Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

RE: [ksurf] 2 non FAQ Beginner questions

Expand Messages
  • Klotz, Michael MD
    This isn t surfing. Not knowing how to handle a kite can EASILY get you killed, or make you a quad. More importantly, and despite you free spirit, you could
    Message 1 of 12 , Jul 19 1:36 PM
    • 0 Attachment
      This isn't surfing. Not knowing how to handle a kite can EASILY get you killed, or make you a quad. More importantly, and despite you free spirit, you could also kill or seriously injure a bystander. We have all seen experienced kites get into major trouble and that is on the water. We have also seen/heard of multiple deaths and head injuries from ending up on land. Typically from beginners who don't understand the potential power of a kite. I strongly recommend flying a trainer kite until you can fly it blind and then take lessons. Depending on the wind, your larger kite could have the power of a MasterCraft and when you lose control, and you will, it is as if someone hit the throttle. This is advice from kiteboarding fanatics. Be safe or you may not live to enjoy this awesome sport. MK

      -----Original Message-----
      From: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com [mailto:kitesurf@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Andy
      Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 12:17 PM
      To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [ksurf] 2 non FAQ Beginner questions



      Well, I'm hopefully meeting up with 2 other guys who've just done the
      same this weekend so we'll see what happens to all 3 of us.

      I remember this stuff when I started surfing. `Always bring company`
      `Get insurance` blah blah. The advice is good and took it onboard. But
      what I loved was just driving off alone somewhere, knowing that my
      life is my responsibility. Like a freeclimbing rock climber I love
      that responsibility of one's own skin. I love knowing that if I slip,
      it's my fault and mine alone. And when I nearly drowned I loved it. I
      loved the thrill of being alive after something like that. I like
      advice, nobody likes orders. Nanny culture, I own these bones. But if
      I expect you to help me afterwards, now that's a different argument,
      and one I heed.

      Now, I got this 9 and I've decided to heed advice about harnesses so
      as a result I don't want to wear a harness for safety's sake. But the
      only way I can see how to rig the kite is with the depower lines that
      connect to a harness.

      So, you can either let me figure it out myself or you can give me a
      hint as to whether this kite is dependent on a harness.

      Don't get me wrong, I believe there are very significant dangers. But
      I don't believe that that therefore means I have to pay significant
      money to a professional who extols on and on about those dangers in
      order to boost business. There are cheaper forms of education, and
      other ways of increasing safety. What of people we've known in the
      past who had no lessons and are here to tell the tale?

      I didn't expect to win this kite. So when it came though I thought,
      another kite for training? I thought, if I get a non gusty day and the
      wind is light, being a 9 that should treat me a little more lightly so
      let's just get on with it. Let's just get on with it or it'll never
      happen.

      Managed to get it up briefly last night with a friend holding the
      harness attachment. Didn't seem too bad. And if it did take me, just
      drop the bar. I'm no expert but is that really so hard?

      Anyway, you'll all hate me know so nice knowing you.

      - A







      DISCLAIMER:
      This message is intended for the sole use of the addressee, and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the addressee you are hereby notified that you may not use, copy, disclose, or distribute to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received this message in error, please immediately advise the sender by reply email and delete this message.


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Steve
      Hey Andy We re just trying to help you avoid disaster If you are determined - maybe you better describe your bar setup. Most 5 line bars will fly fine
      Message 2 of 12 , Jul 19 2:09 PM
      • 0 Attachment
        Hey Andy

        We're just trying to help you avoid disaster

        If you are determined - maybe you better describe your bar setup. Most
        5 line bars will fly fine unhooked.

        Re: the idea of just dropping the bar - 1. make sure you have a safety
        leash that will fully depower the kite when you let go and practice
        letting go so it becomes automatic and 2. back in the old days there
        were many reports of guys who were unhooked and just holding the bars
        in their hands who did not let go even after multiple impacts. There
        seems to be some kind of psychological block to it. Probably because by
        the time you know you need to let go you are already flying through the
        air at speed.

        Hope this helps

        Steve
        Carson City, Nevada

        Andy wrote:
        >
        >
        > Now, I got this 9 and I've decided to heed advice about harnesses so
        > as a result I don't want to wear a harness for safety's sake. But the
        > only way I can see how to rig the kite is with the depower lines that
        > connect to a harness.
        >
        > So, you can either let me figure it out myself or you can give me a
        > hint as to whether this kite is dependent on a harness.
        >
        >
        > Don't get me wrong, I believe there are very significant dangers. But
        > I don't believe that that therefore means I have to pay significant
        > money to a professional who extols on and on about those dangers in
        > order to boost business. There are cheaper forms of education, and
        > other ways of increasing safety. What of people we've known in the
        > past who had no lessons and are here to tell the tale?
        >
        > I didn't expect to win this kite. So when it came though I thought,
        > another kite for training? I thought, if I get a non gusty day and the
        > wind is light, being a 9 that should treat me a little more lightly so
        > let's just get on with it. Let's just get on with it or it'll never
        > happen.
        >
        > Managed to get it up briefly last night with a friend holding the
        > harness attachment. Didn't seem too bad. And if it did take me, just
        > drop the bar. I'm no expert but is that really so hard?
        >
        > Anyway, you'll all hate me know so nice knowing you.
        >
        > - A
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        >
        > No virus found in this incoming message.
        > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
        > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.9/907 - Release Date: 7/18/2007 3:30 PM
        >
      • drmathieu
        To the group and Andy, I have belonged to this group for a long time and this last post really disturbed me. Andy, you say that we hate you ? How do you
        Message 3 of 12 , Jul 20 11:49 AM
        • 0 Attachment
          To the group and Andy,

          I have belonged to this group for a long time and this last post really
          disturbed me. Andy, you say that we "hate you"? How do you know?
          You have never met us.

          I applaud your enthusiasm to begin to kiting but first things are first.
          Lessons are a great idea. Awesome idea. I had a 2.8 meter Best trainer
          that I flew for a year and a half and then shredded it from flying so
          much. I then bought a HQ Beemer 3.6 meter. I flew both of these kites
          for about 2 years before I took lessons (Real Kiteboarding). I learned
          two things from flying my trainer and taking lessons:

          1. FEAR

          2. RESPECT

          As a former Rugby player, I wanted a sport that would keep me in shape.
          I am 6' 1" and I weigh 230 pounds. I love kiting. I just got back from
          a trip to Hatteras NC. I took both my Cabrinha Bow Kites with me
          (12Meter and 16Meter). Each session that I put the kites into the air
          I had both fear and great respect for the kites.

          I think you can find GREAT deals on Ebay. Saftey? My 3.6 Meter
          trainer will drag me down the beach in about 20-25knots of wind. I
          think I would want to have a harness on a 9Meter just in case I dropped
          the kite and then the kite would go down the beach and hurt an innocent
          bystander. I want to be in control of my equipment at all times. I
          would never think of launching my kites without a harness. I have
          launched unhooked before and then as soon as possible attached the
          chicken loop. Both of my Cabrinha bow kites have almost instant
          DEPOWER. Some of the old kites have almost no depower. Kiting has come
          a LONG way in a short amount of years. I saw a guy get pulled onto
          shore and hit a tree in 1999. Luckily the guy was not hurt that bad.
          That right there showed me that these kites have a LOT of power.

          We are not saying that we do not like you, just get lessons or learn
          from someone experienced. Some of us have been there and done that!
          learn from our mistakes. Kitemare.com is a great start.

          I hope you have an awesome time kiteboarding and please email the group
          if you need any advice.

          I look forward to seeing you on the water,

          Dr. Mathieu W. Sisk





          Without one or the other you are going in the wrong direction.
          , Steve <stevesgroups@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hey Andy
          >
          > We're just trying to help you avoid disaster
          >
          > If you are determined - maybe you better describe your bar setup. Most
          > 5 line bars will fly fine unhooked.
          >
          > Re: the idea of just dropping the bar - 1. make sure you have a safety
          > leash that will fully depower the kite when you let go and practice
          > letting go so it becomes automatic and 2. back in the old days there
          > were many reports of guys who were unhooked and just holding the bars
          > in their hands who did not let go even after multiple impacts. There
          > seems to be some kind of psychological block to it. Probably because
          by
          > the time you know you need to let go you are already flying through
          the
          > air at speed.
          >
          > Hope this helps
          >
          > Steve
          > Carson City, Nevada
          >
          > Andy wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > Now, I got this 9 and I've decided to heed advice about harnesses so
          > > as a result I don't want to wear a harness for safety's sake. But
          the
          > > only way I can see how to rig the kite is with the depower lines
          that
          > > connect to a harness.
          > >
          > > So, you can either let me figure it out myself or you can give me a
          > > hint as to whether this kite is dependent on a harness.
          > >
          > >
          > > Don't get me wrong, I believe there are very significant dangers.
          But
          > > I don't believe that that therefore means I have to pay significant
          > > money to a professional who extols on and on about those dangers in
          > > order to boost business. There are cheaper forms of education, and
          > > other ways of increasing safety. What of people we've known in the
          > > past who had no lessons and are here to tell the tale?
          > >
          > > I didn't expect to win this kite. So when it came though I thought,
          > > another kite for training? I thought, if I get a non gusty day and
          the
          > > wind is light, being a 9 that should treat me a little more lightly
          so
          > > let's just get on with it. Let's just get on with it or it'll never
          > > happen.
          > >
          > > Managed to get it up briefly last night with a friend holding the
          > > harness attachment. Didn't seem too bad. And if it did take me, just
          > > drop the bar. I'm no expert but is that really so hard?
          > >
          > > Anyway, you'll all hate me know so nice knowing you.
          > >
          > > - A
          > >
          > >
          > >
          ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          > >
          > > No virus found in this incoming message.
          > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
          > > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.9/907 - Release Date:
          7/18/2007 3:30 PM
          > >
          >




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Klotz, Michael MD
          Actually these messages are out of concern for your safety. I started in the very early days (2 line Naish AR 3.5) when there was no instruction whatsoever.
          Message 4 of 12 , Jul 20 12:28 PM
          • 0 Attachment
            Actually these messages are out of concern for your safety. I started in the very early days (2 line Naish AR 3.5) when there was no instruction whatsoever. No boards for a while either. I had a lot of boat rescues and finally a kitemare that almost killed me. I quit the sport until 4 yrs ago. I am an adrenaline junky and my buddies figure I have used 8 of my 9 lives. I took lessons 4 yrs ago and balked at the cost, but when they compared it to diving lessons and the need for safety instruction (as well as fragile equipment) I understood.
            I was still scared until I had several months of kiting under my belt.
            Most people who get lofted on land don't let go soon enought and flying big kites on land is a dangerous mistake to most of us. You can also easily destroy your kite.
            In the water you need to know how to control your kite and do a self rescue. I have seen and heard of incredible kitemares and it never ceases to amaze me how inventive an out of control kite is in finding novel ways to try and kill you.
            I herniated a disc in May when my kite inverted in 45mph winds and I couldn't haul it in for self-rescue. I had lines around my legs and my knife in my mouth and could have easily lost a limb from those lines.
            This is an absolutely awesome sport and advances are being made yearly (never buy older kites) and we are seeing fewer and fewer deaths, but a lot of that is due to understanding the dangers of the sport.
            It sounds like you plan on flying your kite regardless of our advice. Know your safety systems. Know how to release the chicken loop, flag the kite out, release the kite if shit hits the fan. Know how to rig and check your lines. Know the weather! A squall and doubling of the wind will send you into orbit.
            MK

            -----Original Message-----
            From: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com [mailto:kitesurf@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of drmathieu
            Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 11:49 AM
            To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [ksurf] 2 non FAQ Beginner questions




            To the group and Andy,

            I have belonged to this group for a long time and this last post really
            disturbed me. Andy, you say that we "hate you"? How do you know?
            You have never met us.

            I applaud your enthusiasm to begin to kiting but first things are first.
            Lessons are a great idea. Awesome idea. I had a 2.8 meter Best trainer
            that I flew for a year and a half and then shredded it from flying so
            much. I then bought a HQ Beemer 3.6 meter. I flew both of these kites
            for about 2 years before I took lessons (Real Kiteboarding). I learned
            two things from flying my trainer and taking lessons:

            1. FEAR

            2. RESPECT

            As a former Rugby player, I wanted a sport that would keep me in shape.
            I am 6' 1" and I weigh 230 pounds. I love kiting. I just got back from
            a trip to Hatteras NC. I took both my Cabrinha Bow Kites with me
            (12Meter and 16Meter). Each session that I put the kites into the air
            I had both fear and great respect for the kites.

            I think you can find GREAT deals on Ebay. Saftey? My 3.6 Meter
            trainer will drag me down the beach in about 20-25knots of wind. I
            think I would want to have a harness on a 9Meter just in case I dropped
            the kite and then the kite would go down the beach and hurt an innocent
            bystander. I want to be in control of my equipment at all times. I
            would never think of launching my kites without a harness. I have
            launched unhooked before and then as soon as possible attached the
            chicken loop. Both of my Cabrinha bow kites have almost instant
            DEPOWER. Some of the old kites have almost no depower. Kiting has come
            a LONG way in a short amount of years. I saw a guy get pulled onto
            shore and hit a tree in 1999. Luckily the guy was not hurt that bad.
            That right there showed me that these kites have a LOT of power.

            We are not saying that we do not like you, just get lessons or learn
            from someone experienced. Some of us have been there and done that!
            learn from our mistakes. Kitemare.com is a great start.

            I hope you have an awesome time kiteboarding and please email the group
            if you need any advice.

            I look forward to seeing you on the water,

            Dr. Mathieu W. Sisk

            Without one or the other you are going in the wrong direction.
            , Steve <stevesgroups@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hey Andy
            >
            > We're just trying to help you avoid disaster
            >
            > If you are determined - maybe you better describe your bar setup. Most
            > 5 line bars will fly fine unhooked.
            >
            > Re: the idea of just dropping the bar - 1. make sure you have a safety
            > leash that will fully depower the kite when you let go and practice
            > letting go so it becomes automatic and 2. back in the old days there
            > were many reports of guys who were unhooked and just holding the bars
            > in their hands who did not let go even after multiple impacts. There
            > seems to be some kind of psychological block to it. Probably because
            by
            > the time you know you need to let go you are already flying through
            the
            > air at speed.
            >
            > Hope this helps
            >
            > Steve
            > Carson City, Nevada
            >
            > Andy wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > Now, I got this 9 and I've decided to heed advice about harnesses so
            > > as a result I don't want to wear a harness for safety's sake. But
            the
            > > only way I can see how to rig the kite is with the depower lines
            that
            > > connect to a harness.
            > >
            > > So, you can either let me figure it out myself or you can give me a
            > > hint as to whether this kite is dependent on a harness.
            > >
            > >
            > > Don't get me wrong, I believe there are very significant dangers.
            But
            > > I don't believe that that therefore means I have to pay significant
            > > money to a professional who extols on and on about those dangers in
            > > order to boost business. There are cheaper forms of education, and
            > > other ways of increasing safety. What of people we've known in the
            > > past who had no lessons and are here to tell the tale?
            > >
            > > I didn't expect to win this kite. So when it came though I thought,
            > > another kite for training? I thought, if I get a non gusty day and
            the
            > > wind is light, being a 9 that should treat me a little more lightly
            so
            > > let's just get on with it. Let's just get on with it or it'll never
            > > happen.
            > >
            > > Managed to get it up briefly last night with a friend holding the
            > > harness attachment. Didn't seem too bad. And if it did take me, just
            > > drop the bar. I'm no expert but is that really so hard?
            > >
            > > Anyway, you'll all hate me know so nice knowing you.
            > >
            > > - A
            > >
            > >
            > >
            ----------------------------------------------------------
            > >
            > > No virus found in this incoming message.
            > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
            > > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.9/907 - Release Date:
            7/18/2007 3:30 PM
            > >
            >

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







            DISCLAIMER:
            This message is intended for the sole use of the addressee, and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the addressee you are hereby notified that you may not use, copy, disclose, or distribute to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received this message in error, please immediately advise the sender by reply email and delete this message.


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • loco 4 olas
            Mate-I ve been surfing for over 30 years and won a coupla Aussie titles doing it-I ve been kiting for 6 years now-the dangers are incomparable-kiting is way
            Message 5 of 12 , Jul 21 9:30 PM
            • 0 Attachment
              Mate-I've been surfing for over 30 years and won a coupla' Aussie titles doing it-I've been kiting for 6 years now-the dangers are incomparable-kiting is way more risky than anything but surfing Teahpou-I know, I do both.

              And in kiting (unlike to a large extent in rock climbing) your fuck ups can have HUGE negative consequences for bystanders.

              Let go of your ego and put your newbie self into a school to get the basics-you have NO idea.

              Hey-I've been climbing sand hills-this weekend I'm off to El Cap with my running shoes and a bottle of Sprite-wanna' climb below me-duh!



              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Andy
              To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 5:16 AM
              Subject: Re: [ksurf] 2 non FAQ Beginner questions


              Well, I'm hopefully meeting up with 2 other guys who've just done the
              same this weekend so we'll see what happens to all 3 of us.

              I remember this stuff when I started surfing. `Always bring company`
              `Get insurance` blah blah. The advice is good and took it onboard. But
              what I loved was just driving off alone somewhere, knowing that my
              life is my responsibility. Like a freeclimbing rock climber I love
              that responsibility of one's own skin. I love knowing that if I slip,
              it's my fault and mine alone. And when I nearly drowned I loved it. I
              loved the thrill of being alive after something like that. I like
              advice, nobody likes orders. Nanny culture, I own these bones. But if
              I expect you to help me afterwards, now that's a different argument,
              and one I heed.

              Now, I got this 9 and I've decided to heed advice about harnesses so
              as a result I don't want to wear a harness for safety's sake. But the
              only way I can see how to rig the kite is with the depower lines that
              connect to a harness.

              So, you can either let me figure it out myself or you can give me a
              hint as to whether this kite is dependent on a harness.

              Don't get me wrong, I believe there are very significant dangers. But
              I don't believe that that therefore means I have to pay significant
              money to a professional who extols on and on about those dangers in
              order to boost business. There are cheaper forms of education, and
              other ways of increasing safety. What of people we've known in the
              past who had no lessons and are here to tell the tale?

              I didn't expect to win this kite. So when it came though I thought,
              another kite for training? I thought, if I get a non gusty day and the
              wind is light, being a 9 that should treat me a little more lightly so
              let's just get on with it. Let's just get on with it or it'll never
              happen.

              Managed to get it up briefly last night with a friend holding the
              harness attachment. Didn't seem too bad. And if it did take me, just
              drop the bar. I'm no expert but is that really so hard?

              Anyway, you'll all hate me know so nice knowing you.

              - A





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Jago Pearce
              For me it s purely just the money, if it was £100 that would be fine ... From: loco 4 olas Reply-To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com To:
              Message 6 of 12 , Jul 22 8:35 AM
              • 0 Attachment
                For me it's purely just the money, if it was �100 that would be fine

                ----Original Message Follows----
                From: "loco 4 olas" <loco4olas@...>
                Reply-To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                To: <kitesurf@yahoogroups.com>
                Subject: Re: [ksurf] 2 non FAQ Beginner questions
                Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 14:30:47 +1000
                MIME-Version: 1.0
                X-Originating-IP: 65.54.246.148
                X-Originating-Email: [loco4olas@...]
                X-Sender: loco4olas@...
                Received: from n27c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.67.220]) by
                bay0-mc6-f8.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Sun, 22
                Jul 2007 00:22:32 -0700
                Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n27.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jul
                2007 07:22:32 -0000
                Received: from [66.218.67.103] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jul
                2007 07:22:32 -0000
                Received: (qmail 5736 invoked from network); 22 Jul 2007 07:22:29 -0000
                Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP;
                22 Jul 2007 07:22:29 -0000
                Received: from unknown (HELO bay0-omc2-s12.bay0.hotmail.com) (65.54.246.148)
                by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jul 2007 07:22:29 -0000
                Received: from hotmail.com ([207.46.8.21]) by bay0-omc2-s12.bay0.hotmail.com
                with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Sun, 22 Jul 2007 00:22:25 -0700
                Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
                Sun, 22 Jul 2007 00:22:25 -0700
                Received: from 59.167.31.103 by BAY117-DAV11.phx.gbl with DAV;Sun, 22 Jul
                2007 07:22:22 +0000
                X-Message-Info:
                LsUYwwHHNt3uN1HyoJdJ1z0wa6mYsEqAZmgWecdV2NaN4xe4v3GwHYQdulOKGKjn
                Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys
                DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima;
                d=yahoogroups.com;b=MNZfruFlaVaurdV3MnG5BPGbiCFrVPv9u7FTTINCuo8f2szAI2E8WhcxtQ63JhDdjXFiPqqcRyAuiAUeSTJ2tynzzII4vZuJXZdBnW9EqyKc1l2uVor8B3P7XzjBkypd;
                X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 1220249-m3813
                X-Apparently-To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                References: <f7odap+kqbv@...>
                X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
                X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138
                X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138
                X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Jul 2007 07:22:25.0577 (UTC)
                FILETIME=[0D871990:01C7CC31]
                X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0
                X-Yahoo-Profile: mattjennsf
                Mailing-List: list kitesurf@yahoogroups.com; contact
                kitesurf-owner@yahoogroups.com
                Delivered-To: mailing list kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                List-Id: <kitesurf.yahoogroups.com>
                Precedence: bulk
                List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:kitesurf-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com>
                X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email-ff
                Return-Path:
                sentto-1220249-3813-1185088951-jago25_98=hotmail.com@...

                Mate-I've been surfing for over 30 years and won a coupla' Aussie titles
                doing it-I've been kiting for 6 years now-the dangers are
                incomparable-kiting is way more risky than anything but surfing Teahpou-I
                know, I do both.

                And in kiting (unlike to a large extent in rock climbing) your fuck ups can
                have HUGE negative consequences for bystanders.

                Let go of your ego and put your newbie self into a school to get the
                basics-you have NO idea.

                Hey-I've been climbing sand hills-this weekend I'm off to El Cap with my
                running shoes and a bottle of Sprite-wanna' climb below me-duh!



                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Andy
                To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 5:16 AM
                Subject: Re: [ksurf] 2 non FAQ Beginner questions


                Well, I'm hopefully meeting up with 2 other guys who've just done the
                same this weekend so we'll see what happens to all 3 of us.

                I remember this stuff when I started surfing. `Always bring company`
                `Get insurance` blah blah. The advice is good and took it onboard. But
                what I loved was just driving off alone somewhere, knowing that my
                life is my responsibility. Like a freeclimbing rock climber I love
                that responsibility of one's own skin. I love knowing that if I slip,
                it's my fault and mine alone. And when I nearly drowned I loved it. I
                loved the thrill of being alive after something like that. I like
                advice, nobody likes orders. Nanny culture, I own these bones. But if
                I expect you to help me afterwards, now that's a different argument,
                and one I heed.

                Now, I got this 9 and I've decided to heed advice about harnesses so
                as a result I don't want to wear a harness for safety's sake. But the
                only way I can see how to rig the kite is with the depower lines that
                connect to a harness.

                So, you can either let me figure it out myself or you can give me a
                hint as to whether this kite is dependent on a harness.

                Don't get me wrong, I believe there are very significant dangers. But
                I don't believe that that therefore means I have to pay significant
                money to a professional who extols on and on about those dangers in
                order to boost business. There are cheaper forms of education, and
                other ways of increasing safety. What of people we've known in the
                past who had no lessons and are here to tell the tale?

                I didn't expect to win this kite. So when it came though I thought,
                another kite for training? I thought, if I get a non gusty day and the
                wind is light, being a 9 that should treat me a little more lightly so
                let's just get on with it. Let's just get on with it or it'll never
                happen.

                Managed to get it up briefly last night with a friend holding the
                harness attachment. Didn't seem too bad. And if it did take me, just
                drop the bar. I'm no expert but is that really so hard?

                Anyway, you'll all hate me know so nice knowing you.

                - A





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                _________________________________________________________________
                Watch all 9 Live Earth concerts live on MSN. http://liveearth.uk.msn.com
              • Jago Pearce
                Any tips for finding reasonably priced lessons here in the UK? ... From: Klotz, Michael MD Reply-To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                Message 7 of 12 , Jul 22 8:41 AM
                • 0 Attachment
                  Any tips for finding reasonably priced lessons here in the UK?

                  ----Original Message Follows----
                  From: "Klotz, Michael MD" <michael.klotz@...>
                  Reply-To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                  To: <kitesurf@yahoogroups.com>
                  Subject: RE: [ksurf] 2 non FAQ Beginner questions
                  Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 12:28:33 -0700
                  MIME-Version: 1.0
                  X-Originating-IP: 170.220.2.14
                  X-Sender: Michael.Klotz@...
                  Received: from n14c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com ([69.147.64.117]) by
                  bay0-mc11-f3.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Fri, 20
                  Jul 2007 12:30:05 -0700
                  Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n14.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20
                  Jul 2007 19:30:05 -0000
                  Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Jul
                  2007 19:30:05 -0000
                  Received: from [66.218.66.96] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Jul
                  2007 19:30:05 -0000
                  Received: (qmail 3174 invoked from network); 20 Jul 2007 19:30:03 -0000
                  Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP;
                  20 Jul 2007 19:30:03 -0000
                  Received: from unknown (HELO wnp1244.or.providence.org) (170.220.2.14) by
                  mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jul 2007 19:30:03 -0000
                  Received: from mail pickup service by wnp1244.or.providence.org with
                  Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 20 Jul 2007 12:28:34 -0700
                  Received: from WNP0620K.or.providence.org ([170.220.65.132]) by
                  wnp1244.or.providence.org with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 20 Jul
                  2007 12:28:33 -0700
                  Received: from wn0761.or.providence.org ([170.220.66.120]) by
                  WNP0620K.or.providence.org with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 20
                  Jul 2007 12:28:31 -0700
                  X-Message-Info:
                  LsUYwwHHNt0IsTp33ipGHSnr3eqij6pt/aumPohUL5P7uZV3bLp3eacuUpr6n4No
                  Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys
                  DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima;
                  d=yahoogroups.com;b=btNTkvIIdZdCHwQcR3cdvlljJBL3pN9waLPXMqoC7oFJgsgKkPzsNa5UpMpXc6hV8X2egYTY6N0c6VdkXt7aW6jgHYX2xhWHRkbXVnIo/s0LgaIZiS4NxhXQ8Pc8xYqj;
                  X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 1220249-m3812
                  X-Apparently-To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                  X-KryptiqSpooler: Handled
                  X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2929
                  Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message
                  Priority: normal
                  X-MS-Has-Attach:
                  X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
                  Thread-Topic: [ksurf] 2 non FAQ Beginner questions
                  thread-index: AcfK/rqOHIYMZqv5Rhyvor/j8D5x9gAA6g+w
                  X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Jul 2007 19:28:31.0074 (UTC)
                  FILETIME=[27C2E420:01C7CB04]
                  X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0
                  X-Yahoo-Profile: mklotz2200
                  Mailing-List: list kitesurf@yahoogroups.com; contact
                  kitesurf-owner@yahoogroups.com
                  Delivered-To: mailing list kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                  List-Id: <kitesurf.yahoogroups.com>
                  Precedence: bulk
                  List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:kitesurf-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com>
                  X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email-ff
                  Return-Path:
                  sentto-1220249-3812-1184959805-jago25_98=hotmail.com@...

                  Actually these messages are out of concern for your safety. I started in
                  the very early days (2 line Naish AR 3.5) when there was no instruction
                  whatsoever. No boards for a while either. I had a lot of boat rescues and
                  finally a kitemare that almost killed me. I quit the sport until 4 yrs ago.
                  I am an adrenaline junky and my buddies figure I have used 8 of my 9
                  lives. I took lessons 4 yrs ago and balked at the cost, but when they
                  compared it to diving lessons and the need for safety instruction (as well
                  as fragile equipment) I understood.
                  I was still scared until I had several months of kiting under my belt.
                  Most people who get lofted on land don't let go soon enought and flying big
                  kites on land is a dangerous mistake to most of us. You can also easily
                  destroy your kite.
                  In the water you need to know how to control your kite and do a self rescue.
                  I have seen and heard of incredible kitemares and it never ceases to amaze
                  me how inventive an out of control kite is in finding novel ways to try and
                  kill you.
                  I herniated a disc in May when my kite inverted in 45mph winds and I
                  couldn't haul it in for self-rescue. I had lines around my legs and my
                  knife in my mouth and could have easily lost a limb from those lines.
                  This is an absolutely awesome sport and advances are being made yearly
                  (never buy older kites) and we are seeing fewer and fewer deaths, but a lot
                  of that is due to understanding the dangers of the sport.
                  It sounds like you plan on flying your kite regardless of our advice. Know
                  your safety systems. Know how to release the chicken loop, flag the kite
                  out, release the kite if shit hits the fan. Know how to rig and check your
                  lines. Know the weather! A squall and doubling of the wind will send you
                  into orbit.
                  MK

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com [mailto:kitesurf@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
                  drmathieu
                  Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 11:49 AM
                  To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [ksurf] 2 non FAQ Beginner questions




                  To the group and Andy,

                  I have belonged to this group for a long time and this last post really
                  disturbed me. Andy, you say that we "hate you"? How do you know?
                  You have never met us.

                  I applaud your enthusiasm to begin to kiting but first things are first.
                  Lessons are a great idea. Awesome idea. I had a 2.8 meter Best trainer
                  that I flew for a year and a half and then shredded it from flying so
                  much. I then bought a HQ Beemer 3.6 meter. I flew both of these kites
                  for about 2 years before I took lessons (Real Kiteboarding). I learned
                  two things from flying my trainer and taking lessons:

                  1. FEAR

                  2. RESPECT

                  As a former Rugby player, I wanted a sport that would keep me in shape.
                  I am 6' 1" and I weigh 230 pounds. I love kiting. I just got back from
                  a trip to Hatteras NC. I took both my Cabrinha Bow Kites with me
                  (12Meter and 16Meter). Each session that I put the kites into the air
                  I had both fear and great respect for the kites.

                  I think you can find GREAT deals on Ebay. Saftey? My 3.6 Meter
                  trainer will drag me down the beach in about 20-25knots of wind. I
                  think I would want to have a harness on a 9Meter just in case I dropped
                  the kite and then the kite would go down the beach and hurt an innocent
                  bystander. I want to be in control of my equipment at all times. I
                  would never think of launching my kites without a harness. I have
                  launched unhooked before and then as soon as possible attached the
                  chicken loop. Both of my Cabrinha bow kites have almost instant
                  DEPOWER. Some of the old kites have almost no depower. Kiting has come
                  a LONG way in a short amount of years. I saw a guy get pulled onto
                  shore and hit a tree in 1999. Luckily the guy was not hurt that bad.
                  That right there showed me that these kites have a LOT of power.

                  We are not saying that we do not like you, just get lessons or learn
                  from someone experienced. Some of us have been there and done that!
                  learn from our mistakes. Kitemare.com is a great start.

                  I hope you have an awesome time kiteboarding and please email the group
                  if you need any advice.

                  I look forward to seeing you on the water,

                  Dr. Mathieu W. Sisk

                  Without one or the other you are going in the wrong direction.
                  , Steve <stevesgroups@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hey Andy
                  >
                  > We're just trying to help you avoid disaster
                  >
                  > If you are determined - maybe you better describe your bar setup. Most
                  > 5 line bars will fly fine unhooked.
                  >
                  > Re: the idea of just dropping the bar - 1. make sure you have a safety
                  > leash that will fully depower the kite when you let go and practice
                  > letting go so it becomes automatic and 2. back in the old days there
                  > were many reports of guys who were unhooked and just holding the bars
                  > in their hands who did not let go even after multiple impacts. There
                  > seems to be some kind of psychological block to it. Probably because
                  by
                  > the time you know you need to let go you are already flying through
                  the
                  > air at speed.
                  >
                  > Hope this helps
                  >
                  > Steve
                  > Carson City, Nevada
                  >
                  > Andy wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Now, I got this 9 and I've decided to heed advice about harnesses so
                  > > as a result I don't want to wear a harness for safety's sake. But
                  the
                  > > only way I can see how to rig the kite is with the depower lines
                  that
                  > > connect to a harness.
                  > >
                  > > So, you can either let me figure it out myself or you can give me a
                  > > hint as to whether this kite is dependent on a harness.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Don't get me wrong, I believe there are very significant dangers.
                  But
                  > > I don't believe that that therefore means I have to pay significant
                  > > money to a professional who extols on and on about those dangers in
                  > > order to boost business. There are cheaper forms of education, and
                  > > other ways of increasing safety. What of people we've known in the
                  > > past who had no lessons and are here to tell the tale?
                  > >
                  > > I didn't expect to win this kite. So when it came though I thought,
                  > > another kite for training? I thought, if I get a non gusty day and
                  the
                  > > wind is light, being a 9 that should treat me a little more lightly
                  so
                  > > let's just get on with it. Let's just get on with it or it'll never
                  > > happen.
                  > >
                  > > Managed to get it up briefly last night with a friend holding the
                  > > harness attachment. Didn't seem too bad. And if it did take me, just
                  > > drop the bar. I'm no expert but is that really so hard?
                  > >
                  > > Anyway, you'll all hate me know so nice knowing you.
                  > >
                  > > - A
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  ----------------------------------------------------------
                  > >
                  > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                  > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                  > > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.9/907 - Release Date:
                  7/18/2007 3:30 PM
                  > >
                  >

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                  DISCLAIMER:
                  This message is intended for the sole use of the addressee, and may contain
                  information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure
                  under applicable law. If you are not the addressee you are hereby notified
                  that you may not use, copy, disclose, or distribute to anyone the message or
                  any information contained in the message. If you have received this message
                  in error, please immediately advise the sender by reply email and delete
                  this message.


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  _________________________________________________________________
                  Tell MSN about your most memorable emails! http://www.emailbritain.co.uk/
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.