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Re: [ksurf] 2 non FAQ Beginner questions

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  • Andy
    Well, I m hopefully meeting up with 2 other guys who ve just done the same this weekend so we ll see what happens to all 3 of us. I remember this stuff when I
    Message 1 of 12 , Jul 19, 2007
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      Well, I'm hopefully meeting up with 2 other guys who've just done the
      same this weekend so we'll see what happens to all 3 of us.

      I remember this stuff when I started surfing. `Always bring company`
      `Get insurance` blah blah. The advice is good and took it onboard. But
      what I loved was just driving off alone somewhere, knowing that my
      life is my responsibility. Like a freeclimbing rock climber I love
      that responsibility of one's own skin. I love knowing that if I slip,
      it's my fault and mine alone. And when I nearly drowned I loved it. I
      loved the thrill of being alive after something like that. I like
      advice, nobody likes orders. Nanny culture, I own these bones. But if
      I expect you to help me afterwards, now that's a different argument,
      and one I heed.

      Now, I got this 9 and I've decided to heed advice about harnesses so
      as a result I don't want to wear a harness for safety's sake. But the
      only way I can see how to rig the kite is with the depower lines that
      connect to a harness.

      So, you can either let me figure it out myself or you can give me a
      hint as to whether this kite is dependent on a harness.

      Don't get me wrong, I believe there are very significant dangers. But
      I don't believe that that therefore means I have to pay significant
      money to a professional who extols on and on about those dangers in
      order to boost business. There are cheaper forms of education, and
      other ways of increasing safety. What of people we've known in the
      past who had no lessons and are here to tell the tale?

      I didn't expect to win this kite. So when it came though I thought,
      another kite for training? I thought, if I get a non gusty day and the
      wind is light, being a 9 that should treat me a little more lightly so
      let's just get on with it. Let's just get on with it or it'll never
      happen.

      Managed to get it up briefly last night with a friend holding the
      harness attachment. Didn't seem too bad. And if it did take me, just
      drop the bar. I'm no expert but is that really so hard?

      Anyway, you'll all hate me know so nice knowing you.

      - A
    • Klotz, Michael MD
      This isn t surfing. Not knowing how to handle a kite can EASILY get you killed, or make you a quad. More importantly, and despite you free spirit, you could
      Message 2 of 12 , Jul 19, 2007
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        This isn't surfing. Not knowing how to handle a kite can EASILY get you killed, or make you a quad. More importantly, and despite you free spirit, you could also kill or seriously injure a bystander. We have all seen experienced kites get into major trouble and that is on the water. We have also seen/heard of multiple deaths and head injuries from ending up on land. Typically from beginners who don't understand the potential power of a kite. I strongly recommend flying a trainer kite until you can fly it blind and then take lessons. Depending on the wind, your larger kite could have the power of a MasterCraft and when you lose control, and you will, it is as if someone hit the throttle. This is advice from kiteboarding fanatics. Be safe or you may not live to enjoy this awesome sport. MK

        -----Original Message-----
        From: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com [mailto:kitesurf@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Andy
        Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 12:17 PM
        To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [ksurf] 2 non FAQ Beginner questions



        Well, I'm hopefully meeting up with 2 other guys who've just done the
        same this weekend so we'll see what happens to all 3 of us.

        I remember this stuff when I started surfing. `Always bring company`
        `Get insurance` blah blah. The advice is good and took it onboard. But
        what I loved was just driving off alone somewhere, knowing that my
        life is my responsibility. Like a freeclimbing rock climber I love
        that responsibility of one's own skin. I love knowing that if I slip,
        it's my fault and mine alone. And when I nearly drowned I loved it. I
        loved the thrill of being alive after something like that. I like
        advice, nobody likes orders. Nanny culture, I own these bones. But if
        I expect you to help me afterwards, now that's a different argument,
        and one I heed.

        Now, I got this 9 and I've decided to heed advice about harnesses so
        as a result I don't want to wear a harness for safety's sake. But the
        only way I can see how to rig the kite is with the depower lines that
        connect to a harness.

        So, you can either let me figure it out myself or you can give me a
        hint as to whether this kite is dependent on a harness.

        Don't get me wrong, I believe there are very significant dangers. But
        I don't believe that that therefore means I have to pay significant
        money to a professional who extols on and on about those dangers in
        order to boost business. There are cheaper forms of education, and
        other ways of increasing safety. What of people we've known in the
        past who had no lessons and are here to tell the tale?

        I didn't expect to win this kite. So when it came though I thought,
        another kite for training? I thought, if I get a non gusty day and the
        wind is light, being a 9 that should treat me a little more lightly so
        let's just get on with it. Let's just get on with it or it'll never
        happen.

        Managed to get it up briefly last night with a friend holding the
        harness attachment. Didn't seem too bad. And if it did take me, just
        drop the bar. I'm no expert but is that really so hard?

        Anyway, you'll all hate me know so nice knowing you.

        - A







        DISCLAIMER:
        This message is intended for the sole use of the addressee, and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the addressee you are hereby notified that you may not use, copy, disclose, or distribute to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received this message in error, please immediately advise the sender by reply email and delete this message.


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Steve
        Hey Andy We re just trying to help you avoid disaster If you are determined - maybe you better describe your bar setup. Most 5 line bars will fly fine
        Message 3 of 12 , Jul 19, 2007
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          Hey Andy

          We're just trying to help you avoid disaster

          If you are determined - maybe you better describe your bar setup. Most
          5 line bars will fly fine unhooked.

          Re: the idea of just dropping the bar - 1. make sure you have a safety
          leash that will fully depower the kite when you let go and practice
          letting go so it becomes automatic and 2. back in the old days there
          were many reports of guys who were unhooked and just holding the bars
          in their hands who did not let go even after multiple impacts. There
          seems to be some kind of psychological block to it. Probably because by
          the time you know you need to let go you are already flying through the
          air at speed.

          Hope this helps

          Steve
          Carson City, Nevada

          Andy wrote:
          >
          >
          > Now, I got this 9 and I've decided to heed advice about harnesses so
          > as a result I don't want to wear a harness for safety's sake. But the
          > only way I can see how to rig the kite is with the depower lines that
          > connect to a harness.
          >
          > So, you can either let me figure it out myself or you can give me a
          > hint as to whether this kite is dependent on a harness.
          >
          >
          > Don't get me wrong, I believe there are very significant dangers. But
          > I don't believe that that therefore means I have to pay significant
          > money to a professional who extols on and on about those dangers in
          > order to boost business. There are cheaper forms of education, and
          > other ways of increasing safety. What of people we've known in the
          > past who had no lessons and are here to tell the tale?
          >
          > I didn't expect to win this kite. So when it came though I thought,
          > another kite for training? I thought, if I get a non gusty day and the
          > wind is light, being a 9 that should treat me a little more lightly so
          > let's just get on with it. Let's just get on with it or it'll never
          > happen.
          >
          > Managed to get it up briefly last night with a friend holding the
          > harness attachment. Didn't seem too bad. And if it did take me, just
          > drop the bar. I'm no expert but is that really so hard?
          >
          > Anyway, you'll all hate me know so nice knowing you.
          >
          > - A
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          >
          > No virus found in this incoming message.
          > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
          > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.9/907 - Release Date: 7/18/2007 3:30 PM
          >
        • drmathieu
          To the group and Andy, I have belonged to this group for a long time and this last post really disturbed me. Andy, you say that we hate you ? How do you
          Message 4 of 12 , Jul 20, 2007
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            To the group and Andy,

            I have belonged to this group for a long time and this last post really
            disturbed me. Andy, you say that we "hate you"? How do you know?
            You have never met us.

            I applaud your enthusiasm to begin to kiting but first things are first.
            Lessons are a great idea. Awesome idea. I had a 2.8 meter Best trainer
            that I flew for a year and a half and then shredded it from flying so
            much. I then bought a HQ Beemer 3.6 meter. I flew both of these kites
            for about 2 years before I took lessons (Real Kiteboarding). I learned
            two things from flying my trainer and taking lessons:

            1. FEAR

            2. RESPECT

            As a former Rugby player, I wanted a sport that would keep me in shape.
            I am 6' 1" and I weigh 230 pounds. I love kiting. I just got back from
            a trip to Hatteras NC. I took both my Cabrinha Bow Kites with me
            (12Meter and 16Meter). Each session that I put the kites into the air
            I had both fear and great respect for the kites.

            I think you can find GREAT deals on Ebay. Saftey? My 3.6 Meter
            trainer will drag me down the beach in about 20-25knots of wind. I
            think I would want to have a harness on a 9Meter just in case I dropped
            the kite and then the kite would go down the beach and hurt an innocent
            bystander. I want to be in control of my equipment at all times. I
            would never think of launching my kites without a harness. I have
            launched unhooked before and then as soon as possible attached the
            chicken loop. Both of my Cabrinha bow kites have almost instant
            DEPOWER. Some of the old kites have almost no depower. Kiting has come
            a LONG way in a short amount of years. I saw a guy get pulled onto
            shore and hit a tree in 1999. Luckily the guy was not hurt that bad.
            That right there showed me that these kites have a LOT of power.

            We are not saying that we do not like you, just get lessons or learn
            from someone experienced. Some of us have been there and done that!
            learn from our mistakes. Kitemare.com is a great start.

            I hope you have an awesome time kiteboarding and please email the group
            if you need any advice.

            I look forward to seeing you on the water,

            Dr. Mathieu W. Sisk





            Without one or the other you are going in the wrong direction.
            , Steve <stevesgroups@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hey Andy
            >
            > We're just trying to help you avoid disaster
            >
            > If you are determined - maybe you better describe your bar setup. Most
            > 5 line bars will fly fine unhooked.
            >
            > Re: the idea of just dropping the bar - 1. make sure you have a safety
            > leash that will fully depower the kite when you let go and practice
            > letting go so it becomes automatic and 2. back in the old days there
            > were many reports of guys who were unhooked and just holding the bars
            > in their hands who did not let go even after multiple impacts. There
            > seems to be some kind of psychological block to it. Probably because
            by
            > the time you know you need to let go you are already flying through
            the
            > air at speed.
            >
            > Hope this helps
            >
            > Steve
            > Carson City, Nevada
            >
            > Andy wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > Now, I got this 9 and I've decided to heed advice about harnesses so
            > > as a result I don't want to wear a harness for safety's sake. But
            the
            > > only way I can see how to rig the kite is with the depower lines
            that
            > > connect to a harness.
            > >
            > > So, you can either let me figure it out myself or you can give me a
            > > hint as to whether this kite is dependent on a harness.
            > >
            > >
            > > Don't get me wrong, I believe there are very significant dangers.
            But
            > > I don't believe that that therefore means I have to pay significant
            > > money to a professional who extols on and on about those dangers in
            > > order to boost business. There are cheaper forms of education, and
            > > other ways of increasing safety. What of people we've known in the
            > > past who had no lessons and are here to tell the tale?
            > >
            > > I didn't expect to win this kite. So when it came though I thought,
            > > another kite for training? I thought, if I get a non gusty day and
            the
            > > wind is light, being a 9 that should treat me a little more lightly
            so
            > > let's just get on with it. Let's just get on with it or it'll never
            > > happen.
            > >
            > > Managed to get it up briefly last night with a friend holding the
            > > harness attachment. Didn't seem too bad. And if it did take me, just
            > > drop the bar. I'm no expert but is that really so hard?
            > >
            > > Anyway, you'll all hate me know so nice knowing you.
            > >
            > > - A
            > >
            > >
            > >
            ------------------------------------------------------------------------
            > >
            > > No virus found in this incoming message.
            > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
            > > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.9/907 - Release Date:
            7/18/2007 3:30 PM
            > >
            >




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Klotz, Michael MD
            Actually these messages are out of concern for your safety. I started in the very early days (2 line Naish AR 3.5) when there was no instruction whatsoever.
            Message 5 of 12 , Jul 20, 2007
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              Actually these messages are out of concern for your safety. I started in the very early days (2 line Naish AR 3.5) when there was no instruction whatsoever. No boards for a while either. I had a lot of boat rescues and finally a kitemare that almost killed me. I quit the sport until 4 yrs ago. I am an adrenaline junky and my buddies figure I have used 8 of my 9 lives. I took lessons 4 yrs ago and balked at the cost, but when they compared it to diving lessons and the need for safety instruction (as well as fragile equipment) I understood.
              I was still scared until I had several months of kiting under my belt.
              Most people who get lofted on land don't let go soon enought and flying big kites on land is a dangerous mistake to most of us. You can also easily destroy your kite.
              In the water you need to know how to control your kite and do a self rescue. I have seen and heard of incredible kitemares and it never ceases to amaze me how inventive an out of control kite is in finding novel ways to try and kill you.
              I herniated a disc in May when my kite inverted in 45mph winds and I couldn't haul it in for self-rescue. I had lines around my legs and my knife in my mouth and could have easily lost a limb from those lines.
              This is an absolutely awesome sport and advances are being made yearly (never buy older kites) and we are seeing fewer and fewer deaths, but a lot of that is due to understanding the dangers of the sport.
              It sounds like you plan on flying your kite regardless of our advice. Know your safety systems. Know how to release the chicken loop, flag the kite out, release the kite if shit hits the fan. Know how to rig and check your lines. Know the weather! A squall and doubling of the wind will send you into orbit.
              MK

              -----Original Message-----
              From: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com [mailto:kitesurf@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of drmathieu
              Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 11:49 AM
              To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [ksurf] 2 non FAQ Beginner questions




              To the group and Andy,

              I have belonged to this group for a long time and this last post really
              disturbed me. Andy, you say that we "hate you"? How do you know?
              You have never met us.

              I applaud your enthusiasm to begin to kiting but first things are first.
              Lessons are a great idea. Awesome idea. I had a 2.8 meter Best trainer
              that I flew for a year and a half and then shredded it from flying so
              much. I then bought a HQ Beemer 3.6 meter. I flew both of these kites
              for about 2 years before I took lessons (Real Kiteboarding). I learned
              two things from flying my trainer and taking lessons:

              1. FEAR

              2. RESPECT

              As a former Rugby player, I wanted a sport that would keep me in shape.
              I am 6' 1" and I weigh 230 pounds. I love kiting. I just got back from
              a trip to Hatteras NC. I took both my Cabrinha Bow Kites with me
              (12Meter and 16Meter). Each session that I put the kites into the air
              I had both fear and great respect for the kites.

              I think you can find GREAT deals on Ebay. Saftey? My 3.6 Meter
              trainer will drag me down the beach in about 20-25knots of wind. I
              think I would want to have a harness on a 9Meter just in case I dropped
              the kite and then the kite would go down the beach and hurt an innocent
              bystander. I want to be in control of my equipment at all times. I
              would never think of launching my kites without a harness. I have
              launched unhooked before and then as soon as possible attached the
              chicken loop. Both of my Cabrinha bow kites have almost instant
              DEPOWER. Some of the old kites have almost no depower. Kiting has come
              a LONG way in a short amount of years. I saw a guy get pulled onto
              shore and hit a tree in 1999. Luckily the guy was not hurt that bad.
              That right there showed me that these kites have a LOT of power.

              We are not saying that we do not like you, just get lessons or learn
              from someone experienced. Some of us have been there and done that!
              learn from our mistakes. Kitemare.com is a great start.

              I hope you have an awesome time kiteboarding and please email the group
              if you need any advice.

              I look forward to seeing you on the water,

              Dr. Mathieu W. Sisk

              Without one or the other you are going in the wrong direction.
              , Steve <stevesgroups@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hey Andy
              >
              > We're just trying to help you avoid disaster
              >
              > If you are determined - maybe you better describe your bar setup. Most
              > 5 line bars will fly fine unhooked.
              >
              > Re: the idea of just dropping the bar - 1. make sure you have a safety
              > leash that will fully depower the kite when you let go and practice
              > letting go so it becomes automatic and 2. back in the old days there
              > were many reports of guys who were unhooked and just holding the bars
              > in their hands who did not let go even after multiple impacts. There
              > seems to be some kind of psychological block to it. Probably because
              by
              > the time you know you need to let go you are already flying through
              the
              > air at speed.
              >
              > Hope this helps
              >
              > Steve
              > Carson City, Nevada
              >
              > Andy wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > > Now, I got this 9 and I've decided to heed advice about harnesses so
              > > as a result I don't want to wear a harness for safety's sake. But
              the
              > > only way I can see how to rig the kite is with the depower lines
              that
              > > connect to a harness.
              > >
              > > So, you can either let me figure it out myself or you can give me a
              > > hint as to whether this kite is dependent on a harness.
              > >
              > >
              > > Don't get me wrong, I believe there are very significant dangers.
              But
              > > I don't believe that that therefore means I have to pay significant
              > > money to a professional who extols on and on about those dangers in
              > > order to boost business. There are cheaper forms of education, and
              > > other ways of increasing safety. What of people we've known in the
              > > past who had no lessons and are here to tell the tale?
              > >
              > > I didn't expect to win this kite. So when it came though I thought,
              > > another kite for training? I thought, if I get a non gusty day and
              the
              > > wind is light, being a 9 that should treat me a little more lightly
              so
              > > let's just get on with it. Let's just get on with it or it'll never
              > > happen.
              > >
              > > Managed to get it up briefly last night with a friend holding the
              > > harness attachment. Didn't seem too bad. And if it did take me, just
              > > drop the bar. I'm no expert but is that really so hard?
              > >
              > > Anyway, you'll all hate me know so nice knowing you.
              > >
              > > - A
              > >
              > >
              > >
              ----------------------------------------------------------
              > >
              > > No virus found in this incoming message.
              > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
              > > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.9/907 - Release Date:
              7/18/2007 3:30 PM
              > >
              >

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







              DISCLAIMER:
              This message is intended for the sole use of the addressee, and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the addressee you are hereby notified that you may not use, copy, disclose, or distribute to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received this message in error, please immediately advise the sender by reply email and delete this message.


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • loco 4 olas
              Mate-I ve been surfing for over 30 years and won a coupla Aussie titles doing it-I ve been kiting for 6 years now-the dangers are incomparable-kiting is way
              Message 6 of 12 , Jul 21, 2007
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                Mate-I've been surfing for over 30 years and won a coupla' Aussie titles doing it-I've been kiting for 6 years now-the dangers are incomparable-kiting is way more risky than anything but surfing Teahpou-I know, I do both.

                And in kiting (unlike to a large extent in rock climbing) your fuck ups can have HUGE negative consequences for bystanders.

                Let go of your ego and put your newbie self into a school to get the basics-you have NO idea.

                Hey-I've been climbing sand hills-this weekend I'm off to El Cap with my running shoes and a bottle of Sprite-wanna' climb below me-duh!



                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Andy
                To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 5:16 AM
                Subject: Re: [ksurf] 2 non FAQ Beginner questions


                Well, I'm hopefully meeting up with 2 other guys who've just done the
                same this weekend so we'll see what happens to all 3 of us.

                I remember this stuff when I started surfing. `Always bring company`
                `Get insurance` blah blah. The advice is good and took it onboard. But
                what I loved was just driving off alone somewhere, knowing that my
                life is my responsibility. Like a freeclimbing rock climber I love
                that responsibility of one's own skin. I love knowing that if I slip,
                it's my fault and mine alone. And when I nearly drowned I loved it. I
                loved the thrill of being alive after something like that. I like
                advice, nobody likes orders. Nanny culture, I own these bones. But if
                I expect you to help me afterwards, now that's a different argument,
                and one I heed.

                Now, I got this 9 and I've decided to heed advice about harnesses so
                as a result I don't want to wear a harness for safety's sake. But the
                only way I can see how to rig the kite is with the depower lines that
                connect to a harness.

                So, you can either let me figure it out myself or you can give me a
                hint as to whether this kite is dependent on a harness.

                Don't get me wrong, I believe there are very significant dangers. But
                I don't believe that that therefore means I have to pay significant
                money to a professional who extols on and on about those dangers in
                order to boost business. There are cheaper forms of education, and
                other ways of increasing safety. What of people we've known in the
                past who had no lessons and are here to tell the tale?

                I didn't expect to win this kite. So when it came though I thought,
                another kite for training? I thought, if I get a non gusty day and the
                wind is light, being a 9 that should treat me a little more lightly so
                let's just get on with it. Let's just get on with it or it'll never
                happen.

                Managed to get it up briefly last night with a friend holding the
                harness attachment. Didn't seem too bad. And if it did take me, just
                drop the bar. I'm no expert but is that really so hard?

                Anyway, you'll all hate me know so nice knowing you.

                - A





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Jago Pearce
                For me it s purely just the money, if it was £100 that would be fine ... From: loco 4 olas Reply-To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com To:
                Message 7 of 12 , Jul 22, 2007
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                  For me it's purely just the money, if it was �100 that would be fine

                  ----Original Message Follows----
                  From: "loco 4 olas" <loco4olas@...>
                  Reply-To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                  To: <kitesurf@yahoogroups.com>
                  Subject: Re: [ksurf] 2 non FAQ Beginner questions
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                  Mate-I've been surfing for over 30 years and won a coupla' Aussie titles
                  doing it-I've been kiting for 6 years now-the dangers are
                  incomparable-kiting is way more risky than anything but surfing Teahpou-I
                  know, I do both.

                  And in kiting (unlike to a large extent in rock climbing) your fuck ups can
                  have HUGE negative consequences for bystanders.

                  Let go of your ego and put your newbie self into a school to get the
                  basics-you have NO idea.

                  Hey-I've been climbing sand hills-this weekend I'm off to El Cap with my
                  running shoes and a bottle of Sprite-wanna' climb below me-duh!



                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Andy
                  To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 5:16 AM
                  Subject: Re: [ksurf] 2 non FAQ Beginner questions


                  Well, I'm hopefully meeting up with 2 other guys who've just done the
                  same this weekend so we'll see what happens to all 3 of us.

                  I remember this stuff when I started surfing. `Always bring company`
                  `Get insurance` blah blah. The advice is good and took it onboard. But
                  what I loved was just driving off alone somewhere, knowing that my
                  life is my responsibility. Like a freeclimbing rock climber I love
                  that responsibility of one's own skin. I love knowing that if I slip,
                  it's my fault and mine alone. And when I nearly drowned I loved it. I
                  loved the thrill of being alive after something like that. I like
                  advice, nobody likes orders. Nanny culture, I own these bones. But if
                  I expect you to help me afterwards, now that's a different argument,
                  and one I heed.

                  Now, I got this 9 and I've decided to heed advice about harnesses so
                  as a result I don't want to wear a harness for safety's sake. But the
                  only way I can see how to rig the kite is with the depower lines that
                  connect to a harness.

                  So, you can either let me figure it out myself or you can give me a
                  hint as to whether this kite is dependent on a harness.

                  Don't get me wrong, I believe there are very significant dangers. But
                  I don't believe that that therefore means I have to pay significant
                  money to a professional who extols on and on about those dangers in
                  order to boost business. There are cheaper forms of education, and
                  other ways of increasing safety. What of people we've known in the
                  past who had no lessons and are here to tell the tale?

                  I didn't expect to win this kite. So when it came though I thought,
                  another kite for training? I thought, if I get a non gusty day and the
                  wind is light, being a 9 that should treat me a little more lightly so
                  let's just get on with it. Let's just get on with it or it'll never
                  happen.

                  Managed to get it up briefly last night with a friend holding the
                  harness attachment. Didn't seem too bad. And if it did take me, just
                  drop the bar. I'm no expert but is that really so hard?

                  Anyway, you'll all hate me know so nice knowing you.

                  - A





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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                • Jago Pearce
                  Any tips for finding reasonably priced lessons here in the UK? ... From: Klotz, Michael MD Reply-To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jul 22, 2007
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                    Any tips for finding reasonably priced lessons here in the UK?

                    ----Original Message Follows----
                    From: "Klotz, Michael MD" <michael.klotz@...>
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                    Subject: RE: [ksurf] 2 non FAQ Beginner questions
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                    Actually these messages are out of concern for your safety. I started in
                    the very early days (2 line Naish AR 3.5) when there was no instruction
                    whatsoever. No boards for a while either. I had a lot of boat rescues and
                    finally a kitemare that almost killed me. I quit the sport until 4 yrs ago.
                    I am an adrenaline junky and my buddies figure I have used 8 of my 9
                    lives. I took lessons 4 yrs ago and balked at the cost, but when they
                    compared it to diving lessons and the need for safety instruction (as well
                    as fragile equipment) I understood.
                    I was still scared until I had several months of kiting under my belt.
                    Most people who get lofted on land don't let go soon enought and flying big
                    kites on land is a dangerous mistake to most of us. You can also easily
                    destroy your kite.
                    In the water you need to know how to control your kite and do a self rescue.
                    I have seen and heard of incredible kitemares and it never ceases to amaze
                    me how inventive an out of control kite is in finding novel ways to try and
                    kill you.
                    I herniated a disc in May when my kite inverted in 45mph winds and I
                    couldn't haul it in for self-rescue. I had lines around my legs and my
                    knife in my mouth and could have easily lost a limb from those lines.
                    This is an absolutely awesome sport and advances are being made yearly
                    (never buy older kites) and we are seeing fewer and fewer deaths, but a lot
                    of that is due to understanding the dangers of the sport.
                    It sounds like you plan on flying your kite regardless of our advice. Know
                    your safety systems. Know how to release the chicken loop, flag the kite
                    out, release the kite if shit hits the fan. Know how to rig and check your
                    lines. Know the weather! A squall and doubling of the wind will send you
                    into orbit.
                    MK

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com [mailto:kitesurf@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
                    drmathieu
                    Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 11:49 AM
                    To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [ksurf] 2 non FAQ Beginner questions




                    To the group and Andy,

                    I have belonged to this group for a long time and this last post really
                    disturbed me. Andy, you say that we "hate you"? How do you know?
                    You have never met us.

                    I applaud your enthusiasm to begin to kiting but first things are first.
                    Lessons are a great idea. Awesome idea. I had a 2.8 meter Best trainer
                    that I flew for a year and a half and then shredded it from flying so
                    much. I then bought a HQ Beemer 3.6 meter. I flew both of these kites
                    for about 2 years before I took lessons (Real Kiteboarding). I learned
                    two things from flying my trainer and taking lessons:

                    1. FEAR

                    2. RESPECT

                    As a former Rugby player, I wanted a sport that would keep me in shape.
                    I am 6' 1" and I weigh 230 pounds. I love kiting. I just got back from
                    a trip to Hatteras NC. I took both my Cabrinha Bow Kites with me
                    (12Meter and 16Meter). Each session that I put the kites into the air
                    I had both fear and great respect for the kites.

                    I think you can find GREAT deals on Ebay. Saftey? My 3.6 Meter
                    trainer will drag me down the beach in about 20-25knots of wind. I
                    think I would want to have a harness on a 9Meter just in case I dropped
                    the kite and then the kite would go down the beach and hurt an innocent
                    bystander. I want to be in control of my equipment at all times. I
                    would never think of launching my kites without a harness. I have
                    launched unhooked before and then as soon as possible attached the
                    chicken loop. Both of my Cabrinha bow kites have almost instant
                    DEPOWER. Some of the old kites have almost no depower. Kiting has come
                    a LONG way in a short amount of years. I saw a guy get pulled onto
                    shore and hit a tree in 1999. Luckily the guy was not hurt that bad.
                    That right there showed me that these kites have a LOT of power.

                    We are not saying that we do not like you, just get lessons or learn
                    from someone experienced. Some of us have been there and done that!
                    learn from our mistakes. Kitemare.com is a great start.

                    I hope you have an awesome time kiteboarding and please email the group
                    if you need any advice.

                    I look forward to seeing you on the water,

                    Dr. Mathieu W. Sisk

                    Without one or the other you are going in the wrong direction.
                    , Steve <stevesgroups@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hey Andy
                    >
                    > We're just trying to help you avoid disaster
                    >
                    > If you are determined - maybe you better describe your bar setup. Most
                    > 5 line bars will fly fine unhooked.
                    >
                    > Re: the idea of just dropping the bar - 1. make sure you have a safety
                    > leash that will fully depower the kite when you let go and practice
                    > letting go so it becomes automatic and 2. back in the old days there
                    > were many reports of guys who were unhooked and just holding the bars
                    > in their hands who did not let go even after multiple impacts. There
                    > seems to be some kind of psychological block to it. Probably because
                    by
                    > the time you know you need to let go you are already flying through
                    the
                    > air at speed.
                    >
                    > Hope this helps
                    >
                    > Steve
                    > Carson City, Nevada
                    >
                    > Andy wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Now, I got this 9 and I've decided to heed advice about harnesses so
                    > > as a result I don't want to wear a harness for safety's sake. But
                    the
                    > > only way I can see how to rig the kite is with the depower lines
                    that
                    > > connect to a harness.
                    > >
                    > > So, you can either let me figure it out myself or you can give me a
                    > > hint as to whether this kite is dependent on a harness.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Don't get me wrong, I believe there are very significant dangers.
                    But
                    > > I don't believe that that therefore means I have to pay significant
                    > > money to a professional who extols on and on about those dangers in
                    > > order to boost business. There are cheaper forms of education, and
                    > > other ways of increasing safety. What of people we've known in the
                    > > past who had no lessons and are here to tell the tale?
                    > >
                    > > I didn't expect to win this kite. So when it came though I thought,
                    > > another kite for training? I thought, if I get a non gusty day and
                    the
                    > > wind is light, being a 9 that should treat me a little more lightly
                    so
                    > > let's just get on with it. Let's just get on with it or it'll never
                    > > happen.
                    > >
                    > > Managed to get it up briefly last night with a friend holding the
                    > > harness attachment. Didn't seem too bad. And if it did take me, just
                    > > drop the bar. I'm no expert but is that really so hard?
                    > >
                    > > Anyway, you'll all hate me know so nice knowing you.
                    > >
                    > > - A
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    ----------------------------------------------------------
                    > >
                    > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                    > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                    > > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.9/907 - Release Date:
                    7/18/2007 3:30 PM
                    > >
                    >

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