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Re: A Coupple of Questions

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  • larryhelber
    I don t know of any NYC groups, I am in Rochester NY and haven t heard of anything but if you ever make it up this way... If you are having a problem
    Message 1 of 10 , Apr 16, 2005
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      I don't know of any NYC groups, I am in Rochester NY and haven't
      heard of anything but if you ever make it up this way... If you are
      having a problem learning from the drawings from books what finally
      taught me to do eye splices correctly is a video tape by Brian Toss,
      "Making your own Eye Splices". This tape teaches you how to make eye
      splices in just about every kind of line availible, cable laid,
      braided and the fancy high tech stuff. I can't walk past a piece of
      line and not want to put a splice into it. Brian Toss also has
      another video "Sailors' Knots & Splices" that shows how to splice
      cable laid and braided line.

      Brian Toss also showed me a good way to make a bowline that I use to
      always make fast, one error free and without looking. It is essentialy
      started by making a half hitch and pulling the workgin end forward
      causing the hitch to spill so it creates the loop (in the correct
      direction) with the running end coming through it. Wrap the running
      end around the standing end and tuck it back in the loop. Done.

      There are several different versions of the bowline. The common one
      properly tied will have the running end inside the loop. A "Tug Boat
      Bowline" the running end is outside of the loop and runs tangentaly
      across the top of the large loop (not lay along side the large loop
      you are tying).

      --- In knottyers@yahoogroups.com, Jason Butscher <Kattelson@y...> wrote:
      > Now the two questions that I have for you all are, is there any
      difference on what side the working end of the bowline ends up on, as
      in the inside of the bight or the outside of the bight? and the second
      one is there any knot tying groups in the NYC area that would allow me
      to attend to learn how to splice braided rope, mostly i want to learn
      the eye spice.
      >
      > Thanks,
      > Jason
      >
    • eliotmadow
      Jason - can t help you with NY... sorry. WRT bowlines, Larry gave a very complete answer. I am also a knot-tying newbie, but I have owned boats for a long
      Message 2 of 10 , Apr 16, 2005
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        Jason - can't help you with NY... sorry. WRT bowlines, Larry gave a
        very complete answer. I am also a knot-tying newbie, but I have
        owned boats for a long time. I was always taught that the running
        end should end up inside the loop of the bowline.

        I have managed to figure out eye splices from a few different books.
        The best descriptions showed the strands in three different colors
        (of course, I can't find that book right now to tell you). If you
        figure out how to get the splice to close tight around a thimble,
        let me know!

        Best -
        EAMO

        --- In knottyers@yahoogroups.com, Jason Butscher <Kattelson@y...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Fist of all HI to all.
        >
        > Now the two questions that I have for you all are, is there any
        difference on what side the working end of the bowline ends up on,
        as in the inside of the bight or the outside of the bight? and the
        second one is there any knot tying groups in the NYC area that would
        allow me to attend to learn how to splice braided rope, mostly i
        want to learn the eye spice.
        >
        > Thanks,
        > Jason
        >
        > __________________________________________________
        > Do You Yahoo!?
        > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        > http://mail.yahoo.com
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • larryhelber
        Pocket Guide to Knots & Splices by Des Pawson ISBN 0-7858-1446-9 may be the book you are refering to. It is a small square book and shows many different
        Message 3 of 10 , Apr 16, 2005
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          "Pocket Guide to Knots & Splices" by Des Pawson ISBN 0-7858-1446-9 may
          be the book you are refering to. It is a small square book and shows
          many different knots using different colored lines. I think the
          ariginal posting was asking about braided line. That is not covered
          in this book.

          To get your splice tight around a thimble measure your starting point
          by wraping the rope around the thimble and then start your splice
          about one turn back. It also help to sieze the unlayed portion before
          working the splice. Not getting the splice tight enough leaves you
          with a good oportunity to practice your siezing. It will look like you
          did some "extra" fancy work.

          --- In knottyers@yahoogroups.com, "eliotmadow" <eliot@m...> wrote:
          >
          > Jason - can't help you with NY... sorry. WRT bowlines, Larry gave a
          > very complete answer. I am also a knot-tying newbie, but I have
          > owned boats for a long time. I was always taught that the running
          > end should end up inside the loop of the bowline.
          >
          > I have managed to figure out eye splices from a few different books.
          > The best descriptions showed the strands in three different colors
          > (of course, I can't find that book right now to tell you). If you
          > figure out how to get the splice to close tight around a thimble,
          > let me know!
          >
          > Best -
          > EAMO
          >
          > --- In knottyers@yahoogroups.com, Jason Butscher <Kattelson@y...>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > Fist of all HI to all.
          > >
          > > Now the two questions that I have for you all are, is there any
          > difference on what side the working end of the bowline ends up on,
          > as in the inside of the bight or the outside of the bight? and the
          > second one is there any knot tying groups in the NYC area that would
          > allow me to attend to learn how to splice braided rope, mostly i
          > want to learn the eye spice.
          > >
          > > Thanks,
          > > Jason
          > >
          > > __________________________________________________
          > > Do You Yahoo!?
          > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
          > > http://mail.yahoo.com
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • threelees1@aol.com
          Sir: About 10 or so days ago I enrolled as a member of knottyers. I followed the instructions to the letter, yet when I bring up my yahoo groups it says
          Message 4 of 10 , Apr 16, 2005
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            Sir:

            About 10 or so days ago I enrolled as a member of knottyers. I followed the
            instructions to the letter, yet when I bring up my yahoo groups it says that
            I am not a member of any group. Also, I am still unable to open any of the
            members areas of the group. Cany you help me, or do you know anybody else
            that can.

            Thank you,

            Walter Seltzer


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • knotslipstick
            ... followed the ... it says that ... any of the ... anybody else ... Walter -- I replyed by e-mail as well... Here is a copy in case anyone else has the same
            Message 5 of 10 , Apr 18, 2005
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              --- In knottyers@yahoogroups.com, threelees1@a... wrote:
              >
              > Sir:
              >
              > About 10 or so days ago I enrolled as a member of knottyers. I
              followed the
              > instructions to the letter, yet when I bring up my yahoo groups
              it says that
              > I am not a member of any group. Also, I am still unable to open
              any of the
              > members areas of the group. Cany you help me, or do you know
              anybody else
              > that can.
              >
              > Thank you,
              >
              > Walter Seltzer
              >
              >

              Walter -- I replyed by e-mail as well... Here is a copy in case
              anyone else has the same questions... Ed


              threelees1,

              Here is what I see...


              threelees1@... has not accessed the group web site. The email
              message below includes instructions on how to access the site with a
              Yahoo! ID.


              Are you sure that you've joined with a Yahoo! ID?

              Ed


              =======================

              To: threelees1@...
              From: knottyers-owner@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Access the knottyers web features!

              You are currently an email member of the Yahoo! Group knottyers.
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              Moderator, knottyers
              =====================
            • craftkasa
              ... difference on what side the working end of the bowline ends up on, as in the inside of the bight or the outside of the bight? i read this message a week
              Message 6 of 10 , May 10, 2005
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                --- In knottyers@yahoogroups.com, Jason Butscher <Kattelson@y...> wrote:
                >
                > Fist of all HI to all.
                >
                > Now the two questions that I have for you all are, is there any
                difference on what side the working end of the bowline ends up on, as
                in the inside of the bight or the outside of the bight?

                i read this message a week ago and gave it some tought and review. i
                tied the bowline both ways and applied stress in several directions.
                what my data showed is that the line, when tied to the inside of the
                looloop (normal) supplies more friction and surface contact with the
                working end of the rope and was generally more stable. i also found
                that both knots were more stable though less pretty with the ends were
                tied down to the loop.

                and the second one is there any knot tying groups in the NYC area that
                would allow me to attend to learn how to splice braided rope, mostly i
                want to learn the eye spice.

                ive tied several of these etye splices now and did so using des
                pawson's handbook. it helped alot to sieze the starting point with
                electrical tape until you got tucks started.

                i know it sounds geeky but i love rope....keep tying
                steve
                >
                > Thanks,
                > Jason
                >
                > __________________________________________________
                > Do You Yahoo!?
                > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                > http://mail.yahoo.com
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Hugo
                Steve, You have confirmed the information found in ABOK (a good basis for study of knots). Clifford does a good job of referancing knots such as the bowline
                Message 7 of 10 , May 11, 2005
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                  Steve,
                  You have confirmed the information found in ABOK (a good basis for
                  study of knots). Clifford does a good job of referancing knots such
                  as the bowline for alternate uses, even different cultures. I don't
                  have the relative referances at hand right now but there is one thing
                  I've done over the years is to make copies of knots as time and
                  recources become available. The bowline is one of the most frequent
                  knots discussed, including the various ""quick"" methods of tying
                  it.
                  Hugo


                  --- In knottyers@yahoogroups.com, "craftkasa" <craftkasa@y...> wrote:
                  > --- In knottyers@yahoogroups.com, Jason Butscher <Kattelson@y...>
                  wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Fist of all HI to all.
                  > >
                  > > Now the two questions that I have for you all are, is there any
                  > difference on what side the working end of the bowline ends up on,
                  as
                  > in the inside of the bight or the outside of the bight?
                  >
                  > i read this message a week ago and gave it some tought and review.
                  i
                  > tied the bowline both ways and applied stress in several
                  directions.
                  > what my data showed is that the line, when tied to the inside of
                  the
                  > looloop (normal) supplies more friction and surface contact with
                  the
                  > working end of the rope and was generally more stable. i also found
                  > that both knots were more stable though less pretty with the ends
                  were
                  > tied down to the loop.
                  >
                  > and the second one is there any knot tying groups in the NYC area
                  that
                  > would allow me to attend to learn how to splice braided rope,
                  mostly i
                  > want to learn the eye spice.
                  >
                  > ive tied several of these etye splices now and did so using des
                  > pawson's handbook. it helped alot to sieze the starting point with
                  > electrical tape until you got tucks started.
                  >
                  > i know it sounds geeky but i love rope....keep tying
                  > steve
                  > >
                  > > Thanks,
                  > > Jason
                  > >
                  > > __________________________________________________
                  > > Do You Yahoo!?
                  > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                  > > http://mail.yahoo.com
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • dgtlcwby
                  Hello Again Everyone, I have known about the bowlines for quite awhile. In the Navy, as a Boatswain s Mate, I have always referred to them as Right-Handed
                  Message 8 of 10 , May 12, 2005
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                    Hello Again Everyone,

                    I have known about the bowlines for quite awhile. In the Navy, as a
                    Boatswain's Mate, I have always referred to them as "Right-Handed"
                    or "Left-Handed" bowlines. RH refers to any regular bowline that
                    has the bitter end inside of the knot. LH refers to any regular
                    bowline that has the bitter end on the outside.

                    One of the OLD Navy manuals for knots listed the percentages for the
                    two types of knots. The RH bowline maintained 63% of the lines
                    breaking strength, while the LH bowline maintained only 49% of the
                    lines breaking strength. It is also one of the recommended simple
                    knots for synthetic line.

                    I always use the RH bowline when I need one. It is stronger.

                    Marvin


                    --- In knottyers@yahoogroups.com, "craftkasa" <craftkasa@y...> wrote:
                    > --- In knottyers@yahoogroups.com, Jason Butscher <Kattelson@y...>
                    wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Fist of all HI to all.
                    > >
                    > > Now the two questions that I have for you all are, is there any
                    > difference on what side the working end of the bowline ends up on,
                    as
                    > in the inside of the bight or the outside of the bight?
                    >
                    > i read this message a week ago and gave it some tought and review.
                    i
                    > tied the bowline both ways and applied stress in several
                    directions.
                    > what my data showed is that the line, when tied to the inside of
                    the
                    > looloop (normal) supplies more friction and surface contact with
                    the
                    > working end of the rope and was generally more stable. i also
                    found
                    > that both knots were more stable though less pretty with the ends
                    were
                    > tied down to the loop.
                    >
                    > and the second one is there any knot tying groups in the NYC area
                    that
                    > would allow me to attend to learn how to splice braided rope,
                    mostly i
                    > want to learn the eye spice.
                    >
                    > ive tied several of these etye splices now and did so using des
                    > pawson's handbook. it helped alot to sieze the starting point with
                    > electrical tape until you got tucks started.
                    >
                    > i know it sounds geeky but i love rope....keep tying
                    > steve
                    > >
                    > > Thanks,
                    > > Jason
                    > >
                    > > __________________________________________________
                    > > Do You Yahoo!?
                    > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                    > > http://mail.yahoo.com
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Hugo
                    Marvin, About the synthetic line for use with the bowline must be used with the benefit of experience because there are a couple of synthetic line materials
                    Message 9 of 10 , May 12, 2005
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                      Marvin,
                      About the synthetic line for use with the bowline must be used with
                      the benefit of experience because there are a couple of synthetic
                      line materials that will slip/unravel big-time with the bowline. I
                      certainly agree that's it's usually the choice knot for quick simple
                      tying.
                      Thanks,
                      Hugo

                      --- In knottyers@yahoogroups.com, "dgtlcwby" <dgtlcwby@y...> wrote:
                      > Hello Again Everyone,
                      >
                      > I have known about the bowlines for quite awhile. In the Navy, as
                      a
                      > Boatswain's Mate, I have always referred to them as "Right-Handed"
                      > or "Left-Handed" bowlines. RH refers to any regular bowline that
                      > has the bitter end inside of the knot. LH refers to any regular
                      > bowline that has the bitter end on the outside.
                      >
                      > One of the OLD Navy manuals for knots listed the percentages for
                      the
                      > two types of knots. The RH bowline maintained 63% of the lines
                      > breaking strength, while the LH bowline maintained only 49% of the
                      > lines breaking strength. It is also one of the recommended simple
                      > knots for synthetic line.
                      >
                      > I always use the RH bowline when I need one. It is stronger.
                      >
                      > Marvin
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In knottyers@yahoogroups.com, "craftkasa" <craftkasa@y...>
                      wrote:
                      > > --- In knottyers@yahoogroups.com, Jason Butscher <Kattelson@y...>
                      > wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Fist of all HI to all.
                      > > >
                      > > > Now the two questions that I have for you all are, is there any
                      > > difference on what side the working end of the bowline ends up
                      on,
                      > as
                      > > in the inside of the bight or the outside of the bight?
                      > >
                      > > i read this message a week ago and gave it some tought and
                      review.
                      > i
                      > > tied the bowline both ways and applied stress in several
                      > directions.
                      > > what my data showed is that the line, when tied to the inside of
                      > the
                      > > looloop (normal) supplies more friction and surface contact with
                      > the
                      > > working end of the rope and was generally more stable. i also
                      > found
                      > > that both knots were more stable though less pretty with the ends
                      > were
                      > > tied down to the loop.
                      > >
                      > > and the second one is there any knot tying groups in the NYC area
                      > that
                      > > would allow me to attend to learn how to splice braided rope,
                      > mostly i
                      > > want to learn the eye spice.
                      > >
                      > > ive tied several of these etye splices now and did so using des
                      > > pawson's handbook. it helped alot to sieze the starting point
                      with
                      > > electrical tape until you got tucks started.
                      > >
                      > > i know it sounds geeky but i love rope....keep tying
                      > > steve
                      > > >
                      > > > Thanks,
                      > > > Jason
                      > > >
                      > > > __________________________________________________
                      > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                      > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                      > > > http://mail.yahoo.com
                      > > >
                      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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