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Electronics on KH970 CB1

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  • CobiCreations
    Hi Kevin and Steve especially...as I am hoping that maybe you can help me. I purchased a KH970 awhile back from a dealer to use with DAK as my KH930 as you
    Message 1 of 3 , Apr 11 5:21 AM
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      Hi Kevin and Steve especially...as I am hoping that maybe you can help me. I purchased a KH970 awhile back from a dealer to use with DAK as my KH930 as you know, would not take a full large pattern. I am a 60 year old that knows little about computers, other than how to navigate for my specific design programs for machine embroidery, and DAK, and of course I can navigate internet sites. I also am dyslexic, so after months of trying all sorts of "solution suggestions" from repair folks, none have worked. It will load the patterns that are already in the machine, but NOT from the FB100 or from the DAK program with the correct cable. The message get is that the cables are not connected, but they are. I bought pin protectors, as tow repair folks thought it might be the pins. I bought a new cable as someone suggested my cable might be bad (yet it loads to the KH930). I bought several books (I am dyslexic, but not as challenged as some are) and the detailed explanations I followed the best I can, to no avail.

      After 3 more days of frustration (again) doing all the steps over and over again with the manuals and books,(done this more times than I care to remember) I still got the same messages on the CB1 unit, so again called repair folks I know of, and one gentleman informed me that it is a problem with the mother board, that unlike the K930 mother board,(which I did replace a couple of years ago myself) that completely shuts down, the KH970 board may fail in one area, and not another, which is why I never suspected the CB1 units board, since I could bring up a pattern from the ones already in the machine. I have spent including for the machine itself which was $1,500.00 about $1,900 to try to get a solution to upload to the machine failures. Now the gentleman also told me that often once one portion of that mother board fails, it may or may not completely fail. He also indicated that there is "no fix" for the board, as there are no replacements available.

      I am so disappointed, as the whole purpose of purchasing this machine was to be able to upload my own designs from DAK in one step. I am not home much (drive an 18 wheeler) so time is very precious as I knit on the machines almost non-stop for charity as well as trying to develop a small business for the future, and all my Christmas gifts to friends and family. To be honest, tis machine frustration has driven me to tears, as I kept thinking it was "operator error", as the knitting groups I asked for help in all suggested that it was me, not he machine. Without the capability of the CB1 to work properly, and the fear of it failing entirely, and no "help in site from a repair", I am just "undone", as to get this machine to begin with I sold a Husqvarna/Viking Designer 1 very reluctantly to be able to pay for it. Is there any hope you can offer? At this point I have only made one baby blanket from the designs already in the machine, and each time I do get home, I try again to no avail. I read your post, and realize you are light years ahead of what my brain can understand, being of the generation that came very late to computers, combined with the dyslexia that goes into full throttle as my brain tries to read and understand technology beyond my comprehension, though I try! Any help and advice would be greatly appreciated! TIA, Blessings, Cobi
    • Steve Conklin
      Cobi (and list), Sorry to take so long to respond - First my disclaimers - I know nothing about the KH970, but am basing this upon what I know about the KH930
      Message 2 of 3 , Apr 16 6:39 AM
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        Cobi (and list),

        Sorry to take so long to respond -

        First my disclaimers - I know nothing about the KH970, but am basing
        this upon what I know about the KH930 and technology of that era.

        If the following is difficult to follow, please email me directly, and
        I'd be happy to discuss this with you on the phone.

        The short version is that your machine might be repairable in the
        hands of someone with some electronics knowledge. These machines are
        so hard to ship without damage, or I'd offer to look at it for you.
        Where are you located? (no need to be too specific) Maybe we can find
        someone near you with the right skills to help you.

        The electronics on those those machines are built using a low level of
        integration and generic through-hole parts. In basic terms, this
        means:

        0. They are often repairable
        1. There are a lot of parts on the board
        2. The parts are generally common devices and still available, with
        some exceptions
        3. It's not uncommon to have failures which result in loss of one area
        of functionality (floppy disk connection, for example)
        4. In the CMOS chips used in that era, common failures include damage
        due to static electricity, which commonly happens on chips connected
        to external connectors like the floppy connector.
        5. With some time and electronics knowledge, it's often possible to
        find and fix these problems.

        Since the machine knits using internal patterns, we know that the
        internal microprocessor and the control electronics work. This is
        good, because it means that most of the parts which are likely to be
        "impossible to replace" are working.

        I think it's probable that your machine has a failure in the chip(s)
        which connect to the floppy drive connector. For someone with skill in
        electronics, it might be possible to diagnose and repair this. If it
        were me and it were my machine, I'd open the machine and try it, but -
        it's not my machine, and I'm pretty experienced and comfortable with
        these things.

        As I recall from the KH-930, the chip connected to the floppy drive
        was a simple 4xxx series CMOS logic part, a hex inverter or quad NAND
        or something like that. These are very easy to get.

        If it were my machine, here are the steps I'd take:

        1. Take anti-static procedures - work on a conductive mat or even a
        piece of anti-static packing foam. Wear a grounding bracelet connected
        to the mat, and connect the knitting machine frame to the mat.

        2. Remove the cover and examine the board with the floppy connector.
        Figure out which chip the traces from the connector connect to, and
        sketch out the pinout of that connector and label everything.

        3. (If possible) Connect the floppy drive and power up the machine and
        the drive. Using an oscilloscope, check the signals at the inputs and
        outputs of the logic gates on that chip, and try to verify that one of
        them is not working as it should. Try to observe it when attempting to
        save a pattern, etc. Continue diagnosis, hopefully until a bad part is
        found.

        4. Order a replacement part. If the original part is a 4000 series
        CMOS part, it will have a number like CD4009 or CD4012. If the
        original part has no suffix or an 'A' suffix, then death due to static
        electricity was almost certainly the problem - the original A series
        parts were very susceptible. You will replace it with a B series part,
        as that's all that's available now - it will work fine.

        5. Note the orientation of the old part. One end will have a notch, or
        perhaps a molded dot on the corner. If the PC board isn't marked, you
        can make a mark with a marker near that end. Be sure to put the new
        part in the same way.

        Carefully remove the bad part and replace it. If you don't have
        desoldering equipment, then with through-hole Dual-Inline packages
        (which this probably uses) the best way to do this without risk to the
        board is to clip each lead close to the chip using a small pair of
        flush cutters, and remove the chip body. Then using hemostats heat and
        remove each pin. Now remove the excess solder from each hole. This is
        really the step which is most likely to cause damage to the board,
        which may be hard to repair. There are several ways to do this and
        it's a topic unto itself, so here's a web page which does a good job
        of discussing it: http://www.aaroncake.net/electronics/desolder.htm

        6. Install the new part and solder it in place.

        7. Test the knitting machine, and put it back together. If it doesn't
        work, keep troubleshooting.

        This sounds daunting, but it shouldn't be more than a few hours work,
        even at a relaxed pace (not counting ordering the part). The
        electronics in these machines is actually more repairable than a lot
        of recent electronics, but it takes some time.

        I hope this is helpful,

        Steve
      • Kevin Blain
        Cobi, Steve, et al. My findings over the weekend were that the KH970 / CB1 use a slightly different set of rules for talking to the FB100 as per the 930, for
        Message 3 of 3 , Apr 16 9:15 AM
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          Cobi, Steve, et al.

          My findings over the weekend were that the KH970 / CB1 use a slightly different set of rules for talking to the FB100 as per the 930, for example.

          I need to document more fully, as a lot of ground was covered last weekend...

          The CB-1 / KH970 will not talk to Steve's software as-is - I do not know specifically about DesignAKnit, so cannot comment. It should be perfectly ok at talking to the FB100 though.

          As Steve says, you most likely have a perfectly repairable fault - though the 970 I suspect will have a bit more surface mount in than what Steve has seen in the 930 - I think we're on about circa 1994 now. I'm in the UK, so I'm not in a useful position to be able to offer repair services either. You need to find / make an electronics geek friend, and buy them some beer....

          If it comes to it, I would happily buy the CB-1 module from you though, if it you ever decide it's unservicable, I may be able to learn some more from it, and fix it, but nothing I can do in the short term. Of course you then end up with having no machine.

          Kevin


          On 16 April 2012 14:39, Steve Conklin <steve@...> wrote:
           

          Cobi (and list),

          Sorry to take so long to respond -

          First my disclaimers - I know nothing about the KH970, but am basing
          this upon what I know about the KH930 and technology of that era.

          If the following is difficult to follow, please email me directly, and
          I'd be happy to discuss this with you on the phone.

          The short version is that your machine might be repairable in the
          hands of someone with some electronics knowledge. These machines are
          so hard to ship without damage, or I'd offer to look at it for you.
          Where are you located? (no need to be too specific) Maybe we can find
          someone near you with the right skills to help you.

          The electronics on those those machines are built using a low level of
          integration and generic through-hole parts. In basic terms, this
          means:

          0. They are often repairable
          1. There are a lot of parts on the board
          2. The parts are generally common devices and still available, with
          some exceptions
          3. It's not uncommon to have failures which result in loss of one area
          of functionality (floppy disk connection, for example)
          4. In the CMOS chips used in that era, common failures include damage
          due to static electricity, which commonly happens on chips connected
          to external connectors like the floppy connector.
          5. With some time and electronics knowledge, it's often possible to
          find and fix these problems.

          Since the machine knits using internal patterns, we know that the
          internal microprocessor and the control electronics work. This is
          good, because it means that most of the parts which are likely to be
          "impossible to replace" are working.

          I think it's probable that your machine has a failure in the chip(s)
          which connect to the floppy drive connector. For someone with skill in
          electronics, it might be possible to diagnose and repair this. If it
          were me and it were my machine, I'd open the machine and try it, but -
          it's not my machine, and I'm pretty experienced and comfortable with
          these things.

          As I recall from the KH-930, the chip connected to the floppy drive
          was a simple 4xxx series CMOS logic part, a hex inverter or quad NAND
          or something like that. These are very easy to get.

          If it were my machine, here are the steps I'd take:

          1. Take anti-static procedures - work on a conductive mat or even a
          piece of anti-static packing foam. Wear a grounding bracelet connected
          to the mat, and connect the knitting machine frame to the mat.

          2. Remove the cover and examine the board with the floppy connector.
          Figure out which chip the traces from the connector connect to, and
          sketch out the pinout of that connector and label everything.

          3. (If possible) Connect the floppy drive and power up the machine and
          the drive. Using an oscilloscope, check the signals at the inputs and
          outputs of the logic gates on that chip, and try to verify that one of
          them is not working as it should. Try to observe it when attempting to
          save a pattern, etc. Continue diagnosis, hopefully until a bad part is
          found.

          4. Order a replacement part. If the original part is a 4000 series
          CMOS part, it will have a number like CD4009 or CD4012. If the
          original part has no suffix or an 'A' suffix, then death due to static
          electricity was almost certainly the problem - the original A series
          parts were very susceptible. You will replace it with a B series part,
          as that's all that's available now - it will work fine.

          5. Note the orientation of the old part. One end will have a notch, or
          perhaps a molded dot on the corner. If the PC board isn't marked, you
          can make a mark with a marker near that end. Be sure to put the new
          part in the same way.

          Carefully remove the bad part and replace it. If you don't have
          desoldering equipment, then with through-hole Dual-Inline packages
          (which this probably uses) the best way to do this without risk to the
          board is to clip each lead close to the chip using a small pair of
          flush cutters, and remove the chip body. Then using hemostats heat and
          remove each pin. Now remove the excess solder from each hole. This is
          really the step which is most likely to cause damage to the board,
          which may be hard to repair. There are several ways to do this and
          it's a topic unto itself, so here's a web page which does a good job
          of discussing it: http://www.aaroncake.net/electronics/desolder.htm

          6. Install the new part and solder it in place.

          7. Test the knitting machine, and put it back together. If it doesn't
          work, keep troubleshooting.

          This sounds daunting, but it shouldn't be more than a few hours work,
          even at a relaxed pace (not counting ordering the part). The
          electronics in these machines is actually more repairable than a lot
          of recent electronics, but it takes some time.

          I hope this is helpful,

          Steve


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