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  • knitswap@yahoogroups.com
    Updated 3/31/06 You are subscribed to the KnitSwap mailing list. You may post offerings to swap or sell knitting, spinning, weaving, and crochet related
    Message 1 of 160 , Jan 1, 2008
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      Updated 3/31/06

      You are subscribed to the KnitSwap mailing list. You may post offerings to swap or sell knitting, spinning, weaving, and crochet related things.
      Alas, I have learned that I must address the following subjects from the start, as the problems they can cause takes too much of my time.

      General Rules

      1. Do NOT advertise eBay or other auctions. Do not post items here that are also currently offered on any auction site. You may post items offered here on an auction site no sooner than 10 days after they were offered here.

      2. Do NOT solicit readers to bid for your items. If you want an auction, go to an auction site.

      3. Courtesy: Please read this list of rules all the way through to the bottom! Please also read all ads on the list � all the way through to the bottom BEFORE sending that email ordering something. If you email saying you want an item, assuming that you can use your credit card, the seller will set it aside and turn away other buyers. If you then read the whole ad, or the sellers response to your email, and see that she (or he) DOESN'T take credit cards -- don't back out of the deal! You're costing the seller money! (Ignoring that you've cost the seller time and aggravation).

      4. Basic rules about Posts:
      a. EVERY POST must include specific items for specific prices unless you're offering something up for swap.

      b. Posts may NOT invite others to email for lists of goodies or for prices. If you have a list -- post it here. Posts may not serve only to invite readers to your webpage.

      c. You may post ONCE per day offering items for sale or swap. Such posts need not be limited to one item, but the moderators will delay or delete multiple posts. IF (and only if) you're offering a very large number of items, you may break this up into several posts based on offering type (e.g. ten books in one post, 15 yarns or yarn groupings in another). You're more likely to get a response if your lists aren't extremely long -- but do consider posting one a day anyway.

      d. You may post as often as necessary to advise the list that things have been sold. However, if you have a lot of items, you may want to save the list as a file, and update the file as things are sold. People who are interested in items listed previously can check your file.

      e. All parties in any transaction have the right to know each other's real names (full names) before any money or goods are sent. To that end, you must include your full name in your posting when offering goods for sale or swap.



      5. Guidelines for Buyers: Buyers, please keep these things in mind: Most of the people offering goodies on this list are individuals selling from their stash. They are NOT businesses. This means a number of things:

      a. Sellers don't have shipping rooms or piles of boxes always on hand to ship things -- it may take a day or so to round up the box (and if they have to buy boxes just to ship to you, they've got the right to charge you for them (as long as they're clear that's what they're doing).

      b. Sellers still don't have shipping rooms; UPS doesn't pick up as a matter of course. They have to make special trips to the post office. It may take several days to make that fit into their lives. Be patient.

      c. Sellers are NOT likely to accept credit cards unless they do enough online selling to warrant PAYING FOR the ability to do so. The vendor pays to accept credit cards. Even those who take pay*pal don't automatically take credit funded payments (take me for example). When you're gearing up to buy -- assume you've got to get a check, money-order, cashier's check or cash funded pay*pal. If you are also offered a credit card option (or credit funded pay*pal), think of it as a bonus - and do not be offended if the seller asks you to share in (or bear all of) the service fees that the seller has to pay to make it possible for you to use your credit card.

      d. Sellers may not be willing to ship outside of the Continental U.S. (but should clearly say so in their ad if that is the case).

      e. You should assume that all sellers will follow the list policy re timely payment � if you wait too long, the seller WILL put the item back up.

      f. When you're negotiating for an expensive order or item, please be sure that you can afford the item BEFORE putting the seller through a bunch of hoops. If you're writing about a knitting machine, be sure you know the price (and maybe price of shipping), and that you can AFFORD it, before you start asking all sorts of details about the machine. If you ask all this stuff and then say you can't afford the machine, you've wasted the seller's time.... and may well have given the seller enough reason to suspect you're a serious buyer that she or he may have delayed or rejected a real buyer.

      g. EVERYTHING international takes more time. Cashing international money orders takes more time. Shipping internationally takes A LOT MORE TIME (often WEEKS!) If you want prompt delivery, be prepared to pay in the tens of dollars for shipping even small items. If you're not willing to pay $40.00 to ship the goodies -- be prepared to wait 6-8 weeks for heavy packages.


      6. Sellers� Expectations: Sellers, it is VERY important that you make your expectations clear about several things:

      a. If you do not want to ship outside the U.S., please say so clearly in the post in which you list your offerings. If you will ship to some non-U.S. locales but not others, please identify the places to which you will not ship.

      b. If you do not accept credit cards � say so. If you DO accept credit cards � say so! Even though we know that this is a list for private folks, some folks do have ways to accept credit cards.


      c. Feel free to establish a policy for how long you�ll wait to receive confirmation that a person will buy something and/or for how long you�ll wait to receive payment. MAKE THAT POLICY CLEAR! But -- also be sure to email your buyer with a warning before you re-list an item for failure to pay. Give the person a reasonable chance to respond to the email (1-2 business days)

      d. If you've invited inquiries by offering something for sale (or swap), then have the courtesy to answer EVERY email inquiring about the item you listed. Feel free to sell to the first person who responds; but politely tell all the rest that the item has been sold. If you feel that you're likely to get tons of inquiries, feel free to post to the list at large that "the position has been filled" as it were, once you've sold it. But please, do not leave people wondering whether you've even gotten their offer to buy what you offered to sell. In addition to being rude, it's likely to deter those people from offering to buy next time.

      7. A request to buy/swap does not create a "contract" with the other side until that side has expressed consent.

      8. PAY PROMPTLY! Once an agreement is made, prompt payment or shipment is expected. If you delay more than a week without contact to the other party, he or she should feel free to offer it to another person, or to the list. He or she may also offer it on an auction site. If you say you're going to mail a check -- you should also email your seller to tell her (or him ) THE DAY you mail the check to say that it's on it's way. You cannot complain that someone sells/swaps something "out from under you" if you took a month to send the check/money order etc. Nor can you complain if you delayed sending it and didn't email that it was en route.

      9. Do not solicit business for your LYS, online shop or site, or personal business. If you are a shop owner, feel free to put up specific offerings, (for example, items in your clearance bins or sale bins) BUT you MUST be sure to identify these offerings as items on sale or clearance from your shop, and identify the name of the shop. You can certainly swap personally, but please, don't follow up with your swap buddies by sending catalogs or solicitous emails unless you KNOW that they are actively wanted. This list may not be used for spamming.

      10. SAY THANK YOU! to your swap buddies: Let your buyers know when the money arrives. Let the sellers know when the goodies arrive. You are also strongly encouraged to send feedback to the SwapFeedback list on every swap or transaction. Send feedback to swapfeedback@... and put the feedback recipient's NAME in the subject line.


      11. If you have any problems with swaps or sales with members of this list, give a reasonable attempt at resolving it yourself. If you cannot do that, please contact me. I will endeavor to facilitate a resolution, and if none can be found, will invite you to post negative feedback and the swapfeedback list. (Note, negative feedback may ONLY be posted with my approval). Where possible, I will edit your feedback with additional comments explaining both sides of the story. If you're contacting me about an INTERNATIONAL swap or sale .. please tell me at the outset which country both parties are in!

      12. Do not post a problem to the whole list until the list mom has had a chance to prod the "offending" party. Give the list mom at least 7 days to get this done (she has a life too).

      13. If you post to the feedback list about a problem (after giving the list mom some time to help resolve it), when it's resolved YOU MUST POST THAT IT HAS BEEN RESOLVED! It's grossly unfair to let 1,000 people know that there's a delay, without letting them know that the person about whom you complained came through. Think about how you'd feel if it was you! (If something bad happens in your household, your life gets in disarray, and you forget things. If people complain, you're branded as a bad person or at least a high risk swapper. If you come through, but the people don't say so... you carry that brand for a long time, even if our feedback rating stays positive!)

      14. If you receive prodding from the list mom(s), please respond ASAP. She's not trying to harass you; she's trying to help both you and the other swapper in the deal.

      15. Regardless of the side you're on in a dispute: Do not "yell" at the list mom for any reason. Do not take out your anger or frustration with the other party on your list mom. She is a mediator, not a party to the dispute. Threatening others with reporting them to me is unacceptable behavior. If you have not been able to work things out, contact me. Do not (I repeat do NOT) tell the other party that if they don't do what you want you'll turn them in to me. If I learn of such behavior, that alone will earn one of you a negative feedback point (either the threatener, or the reporter of the threats if I am convinced that the report is false). [I can't believe I've had to say this!]

      16. People with excessive negative feedback will be banned from the list.

      17. When working out a deal for a large quantity of yarn or other items, it is a good idea to send a detailed list of the items sent/expected. This avoids the possibility that the two parties have differing expectations, and thus avoids disappointment. It is also a good idea to check the other party's feedback before sending money.

      18. Please! DO NOT post to the list asking others to violate Federal copyright laws by making COPIES of patterns for you. Do not post to the list offering copies of patterns, unless you wrote the original. Copying patterns for any purpose other than to have one to carry with you and mark on while the original stays safe at home, is illegal. If you have questions, please see the many webpages on copyright for knitters.

      19. Life happens to the best of us. Life creates delays.

      a. If you're a seller, and life happened to you -- EMAIL your buyers! If the life that happened was a computer crash -- get to anywhere that you can get on the net, and post to the list that you've had a crash, and will send out when you've been able to fix/get the data etc.

      b. If you're the buyer, and life happened to you -- email your seller! Explain the delay in payment -- offer the Seller the option of waiting for your money or reposting the item. If life happened to you in a way that some necessity just ate the money for your goodies -- say so ASAP! Some sellers are happy to wait until your next paycheck; other sellers can't wait until your next paycheck -- they're selling because life happened to them, and they need the money to pay rent.

      20. Above all COMMUNICATE! Politely, responsible, early, and often.

      21. Do not post conversations, chat, requests for prayers, whines about the post office or your LYS, solicitations for advice on which pattern to use for a given yarn (or vice versa). Please also restrict your sig lines to those without political or religious comments, statements, etc. (I get email about them, and then get cranky).

      22. Again (shocked that I even have to say this) the list mom does not guarantee anything about any transaction you choose to enter with anyone who uses this list. I am not a party to any contract between any two or more of you, and the fact that you have chosen to use this list does not create a contract between you and me (or my co-moderators).

      Whew. I hope I never have to add another point! However, having gotten that out of the way, we can now get on with the fun!

      I hope you enjoy the list! Please share your feedback with the fedback list (swapfeedback@yahoogroups.com) - even if your swap originated elsewhere./
      Thanks,
      Helen, the List Mom
    • knitswap@yahoogroups.com
      Updated 2/07/08 Please read these FAQ s all the way through. You are subscribed to the KnitSwap mailing list. You may post offerings to swap or sell knitting,
      Message 160 of 160 , Apr 1 5:36 AM
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        Updated 2/07/08

        Please read these FAQ's all the way through.

        You are subscribed to the KnitSwap mailing list. You may post offerings to swap or sell knitting, spinning, weaving, and crochet related things.

        Alas, I have learned that I must address the following subjects from the start, as the problems they can cause takes too much of my time. This is a fully moderated list, and we do verify that posts to the list comply with these guidelines.

        General Rules

        1. Do NOT advertise eBay or other auctions. Do not post items here that are also currently offered on any auction site. You may post items originally offered here on an auction site no sooner than 10 days after they were offered here.

        2. Do NOT solicit readers to bid for your items. If you want an auction, go to an auction site. (This means no "best offer" posts).

        3. Courtesy: Please read this list of rules all the way through to the bottom! Please also read the posts on the list all the way through to the bottom BEFORE you send an email ordering something. If you email saying you want an item, assuming that you can use your credit card, the seller will set it aside and turn away other buyers. If you then read the whole ad, or the sellers response to your email, and see that she (or he) DOESN'T take credit cards -- don't back out of the deal! You're costing the seller money! (Ignoring that you've cost the seller time and aggravation, and that you've set yourself up for disappointment).

        4. Basic rules about Posts:
        a. EVERY POST must include specific items for specific prices unless you're offering something up for swap.

        b. Posts may NOT invite others to email for lists of goodies or for prices. If you have a list -- post it here.

        c. Posts may not serve only to invite readers to your webpage or site. You may include a link to your site at the end of the post (in your sigline), or to give readers access to photos of the items you're listing. But you may not advertise your business or your site without listing items that can be purchased directly through KnitSwap (and thus email replies to your post).

        d. You may post ONCE per day offering items for sale or swap. Such posts need not be limited to one item, but the moderators will delay or delete multiple posts. IF (and only if) you're offering a very large number of items, you may break this up into several posts based on offering type (e.g. ten books in one post, 15 yarns or yarn groupings in another). You're more likely to get a response if your lists aren't extremely long -- but do consider posting one a day anyway.

        e. You may post as often as necessary to advise the list that things have been sold. However, if you have a lot of items, you may want to save the list as a file, and update the file as things are sold. People who are interested in items listed previously can check your file.

        f. All parties in any transaction have the right to know each other's real names (full names) before any money or goods are sent. To that end, you must include your full name in your posting when offering goods for sale or swap.


        g. If you have limitations as to where you will ship, how you will ship, or what kinds of payments you can take -- PLEASE post that information in your listing post:
        i If you are unwilling to ship outside the continental United States
        (or whatever country you live in) please make that plain in your
        listing. A number of our international members have asked that any
        such notifications be placed at or near the TOP of the post so that
        people living outside your approved shipping zone can avoid getting
        all excited, only to have their hopes dashed -- making for sad
        KnitSwappers.

        ii. If you are unwilling to accept credit cards, or accept only CASH
        FUNDED pay pal, or accept cashiers' checks and money orders but not
        personal checks, please be sure to identify these restrictions in
        your posts so that people unable or unwilling to meet those terms
        do not waste your time (or theirs) negotiating for a deal that
        cannot come to fruition.

        h. If you intend to charge the buyer for shipping costs above and beyond the actual postage paid, be sure to say so. You do have the right to charge for a box if you have to buy one -- but ONLY if you've warned the buyer that you intend to do this! (Saying, for example, "buyer to pay actual shipping costs, including, where necessary, boxes or other shipping containers" is sufficient).

        5. Guidelines for Buyers: Buyers, please keep these things in mind: Most of the people offering goodies on this list are individuals selling from their stash. They are NOT businesses. This means a number of things:

        a. Sellers don't have shipping rooms or piles of boxes always on hand to ship things -- it may take a day or so to round up the box (and if they have to buy boxes just to ship to you, they've got the right to charge you for them (as long as they're clear that's what they're doing).

        b. Sellers still don't have shipping rooms; UPS doesn't pick up as a matter of course. They have to make special trips to the post office. It may take several days to make that fit into their lives. Be patient.

        c. Sellers are NOT likely to accept credit cards unless they do enough online selling to warrant PAYING FOR the ability to do so. The vendor pays to accept credit cards. Even those who take pay*pal don't automatically take credit funded payments (take me for example). When you're gearing up to buy -- assume you've got to get a check, money-order, cashier's check or cash funded pay*pal. If you are also offered a credit card option (or credit funded pay*pal), think of it as a bonus - and do not be offended if the seller asks you to share in (or bear all of) the service fees that the seller has to pay to make it possible for you to use your credit card.

        d. Sellers may not be willing to ship outside of the Continental U.S. (but should clearly say so in their ad if that is the case). Sellers may also be unwilling to ship outside of Canada -- or whatever other country they live in. Sellers may be happy to ship anywhere, but you should not assume that they live in the same country you do.

        e. You should assume that all sellers will follow the list policy re timely payment � if you wait too long, the seller WILL put the item back up.

        f. When you're negotiating for an expensive order or item, please be sure that you can afford the item BEFORE putting the seller through a bunch of hoops. If you're writing about a knitting machine, be sure you know the price (and maybe price of shipping), and that you can AFFORD it, before you start asking all sorts of details about the machine. If you ask all this stuff and then say you can't afford the machine, you've wasted the seller's time.... and may well have given the seller enough reason to suspect you're a serious buyer that she or he may have delayed or rejected a real buyer.

        g. EVERYTHING international takes more time. Cashing international money orders takes more time. Shipping internationally takes A LOT MORE TIME (often WEEKS!) If you want prompt delivery, be prepared to pay in the tens of dollars for shipping even small items. If you're not willing to pay $40.00 to ship the goodies -- be prepared to wait 6-8 weeks for heavy packages.


        6. Sellers� Expectations: Sellers, it is VERY important that you make your expectations clear about several things:

        a. If you do not want to ship outside the U.S., please say so clearly in the post in which you list your offerings. If you will ship to some non-U.S. locales but not others, please identify the places to which you will not ship.

        b. If you do not accept credit cards � say so. If you DO accept credit cards � say so! Even though we know that this is a list for private folks, some folks do have ways to accept credit cards.


        c. Feel free to establish a policy for how long you�ll wait to receive confirmation that a person will buy something and/or for how long you�ll wait to receive payment. MAKE THAT POLICY CLEAR! But -- also be sure to email your buyer with a warning before you re-list an item for failure to pay. Give the person a reasonable chance to respond to the email (1-2 business days)

        d. If you've invited inquiries by offering something for sale (or swap), then have the courtesy to answer EVERY email inquiring about the item you listed. Feel free to sell to the first person who responds; but politely tell all the rest that the item has been sold. If you feel that you're likely to get tons of inquiries, feel free to post to the list at large that "the position has been filled" as it were, once you've sold it. But please, do not leave people wondering whether you've even gotten their offer to buy what you offered to sell. In addition to being rude, it's likely to deter those people from offering to buy next time.

        7. A request to buy/swap does not create a "contract" with the other side until that side has expressed consent. Thus, you do not have a deal until the offering person confirms that you have a deal. If you change any element, you don't have a deal until the other side accepts that change.

        8. PAY PROMPTLY! Once an agreement is made, prompt payment or shipment is expected. If you delay more than a week without contact to the other party, he or she should feel free to offer it to another person, or to the list. He or she may also offer it on an auction site. If you say you're going to mail a check -- you should also email your seller to tell her (or him ) THE DAY you mail the check to say that it's on it's way. You cannot complain that someone sells/swaps something "out from under you" if you took a month to send the check/money order etc. Nor can you complain if you delayed sending it and didn't email that it was en route.

        9. Do not solicit business for your LYS, online shop or site, or personal business. If you are a shop owner, feel free to put up specific offerings, (for example, items in your clearance bins or sale bins) BUT you MUST be sure to identify these offerings as items on sale or clearance from your shop, and identify the name of the shop. You can certainly swap personally, but please, don't follow up with your swap buddies by sending catalogs or solicitous emails unless you KNOW that they are actively wanted. This list may not be used for spamming.

        10. SAY THANK YOU! to your swap buddies: Let your buyers know when the money arrives. Let the sellers know when the goodies arrive. You are also strongly encouraged to send feedback to the SwapFeedback list on every swap or transaction. Send feedback to swapfeedback@... and put the feedback recipient's NAME in the subject line.


        11. If you have any problems with swaps or sales with members of this list, give a reasonable attempt at resolving it yourself. If you cannot do that, please contact me. I will endeavor to facilitate a resolution, and if none can be found, will invite you to post negative feedback and the swapfeedback list. (Note, negative feedback may ONLY be posted with my approval). Where possible, I will edit your feedback with additional comments explaining both sides of the story. If you're contacting me about an INTERNATIONAL swap or sale .. please tell me at the outset which country both parties are in!

        12. Do not post a problem to the whole list until the list mom has had a chance to prod the "offending" party. Give the list mom at least 7 days to get this done (she has a life too).

        13. If you post to the feedback list about a problem (after giving the list mom some time to help resolve it), when it's resolved YOU MUST POST THAT IT HAS BEEN RESOLVED! It's grossly unfair to let 1,000 people know that there's a delay, without letting them know that the person about whom you complained came through. Think about how you'd feel if it was you! (If something bad happens in your household, your life gets in disarray, and you forget things. If people complain, you're branded as a bad person or at least a high risk swapper. If you come through, but the people don't say so... you carry that brand for a long time, even if our feedback rating stays positive!)

        14. If you receive prodding from the list mom(s), please respond ASAP. She's not trying to harass you; she's trying to help both you and the other swapper in the deal.

        15. Regardless of the side you're on in a dispute: Do not "yell" at the list mom for any reason. Do not take out your anger or frustration with the other party on your list mom. She is a mediator, not a party to the dispute. Threatening others with reporting them to me is unacceptable behavior. If you have not been able to work things out, contact me. Do not (I repeat do NOT) tell the other party that if they don't do what you want you'll turn them in to me. If I learn of such behavior, that alone will earn one of you a negative feedback point (either the threatener, or the reporter of the threats if I am convinced that the report is false). [I can't believe I've had to say this!]

        16. People receiving excessive negative feedback will be banned from the list.

        17. When working out a deal for a large quantity of yarn or other items, it is a good idea to send a detailed list of the items sent/expected. This avoids the possibility that the two parties have differing expectations, and thus avoids disappointment. It is also a good idea to check the other party's feedback before sending money.

        18. Please! DO NOT post to the list asking others to violate Federal copyright laws by making COPIES of patterns for you. Do not post to the list offering copies of patterns, unless you wrote the original. Copying patterns for any purpose other than to have one to carry with you and mark on while the original stays safe at home, is illegal. If you have questions, please see the many webpages on copyright for knitters.

        19. Life happens to the best of us. Life creates delays.

        a. If you're a seller, and life happened to you -- EMAIL your buyers! If the life that happened was a computer crash -- get to anywhere that you can get on the net, and post to the list that you've had a crash, and will send out when you've been able to fix/get the data etc.

        b. If you're the buyer, and life happened to you -- email your seller! Explain the delay in payment -- offer the Seller the option of waiting for your money or reposting the item. If life happened to you in a way that some necessity just ate the money for your goodies -- say so ASAP! Some sellers are happy to wait until your next paycheck; other sellers can't wait until your next paycheck -- they're selling because life happened to them, and they need the money to pay rent.

        c. If life has happened an you're hospitalized...see if there isn't someone who can email the list to let folks know.

        20. Above all COMMUNICATE! Politely, responsible, early, and often.

        21. Do not post conversations, chat, requests for prayers, whines about the post office or your LYS, solicitations for advice on which pattern to use for a given yarn (or vice versa). Please also restrict your sig lines to those without political or religious comments, statements, etc. (I get email about them, and then get cranky).

        22. Again (shocked that I even have to say this) the list mom does not guarantee anything about any transaction you choose to enter with anyone who uses this list. I am not a party to any contract between any two or more of you, and the fact that you have chosen to use this list does not create a contract between you and me (or my co-moderators).

        Whew. I hope I never have to add another point! However, having gotten that out of the way, we can now get on with the fun!

        I hope you enjoy the list! Please share your feedback with the feedback list (swapfeedback@yahoogroups.com) - even if your swap originated elsewhere./
        Thanks,
        Helen, the List Mom
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