > 2) I have no idea why someone cut off that back splice. No one
        > needed to reeve a rope through anything.
        >
        > 3)It is almost impossible to untie a bowline in the rain while
        > there is a load on the line.
        >
        > 4)The telegraph hitch that someone on this site told me about
        > worked. A telegraph hitch that teminated in a taughtline hitch
        > worked well for stringing a line between two smooth metal
        > poles.
        >
        > I had a fun weekend.
        > Thanks for letting me rant.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links




        ---------------------------------
        Yahoo! Groups Links

        To visit your group on the web, go to:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/knottyers/

        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        knottyers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • wefnut
        It sounds like you are describing something similar to my truckers hitch (so many knots get that name.) A slip knot would be nice, but in a public venue, I had
        Message 3 of 10 , May 13, 2005
        • 0 Attachment
          It sounds like you are describing something similar to my
          truckers hitch (so many knots get that name.) A slip knot would
          be nice, but in a public venue, I had to consider the effect of "busy
          little fingers" from the crowd.



          --- In knottyers@yahoogroups.com, M P <nexialist02@y...> wrote:
          > I suspect the backsplice was cut off by a jealous piece of
          velcro.
          >
          > Most knots are hard to untie under load. Plus, what happens
          to the load when you untie the knot?
          >
          > "Exploding" knots are useful if untieing is going to be an issue.
          There is a wonderful knot in the (relatively new) knot book "The
          Directory of Knots" by 'John Shaw' (supposedly a pseudonym for
          Budworth?) which he calls a "peace knot". Its a fixed loop, easier
          to tie and untie than the bowline and at least as secure
          (bowlines, in my experience, are fairly insecure, so I would really
          hesitate to tie a slip-bowline). I use this knot all the time now for
          quick loops, completely replacing the bowline (whose main
          advantage was always speed and ease of tying).
          >
          > I'm not really up on posting images, and I know that written
          descriptions of knots are hard to follow, but I will try, since this
          knot is so useful. If someone more versatile than I wants to post
          a picture, please do.
          >
          > Anyway, to tie this loop:
          >
          > Pinch a bight in the line near the working end;
          >
          > The remaining working end then loops down and back to the
          pinch point (which you are still holding closed), forming the
          actual loop. This allows you to size the loop pretty close to its
          final size.
          >
          > Now, the working end goes around the pinch point of the
          bight for one-and-a-half round turns. Start with the working end
          on your side of the rope, go over the top, make a round turn
          around the pinch point, and then continue around to the back of
          the rope;
          >
          > Reeve the working end through the loop (which is hanging
          down), from back to front;
          >
          > make another bight in the working end and stick it through the
          little bight (i.e. the one which you originally pinched). This is the
          "slip bight". I don't think it matters much which way you put it
          through, except for appearance.
          >
          > Work it tight. This is where this knot has a real advantage
          over most other knots that I know of. Ordinarily, dressing and
          setting a slip knot takes some care, because you have to pull on
          the "slip bight" without accidently pulling the working end through
          and losing the "slip". But, on this knot, if your round turn was
          made tight, all you have to do is grab the round turn and slide the
          knot closed, and it is practically already set! If you're like me, you
          probably will give the "slip bight" a pull anyway, but you almost
          dont have to.
          >
          > Try it and you'll see what I mean. Make the original "pinched"
          bight big, for ease of tying. You'll get all that rope back when you
          slide the knot closed, anyway!
          >
          > Happy Camping,
          > Michael
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Hugo <hippshooter@h...> wrote:
          > If there is an anticipation of getting the bowline knot wet, then
          > having to untie it simply put a slip loop/knot into it. When ready
          > to untie just pull the slip knot and then it will be undone quickly.
          >
          > --- In knottyers@yahoogroups.com, "Gray, Ken E."
          <grayke@h...> wrote:
          > > " It is almost impossible to untie a bowline in the rain while
          > > there is a load on the line."
          > >
          > > Maybe that's how the backsplice got cut off ;o)
          > >
          > > Ken
          > >
          > >
          > > -----Original Message-----
          > > From: knottyers@yahoogroups.com
          [mailto:knottyers@yahoogroups.com]
          > On
          > > Behalf Of wefnut
          > > Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 9:53 PM
          > > To: knottyers@yahoogroups.com
          > > Subject: [KnotTyers] Gripe, gripe, gripe
          > >
          > > I just got finished being in charge of logistics for a weekend
          > > Festival. That means being in charge of the Festival's rope
          (in
          > > addition to other things.) It rained, which added an extra
          > > dimension of fun to the weekend.
          > >
          > > 1)You would hope that people would try to coil a rope rather
          than
          > > toss it in a pile into a mud puddle.
          > >
          > > 2) I have no idea why someone cut off that back splice. No
          one
          > > needed to reeve a rope through anything.
          > >
          > > 3)It is almost impossible to untie a bowline in the rain while
          > > there is a load on the line.
          > >
          > > 4)The telegraph hitch that someone on this site told me
          about
          > > worked. A telegraph hitch that teminated in a taughtline hitch
          > > worked well for stringing a line between two smooth metal
          > > poles.
          > >
          > > I had a fun weekend.
          > > Thanks for letting me rant.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          > To visit your group on the web, go to:
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/knottyers/
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > knottyers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          Service.
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Hugo
          Michael, Here s a link that describes 6 exploding knots , are any of these the knot you re talking about? The description of yours seems much more involved
          Message 4 of 10 , May 13, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            Michael,
            Here's a link that describes 6 "exploding knots", are any of these
            the knot you're talking about? The description of yours seems much
            more involved than a bowline. While I can agree with you that the
            bowline may well not be the proper knot for a particular load but,
            that was the "subject" to begin with.

            http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/writing/explode.htm

            Thanks,
            Hugo

            --- In knottyers@yahoogroups.com, M P <nexialist02@y...> wrote:
            > I suspect the backsplice was cut off by a jealous piece of velcro.
            >
            > Most knots are hard to untie under load. Plus, what happens to the
            load when you untie the knot?
            >
            > "Exploding" knots are useful if untieing is going to be an issue.
            There is a wonderful knot in the (relatively new) knot book "The
            Directory of Knots" by 'John Shaw' (supposedly a pseudonym for
            Budworth?) which he calls a "peace knot". Its a fixed loop, easier
            to tie and untie than the bowline and at least as secure (bowlines,
            in my experience, are fairly insecure, so I would really hesitate to
            tie a slip-bowline). I use this knot all the time now for quick
            loops, completely replacing the bowline (whose main advantage was
            always speed and ease of tying).
            >
            > I'm not really up on posting images, and I know that written
            descriptions of knots are hard to follow, but I will try, since this
            knot is so useful. If someone more versatile than I wants to post a
            picture, please do.
            >
            > Anyway, to tie this loop:
            >
            > Pinch a bight in the line near the working end;
            >
            > The remaining working end then loops down and back to the pinch
            point (which you are still holding closed), forming the actual loop.
            This allows you to size the loop pretty close to its final size.
            >
            > Now, the working end goes around the pinch point of the bight
            for one-and-a-half round turns. Start with the working end on your
            side of the rope, go over the top, make a round turn around the pinch
            point, and then continue around to the back of the rope;
            >
            > Reeve the working end through the loop (which is hanging down),
            from back to front;
            >
            > make another bight in the working end and stick it through the
            little bight (i.e. the one which you originally pinched). This is
            the "slip bight". I don't think it matters much which way you put it
            through, except for appearance.
            >
            > Work it tight. This is where this knot has a real advantage over
            most other knots that I know of. Ordinarily, dressing and setting a
            slip knot takes some care, because you have to pull on the "slip
            bight" without accidently pulling the working end through and losing
            the "slip". But, on this knot, if your round turn was made tight,
            all you have to do is grab the round turn and slide the knot closed,
            and it is practically already set! If you're like me, you probably
            will give the "slip bight" a pull anyway, but you almost dont have
            to.
            >
            > Try it and you'll see what I mean. Make the original "pinched"
            bight big, for ease of tying. You'll get all that rope back when you
            slide the knot closed, anyway!
            >
            > Happy Camping,
            > Michael
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Hugo <hippshooter@h...> wrote:
            > If there is an anticipation of getting the bowline knot wet, then
            > having to untie it simply put a slip loop/knot into it. When ready
            > to untie just pull the slip knot and then it will be undone quickly.
            >
            > --- In knottyers@yahoogroups.com, "Gray, Ken E." <grayke@h...>
            wrote:
            > > " It is almost impossible to untie a bowline in the rain while
            > > there is a load on the line."
            > >
            > > Maybe that's how the backsplice got cut off ;o)
            > >
            > > Ken
            > >
            > >
            > > -----Original Message-----
            > > From: knottyers@yahoogroups.com
            [mailto:knottyers@yahoogroups.com]
            > On
            > > Behalf Of wefnut
            > > Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 9:53 PM
            > > To: knottyers@yahoogroups.com
            > > Subject: [KnotTyers] Gripe, gripe, gripe
            > >
            > > I just got finished being in charge of logistics for a weekend
            > > Festival. That means being in charge of the Festival's rope (in
            > > addition to other things.) It rained, which added an extra
            > > dimension of fun to the weekend.
            > >
            > > 1)You would hope that people would try to coil a rope rather than
            > > toss it in a pile into a mud puddle.
            > >
            > > 2) I have no idea why someone cut off that back splice. No one
            > > needed to reeve a rope through anything.
            > >
            > > 3)It is almost impossible to untie a bowline in the rain while
            > > there is a load on the line.
            > >
            > > 4)The telegraph hitch that someone on this site told me about
            > > worked. A telegraph hitch that teminated in a taughtline hitch
            > > worked well for stringing a line between two smooth metal
            > > poles.
            > >
            > > I had a fun weekend.
            > > Thanks for letting me rant.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            > To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/knottyers/
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > knottyers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            Service.
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Michael Erickson
            Hugo, I am not completly sure what knot Michael is talking about. I did notice that in all six of the exploding knots you referanced, the standing end bends as
            Message 5 of 10 , May 14, 2005
            • 0 Attachment
              Hugo,
              I am not completly sure what knot Michael is talking about.
              I did notice that in all six of the exploding knots you referanced,
              the standing end bends as part of the knot before it reaches the
              hitching point.

              In the standard hitches, bowline, taughtline, 2 half-hitches, the
              standing end is straight until it reaches the object to which it is
              hitching. I think this would make a significant strength difference.

              WEFnut


              --- In knottyers@yahoogroups.com, "Hugo" <hippshooter@h...>
              wrote:
              > Michael,
              > Here's a link that describes 6 "exploding knots", are any of
              these
              > the knot you're talking about? The description of yours seems
              much
              > more involved than a bowline. While I can agree with you that
              the
              > bowline may well not be the proper knot for a particular load
              but,
              > that was the "subject" to begin with.
              >
              > http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/writing/explode.htm
              >
              > Thanks,
              > Hugo
              >
            • Michael Erickson
              Oops, A bowline does have busy-ness in it before it reaches the hitching point. My error. Thats what I get for thinking about knots late at night without a
              Message 6 of 10 , May 14, 2005
              • 0 Attachment
                Oops,
                A bowline does have busy-ness in it before it reaches the
                hitching point. My error. Thats what I get for thinking about knots
                late at night without a rope.

                WEFnut

                > Hugo,
                > I am not completly sure what knot Michael is talking about.
                > I did notice that in all six of the exploding knots you referanced,
                > the standing end bends as part of the knot before it reaches
                the
                > hitching point.
                >
                > In the standard hitches, bowline, taughtline, 2 half-hitches, the
                > standing end is straight until it reaches the object to which it is
                > hitching. I think this would make a significant strength
                difference.
                >
                > WEFnut
                >
                >
                > --- In knottyers@yahoogroups.com, "Hugo" <hippshooter@h...>
                > wrote:
                > > Michael,
                > > Here's a link that describes 6 "exploding knots", are any of
                > these
                > > the knot you're talking about? The description of yours
                seems
                > much
                > > more involved than a bowline. While I can agree with you that
                > the
                > > bowline may well not be the proper knot for a particular load
                > but,
                > > that was the "subject" to begin with.
                > >
                > > http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/writing/explode.htm
                > >
                > > Thanks,
                > > Hugo
                > >
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.