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Flat kite accident?

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  • hungvu2000@rogers.com
    I have been using the Waroo extensively for the whole winter, spring and almost half of the summer now! Everytime I switch back to the classic, foil and other
    Message 1 of 12 , Jul 12, 2006
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      I have been using the Waroo extensively for the whole winter, spring and
      almost half of the summer now!

      Everytime I switch back to the classic, foil and other types of old
      kite, I notice how drastically safer the flat kites are.

      Looks like with the flat kites, accident will be drastically reduced
      (especially the lofting or dragging into hard object accidents).

      I would like to hear some statistics regarding the flat kite accident
      world wide (especially the lofting or dragging into hard object accidents).

      P.S., The stopper ball on the chicken loop is great and make the kite
      behave similar to a classic when you are not holding the bar (for
      deadman trick or other reasons), but at the same time, it makes the kite
      only as safe as the classic unless the tension on the stopper ball is
      set to real low (then you cannot do the deadman trick anyway).
      Personally, I would set the stopper ball as far as possible on land and
      may move it in closer when in deep water. The other option is to always
      set it to as far as your arm can reach or not having the stopper ball at
      all especially if you want a safer flat kite.

      P.P.S., The other benefit of the flat kite is the ease of board
      retrieval, you can literally swim back to your board and don't really
      have to body drag upwind. Board leash and board leash accident is
      definitely a thing of the past as you have more choices and can
      always get back to your board regardless the state of the wind (body
      drag upwind was difficult in way overpowered and way underpowered
      situations).

      Hung.
    • CCKiteboarder@hotpop.com
      I basically agree but was reading on kite forum some talk about what happens if the bridle gets tangled or a pulley fails. Apparently the kites go into an
      Message 2 of 12 , Jul 12, 2006
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        I basically agree but was reading on kite forum some talk about what
        happens if the bridle gets tangled or a pulley fails. Apparently the
        kites go into an unstoppable power spin. People say they have no choice
        but to release the kite totally. Sounds to me, if this is true, that it
        needs to be addressed. Runaway kites are not a good thing. What do u
        think? Is this true? Are manufacturers addressing this issue in the
        manuals?

        --
        Steve
        Carson City, Nevada, USA

        On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 04:27:43 -0700, <hungvu2000@...> wrote:

        > I have been using the Waroo extensively for the whole winter, spring and
        > almost half of the summer now!
        >
        > Everytime I switch back to the classic, foil and other types of old
        > kite, I notice how drastically safer the flat kites are.
        >
        > Looks like with the flat kites, accident will be drastically reduced
        > (especially the lofting or dragging into hard object accidents).
        >
        > I would like to hear some statistics regarding the flat kite accident
        > world wide (especially the lofting or dragging into hard object
        > accidents).
        >
        > P.S., The stopper ball on the chicken loop is great and make the kite
        > behave similar to a classic when you are not holding the bar (for
        > deadman trick or other reasons), but at the same time, it makes the kite
        > only as safe as the classic unless the tension on the stopper ball is
        > set to real low (then you cannot do the deadman trick anyway).
        > Personally, I would set the stopper ball as far as possible on land and
        > may move it in closer when in deep water. The other option is to always
        > set it to as far as your arm can reach or not having the stopper ball at
        > all especially if you want a safer flat kite.
        >
        > P.P.S., The other benefit of the flat kite is the ease of board
        > retrieval, you can literally swim back to your board and don't really
        > have to body drag upwind. Board leash and board leash accident is
        > definitely a thing of the past as you have more choices and can
        > always get back to your board regardless the state of the wind (body
        > drag upwind was difficult in way overpowered and way underpowered
        > situations).
        > Hung.
        >
        >
        >
        > If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
        > http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
        > to the most frequently asked questions.
        >
        > === to unsubscribe, please send an email to
        > kitesurf-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ===
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • hungvu2000@rogers.com
        Steve, I haven t seen it happening on my flat kites (I have 2 types and used another 2 types from students). If this happens, it is likely to be in deep water
        Message 3 of 12 , Jul 12, 2006
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          Steve,

          I haven't seen it happening on my flat kites (I have 2 types and used
          another 2 types from students).

          If this happens, it is likely to be in deep water and if you have the
          safety leash properly set up (connected to one of the kite line as
          opposed to the chicken loop) then it is not an issue.

          The danger with the flat kite is probably due to "overconfident" that
          people don't use the safety leash and will likely result in run away
          kites when things go wrong or when the chicken loop fails (or release
          inappropriately).

          I think all manufacturers have safety leash properly set up on flat
          kites it's the kiters who take them off.

          Hung.

          CCKiteboarder@... wrote:

          >I basically agree but was reading on kite forum some talk about what
          >happens if the bridle gets tangled or a pulley fails. Apparently the
          >kites go into an unstoppable power spin. People say they have no choice
          >but to release the kite totally. Sounds to me, if this is true, that it
          >needs to be addressed. Runaway kites are not a good thing. What do u
          >think? Is this true? Are manufacturers addressing this issue in the
          >manuals?
          >
          >
          >
        • Mark
          I also agree with the statement about increased safety of flat kites, but from personal experience here s one more suggestion which could apply to all kites I
          Message 4 of 12 , Jul 12, 2006
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            I also agree with the statement about increased safety of flat kites,
            but from personal experience here's one more suggestion which could
            apply to all kites I suupose.

            When struggling to relaunch (I was trying to avoid a TE down
            inverting situation) ALWAYS make sure you are keeping the lines clear
            of the bar. I tangled the leaders around the bar (also complicated
            by a leash attached aboave the bar which I do not recommend!).

            When the kite powered up before I untangled the bar it went into an
            uncontrolled power spin... yikes! Had to ditch the kite
            completely... after spinning several times it got so tangled even
            this was a challenge!

            Anyway, this is pure operator error but a good lesson I think... also
            I would recommend ditching as soon as the power spins start... no
            sense in getting worked and even more tangled! Save your strength
            for swimming and/or flagging down someone!

            --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, CCKiteboarder@... wrote:
            >
            > I basically agree but was reading on kite forum some talk about
            what
            > happens if the bridle gets tangled or a pulley fails. Apparently
            the
            > kites go into an unstoppable power spin. People say they have no
            choice
            > but to release the kite totally. Sounds to me, if this is true,
            that it
            > needs to be addressed. Runaway kites are not a good thing. What
            do u
            > think? Is this true? Are manufacturers addressing this issue in
            the
            > manuals?
            >
            > --
            > Steve
            > Carson City, Nevada, USA
            >
            > On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 04:27:43 -0700, <hungvu2000@...> wrote:
            >
            > > I have been using the Waroo extensively for the whole winter,
            spring and
            > > almost half of the summer now!
            > >
            > > Everytime I switch back to the classic, foil and other types of
            old
            > > kite, I notice how drastically safer the flat kites are.
            > >
            > > Looks like with the flat kites, accident will be drastically
            reduced
            > > (especially the lofting or dragging into hard object accidents).
            > >
            > > I would like to hear some statistics regarding the flat kite
            accident
            > > world wide (especially the lofting or dragging into hard object
            > > accidents).
            > >
            > > P.S., The stopper ball on the chicken loop is great and make the
            kite
            > > behave similar to a classic when you are not holding the bar (for
            > > deadman trick or other reasons), but at the same time, it makes
            the kite
            > > only as safe as the classic unless the tension on the stopper
            ball is
            > > set to real low (then you cannot do the deadman trick anyway).
            > > Personally, I would set the stopper ball as far as possible on
            land and
            > > may move it in closer when in deep water. The other option is to
            always
            > > set it to as far as your arm can reach or not having the stopper
            ball at
            > > all especially if you want a safer flat kite.
            > >
            > > P.P.S., The other benefit of the flat kite is the ease of board
            > > retrieval, you can literally swim back to your board and don't
            really
            > > have to body drag upwind. Board leash and board leash accident is
            > > definitely a thing of the past as you have more choices and can
            > > always get back to your board regardless the state of the wind
            (body
            > > drag upwind was difficult in way overpowered and way underpowered
            > > situations).
            > > Hung.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
            > > http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
            > > to the most frequently asked questions.
            > >
            > > === to unsubscribe, please send an email to
            > > kitesurf-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ===
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
          • Greg
            I had to relase from a Crossbow once. The kite had inverted and was being a pain to relaunch so I thought I would leave it down and drift ashore. In the
            Message 5 of 12 , Jul 17, 2006
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              I had to relase from a Crossbow once. The kite had inverted and was
              being a pain to relaunch so I thought I would leave it down and drift
              ashore.

              In the meantime the kite decided to right itself and relaunch fully
              powered up. The steering lines had tangled in the long dangley trim
              adjusters and I had no way to control the kite so I pinged off.

              I now have about 70 hours of riding a Sonic in every kind of wind
              conditions (including outrageously over powered) and have never had a
              moment's trouble with it. One Sonic 11 and 2 kiteboards (Underground
              2006 FLX 132x39 and plywood 135x49) make a great quiver for allround
              riding.
            • CCKiteboarder@hotpop.com
              I am interested in your comments on Crossbow and Sonic. Would like to hear more. How are they simialr and different. Why do you like the sonic better? --
              Message 6 of 12 , Jul 18, 2006
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                I am interested in your comments on Crossbow and Sonic. Would like to
                hear more. How are they simialr and different. Why do you like the sonic
                better?


                --
                Steve
                Carson City, Nevada, USA


                On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 20:34:17 -0700, Greg <Greg.Walsh@...> wrote:

                > I had to relase from a Crossbow once. The kite had inverted and was
                > being a pain to relaunch so I thought I would leave it down and drift
                > ashore.
                >
                > In the meantime the kite decided to right itself and relaunch fully
                > powered up. The steering lines had tangled in the long dangley trim
                > adjusters and I had no way to control the kite so I pinged off.
                >
                > I now have about 70 hours of riding a Sonic in every kind of wind
                > conditions (including outrageously over powered) and have never had a
                > moment's trouble with it. One Sonic 11 and 2 kiteboards (Underground
                > 2006 FLX 132x39 and plywood 135x49) make a great quiver for allround
                > riding.
              • Greg
                The Crossbow has somewhat higher performance and is better constructed. It is more prone to inversions, has much higher bar pressure and a much more
                Message 7 of 12 , Jul 18, 2006
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                  The Crossbow has somewhat higher performance and is better
                  constructed. It is more prone to inversions, has much higher bar
                  pressure and a much more complicated bar/trim adjustment system.

                  The Sonic works much more nicely and is much more user friendly. Bar
                  pressure is light. The bar is clean and simple. It is much less prone
                  to inversions. The bridles are short and simple and it sits neatly on
                  the belly of the wing when you are carrying the kite. The construction
                  of the Sonic is a bit cheaper but the kite is much cheaper to buy.


                  --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, CCKiteboarder@... wrote:
                  >
                  > I am interested in your comments on Crossbow and Sonic. Would like
                  to
                  > hear more. How are they simialr and different. Why do you like the
                  sonic
                  > better?
                  >
                  >
                  > --
                  > Steve
                  > Carson City, Nevada, USA
                • Dean Crowell
                  Aloha Hung, Can you recommend an instructor or school near the F.L. area? I will be working there on occasion and need some water time. Thanks, Dean Crowell,
                  Message 8 of 12 , Nov 3, 2006
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                    Aloha Hung,

                    Can you recommend an instructor or school near the F.L. area? I will
                    be working there on occasion and need some water time. Thanks,

                    Dean Crowell, The Hawaiian in Minnesota



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • hungvu2000@rogers.com
                    Dean, There are some very good schools in the Ft. Lauderdale area. I remembered emailing with Chris, Neil and Paul (I think he is more near Key West) some
                    Message 9 of 12 , Nov 6, 2006
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                      Dean,

                      There are some very good schools in the Ft. Lauderdale area.

                      I remembered emailing with Chris, Neil and Paul (I think he is more near
                      Key West) some years back.

                      Check the schools section in the http://kitesurfingschool.org web site
                      and the associated yahoo groups posts for new updates.

                      P.S., Hawaiian and Minnesota doesn't seem to go well together ;-)

                      Hung.

                      Dean Crowell wrote:

                      >Aloha Hung,
                      >
                      >Can you recommend an instructor or school near the F.L. area? I will
                      >be working there on occasion and need some water time. Thanks,
                      >
                      >Dean Crowell, The Hawaiian in Minnesota
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • ckflyer@aol.com
                      Dean: Neil Hutchinson at Tiki Beach has taken over the KitesurfUSA location in Ft. Lauderdale...E mail him at _nhukusa@aol.com_ (mailto:nhukusa@aol.com)
                      Message 10 of 12 , Nov 6, 2006
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                        Dean:
                        Neil Hutchinson at Tiki Beach has taken over the KitesurfUSA location in
                        Ft. Lauderdale...E mail him at _nhukusa@..._ (mailto:nhukusa@...)
                        ..for lesson information and scheduling...

                        Chris


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Dean Crowell
                        Thanks Chris, I ll send him a message Dean ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        Message 11 of 12 , Nov 6, 2006
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                          Thanks Chris, I'll send him a message
                          Dean

                          On Nov 6, 2006, at 9:58 AM, ckflyer@... wrote:

                          > Dean:
                          > Neil Hutchinson at Tiki Beach has taken over the KitesurfUSA
                          > location in
                          > Ft. Lauderdale...E mail him at _nhukusa@..._
                          > (mailto:nhukusa@...)
                          > ..for lesson information and scheduling...
                          >
                          > Chris
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • pp_pp378
                          Message 12 of 12 , Nov 12, 2006
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                            --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, Dean Crowell <dean@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Thanks Chris, I'll send him a message
                            > Dean
                            >
                            > On Nov 6, 2006, at 9:58 AM, ckflyer@... wrote:
                            >
                            > > Dean:
                            > > Neil Hutchinson at Tiki Beach has taken over the KitesurfUSA
                            > > location in
                            > > Ft. Lauderdale...E mail him at _nhukusa@..._
                            > > (mailto:nhukusa@...)
                            > > ..for lesson information and scheduling...
                            > >
                            > > Chris
                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
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