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Re: Newbie Question on Kite to Buy (Big Air)

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  • jim cancil
    I ll pipe in because I m your size (and a few years ahead) ...and jumping is probably the most fun - including jumping waves - thing you can do out there. 1.
    Message 1 of 9 , Apr 11, 2007
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      I'll pipe in because I'm your size (and a few years ahead) ...and jumping is probably the
      most fun - including jumping waves - thing you can do out there.

      1. You're simply too heavy to jump much beyond bunny hops in those conditions. You'd
      need winds into the low-20's to ramp up. ..maybe if you lost 60lbs.

      It's simple physics compounded by your inexperience and the fact that a kite is more like
      an overpowered airplane flown by a maniac chimp than your normal skiboat tow. The
      advantage you have over others: you know what the board feels like - but that's the easy
      bit.

      2. Your best kites are 12 thru 16's. Don't get suckered into lumbering 18 - 20's that
      overpower easily, or oddball designs/brands that you need to join a cult to fly. (..former
      18 and 20's user and cult member here)

      There is an argument about whether C-kites or Bows jump better ...but the later versions
      of both, depower well and relaunch well. Stick with one of the top brands. I personally
      have found North over the years to be the most linear in their progress but also fly Naish
      and RRD.

      3. There is NO substitute for lessons. God ..how much time I wasted teaching myself.
      And I'm damn lucky that all I did early was eat a lot of water. I did have a line nearly
      remove a finger (perm.nerve/vascular damage) last year in the surf - but that was my
      fault. Being stoopid: trying to kite in too light air. And, I knew better...

      4. Used gear can be great. Initailly, make sure it is complete and less than a couple of
      seasons old. Make sure you search the fourms for upgrades and tweaks: all brands see to
      get further development in the field. Your wakeboard probably has too much rocker to be
      useful here. I'd take lessons on instructor's gear before you buy.

      ...going somewhere for 4-5days: Hattteras, Cabarete, SPI ...is probably the best way to get
      this fixed in your bone marrow.

      j i m






      > I have been a wakeboarder for 10+ years and would like to try
      > kiteboarding. I am interest is in jumping and have been looking
      > around ebay for a kite to buy so my question is which brand and model
      > would fit this use? The winds I would be looking at are between 8-
      > 15mph on most days and I way around 205lbs. thanks
      >
    • Lex Lissauer
      Hi Jim, I like your writing style. And I feel compelled to react. You re simply too heavy to jump much beyond bunny hops in those conditions. - I clearly
      Message 2 of 9 , Apr 11, 2007
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        Hi Jim,


        I like your writing style. And I feel compelled to react.

        "You're simply too heavy to jump much beyond bunny hops in those conditions." - I clearly disagree with that. With the equipment I recommend (high) jumping IS possible in these conditions. Especially raileys and backloops, also unhooked, because this kite generates speed and that is what is needed more than lift. The disadvantages are the price of the kite and that it will be slow steering. As this man wants to sail wakeboard style, the latter is no problem, for this you don't need a fast steering kite, in the contrary.
        "Don't get suckered into lumbering 18 - 20's that overpower easily" - The kite I recommended has a big power range  (see: http://www.flysurfer.com/images/content/2006_11/windbereich_speed2.gif).
        I agree on points 3 & 4 totally. If you can afford it, go to a windy location and take a weak at least to learn kitesurfing there. Personally I recommend Ceará Brasil (just don't go in March or April) as it is the most wind-certain spot I know.

        "I personally have found North over the years to be the most linear in their progress but also fly Naish and RRD. "
        You are the first person with a mixed quiver Naish/North. So I see you are really anti-cult. I think North's reputation and marketing are better than their kites, especially concerning robustness. But I cherish your healthy opportunism above loyalty to brand. You set a good example.

        I fly Best Waroo myself (which is the cult kite on this forum is my impression). My largest kite is 12 m² and I am not considering buying anything bigger, but I weight 72 kg and we have 20+ knots wind often here in Holland.


        Good luck and happy kiting.



        On 4/11/07, jim cancil <wetstuff@... > wrote:


        I'll pipe in because I'm your size (and a few years ahead) ...and jumping is probably the
        most fun - including jumping waves - thing you can do out there.

        1. You're simply too heavy to jump much beyond bunny hops in those conditions. You'd
        need winds into the low-20's to ramp up. ..maybe if you lost 60lbs.

        It's simple physics compounded by your inexperience and the fact that a kite is more like
        an overpowered airplane flown by a maniac chimp than your normal skiboat tow. The
        advantage you have over others: you know what the board feels like - but that's the easy
        bit.

        2. Your best kites are 12 thru 16's. Don't get suckered into lumbering 18 - 20's that
        overpower easily, or oddball designs/brands that you need to join a cult to fly. (..former
        18 and 20's user and cult member here)

        There is an argument about whether C-kites or Bows jump better ...but the later versions
        of both, depower well and relaunch well. Stick with one of the top brands. I personally
        have found North over the years to be the most linear in their progress but also fly Naish
        and RRD.

        3. There is NO substitute for lessons. God ..how much time I wasted teaching myself.
        And I'm damn lucky that all I did early was eat a lot of water. I did have a line nearly
        remove a finger (perm.nerve/vascular damage) last year in the surf - but that was my
        fault. Being stoopid: trying to kite in too light air. And, I knew better...

        4. Used gear can be great. Initailly, make sure it is complete and less than a couple of
        seasons old. Make sure you search the fourms for upgrades and tweaks: all brands see to
        get further development in the field. Your wakeboard probably has too much rocker to be
        useful here. I'd take lessons on instructor's gear before you buy.

        ...going somewhere for 4-5days: Hattteras, Cabarete, SPI ...is probably the best way to get
        this fixed in your bone marrow.

        j i m



        > I have been a wakeboarder for 10+ years and would like to try
        > kiteboarding. I am interest is in jumping and have been looking
        > around ebay for a kite to buy so my question is which brand and model
        > would fit this use? The winds I would be looking at are between 8-
        > 15mph on most days and I way around 205lbs. thanks
        >


      • jim cancil
        Lex: Thanks. Good point on the wake-style moves: I didn t think about them. I don t do low, high-speed moves because almost everytime I ve tried, I either
        Message 3 of 9 , Apr 12, 2007
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          Lex: Thanks. Good point on the wake-style moves: I didn't think about them. I don't do
          low, high-speed moves because almost everytime I've tried, I either bugger my Rotator
          Cuff or otherwise damage my self esteem. I prefer to 'reach for the sky'. I 'm afraid of
          heights and find this as thrilling as a carnival ride. As a surfer first, there is nothing more
          thrilling that using the face of a wave to 'ramp' off ..and, of course, to NOT have to paddle
          like a wheezing fool to get outside ..is a big bonus.

          I've had two or three Best kites. They not only had a two-for-one program a few years
          ago, but good journeyman kites. I backed away from them because of some of their
          objectification of women and somewhat hats-on-sideways attitude. I just didn't feel that
          they were a group I would want to hang with. Shannon seems great in his schooling vids
          and I met Peter Stewie (apology for spelling) in Cabarete..but. The early Waroos I saw
          seemed to be too active in the air; recent ones look good.

          Brazil is a stretch for me - mentally even. I can speak a bit of Spanish and Cabarete is only
          1.5hrs from Miami, so it seems close. I guess everything is a distance for you - plus you
          euros don't seem to fear travel as much as we Yanks. ...and you take more time off!

          Kite brand-loyalty was simply earned. The maybe seven Norths I've had never presented a
          problem, but then perhaps I don't kite them hard enough ..ala wake-style ..to have had a
          problem. I found the Euro kites like Takoon and GK to be built a little lighter built ..but
          RRd perhaps the best, underrepresented brand in the US. I wished Takoon was again sold
          in the US. ...the profits would not go to Bush.

          ....and Lex, whenever I see one of those beach cams over by you: it 'always' seems to be
          blowing. It probably would have kept me off the kites. We can get some fairly seady SW at
          about 12-15kts ...light onshore in Summer and gusty N/NW into the low 20's when cold
          fronts come thru, so it's pretty nice from May-November. Good luck to you - nice chat.

          J i m






          --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "Lex Lissauer" <lex.lissauer@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi Jim,
          >
          >
          > I like your writing style. And I feel compelled to react.
          >
          > "You're simply too heavy to jump much beyond bunny hops in those
          > conditions." - I clearly disagree with that. With the equipment I recommend
          > (high) jumping IS possible in these conditions. Especially raileys and
          > backloops, also unhooked, because this kite generates speed and that is what
          > is needed more than lift. The disadvantages are the price of the kite and
          > that it will be slow steering. As this man wants to sail wakeboard style,
          > the latter is no problem, for this you don't need a fast steering kite, in
          > the contrary.
          > "Don't get suckered into lumbering 18 - 20's that overpower easily" - The
          > kite I recommended has a big power range (see:
          > http://www.flysurfer.com/images/content/2006_11/windbereich_speed2.gif).
          > I agree on points 3 & 4 totally. If you can afford it, go to a windy
          > location and take a weak at least to learn kitesurfing there. Personally I
          > recommend Ceará Brasil (just don't go in March or April) as it is the most
          > wind-certain spot I know.
          >
          > "I personally have found North over the years to be the most linear in their
          > progress but also fly Naish and RRD. "
          > You are the first person with a mixed quiver Naish/North. So I see you are
          > really anti-cult. I think North's reputation and marketing are better than
          > their kites, especially concerning robustness. But I cherish your healthy
          > opportunism above loyalty to brand. You set a good example.
          >
          > I fly Best Waroo myself (which is the cult kite on this forum is my
          > impression). My largest kite is 12 m² and I am not considering buying
          > anything bigger, but I weight 72 kg and we have 20+ knots wind often here in
          > Holland.
          >
          >
          > Good luck and happy kiting.
          >
          >
          >
          > On 4/11/07, jim cancil <wetstuff@...> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > I'll pipe in because I'm your size (and a few years ahead) ...and jumping
          > > is probably the
          > > most fun - including jumping waves - thing you can do out there.
          > >
          > > 1. You're simply too heavy to jump much beyond bunny hops in those
          > > conditions. You'd
          > > need winds into the low-20's to ramp up. ..maybe if you lost 60lbs.
          > >
          > > It's simple physics compounded by your inexperience and the fact that a
          > > kite is more like
          > > an overpowered airplane flown by a maniac chimp than your normal skiboat
          > > tow. The
          > > advantage you have over others: you know what the board feels like - but
          > > that's the easy
          > > bit.
          > >
          > > 2. Your best kites are 12 thru 16's. Don't get suckered into lumbering 18
          > > - 20's that
          > > overpower easily, or oddball designs/brands that you need to join a cult
          > > to fly. (..former
          > > 18 and 20's user and cult member here)
          > >
          > > There is an argument about whether C-kites or Bows jump better ...but the
          > > later versions
          > > of both, depower well and relaunch well. Stick with one of the top brands.
          > > I personally
          > > have found North over the years to be the most linear in their progress
          > > but also fly Naish
          > > and RRD.
          > >
          > > 3. There is NO substitute for lessons. God ..how much time I wasted
          > > teaching myself.
          > > And I'm damn lucky that all I did early was eat a lot of water. I did have
          > > a line nearly
          > > remove a finger (perm.nerve/vascular damage) last year in the surf - but
          > > that was my
          > > fault. Being stoopid: trying to kite in too light air. And, I knew
          > > better...
          > >
          > > 4. Used gear can be great. Initailly, make sure it is complete and less
          > > than a couple of
          > > seasons old. Make sure you search the fourms for upgrades and tweaks: all
          > > brands see to
          > > get further development in the field. Your wakeboard probably has too much
          > > rocker to be
          > > useful here. I'd take lessons on instructor's gear before you buy.
          > >
          > > ...going somewhere for 4-5days: Hattteras, Cabarete, SPI ...is probably
          > > the best way to get
          > > this fixed in your bone marrow.
          > >
          > > j i m
          > >
          > >
          > > > I have been a wakeboarder for 10+ years and would like to try
          > > > kiteboarding. I am interest is in jumping and have been looking
          > > > around ebay for a kite to buy so my question is which brand and model
          > > > would fit this use? The winds I would be looking at are between 8-
          > > > 15mph on most days and I way around 205lbs. thanks
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          >
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