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Re: [ksurf] 5th line help required

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  • Dean Crowell
    Sorry to say this but I finally gave-up on the 5th line for the same reason - There were no instructions, there was no consensus on the beach and it was just
    Message 1 of 6 , Aug 14 8:45 AM
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      Sorry to say this but I finally gave-up on the 5th line for the same
      reason - There were no instructions, there was no consensus on the
      beach and it was just getting tangled. I'm curious to know the answer
      too -
      Dean


      On Aug 14, 2007, at 8:12 AM, rockhopper25 wrote:

      > Hi guys I am a complete newby to kitesurfing I have just bought my
      > first equipment which comprises of a Naish boxer 12 mtr kite and a
      > Naish 5th line bar. The equipment is second hand.
      >
      > I have been watching other people and from what I have seen the 5th
      > line seems to be made of a line going straight up to the leading edge
      > of the kite and connecting via a series of knots at different levels.
      >
      > On my bar the 5th line is made up from a line connected to a piece of
      > bungee cord then another line which goes up to the leading edge and
      > connects to another line with the knots. The kite seems to fly ok but
      > the line is very loose and hangs a lot.
      >
      > I have asked a few people about this on the beach but I can never get
      > any sense from them they just tell me if it flys its ok.
      >
      > Is it normal to have a 5th line made from kite line and elastic
      > bungee and should it be hanging or tight.
      >
      > Thanks in advance to anyone who can help me with this.
      >
      > Regards Brian
      >
      >
      >



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • George
      Actually the 5th line was a great advancement in safety and I would strongly recommend it to anyone starting out. When you release to 5th it is similar to
      Message 2 of 6 , Aug 14 9:08 AM
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        Actually the 5th line was a great advancement in
        safety and I would strongly recommend it to anyone
        starting out. When you release to 5th it is
        similar to holding the kite from the center of the
        leading edge
        and there is is a fairly small pull. The way to
        avoid tangling is to *not* route the line
        through the bar. I made my own 5th line setup and I
        wouldn't go back (I fly C-kites). I still think 5th
        lines are less complicated than bridles which can
        break, and pulleys can jam up, etc..

        I recommend that you go to your nearest kite
        shop and ask someone who sells Naish kites to
        explain the use of their 5th line. You can also
        go to kiteforum.com and search for '5th line.'
        You will find plenty of discussions on that subject.

        Good Luck!



        --- Dean Crowell <dean@...> wrote:

        > Sorry to say this but I finally gave-up on the 5th
        > line for the same
        > reason - There were no instructions, there was no
        > consensus on the
        > beach and it was just getting tangled. I'm curious
        > to know the answer
        > too -
        > Dean
        >
        >
        > On Aug 14, 2007, at 8:12 AM, rockhopper25 wrote:
        >
        > > Hi guys I am a complete newby to kitesurfing I
        > have just bought my
        > > first equipment which comprises of a Naish boxer
        > 12 mtr kite and a
        > > Naish 5th line bar. The equipment is second hand.
        > >
        > > I have been watching other people and from what I
        > have seen the 5th
        > > line seems to be made of a line going straight up
        > to the leading edge
        > > of the kite and connecting via a series of knots
        > at different levels.
        > >
        > > On my bar the 5th line is made up from a line
        > connected to a piece of
        > > bungee cord then another line which goes up to the
        > leading edge and
        > > connects to another line with the knots. The kite
        > seems to fly ok but
        > > the line is very loose and hangs a lot.
        > >
        > > I have asked a few people about this on the beach
        > but I can never get
        > > any sense from them they just tell me if it flys
        > its ok.
        > >
        > > Is it normal to have a 5th line made from kite
        > line and elastic
        > > bungee and should it be hanging or tight.
        > >
        > > Thanks in advance to anyone who can help me with
        > this.
        > >
        > > Regards Brian
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been
        > removed]
        >
        >




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      • netcmdd
        Brian: Do NOT give up on the 5th line, the safety and relaunch make it something I require in a kite and I don t feel safe without it. Regarding slack in the
        Message 3 of 6 , Aug 14 9:15 AM
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          Brian:

          Do NOT give up on the 5th line, the safety and relaunch make it
          something I require in a kite and I don't feel safe without it.

          Regarding slack in the 5th line (this is mostly for North kites, check
          your OEM website to confirm for others):

          * There will be some slack when the depower strap is sheeted in since
          you've shortened the front lines. This is normal. In an 06 North
          kite+bar, there is no bungee so the slack is even more visible. It's ok.

          * Try to ensure the 5th line doesn't get too twisted around the front
          lines when you rig (untwist it). A couple twists is ok, but when you
          start doing spins, too many in one direction can make it tight.

          See this video to understand how to tune and check your line lengths:
          http://www.northkites.com/public/content/e139/e161/e271/e2193/content/index_ger.html?image_actual=1
          [hint: they should all be the same length]

          5th line relaunch is super easy. Get kite LE down, downwind. If it's
          LE up, pull one side of lines to get it to spin kite and turn LE down.
          Grab two armfuls of 5th line to pitch kite back 45 degrees and pull
          bar to one side. (DO NOT flip the kite on its back -- taco -- this
          isn't good). This makes it taxi to the side of the window. Let out 5th
          line as it gets to the side of window so it gets a bit more power.
          Once to the side, it should be wing up. Keep pulling bar and when it's
          about to launch let out all 5th line. It should now launch so steer it
          like an assisted launch.

          To relaunch with leading edge facing you:

          Trick is to ensure the lines do not slide over the back of the kite
          and "invert" it.

          To prevent this, pull 5th line (or all 4 lines) at the same time to
          get the kite toward you and create slack in the lines. With the slack
          in the lines, pull on the steering line on the side of the kite that
          is most likely not to slide up over the kite (you can see one set of
          lines along the canopy the other under the leading edge. Since the
          ones under the leading edge won't slide over the kite, pull these).
          The kite will spin, starting to turn leading-edge-down-away-from-you
          and start to fill with air as normal relaunch. At this point, relaunch
          as you would with LE down (pull 5th, steer to one side, get to edge,
          takeoff).

          Self landing in Sherman Channel at Little Baja (DANGER):

          I had to do this a while back cause I couldn't go upwind and I'm kite
          addicted bad. It was WAY easier than it sounds in 25mph on 12m. Be
          careful, this is a dangerous location to try to get out if you can't
          stay upwind on after I did it, (and being lofted 3 times in the
          channel pretty well) I decided I probably shouldn't have tried it at all.

          You can play the 5th line to the other lines to get the kite off the
          water and drop it on top of the levee as you approach (Don B.
          explained this in more detail to me, very useful). So, you hit the
          chickenloop release, let go of the bar and kite crashes. You start
          self rescue, wind 5th line slack onto the bar (to make sure the kite
          is depowered as you approach the bar, wind lines, etc. very
          important). As you get near the rocks, pull more 5th line. This sends
          the kite into the air since the LE gets pulled toward you and the kite
          is upside down -- kite still has no power. Get it over the rocks as
          you drift downwind. As it gets over the grass, let some 5th out (or
          pull side lines a bit to get kite down) and it will drop on the grass.
          TOTALLY AMAZING Wink.



          --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "rockhopper25" <rockhopper25@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi guys I am a complete newby to kitesurfing I have just bought my
          > first equipment which comprises of a Naish boxer 12 mtr kite and a
          > Naish 5th line bar. The equipment is second hand.
          >
          > I have been watching other people and from what I have seen the 5th
          > line seems to be made of a line going straight up to the leading edge
          > of the kite and connecting via a series of knots at different levels.
          >
          > On my bar the 5th line is made up from a line connected to a piece of
          > bungee cord then another line which goes up to the leading edge and
          > connects to another line with the knots. The kite seems to fly ok but
          > the line is very loose and hangs a lot.
          >
          > I have asked a few people about this on the beach but I can never get
          > any sense from them they just tell me if it flys its ok.
          >
          > Is it normal to have a 5th line made from kite line and elastic
          > bungee and should it be hanging or tight.
          >
          > Thanks in advance to anyone who can help me with this.
          >
          > Regards Brian
          >
        • Brian Anderson
          Hi Jon Thank you so much for the advice and help I really apreciate it. You have answered more than I originaly asked which is great but now I have another
          Message 4 of 6 , Aug 15 1:52 AM
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            Hi Jon

            Thank you so much for the advice and help I really
            apreciate it.

            You have answered more than I originaly asked which is
            great but now I have another question if you can help
            me.

            You said that all lines should be the same length,
            currently they are but the 5th line is connecting to a
            line that is fastened to the centre leading edge which
            is about 6 ft long with several knots at different
            stages therefore making it very saggy.

            Should I have this extra line or should the 5th line
            be fastened right up to the leading edge?

            Regards Brian

            PS. I hope you dont mind me asking all these questions



            --- netcmdd <jon@...> wrote:

            > Brian:
            >
            > Do NOT give up on the 5th line, the safety and
            > relaunch make it
            > something I require in a kite and I don't feel safe
            > without it.
            >
            > Regarding slack in the 5th line (this is mostly for
            > North kites, check
            > your OEM website to confirm for others):
            >
            > * There will be some slack when the depower strap
            > is sheeted in since
            > you've shortened the front lines. This is normal. In
            > an 06 North
            > kite+bar, there is no bungee so the slack is even
            > more visible. It's ok.
            >
            > * Try to ensure the 5th line doesn't get too
            > twisted around the front
            > lines when you rig (untwist it). A couple twists is
            > ok, but when you
            > start doing spins, too many in one direction can
            > make it tight.
            >
            > See this video to understand how to tune and check
            > your line lengths:
            >
            http://www.northkites.com/public/content/e139/e161/e271/e2193/content/index_ger.html?image_actual=1
            > [hint: they should all be the same length]
            >
            > 5th line relaunch is super easy. Get kite LE down,
            > downwind. If it's
            > LE up, pull one side of lines to get it to spin kite
            > and turn LE down.
            > Grab two armfuls of 5th line to pitch kite back 45
            > degrees and pull
            > bar to one side. (DO NOT flip the kite on its back
            > -- taco -- this
            > isn't good). This makes it taxi to the side of the
            > window. Let out 5th
            > line as it gets to the side of window so it gets a
            > bit more power.
            > Once to the side, it should be wing up. Keep pulling
            > bar and when it's
            > about to launch let out all 5th line. It should now
            > launch so steer it
            > like an assisted launch.
            >
            > To relaunch with leading edge facing you:
            >
            > Trick is to ensure the lines do not slide over the
            > back of the kite
            > and "invert" it.
            >
            > To prevent this, pull 5th line (or all 4 lines) at
            > the same time to
            > get the kite toward you and create slack in the
            > lines. With the slack
            > in the lines, pull on the steering line on the side
            > of the kite that
            > is most likely not to slide up over the kite (you
            > can see one set of
            > lines along the canopy the other under the leading
            > edge. Since the
            > ones under the leading edge won't slide over the
            > kite, pull these).
            > The kite will spin, starting to turn
            > leading-edge-down-away-from-you
            > and start to fill with air as normal relaunch. At
            > this point, relaunch
            > as you would with LE down (pull 5th, steer to one
            > side, get to edge,
            > takeoff).
            >
            > Self landing in Sherman Channel at Little Baja
            > (DANGER):
            >
            > I had to do this a while back cause I couldn't go
            > upwind and I'm kite
            > addicted bad. It was WAY easier than it sounds in
            > 25mph on 12m. Be
            > careful, this is a dangerous location to try to get
            > out if you can't
            > stay upwind on after I did it, (and being lofted 3
            > times in the
            > channel pretty well) I decided I probably shouldn't
            > have tried it at all.
            >
            > You can play the 5th line to the other lines to get
            > the kite off the
            > water and drop it on top of the levee as you
            > approach (Don B.
            > explained this in more detail to me, very useful).
            > So, you hit the
            > chickenloop release, let go of the bar and kite
            > crashes. You start
            > self rescue, wind 5th line slack onto the bar (to
            > make sure the kite
            > is depowered as you approach the bar, wind lines,
            > etc. very
            > important). As you get near the rocks, pull more 5th
            > line. This sends
            > the kite into the air since the LE gets pulled
            > toward you and the kite
            > is upside down -- kite still has no power. Get it
            > over the rocks as
            > you drift downwind. As it gets over the grass, let
            > some 5th out (or
            > pull side lines a bit to get kite down) and it will
            > drop on the grass.
            > TOTALLY AMAZING Wink.
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "rockhopper25"
            > <rockhopper25@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Hi guys I am a complete newby to kitesurfing I
            > have just bought my
            > > first equipment which comprises of a Naish boxer
            > 12 mtr kite and a
            > > Naish 5th line bar. The equipment is second hand.
            > >
            > > I have been watching other people and from what I
            > have seen the 5th
            > > line seems to be made of a line going straight up
            > to the leading edge
            > > of the kite and connecting via a series of knots
            > at different levels.
            > >
            > > On my bar the 5th line is made up from a line
            > connected to a piece of
            > > bungee cord then another line which goes up to the
            > leading edge and
            > > connects to another line with the knots. The kite
            > seems to fly ok but
            > > the line is very loose and hangs a lot.
            > >
            > > I have asked a few people about this on the beach
            > but I can never get
            > > any sense from them they just tell me if it flys
            > its ok.
            > >
            > > Is it normal to have a 5th line made from kite
            > line and elastic
            > > bungee and should it be hanging or tight.
            > >
            > > Thanks in advance to anyone who can help me with
            > this.
            > >
            > > Regards Brian
            > >
            >
            >
            >



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          • jim cancil
            Brian: I m a little late to the conversation, but only the four primary lines (front/backs) should be the same length ( find a very strong nail and rig your
            Message 5 of 6 , Aug 15 5:24 AM
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              Brian: I'm a little late to the conversation, but only the four primary lines (front/backs)
              should be the same length ( find a very strong nail and rig your harness to make sure they
              are.. generally, you'll want the bar about centered on the depower line with them all equal
              .. and switch your backs for the fronts if there are ANY nicks/abrasions/knots on the
              fronts)

              The 5th attachment should be at the front edge of the kite. In the old days when we made
              our own, we tied them off anywhere we could - with lesser results. The line coming off
              the kite is - specific to the kite - so you can move the bar/lineset over to another kite
              without the 5th line from the bar being too long/short. The knots are there to
              accomidate adjustments. The elastic is also there so you do not tension the line as you
              pull the bar back - that's a modern improvement to us made-our-own types. You do not
              want the 5th to tighten as you pull in the bar for full power - because that will depower it.
              (A good way to wait out a gust is to grab a handfull of 5th to pull the nose over a 'little' to
              spill some pressure.) Use the knots to allow the 5th line to slack off ..maybe 6" but not
              too much as it will wander around.

              A 5th line can save your ass. New people don't know about size/wind speed and can get
              their butts kicked when the wind kicks up. Double the velocity = 4X the power. ..10mph
              headed to 20 can kill you on a 16. If you are in a place where it's gusty, a 5th line can
              hold a lot of tension when you drop the kite for safety - wear gloves if it's gusty - because
              a thin line under tension can easily cut your hands.

              In light air, the 5th can make a kite launchable whereas the old 4-lines would never come
              off the water. It will pull it flat on the water so you can grab the rear line and guide the
              kite over to the edge for relaunch.

              j i m






              --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, Brian Anderson <rockhopper25@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi Jon
              >
              > Thank you so much for the advice and help I really
              > apreciate it.
              >
              > You have answered more than I originaly asked which is
              > great but now I have another question if you can help
              > me.
              >
              > You said that all lines should be the same length,
              > currently they are but the 5th line is connecting to a
              > line that is fastened to the centre leading edge which
              > is about 6 ft long with several knots at different
              > stages therefore making it very saggy.
              >
              > Should I have this extra line or should the 5th line
              > be fastened right up to the leading edge?
              >
              > Regards Brian
              >
              > PS. I hope you dont mind me asking all these questions
              >
              >
              >
              > --- netcmdd <jon@...> wrote:
              >
              > > Brian:
              > >
              > > Do NOT give up on the 5th line, the safety and
              > > relaunch make it
              > > something I require in a kite and I don't feel safe
              > > without it.
              > >
              > > Regarding slack in the 5th line (this is mostly for
              > > North kites, check
              > > your OEM website to confirm for others):
              > >
              > > * There will be some slack when the depower strap
              > > is sheeted in since
              > > you've shortened the front lines. This is normal. In
              > > an 06 North
              > > kite+bar, there is no bungee so the slack is even
              > > more visible. It's ok.
              > >
              > > * Try to ensure the 5th line doesn't get too
              > > twisted around the front
              > > lines when you rig (untwist it). A couple twists is
              > > ok, but when you
              > > start doing spins, too many in one direction can
              > > make it tight.
              > >
              > > See this video to understand how to tune and check
              > > your line lengths:
              > >
              > http://www.northkites.com/public/content/e139/e161/e271/e2193/content/
              index_ger.html?image_actual=1
              > > [hint: they should all be the same length]
              > >
              > > 5th line relaunch is super easy. Get kite LE down,
              > > downwind. If it's
              > > LE up, pull one side of lines to get it to spin kite
              > > and turn LE down.
              > > Grab two armfuls of 5th line to pitch kite back 45
              > > degrees and pull
              > > bar to one side. (DO NOT flip the kite on its back
              > > -- taco -- this
              > > isn't good). This makes it taxi to the side of the
              > > window. Let out 5th
              > > line as it gets to the side of window so it gets a
              > > bit more power.
              > > Once to the side, it should be wing up. Keep pulling
              > > bar and when it's
              > > about to launch let out all 5th line. It should now
              > > launch so steer it
              > > like an assisted launch.
              > >
              > > To relaunch with leading edge facing you:
              > >
              > > Trick is to ensure the lines do not slide over the
              > > back of the kite
              > > and "invert" it.
              > >
              > > To prevent this, pull 5th line (or all 4 lines) at
              > > the same time to
              > > get the kite toward you and create slack in the
              > > lines. With the slack
              > > in the lines, pull on the steering line on the side
              > > of the kite that
              > > is most likely not to slide up over the kite (you
              > > can see one set of
              > > lines along the canopy the other under the leading
              > > edge. Since the
              > > ones under the leading edge won't slide over the
              > > kite, pull these).
              > > The kite will spin, starting to turn
              > > leading-edge-down-away-from-you
              > > and start to fill with air as normal relaunch. At
              > > this point, relaunch
              > > as you would with LE down (pull 5th, steer to one
              > > side, get to edge,
              > > takeoff).
              > >
              > > Self landing in Sherman Channel at Little Baja
              > > (DANGER):
              > >
              > > I had to do this a while back cause I couldn't go
              > > upwind and I'm kite
              > > addicted bad. It was WAY easier than it sounds in
              > > 25mph on 12m. Be
              > > careful, this is a dangerous location to try to get
              > > out if you can't
              > > stay upwind on after I did it, (and being lofted 3
              > > times in the
              > > channel pretty well) I decided I probably shouldn't
              > > have tried it at all.
              > >
              > > You can play the 5th line to the other lines to get
              > > the kite off the
              > > water and drop it on top of the levee as you
              > > approach (Don B.
              > > explained this in more detail to me, very useful).
              > > So, you hit the
              > > chickenloop release, let go of the bar and kite
              > > crashes. You start
              > > self rescue, wind 5th line slack onto the bar (to
              > > make sure the kite
              > > is depowered as you approach the bar, wind lines,
              > > etc. very
              > > important). As you get near the rocks, pull more 5th
              > > line. This sends
              > > the kite into the air since the LE gets pulled
              > > toward you and the kite
              > > is upside down -- kite still has no power. Get it
              > > over the rocks as
              > > you drift downwind. As it gets over the grass, let
              > > some 5th out (or
              > > pull side lines a bit to get kite down) and it will
              > > drop on the grass.
              > > TOTALLY AMAZING Wink.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "rockhopper25"
              > > <rockhopper25@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Hi guys I am a complete newby to kitesurfing I
              > > have just bought my
              > > > first equipment which comprises of a Naish boxer
              > > 12 mtr kite and a
              > > > Naish 5th line bar. The equipment is second hand.
              > > >
              > > > I have been watching other people and from what I
              > > have seen the 5th
              > > > line seems to be made of a line going straight up
              > > to the leading edge
              > > > of the kite and connecting via a series of knots
              > > at different levels.
              > > >
              > > > On my bar the 5th line is made up from a line
              > > connected to a piece of
              > > > bungee cord then another line which goes up to the
              > > leading edge and
              > > > connects to another line with the knots. The kite
              > > seems to fly ok but
              > > > the line is very loose and hangs a lot.
              > > >
              > > > I have asked a few people about this on the beach
              > > but I can never get
              > > > any sense from them they just tell me if it flys
              > > its ok.
              > > >
              > > > Is it normal to have a 5th line made from kite
              > > line and elastic
              > > > bungee and should it be hanging or tight.
              > > >
              > > > Thanks in advance to anyone who can help me with
              > > this.
              > > >
              > > > Regards Brian
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              > ___________________________________________________________
              > Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it
              > now.
              > http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/
              >
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