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Re: One-stitch pattern uploaded - initial analysis

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  • mikezcnc
    I see that you are very advance in your project. I looked into forth several times and it is a very powerful language. I never understood why wasn t it picked
    Message 1 of 5 , Nov 30, 2004
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      I see that you are very advance in your project. I looked into forth
      several times and it is a very powerful language. I never understood
      why wasn't it picked up over C, but now I recall it was because of
      documenting; forth is difficult to read if the programmer did not
      include comments.

      I wrote couple of emails to different places and gor responce form
      one that they are looking into helping us out. We'll see.

      Mike

      --- In kminternals@yahoogroups.com, "John R. Hogerhuis" <jhoger@p...>
      wrote:
      > On Tue, 2004-11-30 at 06:42, mikezcnc wrote:
      > > It is a very interesting way of poking into the code and you've
      got
      > > great results.
      >
      > Reverse engineering is a lot like science. You gather data (like I
      did
      > in this case), form hypotheses, and gather more data to test/verify
      the
      > hypothesis.
      >
      > > From what you are saying, you are using linux-is there
      > > a reason for it other than personal interest?
      >
      > Well freedom is the #1 reason. Linux is not under monopoly control
      and I
      > can change or fix any of the software because all of the source
      code is
      > available.
      >
      > But generally I run only Linux on my network because it is a
      malleable,
      > secure, powerful OS and thousands of high quality Free Software
      programs
      > are available for download at places like SourceForge.net and
      > Freshmeat.net. I run the Debian GNU/Linux distribution on all moy
      boxes.
      >
      > Furthermore there is no knitting software for these machines that
      runs
      > under Linux. So any work I do on this platform could be picked up by
      > someone else.
      >
      > I can run Windows stuff, and I do professional Windows development,
      but
      > I run it on W2K under VmWare.
      >
      > > How are you getting
      > > code-by connecting a FB100 to a PC and taking it from there.
      > Well I have a laptop with two serial ports (one is a USB<->Serial
      > adapter). One is connected via null modem adapter + Tandy Portable
      Disk
      > Drive (TPDD) cable to the km. The other is connected via TPDD cable
      to
      > the Brother FB100 disk drive.
      >
      > I have a 'snooper' serial analyzer program that I run. It just
      passes
      > traffic between the two ports and lets me view the data. I can save
      logs
      > of that, but they are ASCII text.
      >
      > So to write the data I run
      >
      > snooper -b9600 /dev/ttyS0 /dev/ttyUSB0
      >
      > I have written a little bit of Forth code that lets me do a read of
      the
      > data just as the KM would.
      >
      > So to read the data I run gforth test.fs and once at the prompt I
      type
      > READ-SECTOR. This runs a Forth script that reads the sector and
      writes
      > it out to disk as a binary file.
      >
      > I'll post this code soon just in case someone finds it useful.
      >
      > To really make this work though you need at least one TPDD or DAK
      cable
      > and a KM.
      >
      > I think there is a version of gforth for Windows. If not my test
      code
      > could be adapted to any modern Forth interpreter.
      >
      > > Does
      > > FB100 have any controls on it or is just that, an FDD. If so then
      how
      > > do you get data out of it? Just curious about your test bed.
      >
      > Just a FDD. I write commands to it over its serial link and read
      them
      > via the serial link. These are fairly odd disk drives in that they
      have
      > a serial interface rather than a parallel type of interface.
      >
      > >
      > > Have you considered using Tandy 100 and Basic interface to use as
      a
      > > controller, since FDD connects to Tandy, as you have found out?
      >
      > Yes some of my testing has been to use a Tandy 102 with short BASIC
      > programs to try things out.
      >
      > >
      > > I was thinking of using a logic analyzer on the knitter I/O.
      > >
      >
      > Yep. In fact you could hook it to the processor bus and watch all
      the
      > instructions and we could actually trace execution that way.
      >
      > But for the serial port I'd suggest using a hardware serial protocol
      > analyzer or a laptop with two serial ports and serial protocol
      analyzer
      > software as I do. Otherwise you'll waste a lot of time setting up a
      > logic analyzer to trace a serial link.
      >
      > -- John.
    • John R. Hogerhuis
      ... Well I have a setup for analysis, that s about it. If anyone can think of good experiments to do, let me know and I ll report the results. ... I mostly
      Message 2 of 5 , Nov 30, 2004
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        On Tue, 2004-11-30 at 10:46, mikezcnc wrote:
        > I see that you are very advance in your project.

        Well I have a setup for analysis, that's about it. If anyone can think
        of good experiments to do, let me know and I'll report the results.

        > I looked into forth
        > several times and it is a very powerful language. I never understood
        > why wasn't it picked up over C, but now I recall it was because of
        > documenting; forth is difficult to read if the programmer did not
        > include comments.

        I mostly just use Forth for prototyping. Basically forth "words" can be
        stacked like Legos. You end up making a lot of very simple words that
        can be strung together at the interpreter prompt to do more complex
        stuff. So it's very useful for interactively trying things out, in order
        to get a feel for the protocol or hardware you are dealing with.

        It is probably more useful in embedded systems contexts, particularly on
        constrained systems (8 or 16 bit CPUs or microcontrollers with very
        little RAM).

        I tend to rewrite the final application in C.

        >
        > I wrote couple of emails to different places and gor responce form
        > one that they are looking into helping us out. We'll see.

        Cool! Keep us apprised.

        -- John.
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