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[ksurf] Re: Backstrap and 4-line or 3-line & bar???

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  • Paul Sexstone
    i preferr individual handles, bettter control and not much harder (some even find easier) ... From: Eric Savener [mailto:eric_savener@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday,
    Message 1 of 10 , Feb 3, 2000
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      i preferr individual handles, bettter control and not much harder (some even
      find easier)

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Eric Savener [mailto:eric_savener@...]
      Sent: Friday, 4 February 2000 15:32
      To: kitesurf@...
      Subject: [ksurf] Backstrap and 4-line or 3-line & bar???



      I need some advice one more time. I blew off the C-Quad idea and now
      I've decided on a Peter Lynn Waterfoil. It's only a little more money,
      but it is truly water relaunchable (if $$$ was no object, I think I'd
      want a Naish, but...).

      I'm 185lbs and will be flying in 10 - 20mph winds, so I've chosen the
      5.7m, but he wants to know if I "wish to fly with backstrap and quad
      line or three line and bar. If you want a bar it costs extra" (about
      $75 extra). What do you guys think will work best starting out? ...or
      do I want both?

      I've never flown a kite, but I can usually pick up new stuff like this
      pretty quickly.

      Any info./advice would be appreciated...again.

      Eric



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    • David Trewern
      personally, I think the learning curve with a bar (and harness) is a lot easier than handles and backstrap... But that s me. I have observed that it often
      Message 2 of 10 , Feb 3, 2000
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        personally, I think the learning curve with a bar (and harness) is a lot easier than handles and backstrap... But that's me.


        I have observed that it often takes a little longer for learners to be waterstarting, managing the board with one hand etc. when using handles rather than a bar.

        I have lots of friends who have learn't to fly my kite (with bar) body drag then waterstart and go 50 metres in the first afternoon.

        I don't have much experience with handles, but when I have used them (only on land!) I found balancing a lot more difficult. I think a bar provides a more rigid support for balancing.

        I also have no doubt though, that in the right hands (like Kane Hartils) there is some extra control that can come from handles.

        Also - I have windsurfed a lot, so I am biased for sure.

        I think I'd feel less comfortable with a backstrap and handles too, because you cant let go as easily if you get in deep %$@!.

        DT
         

        Eric Savener wrote:

        I need some advice one more time.  I blew off the C-Quad idea and now
        I've decided on a Peter Lynn Waterfoil.  It's only a little more money,
        but it is truly water relaunchable (if $$$ was no object, I think I'd
        want a Naish, but...).

        I'm 185lbs and will be flying in 10 - 20mph winds, so I've chosen the
        5.7m, but he wants to know if I "wish to fly with backstrap and quad
        line or three line and bar.  If you want a bar it costs extra" (about
        $75 extra).  What do you guys think will work best starting out?  ...or
        do I want both?

        I've never flown a kite, but I can usually pick up new stuff like this
        pretty quickly.

        Any info./advice would be appreciated...again.

        Eric

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      • Rainer Leuschke
        ... Hmm, I ve only gotten drug under once. That was with a harness. With the backstrap you put your arms together over your head and the strap slides ride off
        Message 3 of 10 , Feb 3, 2000
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          On Fri, 4 Feb 2000, David Trewern wrote:

          > I think I'd feel less comfortable with a backstrap and handles too, because
          > you cant let go as easily if you get in deep %$@!.

          Hmm, I've only gotten drug under once. That was with a harness. With the
          backstrap you put your arms together over your head and the strap slides
          ride off (in theory).
          R!

          -- ,--+___. oOOOOOOo
          ,/ | \ / /
          ___ / | \. Rainer Leuschke / /
          __ / | \. phone: (w) 206-685-0900 / /
          __ / 14 |\ \ (h) 206-547-8927 / /
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          U H
          U
        • Erik Fryman
          I learned to fly my C-quad with 4-lines and handles, never had a problem controlling the kite in or out of the water. I say go for 4-lines and handles and then
          Message 4 of 10 , Feb 3, 2000
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            I learned to fly my C-quad with 4-lines and handles, never had a problem
            controlling the kite in or out of the water. I say go for 4-lines and
            handles and then make or buy a bar if you want to try that.

            Erik


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Eric Savener" <eric_savener@...>
            To: <kitesurf@...>
            Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2000 9:32 PM
            Subject: [ksurf] Backstrap and 4-line or 3-line & bar???


            >
            > I need some advice one more time. I blew off the C-Quad idea and now
            > I've decided on a Peter Lynn Waterfoil. It's only a little more money,
            > but it is truly water relaunchable (if $$$ was no object, I think I'd
            > want a Naish, but...).
            >
            > I'm 185lbs and will be flying in 10 - 20mph winds, so I've chosen the
            > 5.7m, but he wants to know if I "wish to fly with backstrap and quad
            > line or three line and bar. If you want a bar it costs extra" (about
            > $75 extra). What do you guys think will work best starting out? ...or
            > do I want both?
            >
            > I've never flown a kite, but I can usually pick up new stuff like this
            > pretty quickly.
            >
            > Any info./advice would be appreciated...again.
            >
            > Eric
            >
            >
            >
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          • Ian Young
            ... That s not accurate - you can get out of a backstrap VERY quickly by doing a butterfly stroke action with your arms - more so than getting stuck on a
            Message 5 of 10 , Feb 3, 2000
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              > I think I'd feel less comfortable with a backstrap and handles too, because
              > you cant let go as easily if you get in deep %$@!.

              That's not accurate - you can get out of a backstrap VERY quickly by doing a
              "butterfly stroke" action with your arms - more so than getting stuck on a hook
              that you can'y release from. You can also depower if you have a line tethered
              to your brake lines - Phil McConachie was using this deadman release very
              successfully at Port Stephens.

              Cheers,
              Ian Young

              WinDesigns Australia - Australia's First Kite Ski&Surf School
              9 Oliver St, Scarborough, WA, AUSTRALIA, 6019
              Phone: +61 8 9245 4603
              Fax: +61 8 9245 4657
              Mobile: 0414 716 812
              Email: IanYoung@...
              Webpage: http://www.iinet.net.au/~ianyoung/
            • Greg Walsh
              For an extra $75 I d want the 4-line handles AND the bar and 3-line. It would want to be a pretty special 3-line bar to cost $75 and to have one less length of
              Message 6 of 10 , Feb 3, 2000
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                For an extra $75 I'd want the 4-line handles AND the bar and 3-line. It
                would want to be a pretty special 3-line bar to cost $75 and to have
                one less length of line (padded, sealed, floating etc)

                Otherwise, get the 4-lines and handles. You can always make up a bar
                from a piece of alumunimum tubing and some sailboard grip and use the
                lines that came with the kite. You can then make it exactly how you
                want it from a position of experience.
              • Eric Savener
                Based on what you (and others who have responded) have said, I want both. Also, I just looked at my new copy of Kite Boarding Magazine - the premier issue (my
                Message 7 of 10 , Feb 3, 2000
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                  Based on what you (and others who have responded) have said, I want
                  both. Also, I just looked at my new copy of Kite Boarding Magazine -
                  the premier issue (my roomie just came home and handed me the mail -
                  it's addressed by hand, no less). It's a no-brainer! There must be
                  over a hundred pictures in there and only one picture of a guy using
                  handles (pg. 24). I'm getting a control bar too.

                  Thanks again guys.

                  Eric

                  "greg walsh" <gregwa-@...> wrote:
                  original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/kitesurf/?start=9752
                  > For an extra $75 I'd want the 4-line handles AND the bar and 3-line.
                  It
                  > would want to be a pretty special 3-line bar to cost $75 and to have
                  > one less length of line (padded, sealed, floating etc)
                  >
                  > Otherwise, get the 4-lines and handles. You can always make up a bar
                  > from a piece of alumunimum tubing and some sailboard grip and use the
                  > lines that came with the kite. You can then make it exactly how you
                  > want it from a position of experience.
                  >
                • SeanCMurph@aol.com
                  In a message dated 2/3/2000 9:32:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, ... I like the 4-line handles and backstrap... The biggest advantage to the backstrap is that you
                  Message 8 of 10 , Feb 4, 2000
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                    In a message dated 2/3/2000 9:32:37 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                    eric_savener@... writes:

                    > fly with backstrap and quad
                    > line or three line and bar

                    I like the 4-line handles and backstrap...
                    The biggest advantage to the backstrap is that you can fly with NO hands
                    while taking care of important business -- like attaching the lease (or
                    hittin' that beer :-))

                    The position of the strap can be adjusted -- on the fly so to speak --
                    depending on what you're doing... around the shoulders to jump, around the
                    waist/buttocks for long distance comfort cruising, etc.

                    If you don't have a previous life experience that includes a bar (like
                    windsurfing) then I would avoid the extra gear and learn to fly with the
                    handles...

                    Sean
                  • SeanCMurph@aol.com
                    In a message dated 2/3/2000 9:45:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, ... I ve found that if you lift your arms above your head the strap will slip right over. I
                    Message 9 of 10 , Feb 4, 2000
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                      In a message dated 2/3/2000 9:45:16 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                      david@... writes:

                      > you cant let go as easily if you get in deep %$@!.

                      I've found that if you lift your arms above your head the strap will slip
                      right over. I think it's easier than trying to pull down on the handles to
                      release from a harness bar.

                      sean
                    • Stephen McCormack
                      Hi Matt I agree that for most foils that are quadlined, they can be flown on a bar, and it really is just an issue of what the user prefers, bar or separate
                      Message 10 of 10 , Feb 5, 2000
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                        Hi Matt

                        I agree that for most foils that are quadlined, they can be flown on a bar,
                        and it really is just an issue of what the user prefers, bar or separate
                        handles. Personally I have never come to terms with a bar, but I'm sure I
                        could if I persevered. Most windsurfers I have taught prefer the bar and
                        adapt to it very quickly, experienced power kiters usually prefer separate
                        handles.
                        Waterfoils are really a two line foil with brakes to assist landing, and
                        properly adjusted they help to prevent luffing. You should not use the
                        brakes when flying, they just cause the kite to lose power in the turns.
                        The kite was designed with bar users in mind, but the 3 line method is what
                        is recommended. I use a backstrap and separate quad handles and fly it as a
                        two line foil. We have now had 6 days of nor'easters in Sydney and I have
                        had some excellent runs with the kite I have, a 3.5sq.m..
                        I weigh approx 70kg and the kite works really well for me between 17/18
                        knots - 25/28knots and at the upper end like we had today I found going
                        upwind on my Stonker 1.95 quite easy - at last!! :-))
                        I have been trying to jump with it too, but I have found so far that I have
                        to sweep it down and back to get the lift that some other foils, c-quads,
                        and Naish Wipika's generate so easily from a high position and just sweeping
                        them back into the wind and back again to the direction you are travelling
                        to enable a powered landing.
                        I did some spectacular high speed over the front of the board splats as a
                        result today, good for the spectators though :-)))
                        Overall I like the waterfoil, but I have found that this pre - production
                        model will luff and entangle itself into an unrelaunchable mess though.This
                        has happened 3 times I think in approx 20 hours use so far and I am still
                        experimenting with how much brake to use. I hope Peter Lynn is gearing up to
                        produce a lot of them as the price will enable so many more people to have
                        access to a tough and very useable kite. Hopefully it will cause some of the
                        other foil and inflatable kite makers to examine their pricing too ;-). Cya
                        and
                        Goodwinds
                        Steve McCormack
                        www.kitepoweraustralia.com
                        kitepower@...
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Matt Dietrich <matt.dietrich@...>
                        To: <kitesurf@...>
                        Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2000 2:57 AM
                        Subject: [ksurf] Re: Backstrap and 4-line or 3-line & bar???


                        > In my opinion the best thing to fly a 4-line foil is the advance bar.
                        > You can fly with a normal windsurf harness in 4-line configuration. I
                        > think in 4-line configuration you habe the best control over the kite.
                        > The advance bar is an normal bar on the end of it you fix the normal
                        > lines also at the end of the bar there are something like powerjoints
                        > and little sticks were you can fix the brakes.
                        >
                        > "eric savener" <eric_savene-@...> wrote:
                        > original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/kitesurf/?start=9740
                        > >
                        > > I need some advice one more time. I blew off the C-Quad idea and now
                        > > I've decided on a Peter Lynn Waterfoil. It's only a little more
                        > money,
                        > > but it is truly water relaunchable (if $$$ was no object, I think I'd
                        > > want a Naish, but...).
                        > >
                        > > I'm 185lbs and will be flying in 10 - 20mph winds, so I've chosen the
                        > > 5.7m, but he wants to know if I "wish to fly with backstrap and quad
                        > > line or three line and bar. If you want a bar it costs extra" (about
                        > > $75 extra). What do you guys think will work best starting out?
                        > ...or
                        > > do I want both?
                        > >
                        > > I've never flown a kite, but I can usually pick up new stuff like this
                        > > pretty quickly.
                        > >
                        > > Any info./advice would be appreciated...again.
                        > >
                        > > Eric
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
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