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Giving a new brain to KH brother knitting machine

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  • Mar Canet
    Hi all, Yesterday, hackaday featured the project that we have been working on for some months: http://knitic.com . Our idea is to have an open hardware
    Message 1 of 14 , Mar 27, 2013
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      Hi all, 

      Yesterday, hackaday featured the project that we have been working on for some months: http://knitic.com . Our idea is to have an open hardware knitting machine base on brother knitting machine design.

      It is still not 100% usable, we are in testing period but hopefully soon there with a new brain 100% open hardware and software.

      Happy to listen your feedbacks.

      Mar Canet
    • ILIA KADASHEVICH
      Hi Mar ! greate idea (always want to start the same project, but...) i have kh900 with dead mainboard, so hope to join your project in coming months ) It is
      Message 2 of 14 , Mar 27, 2013
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        Hi Mar !
        greate idea (always want to start the same project, but...)
        i have kh900 with dead mainboard,
        so hope to join your project in coming months )

        It is also interesting to try to  upgrade with your mainbord machines like KH910.
        Best wishes, Ilja

        Gesendet: Mittwoch, 27. März 2013 um 15:18 Uhr
        Von: "Mar Canet" <mar.canet@...>
        An: kminternals@yahoogroups.com
        Betreff: [kminternals] Giving a new brain to KH brother knitting machine


        Hi all, 

        Yesterday, hackaday featured the project that we have been working on for some months: http://knitic.com . Our idea is to have an open hardware knitting machine base on brother knitting machine design.

        It is still not 100% usable, we are in testing period but hopefully soon there with a new brain 100% open hardware and software.

        Happy to listen your feedbacks.

        Mar Canet



      • Sally
        Hi Mar, I saw that knitic is on the MakerFaire UK stands list. I am looking forward to taking a look at your machine and comparing notes :-) Sally Kentfield
        Message 3 of 14 , Mar 27, 2013
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          Hi Mar,

          I saw that knitic is on the MakerFaire UK stands list. I am looking forward to taking a look at your machine and comparing notes :-)

          Sally Kentfield
          "Bitmap Machine Knitting" stand

          --- In kminternals@yahoogroups.com, Mar Canet <mar.canet@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi all,
          >
          > Yesterday, hackaday featured the project that we have been working on for
          > some months: http://knitic.com . Our idea is to have an open hardware
          > knitting machine base on brother knitting machine design.
          >
          > http://hackaday.com/2013/03/26/giving-a-cnc-knitting-machine-a-new-brain
          >
          > It is still not 100% usable, we are in testing period but hopefully soon
          > there with a new brain 100% open hardware and software.
          >
          > Happy to listen your feedbacks.
          >
          > Mar Canet
          > http://mcanet.info
          >
        • Mar Canet
          Yes, sure 910 it is in out list to add compatibility. Sent from my iPhone ... Yes, sure 910 it is in out list to add compatibility. Sent from my iPhone On 27
          Message 4 of 14 , Mar 27, 2013
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            Yes, sure 910 it is in out list to add compatibility.

            Sent from my iPhone

            On 27 Mar 2013, at 20:26, "ILIA KADASHEVICH" <kadash@...> wrote:

             

            Hi Mar !
            greate idea (always want to start the same project, but...)
            i have kh900 with dead mainboard,
            so hope to join your project in coming months )

            It is also interesting to try to  upgrade with your mainbord machines like KH910.
            Best wishes, Ilja

            Gesendet: Mittwoch, 27. März 2013 um 15:18 Uhr
            Von: "Mar Canet" <mar.canet@...>
            An: kminternals@yahoogroups.com
            Betreff: [kminternals] Giving a new brain to KH brother knitting machine


            Hi all, 

            Yesterday, hackaday featured the project that we have been working on for some months: http://knitic.com . Our idea is to have an open hardware knitting machine base on brother knitting machine design.

            It is still not 100% usable, we are in testing period but hopefully soon there with a new brain 100% open hardware and software.

            Happy to listen your feedbacks.

            Mar Canet



          • Mar Canet
            Could you send us pictures when you have freetime of the internals of the kh910 and kh900? That will be useful. Sent from my iPhone ... Could you send us
            Message 5 of 14 , Mar 27, 2013
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              Could you send us pictures when you have freetime of the internals of the kh910 and kh900? That will be useful.

              Sent from my iPhone

              On 27 Mar 2013, at 20:26, "ILIA KADASHEVICH" <kadash@...> wrote:

               

              Hi Mar !
              greate idea (always want to start the same project, but...)
              i have kh900 with dead mainboard,
              so hope to join your project in coming months )

              It is also interesting to try to  upgrade with your mainbord machines like KH910.
              Best wishes, Ilja

              Gesendet: Mittwoch, 27. März 2013 um 15:18 Uhr
              Von: "Mar Canet" <mar.canet@...>
              An: kminternals@yahoogroups.com
              Betreff: [kminternals] Giving a new brain to KH brother knitting machine


              Hi all, 

              Yesterday, hackaday featured the project that we have been working on for some months: http://knitic.com . Our idea is to have an open hardware knitting machine base on brother knitting machine design.

              It is still not 100% usable, we are in testing period but hopefully soon there with a new brain 100% open hardware and software.

              Happy to listen your feedbacks.

              Mar Canet



            • Steve Conklin
              Mar, This is fantastic! I ve been hoping someone would take this step. Can I help? Do you need someone to do board layout and such? Steve
              Message 6 of 14 , Mar 27, 2013
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                Mar,

                This is fantastic! I've been hoping someone would take this step.

                Can I help? Do you need someone to do board layout and such?

                Steve


                On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 9:18 AM, Mar Canet <mar.canet@...> wrote:
                 

                Hi all, 

                Yesterday, hackaday featured the project that we have been working on for some months: http://knitic.com . Our idea is to have an open hardware knitting machine base on brother knitting machine design.

                It is still not 100% usable, we are in testing period but hopefully soon there with a new brain 100% open hardware and software.

                Happy to listen your feedbacks.

                Mar Canet


              • t
                Mar, This is very exciting work! I ll be eagerly watching your developments. Tanya
                Message 7 of 14 , Mar 27, 2013
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                  Mar,

                  This is very exciting work! I'll be eagerly watching your developments.

                  Tanya
                  --- In kminternals@yahoogroups.com, Mar Canet <mar.canet@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi all,
                  >
                  > Yesterday, hackaday featured the project that we have been working on for
                  > some months: http://knitic.com . Our idea is to have an open hardware
                  > knitting machine base on brother knitting machine design.
                  >
                  > http://hackaday.com/2013/03/26/giving-a-cnc-knitting-machine-a-new-brain
                  >
                  > It is still not 100% usable, we are in testing period but hopefully soon
                  > there with a new brain 100% open hardware and software.
                  >
                  > Happy to listen your feedbacks.
                  >
                  > Mar Canet
                  > http://mcanet.info
                  >
                • Mar Canet
                  Hi Steve, We happy you like it. You did a incredible job with python emulation for passing patterns to brothers machines. We are more than happy to talk and
                  Message 8 of 14 , Mar 27, 2013
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                    Hi Steve, 

                    We happy you like it. You did a incredible job with python emulation for passing patterns to brothers machines. We are more than happy to talk and see in which area do you think would like to help. 

                    Now the working version it is with Arduino-due, but maybe we could fixed to work mega or normal Arduino. We started with leonardo and mega but we had some speed problems during development and we changed to due. But maybe ones we have working 100% in due could look again if something can be improve for get speed working in Arduino 16hz (mega and Leonardo and older). Leonardo style Arduino will need use of shift registers and this adds a extra time consumption in the process cycle.

                    We have several versions of board layouts made with Frizing (http://fritzing.org/). And also we working in modeling for 3D print the plastic in the area of knitting brain to fit new Arduino base brain and replace the old one.


                    Mar & Varvara



                    On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 1:22 AM, Steve Conklin <steve@...> wrote:
                     

                    Mar,

                    This is fantastic! I've been hoping someone would take this step.

                    Can I help? Do you need someone to do board layout and such?

                    Steve


                    On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 9:18 AM, Mar Canet <mar.canet@...> wrote:
                     

                    Hi all, 

                    Yesterday, hackaday featured the project that we have been working on for some months: http://knitic.com . Our idea is to have an open hardware knitting machine base on brother knitting machine design.

                    It is still not 100% usable, we are in testing period but hopefully soon there with a new brain 100% open hardware and software.

                    Happy to listen your feedbacks.

                    Mar Canet



                  • theotherterry
                    Hi Mar, I ve been interested in your project since I saw the previous posting here a few weeks ago. This is something I ve had in the back of my mind for
                    Message 9 of 14 , Mar 27, 2013
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                      Hi Mar,

                      I've been interested in your project since I saw the previous posting here a few weeks ago. This is something I've had in the back of my mind for several years. I have a KH910 sitting in a closet and I've just never made the time to dust it off and dig into its internals.

                      I just downloaded your Arduino code to take a look at it and I see a few changes which might make significant differences in the performance, even on the older Arduinos. I need to look in more detail, but will be more than happy to share any ideas with you.

                      I don't know how much detail is appropriate for this list, so feel free to contact me offlist.

                      ____
                      Terry

                      --- In kminternals@yahoogroups.com, Mar Canet <mar.canet@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi all,
                      >
                      > Yesterday, hackaday featured the project that we have been working on for
                      > some months: http://knitic.com . Our idea is to have an open hardware
                      > knitting machine base on brother knitting machine design.
                      >
                      > http://hackaday.com/2013/03/26/giving-a-cnc-knitting-machine-a-new-brain
                      >
                      > It is still not 100% usable, we are in testing period but hopefully soon
                      > there with a new brain 100% open hardware and software.
                      >
                      > Happy to listen your feedbacks.
                      >
                      > Mar Canet
                      > http://mcanet.info
                      >
                    • Mar Canet
                      Hi Terry, Nice to hear from you! We can talk by email. But you send me a push request via github of the improvements and I will take a look and test it. Mar
                      Message 10 of 14 , Mar 27, 2013
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                        Hi Terry,

                        Nice to hear from you! We can talk by email. But you send me a push request via github of the improvements and I will take a look and test it.

                        Mar


                        On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 2:58 AM, theotherterry <tcrook@...> wrote:
                         

                        Hi Mar,

                        I've been interested in your project since I saw the previous posting here a few weeks ago. This is something I've had in the back of my mind for several years. I have a KH910 sitting in a closet and I've just never made the time to dust it off and dig into its internals.

                        I just downloaded your Arduino code to take a look at it and I see a few changes which might make significant differences in the performance, even on the older Arduinos. I need to look in more detail, but will be more than happy to share any ideas with you.

                        I don't know how much detail is appropriate for this list, so feel free to contact me offlist.

                        ____
                        Terry



                        --- In kminternals@yahoogroups.com, Mar Canet <mar.canet@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hi all,
                        >
                        > Yesterday, hackaday featured the project that we have been working on for
                        > some months: http://knitic.com . Our idea is to have an open hardware
                        > knitting machine base on brother knitting machine design.
                        >
                        > http://hackaday.com/2013/03/26/giving-a-cnc-knitting-machine-a-new-brain
                        >
                        > It is still not 100% usable, we are in testing period but hopefully soon
                        > there with a new brain 100% open hardware and software.
                        >
                        > Happy to listen your feedbacks.
                        >
                        > Mar Canet
                        > http://mcanet.info
                        >


                      • andyleith
                        http://blog.knitterstream.com/ this is a passap/arduino hack it seems all of the machines work on the same basic principal computer driving a solenoid. Is
                        Message 11 of 14 , Mar 28, 2013
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                          http://blog.knitterstream.com/
                          this is a passap/arduino hack it seems all of the machines work on the same basic principal computer driving a solenoid. Is there an overlap with soft ware???


                          --- In kminternals@yahoogroups.com, Mar Canet <mar.canet@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hi all,
                          >
                          > Yesterday, hackaday featured the project that we have been working on for
                          > some months: http://knitic.com . Our idea is to have an open hardware
                          > knitting machine base on brother knitting machine design.
                          >
                          > http://hackaday.com/2013/03/26/giving-a-cnc-knitting-machine-a-new-brain
                          >
                          > It is still not 100% usable, we are in testing period but hopefully soon
                          > there with a new brain 100% open hardware and software.
                          >
                          > Happy to listen your feedbacks.
                          >
                          > Mar Canet
                          > http://mcanet.info
                          >
                        • Mar Canet
                          Hi, Well, we don t have a passap. But I read in their blog that seems they just send cut file through serial with a software call Win_Crea and some python
                          Message 12 of 14 , Mar 28, 2013
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                            Hi,

                            Well, we don't have a passap. But I read in their blog that seems they
                            just send cut file through serial with a software call Win_Crea and
                            some python script. Strange enought both links are broken:
                            http://blog.knitterstream.com/tag/passape6000




                            On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 3:21 PM, andyleith <andyleith@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > http://blog.knitterstream.com/
                            > this is a passap/arduino hack it seems all of the machines work on the same basic principal computer driving a solenoid. Is there an overlap with soft ware???
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In kminternals@yahoogroups.com, Mar Canet <mar.canet@...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Hi all,
                            > >
                            > > Yesterday, hackaday featured the project that we have been working on for
                            > > some months: http://knitic.com . Our idea is to have an open hardware
                            > > knitting machine base on brother knitting machine design.
                            > >
                            > > http://hackaday.com/2013/03/26/giving-a-cnc-knitting-machine-a-new-brain
                            > >
                            > > It is still not 100% usable, we are in testing period but hopefully soon
                            > > there with a new brain 100% open hardware and software.
                            > >
                            > > Happy to listen your feedbacks.
                            > >
                            > > Mar Canet
                            > > http://mcanet.info
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                          • John R. Hogerhuis
                            ... List traffic is generally pretty low... it s about knitting machine hacking... let s call it on-topic :-) -- John.
                            Message 13 of 14 , Mar 28, 2013
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                              On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 6:58 PM, theotherterry <tcrook@...> wrote:


                              I don't know how much detail is appropriate for this list, so feel free to contact me offlist.


                              List traffic is generally pretty low... it's about knitting machine hacking... let's call it on-topic :-)

                              -- John. 
                            • theotherterry
                              Thanks, John. Here s what I understand so far. My apologies in advance for the verbosity, but this is a bit complex. If anyone has any better understanding
                              Message 14 of 14 , Apr 9, 2013
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                                Thanks, John.

                                Here's what I understand so far. My apologies in advance for the verbosity, but this is a bit complex. If anyone has any better understanding of this and can offer clarification or correction, I welcome the feedback. At this point, I'm leaving out some of the finer details -- I'm trying for a more conceptual description for now. If anyone wants the details, I have some of them. Most of this I've gleaned from the Brother KH930 Service Manual Steve Conklin put up on github, and from studying Mar Canet's code.

                                The Brother (and KnitKing) electronic machines all (as far as I've seen) appear to use the same basic patterning mechanism consisting of a bank of 16 solenoids and cams and associated linkages which act in concert with the carriage to set the needles into either the B or D position in preparation for the next row.

                                The carriage is synchronized to the selection mechanism through a perforated metal belt. The carriage engages this belt and drives the mechanism inside the bed of the machine. The belt has a series of slots spaced 8 needle-spaces (36mm) apart, and the carriage can engage any of these slots.

                                The belt drives a series of 16 rotary cams arrayed adjacent to the solenoids. If a solenoid is energized at the appropriate time, the needle under the carriage at that point will be left in the B position. If the solenoid is not energized, the needle will be left in the D position.

                                When the carriage is moved onto the bed from either end, it passes a hall-effect sensor which detects the proximity of a magnet embedded in the carriage. This "end-sensor" tells the computer when the carriage is passing onto the end of the bed. The magnetic polarity can also tell the computer what kind of carriage is in use, as the "K", "L", and "G" carriages have different arrangements of magnets.

                                Since there is a carriage-engagement slot every 8 needles, and the solenoids control 16 needles, there are two engagement slots for every 16 needles. The computer needs to know which of these two slots has been engaged so it can energize the correct solenoids. An optical encoder connected to the rotary camshaft has two states, call them ON and OFF. The state of this encoder as the carriage passes an end-sensor tells the computer which engagement slot has captured the carriage. This is called "belt phase" in the service manuals. Its only purpose appears to be to establish which subgroup of 8 solenoids is aligned with the first needle.

                                As the carriage is moved across the bed, the computer needs to know which needle it is passing over. The rotary camshaft also has a quadrature encoder which makes one complete cycle for each needle-space. By determining the starting point from the end-sensors and counting these cycles, the computer can determine the exact position of the carriage. The decoding of the quadrature encoder is simplified by the fact that the computer does not need to know each stage of the cycle, it really is only interested in one stage, and the direction of movement.

                                As long as the carriage remains engaged, the needle position can be determined by counting encoder cycles, so the end-sensors need only be monitored when the carriage has been removed from the bed or moved off either end.

                                Now here's what I don't know yet, or at least what I know I don't know. I am assuming that as soon as the carriage passes over a given needle, the corresponding solenoid should be energized. When energized, the solenoid actuates a cam-follower and prevents it from engaging with its cam. The question is, how long should that solenoid remain energized to prevent this cam engagement? Is it enough to energize it for one needle-time, or does it need to be energized longer? I believe that one needle is enough, but I'm not sure.

                                Thank you all for your time, and for any enlightenment you can offer.

                                ____
                                Terry
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