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Newbie Question on Kite to Buy (Big Air)

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  • kc_philipm
    I have been a wakeboarder for 10+ years and would like to try kiteboarding. I am interest is in jumping and have been looking around ebay for a kite to buy so
    Message 1 of 9 , Apr 10, 2007
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      I have been a wakeboarder for 10+ years and would like to try
      kiteboarding. I am interest is in jumping and have been looking
      around ebay for a kite to buy so my question is which brand and model
      would fit this use? The winds I would be looking at are between 8-
      15mph on most days and I way around 205lbs. thanks
    • Dean Crowell
      All I can say from my own experience is buy a new kite at close-out. I bought my first one used from a guy at the beach for $200 - He asked: why buy a new
      Message 2 of 9 , Apr 10, 2007
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        All I can say from my own experience is buy a new kite at close-out. I bought my first one used from a guy at the beach for $200 - He asked: " why buy a new kite that you're going to crash all the time while  learning?"  which makes sense, but then later I discovered the LE strut had a slow leak ($175) and the main also had a leak ($75), plus I had to learn to repair myself (I guess that was OK). The dude didn't sell me a lemon on purpose - a grain of sand can wear a small hole and that's what can happen with used kites. I got a complete rig at from Phil at Kitesite.net for about $450. I'd say you need a 14 - 16M.

        Dean 


        On Apr 10, 2007, at 9:52 AM, kc_philipm wrote:

        I have been a wakeboarder for 10+ years and would like to try
        kiteboarding. I am interest is in jumping and have been looking
        around ebay for a kite to buy so my question is which brand and model
        would fit this use? The winds I would be looking at are between 8-
        15mph on most days and I way around 205lbs. thanks


      • Steve
        Hey Dude: In order to jump, under control, you have to know how to kiteboard. Wakeboarding for 10 years won t hurt any but it won t help that much either.
        Message 3 of 9 , Apr 10, 2007
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          Hey Dude:

          In order to jump, under control, you have to know how to kiteboard.
          Wakeboarding for 10 years won't hurt any but it won't help that much
          either. You need to learn how to kiteboard or your first jump could
          easily be your last : ) Check out - http://www.kitesurfingschool.org
          for tons of info that will help alot!!

          At 205 lbs a 14 meter kite will get you going in15 mph winds but at 8
          mph most ks kites are just beginning to hold up their own weight.

          Do yourself a big favor - start out with lessons.

          Hope this helps

          Steve


          http://www.kitesurfingschool.org/faqs.htm

          kc_philipm wrote:
          >
          > I have been a wakeboarder for 10+ years and would like to try
          > kiteboarding. I am interest is in jumping and have been looking
          > around ebay for a kite to buy so my question is which brand and model
          > would fit this use? The winds I would be looking at are between 8-
          > 15mph on most days and I way around 205lbs. thanks
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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        • alex.unsworth@ubs.com
          11m Best Waroo - for ease of learning, good value for money & decent wind range ________________________________ From: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
          Message 4 of 9 , Apr 10, 2007
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            11m Best Waroo - for ease of learning, good value for money & decent wind range


            From: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com [mailto:kitesurf@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kc_philipm
            Sent: 11 April 2007 00:53
            To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [ksurf] Newbie Question on Kite to Buy (Big Air)

            I have been a wakeboarder for 10+ years and would like to try
            kiteboarding. I am interest is in jumping and have been looking
            around ebay for a kite to buy so my question is which brand and model
            would fit this use? The winds I would be looking at are between 8-
            15mph on most days and I way around 205lbs. thanks

          • Zriik
            Im a beginner also, heres what Im doing; So far Iv bought 2 kites, both Peter Lynn Bombas. Both bought new at close -out. 1 is a 10m I got last year, I forget
            Message 5 of 9 , Apr 10, 2007
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              Im a beginner also, heres what Im doing; So far Iv bought 2 kites,
              both Peter Lynn Bombas. Both bought new at close -out. 1 is a 10m I
              got last year, I forget the price, but approx $400, the other, I just
              got is a 17m for $175 at closeout. Iv been teaching myself to fly the
              10m using handles which a friend gave me after he switched to a bar
              with his 3m power kite. I like these handles because the kite is not
              attached to me, (theyr a great work out too)so when the wind gusts if
              its too much, it pulls a handle out of my hand instead of pulling me
              into the air as a bar cliped to my waist might. As Iv been getting
              better (Its a long process for me as I dont get out often) I take the
              kite out in stronger winds, and last time I made a small jump. Soon Im
              thinking to put on my roller blades and try riding arround a little.
              Iv not been in the water yet with the kite, but I live in NYC and its
              been cold lately..
              The Peter Lynn kites are twin skin, 4 line kites inflated by the wind
              going into its vents, so no pump, and no leaks! And my 10m is tough,
              whenever Im out I hammer it 'cause I just lose control sometimes. it
              hits the ground hard, but no wear or breakage as yet. Im impressed.
              Also, it fits in a small backpack which is great for the subway and is
              light weight.
              Anyone have an old board theyre done with? Id like a larger one
              good luck





              --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "kc_philipm" <kc_philipm@...> wrote:
              >
              > I have been a wakeboarder for 10+ years and would like to try
              > kiteboarding. I am interest is in jumping and have been looking
              > around ebay for a kite to buy so my question is which brand and
              model
              > would fit this use? The winds I would be looking at are between 8-
              > 15mph on most days and I way around 205lbs. thanks
              >
            • llissauer
              Wow! Heavy dude wants to kite in very light wind. (Or my conversions are wrong: You are 92 kg and want to sail in 7-13 knots?) I have a few advices for you:
              Message 6 of 9 , Apr 11, 2007
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                Wow! Heavy dude wants to kite in very light wind. (Or my conversions
                are wrong: You are 92 kg and want to sail in 7-13 knots?)
                I have a few advices for you:
                Stick to wakeboarding -or-
                Find a windier place -or-
                If you don't want to move and really really want to kiteboard:
                Buy a big board (I'd recommend a Liquid Force Mission
                (http://www.liquidforcekites.com/images/boards_mission144.jpg) for a
                wake-style rider of your size or an even bigger board for the winds <
                10 knots.
                And for the kite I am afraid that you'll have to resort to a big
                monster like the Flysurfer Speed 2
                19m²(http://www.flysurfer.com/Content/303/?mnid=1059)



                --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "kc_philipm" <kc_philipm@...> wrote:
                >
                > I have been a wakeboarder for 10+ years and would like to try
                > kiteboarding. I am interest is in jumping and have been looking
                > around ebay for a kite to buy so my question is which brand and model
                > would fit this use? The winds I would be looking at are between 8-
                > 15mph on most days and I way around 205lbs. thanks
                >
              • jim cancil
                I ll pipe in because I m your size (and a few years ahead) ...and jumping is probably the most fun - including jumping waves - thing you can do out there. 1.
                Message 7 of 9 , Apr 11, 2007
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                  I'll pipe in because I'm your size (and a few years ahead) ...and jumping is probably the
                  most fun - including jumping waves - thing you can do out there.

                  1. You're simply too heavy to jump much beyond bunny hops in those conditions. You'd
                  need winds into the low-20's to ramp up. ..maybe if you lost 60lbs.

                  It's simple physics compounded by your inexperience and the fact that a kite is more like
                  an overpowered airplane flown by a maniac chimp than your normal skiboat tow. The
                  advantage you have over others: you know what the board feels like - but that's the easy
                  bit.

                  2. Your best kites are 12 thru 16's. Don't get suckered into lumbering 18 - 20's that
                  overpower easily, or oddball designs/brands that you need to join a cult to fly. (..former
                  18 and 20's user and cult member here)

                  There is an argument about whether C-kites or Bows jump better ...but the later versions
                  of both, depower well and relaunch well. Stick with one of the top brands. I personally
                  have found North over the years to be the most linear in their progress but also fly Naish
                  and RRD.

                  3. There is NO substitute for lessons. God ..how much time I wasted teaching myself.
                  And I'm damn lucky that all I did early was eat a lot of water. I did have a line nearly
                  remove a finger (perm.nerve/vascular damage) last year in the surf - but that was my
                  fault. Being stoopid: trying to kite in too light air. And, I knew better...

                  4. Used gear can be great. Initailly, make sure it is complete and less than a couple of
                  seasons old. Make sure you search the fourms for upgrades and tweaks: all brands see to
                  get further development in the field. Your wakeboard probably has too much rocker to be
                  useful here. I'd take lessons on instructor's gear before you buy.

                  ...going somewhere for 4-5days: Hattteras, Cabarete, SPI ...is probably the best way to get
                  this fixed in your bone marrow.

                  j i m






                  > I have been a wakeboarder for 10+ years and would like to try
                  > kiteboarding. I am interest is in jumping and have been looking
                  > around ebay for a kite to buy so my question is which brand and model
                  > would fit this use? The winds I would be looking at are between 8-
                  > 15mph on most days and I way around 205lbs. thanks
                  >
                • Lex Lissauer
                  Hi Jim, I like your writing style. And I feel compelled to react. You re simply too heavy to jump much beyond bunny hops in those conditions. - I clearly
                  Message 8 of 9 , Apr 11, 2007
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                    Hi Jim,


                    I like your writing style. And I feel compelled to react.

                    "You're simply too heavy to jump much beyond bunny hops in those conditions." - I clearly disagree with that. With the equipment I recommend (high) jumping IS possible in these conditions. Especially raileys and backloops, also unhooked, because this kite generates speed and that is what is needed more than lift. The disadvantages are the price of the kite and that it will be slow steering. As this man wants to sail wakeboard style, the latter is no problem, for this you don't need a fast steering kite, in the contrary.
                    "Don't get suckered into lumbering 18 - 20's that overpower easily" - The kite I recommended has a big power range  (see: http://www.flysurfer.com/images/content/2006_11/windbereich_speed2.gif).
                    I agree on points 3 & 4 totally. If you can afford it, go to a windy location and take a weak at least to learn kitesurfing there. Personally I recommend Ceará Brasil (just don't go in March or April) as it is the most wind-certain spot I know.

                    "I personally have found North over the years to be the most linear in their progress but also fly Naish and RRD. "
                    You are the first person with a mixed quiver Naish/North. So I see you are really anti-cult. I think North's reputation and marketing are better than their kites, especially concerning robustness. But I cherish your healthy opportunism above loyalty to brand. You set a good example.

                    I fly Best Waroo myself (which is the cult kite on this forum is my impression). My largest kite is 12 m² and I am not considering buying anything bigger, but I weight 72 kg and we have 20+ knots wind often here in Holland.


                    Good luck and happy kiting.



                    On 4/11/07, jim cancil <wetstuff@... > wrote:


                    I'll pipe in because I'm your size (and a few years ahead) ...and jumping is probably the
                    most fun - including jumping waves - thing you can do out there.

                    1. You're simply too heavy to jump much beyond bunny hops in those conditions. You'd
                    need winds into the low-20's to ramp up. ..maybe if you lost 60lbs.

                    It's simple physics compounded by your inexperience and the fact that a kite is more like
                    an overpowered airplane flown by a maniac chimp than your normal skiboat tow. The
                    advantage you have over others: you know what the board feels like - but that's the easy
                    bit.

                    2. Your best kites are 12 thru 16's. Don't get suckered into lumbering 18 - 20's that
                    overpower easily, or oddball designs/brands that you need to join a cult to fly. (..former
                    18 and 20's user and cult member here)

                    There is an argument about whether C-kites or Bows jump better ...but the later versions
                    of both, depower well and relaunch well. Stick with one of the top brands. I personally
                    have found North over the years to be the most linear in their progress but also fly Naish
                    and RRD.

                    3. There is NO substitute for lessons. God ..how much time I wasted teaching myself.
                    And I'm damn lucky that all I did early was eat a lot of water. I did have a line nearly
                    remove a finger (perm.nerve/vascular damage) last year in the surf - but that was my
                    fault. Being stoopid: trying to kite in too light air. And, I knew better...

                    4. Used gear can be great. Initailly, make sure it is complete and less than a couple of
                    seasons old. Make sure you search the fourms for upgrades and tweaks: all brands see to
                    get further development in the field. Your wakeboard probably has too much rocker to be
                    useful here. I'd take lessons on instructor's gear before you buy.

                    ...going somewhere for 4-5days: Hattteras, Cabarete, SPI ...is probably the best way to get
                    this fixed in your bone marrow.

                    j i m



                    > I have been a wakeboarder for 10+ years and would like to try
                    > kiteboarding. I am interest is in jumping and have been looking
                    > around ebay for a kite to buy so my question is which brand and model
                    > would fit this use? The winds I would be looking at are between 8-
                    > 15mph on most days and I way around 205lbs. thanks
                    >


                  • jim cancil
                    Lex: Thanks. Good point on the wake-style moves: I didn t think about them. I don t do low, high-speed moves because almost everytime I ve tried, I either
                    Message 9 of 9 , Apr 12, 2007
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                      Lex: Thanks. Good point on the wake-style moves: I didn't think about them. I don't do
                      low, high-speed moves because almost everytime I've tried, I either bugger my Rotator
                      Cuff or otherwise damage my self esteem. I prefer to 'reach for the sky'. I 'm afraid of
                      heights and find this as thrilling as a carnival ride. As a surfer first, there is nothing more
                      thrilling that using the face of a wave to 'ramp' off ..and, of course, to NOT have to paddle
                      like a wheezing fool to get outside ..is a big bonus.

                      I've had two or three Best kites. They not only had a two-for-one program a few years
                      ago, but good journeyman kites. I backed away from them because of some of their
                      objectification of women and somewhat hats-on-sideways attitude. I just didn't feel that
                      they were a group I would want to hang with. Shannon seems great in his schooling vids
                      and I met Peter Stewie (apology for spelling) in Cabarete..but. The early Waroos I saw
                      seemed to be too active in the air; recent ones look good.

                      Brazil is a stretch for me - mentally even. I can speak a bit of Spanish and Cabarete is only
                      1.5hrs from Miami, so it seems close. I guess everything is a distance for you - plus you
                      euros don't seem to fear travel as much as we Yanks. ...and you take more time off!

                      Kite brand-loyalty was simply earned. The maybe seven Norths I've had never presented a
                      problem, but then perhaps I don't kite them hard enough ..ala wake-style ..to have had a
                      problem. I found the Euro kites like Takoon and GK to be built a little lighter built ..but
                      RRd perhaps the best, underrepresented brand in the US. I wished Takoon was again sold
                      in the US. ...the profits would not go to Bush.

                      ....and Lex, whenever I see one of those beach cams over by you: it 'always' seems to be
                      blowing. It probably would have kept me off the kites. We can get some fairly seady SW at
                      about 12-15kts ...light onshore in Summer and gusty N/NW into the low 20's when cold
                      fronts come thru, so it's pretty nice from May-November. Good luck to you - nice chat.

                      J i m






                      --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "Lex Lissauer" <lex.lissauer@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi Jim,
                      >
                      >
                      > I like your writing style. And I feel compelled to react.
                      >
                      > "You're simply too heavy to jump much beyond bunny hops in those
                      > conditions." - I clearly disagree with that. With the equipment I recommend
                      > (high) jumping IS possible in these conditions. Especially raileys and
                      > backloops, also unhooked, because this kite generates speed and that is what
                      > is needed more than lift. The disadvantages are the price of the kite and
                      > that it will be slow steering. As this man wants to sail wakeboard style,
                      > the latter is no problem, for this you don't need a fast steering kite, in
                      > the contrary.
                      > "Don't get suckered into lumbering 18 - 20's that overpower easily" - The
                      > kite I recommended has a big power range (see:
                      > http://www.flysurfer.com/images/content/2006_11/windbereich_speed2.gif).
                      > I agree on points 3 & 4 totally. If you can afford it, go to a windy
                      > location and take a weak at least to learn kitesurfing there. Personally I
                      > recommend Ceará Brasil (just don't go in March or April) as it is the most
                      > wind-certain spot I know.
                      >
                      > "I personally have found North over the years to be the most linear in their
                      > progress but also fly Naish and RRD. "
                      > You are the first person with a mixed quiver Naish/North. So I see you are
                      > really anti-cult. I think North's reputation and marketing are better than
                      > their kites, especially concerning robustness. But I cherish your healthy
                      > opportunism above loyalty to brand. You set a good example.
                      >
                      > I fly Best Waroo myself (which is the cult kite on this forum is my
                      > impression). My largest kite is 12 m² and I am not considering buying
                      > anything bigger, but I weight 72 kg and we have 20+ knots wind often here in
                      > Holland.
                      >
                      >
                      > Good luck and happy kiting.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > On 4/11/07, jim cancil <wetstuff@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > I'll pipe in because I'm your size (and a few years ahead) ...and jumping
                      > > is probably the
                      > > most fun - including jumping waves - thing you can do out there.
                      > >
                      > > 1. You're simply too heavy to jump much beyond bunny hops in those
                      > > conditions. You'd
                      > > need winds into the low-20's to ramp up. ..maybe if you lost 60lbs.
                      > >
                      > > It's simple physics compounded by your inexperience and the fact that a
                      > > kite is more like
                      > > an overpowered airplane flown by a maniac chimp than your normal skiboat
                      > > tow. The
                      > > advantage you have over others: you know what the board feels like - but
                      > > that's the easy
                      > > bit.
                      > >
                      > > 2. Your best kites are 12 thru 16's. Don't get suckered into lumbering 18
                      > > - 20's that
                      > > overpower easily, or oddball designs/brands that you need to join a cult
                      > > to fly. (..former
                      > > 18 and 20's user and cult member here)
                      > >
                      > > There is an argument about whether C-kites or Bows jump better ...but the
                      > > later versions
                      > > of both, depower well and relaunch well. Stick with one of the top brands.
                      > > I personally
                      > > have found North over the years to be the most linear in their progress
                      > > but also fly Naish
                      > > and RRD.
                      > >
                      > > 3. There is NO substitute for lessons. God ..how much time I wasted
                      > > teaching myself.
                      > > And I'm damn lucky that all I did early was eat a lot of water. I did have
                      > > a line nearly
                      > > remove a finger (perm.nerve/vascular damage) last year in the surf - but
                      > > that was my
                      > > fault. Being stoopid: trying to kite in too light air. And, I knew
                      > > better...
                      > >
                      > > 4. Used gear can be great. Initailly, make sure it is complete and less
                      > > than a couple of
                      > > seasons old. Make sure you search the fourms for upgrades and tweaks: all
                      > > brands see to
                      > > get further development in the field. Your wakeboard probably has too much
                      > > rocker to be
                      > > useful here. I'd take lessons on instructor's gear before you buy.
                      > >
                      > > ...going somewhere for 4-5days: Hattteras, Cabarete, SPI ...is probably
                      > > the best way to get
                      > > this fixed in your bone marrow.
                      > >
                      > > j i m
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > > I have been a wakeboarder for 10+ years and would like to try
                      > > > kiteboarding. I am interest is in jumping and have been looking
                      > > > around ebay for a kite to buy so my question is which brand and model
                      > > > would fit this use? The winds I would be looking at are between 8-
                      > > > 15mph on most days and I way around 205lbs. thanks
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
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