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Re: Saving in brother format on floppy disk

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  • mikezcnc
    I agree. Look here: http://tinyurl.com/6hskf http://tinyurl.com/7yo9d Except for it is for an embroidery machine. About DAK like program: it onsists of two
    Message 1 of 8 , Nov 29, 2004
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      I agree. Look here:
      http://tinyurl.com/6hskf
      http://tinyurl.com/7yo9d

      Except for it is for an embroidery machine.

      About DAK like program: it onsists of two parts, one is a design
      package, that takes colors, shapes, styles into consideration to
      calculate a control file for the machine. The second part of the
      program is the data trasfer protocol and file.

      I am interested in downloading the data from a PC to a machine and/or
      possibly data from the machine to a PC for a modification within a PC.

      I understand that it is very difficult to write a program to output a
      control file for the machine according to a requirement, a certain
      type of a sweater. But it cannot be that difficukt to send the data

      from a PC to the machine and vice versa. What kind of data is a
      different matter at this time.
      John, do you know how many motors are in a knitter and if they are
      steppers or servos?

      Are there any other control variables, like solenoids, counters,
      relays?

      Mike



      --- In kminternals@yahoogroups.com, "John R. Hogerhuis" <jhoger@p...>
      wrote:
      > On Mon, 2004-11-29 at 15:03, mikezcnc wrote:
      > > Questions to a dealer of DAK went unanswered, questinos to DAK
      are
      > > probably also in a queue.
      > >
      >
      > Well I wouldn't hold my breath. They probably consider any
      information
      > about data formats, etc. their proprietary trade secret and won't
      give
      > it out.
      >
      > Your best bet if you just want general information about DAK is to
      ask
      > questions about the product to a sales rep and don't mention
      kminternals
      > or this project.
      >
      > My $.02 anyway...
      >
      > -- John.
    • John R. Hogerhuis
      ... Yeah my Mom has an embroidery sewing machine that can take these proprietary oddball flash cards, probably the same kind. The data format for these
      Message 2 of 8 , Nov 29, 2004
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        On Mon, 2004-11-29 at 15:50, mikezcnc wrote:
        > I agree. Look here:
        > http://tinyurl.com/6hskf
        > http://tinyurl.com/7yo9d
        >
        > Except for it is for an embroidery machine.

        Yeah my Mom has an embroidery sewing machine that can take these
        proprietary oddball flash cards, probably the same kind.

        The data format for these machines has already been reverse engineered,
        and there is actually a related SourceForge free software project.

        http://embroidermodder.sourceforge.net/

        I found this on the web, I include it here only to give a feeling for
        what I want to figure out for the Brother 930 KM (this is actually for
        an embroidery KSM file format):

        Structure of a KSM (Pfaff professional) design file :

        (all values given in HEX)


        Design data starts at 200 Hex = Byte 512 dec.

        Three bytes per stitch, data is stored unsigned while signing of
        x- and y-
        coordinates is done by two bits in Byte three

        typical standard stitches :

        Hex values : Binary equivalent:
        Explanation (dec)

        NNNN 0F 02 80 00001111 00000010 10000000 y+15 , x+2
        NNNN 0A 06 C0 00001010 00000110 11000000 y+10 , x-6
        NNNN 03 7F A0 00000011 01111111 10100000 y-3 , x+127
        NNNN 20 13 E0 00100000 00010011 11100000 y-32 , x-19

        Bytes 1 and 2 of each stitch hold the unsigned stitch length,
        bit 7 of byte
        three is ALWAYS set, bit 6 tells you y is negative, while bit 5
        negates x.

        Color changes:

        NNNN 03 08 99 00000011 00001000 10011001 y+3 , x+8
        color change

        Bits 0,3,4 of byte 3 set tell you this is a color change record.




        Back to KM's though:

        >
        > About DAK like program: it onsists of two parts, one is a design
        > package, that takes colors, shapes, styles into consideration to
        > calculate a control file for the machine. The second part of the
        > program is the data trasfer protocol and file.
        >
        > I am interested in downloading the data from a PC to a machine and/or
        > possibly data from the machine to a PC for a modification within a PC.
        >
        > I understand that it is very difficult to write a program to output a
        > control file for the machine according to a requirement, a certain
        > type of a sweater. But it cannot be that difficukt to send the data
        >
        > from a PC to the machine and vice versa. What kind of data is a
        > different matter at this time.
        > John, do you know how many motors are in a knitter and if they are
        > steppers or servos?

        Don't know much about the km hardware (yet), and at the moment my
        interest is confined to the data format. I'm a programmer so I probably
        have my own limit as to how helpful I can be there in any event, but
        certainly your questions are on-topic for this list, and I hope someone
        following along can help you.

        Although Brother km's are "machines" they have a strong manual
        intervention component. If you're looking to seriously automate things
        there is a hard limit to what you can do unless you are adding motors
        and replacing the control panel with your own circuit board connected to
        a PC.

        Brother km's are hobbyist devices, and aren't really intended to be
        completely automated.

        -- John.
      • mikezcnc
        Great info. Once I get the machine I will be able to tell what can be done with it. I am surprised that the knitting machine market is not developed more,
        Message 3 of 8 , Nov 29, 2004
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          Great info. Once I get the machine I will be able to tell what can be
          done with it. I am surprised that the knitting machine market is not
          developed more, relative to CNC market, although I am thankful for
          DAK. Your comment that KH-940 requires a high human intervention tell
          me that maybe I don't need the program and cable for a long time
          because if there are 555 Brother designed patterns stored in ROM
          then maybe it is practical to use them rather than getting into
          making my own designs.

          I also know that there is a Garter accessiry that automates teh
          machine. Mike








          --- In kminternals@yahoogroups.com, "John R. Hogerhuis" <jhoger@p...>
          wrote:
          > On Mon, 2004-11-29 at 15:50, mikezcnc wrote:
          > > I agree. Look here:
          > > http://tinyurl.com/6hskf
          > > http://tinyurl.com/7yo9d
          > >
          > > Except for it is for an embroidery machine.
          >
          > Yeah my Mom has an embroidery sewing machine that can take these
          > proprietary oddball flash cards, probably the same kind.
          >
          > The data format for these machines has already been reverse
          engineered,
          > and there is actually a related SourceForge free software project.
          >
          > http://embroidermodder.sourceforge.net/
          >
          > I found this on the web, I include it here only to give a feeling
          for
          > what I want to figure out for the Brother 930 KM (this is actually
          for
          > an embroidery KSM file format):
          >
          > Structure of a KSM (Pfaff professional) design file :
          >
          > (all values given in HEX)
          >
          >
          > Design data starts at 200 Hex = Byte 512 dec.
          >
          > Three bytes per stitch, data is stored unsigned while
          signing of
          > x- and y-
          > coordinates is done by two bits in Byte three
          >
          > typical standard stitches :
          >
          > Hex values : Binary equivalent:

          > Explanation (dec)
          >
          > NNNN 0F 02 80 00001111 00000010 10000000
          y+15 , x+2
          > NNNN 0A 06 C0 00001010 00000110 11000000
          y+10 , x-6
          > NNNN 03 7F A0 00000011 01111111 10100000 y-3 , x+127
          > NNNN 20 13 E0 00100000 00010011 11100000 y-32 , x-19
          >
          > Bytes 1 and 2 of each stitch hold the unsigned stitch
          length,
          > bit 7 of byte
          > three is ALWAYS set, bit 6 tells you y is negative, while
          bit 5
          > negates x.
          >
          > Color changes:
          >
          > NNNN 03 08 99 00000011 00001000 10011001 y+3 , x+8
          >
          color change
          >
          > Bits 0,3,4 of byte 3 set tell you this is a color change
          record.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Back to KM's though:
          >
          > >
          > > About DAK like program: it onsists of two parts, one is a design
          > > package, that takes colors, shapes, styles into consideration to
          > > calculate a control file for the machine. The second part of the
          > > program is the data trasfer protocol and file.
          > >
          > > I am interested in downloading the data from a PC to a machine
          and/or
          > > possibly data from the machine to a PC for a modification within
          a PC.
          > >
          > > I understand that it is very difficult to write a program to
          output a
          > > control file for the machine according to a requirement, a
          certain
          > > type of a sweater. But it cannot be that difficukt to send the
          data
          > >
          > > from a PC to the machine and vice versa. What kind of data is a
          > > different matter at this time.
          > > John, do you know how many motors are in a knitter and if they
          are
          > > steppers or servos?
          >
          > Don't know much about the km hardware (yet), and at the moment my
          > interest is confined to the data format. I'm a programmer so I
          probably
          > have my own limit as to how helpful I can be there in any event, but
          > certainly your questions are on-topic for this list, and I hope
          someone
          > following along can help you.
          >
          > Although Brother km's are "machines" they have a strong manual
          > intervention component. If you're looking to seriously automate
          things
          > there is a hard limit to what you can do unless you are adding
          motors
          > and replacing the control panel with your own circuit board
          connected to
          > a PC.
          >
          > Brother km's are hobbyist devices, and aren't really intended to be
          > completely automated.
          >
          > -- John.
        • John R. Hogerhuis
          ... Actually you can enter patterns completely from the control panel if you re really desperate, no PPD or FDD required. If someone were interested an a more
          Message 4 of 8 , Nov 29, 2004
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            On Mon, 2004-11-29 at 16:59, mikezcnc wrote:
            > Great info. Once I get the machine I will be able to tell what can be
            > done with it. I am surprised that the knitting machine market is not
            > developed more, relative to CNC market, although I am thankful for
            > DAK. Your comment that KH-940 requires a high human intervention tell
            > me that maybe I don't need the program and cable for a long time
            > because if there are 555 Brother designed patterns stored in ROM
            > then maybe it is practical to use them rather than getting into
            > making my own designs.
            >
            > I also know that there is a Garter accessiry that automates teh
            > machine. Mike


            Actually you can enter patterns completely from the control panel if
            you're really desperate, no PPD or FDD required.

            If someone were interested an a more difficult project, it might be
            interesting to reverse engineer the PPD. It has its own processor in it,
            I don't know what kind. Some Yamaha chip. Maybe it is a z80 workalike or
            something.

            Conceivably one could add some code to the M.E.S.S emulator to emulate
            this machine. Get the ROM and you could turn any computer into a PDD.
            Probably the machine is simple enough to even emulate directly on a Palm
            PDA.

            -- John.
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