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Re: [ksurf] Flat kite low end & trailing edge bridle

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  • hungvu2000@rogers.com
    You can depower a 16m flat kite down to almost a 10m or smaller but it won t be sweet (not as much fun) as you will have more drag - too much kite for too much
    Message 1 of 12 , Jul 11, 2006
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      You can depower a 16m flat kite down to almost a 10m or smaller but it
      won't be sweet (not as much fun) as you will have more drag - too much
      kite for too much wind (more drag means less upwind and not jumping as
      high). So a 16m flat kite can replace a 12m classic kite but smaller
      than that you want to switch to a smaller kite (any flat kite in the
      range of 10m to 14m will work sweet).

      A 9m and 16m flat kite combination will work but not as sweet as a 7m,
      11m and 16m flat kite combination (and all wind range too - I was using
      a 5m flat kite in wind gusting to 50 knots and still have more depower
      capacity to spare)

      Hung.

      CCKiteboarder@... wrote:

      >Hi Hung
      >
      >I've been wondering about the range comparison between flat kites and C
      >Kites. Was thinking that maybe they had the power of equivalent foils -
      >projected area. I had not considered the lack of trailing edge bridling.
      >
      >Glad to read this b4 making a purchase. Your reasoning seems right on.
      >
      >Why do you say top end is only equal to a 12 and not even smaller? Seems
      >like if you can totally luff the kite it should be equiv to much smaller 3
      >or 5 m? Is there still that much pull when totally luffed?
      >
      >
      >
    • Dean Crowell
      As a new-comer to power kiting, do you suggest mastering a 4-line bar and not relying on the 5th line for relaunching? As a windsurfer of 23 years, I see many
      Message 2 of 12 , Jul 11, 2006
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        As a new-comer to power kiting, do you suggest mastering a 4-line bar
        and not relying on the 5th line for relaunching? As a windsurfer of
        23 years, I see many new products designed to make sailboarding
        easier, while fully learning some basics (water-starting, short-board
        balance, for example) is really the way to go in my opinion. Some of
        the guys I see shredding are on basic 4-line LEI's w/ no frills.

        Thanks, Dean

        On Jul 11, 2006, at 4:15 PM, hungvu2000@... wrote:
      • hungvu2000@rogers.com
        Personally I never like 5th line (too many lines) and never have to use it in the last 8 years. P.S. Line tangling is a factorial functions: 1 line = 1, 2
        Message 3 of 12 , Jul 11, 2006
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          Personally I never like 5th line (too many lines) and never have to use
          it in the last 8 years.

          P.S. Line tangling is a factorial functions: 1 line = 1, 2 lines = 2, 3
          lines = 6, 4 lines = 24, 5 lines = 120 ways to tangle.

          Hung.

          Dean Crowell wrote:

          >As a new-comer to power kiting, do you suggest mastering a 4-line bar
          >and not relying on the 5th line for relaunching? As a windsurfer of
          >23 years, I see many new products designed to make sailboarding
          >easier, while fully learning some basics (water-starting, short-board
          >balance, for example) is really the way to go in my opinion. Some of
          >the guys I see shredding are on basic 4-line LEI's w/ no frills.
          >
          >Thanks, Dean
          >
          >On Jul 11, 2006, at 4:15 PM, hungvu2000@... wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Lex Lissauer
          This year: Yes, useful. Next year the whole fast swimming towards the kite will probably be a thing of the past. It is comparable to the rope start with
          Message 4 of 12 , Jul 11, 2006
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            This year: Yes, useful. Next year the whole "fast swimming towards the kite"
            will probably be a thing of the past. It is comparable to the rope start
            with windsurfing: With a small board it is an extreme balance exercise and
            nice if you can do it, but hardly useful.
            I would let it depend on the kites I was going to use.
            Also notice that the bigger the kites, the harder they relaunch, so I would
            recommend a fifth line for all sizes above 12m².


            On 7/12/06, Dean Crowell <dean@...> wrote:
            >
            > As a new-comer to power kiting, do you suggest mastering a 4-line bar
            > and not relying on the 5th line for relaunching? As a windsurfer of
            > 23 years, I see many new products designed to make sailboarding
            > easier, while fully learning some basics (water-starting, short-board
            > balance, for example) is really the way to go in my opinion. Some of
            > the guys I see shredding are on basic 4-line LEI's w/ no frills.
            >
            > Thanks, Dean
            >
            > On Jul 11, 2006, at 4:15 PM, hungvu2000@...<hungvu2000%40rogers.com>wrote:
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • CCKiteboarder@hotpop.com
            If I was learning today I would buy a bow kite and avoid a 5th line. I currently use C kites and have 5th lines on all of them but not primarily as an aid to
            Message 5 of 12 , Jul 12, 2006
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              If I was learning today I would buy a bow kite and avoid a 5th line.

              I currently use C kites and have 5th lines on all of them but not
              primarily as an aid to relaunch. For me the advantage of a 5th line is
              Tea Bag Protection. If I kited where that was not an issue I would fly my
              Cs on 4 lines cuz I can get them relaunched.

              BTW lower aspect kites relaunch real easy - hard to keep them on the
              water. so if you want C kites and relaunch is the issue just get low
              aspect ratio kites.

              But if I was learning today and know what I know I'd buy one of the flat
              inflatables for sure. Not sure which one though.


              --
              Steve
              Carson City, Nevada, USA

              On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 15:08:04 -0700, Dean Crowell <dean@...>
              wrote:

              > As a new-comer to power kiting, do you suggest mastering a 4-line bar
              > and not relying on the 5th line for relaunching? As a windsurfer of
              > 23 years, I see many new products designed to make sailboarding
              > easier, while fully learning some basics (water-starting, short-board
              > balance, for example) is really the way to go in my opinion. Some of
              > the guys I see shredding are on basic 4-line LEI's w/ no frills.
              >
              > Thanks, Dean
              >
              > On Jul 11, 2006, at 4:15 PM, hungvu2000@... wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
              > http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
              > to the most frequently asked questions.
              >
              > === to unsubscribe, please send an email to
              > kitesurf-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ===
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Yuri
              What do you mean speaking - the advantage of a 5th line is Tea Bag Protection? ... line is ... fly my ... the ... low ... flat ... bar ... of ... board ... of
              Message 6 of 12 , Jul 12, 2006
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                What do you mean speaking - the advantage of a 5th line is
                Tea Bag Protection?


                --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, CCKiteboarder@... wrote:
                >
                > If I was learning today I would buy a bow kite and avoid a 5th line.
                >
                > I currently use C kites and have 5th lines on all of them but not
                > primarily as an aid to relaunch. For me the advantage of a 5th
                line is
                > Tea Bag Protection. If I kited where that was not an issue I would
                fly my
                > Cs on 4 lines cuz I can get them relaunched.
                >
                > BTW lower aspect kites relaunch real easy - hard to keep them on
                the
                > water. so if you want C kites and relaunch is the issue just get
                low
                > aspect ratio kites.
                >
                > But if I was learning today and know what I know I'd buy one of the
                flat
                > inflatables for sure. Not sure which one though.
                >
                >
                > --
                > Steve
                > Carson City, Nevada, USA
                >
                > On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 15:08:04 -0700, Dean Crowell <dean@...>
                > wrote:
                >
                > > As a new-comer to power kiting, do you suggest mastering a 4-line
                bar
                > > and not relying on the 5th line for relaunching? As a windsurfer
                of
                > > 23 years, I see many new products designed to make sailboarding
                > > easier, while fully learning some basics (water-starting, short-
                board
                > > balance, for example) is really the way to go in my opinion. Some
                of
                > > the guys I see shredding are on basic 4-line LEI's w/ no frills.
                > >
                > > Thanks, Dean
                > >
                > > On Jul 11, 2006, at 4:15 PM, hungvu2000@... wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
                > > http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
                > > to the most frequently asked questions.
                > >
                > > === to unsubscribe, please send an email to
                > > kitesurf-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ===
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
              • Yuri
                What do you mean speaking - the advantage of a 5th line is Tea Bag Protection? ... line is ... fly my ... the ... low ... flat ... bar ... of ... board ... of
                Message 7 of 12 , Jul 12, 2006
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                  What do you mean speaking - the advantage of a 5th line is
                  Tea Bag Protection?


                  --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, CCKiteboarder@... wrote:
                  >
                  > If I was learning today I would buy a bow kite and avoid a 5th line.
                  >
                  > I currently use C kites and have 5th lines on all of them but not
                  > primarily as an aid to relaunch. For me the advantage of a 5th
                  line is
                  > Tea Bag Protection. If I kited where that was not an issue I would
                  fly my
                  > Cs on 4 lines cuz I can get them relaunched.
                  >
                  > BTW lower aspect kites relaunch real easy - hard to keep them on
                  the
                  > water. so if you want C kites and relaunch is the issue just get
                  low
                  > aspect ratio kites.
                  >
                  > But if I was learning today and know what I know I'd buy one of the
                  flat
                  > inflatables for sure. Not sure which one though.
                  >
                  >
                  > --
                  > Steve
                  > Carson City, Nevada, USA
                  >
                  > On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 15:08:04 -0700, Dean Crowell <dean@...>
                  > wrote:
                  >
                  > > As a new-comer to power kiting, do you suggest mastering a 4-line
                  bar
                  > > and not relying on the 5th line for relaunching? As a windsurfer
                  of
                  > > 23 years, I see many new products designed to make sailboarding
                  > > easier, while fully learning some basics (water-starting, short-
                  board
                  > > balance, for example) is really the way to go in my opinion. Some
                  of
                  > > the guys I see shredding are on basic 4-line LEI's w/ no frills.
                  > >
                  > > Thanks, Dean
                  > >
                  > > On Jul 11, 2006, at 4:15 PM, hungvu2000@... wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
                  > > http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
                  > > to the most frequently asked questions.
                  > >
                  > > === to unsubscribe, please send an email to
                  > > kitesurf-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ===
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                • Dean Crowell
                  Thanks Steve - Very helpful! Dean ... Dean Crowell Asset Manager Artspace Projects, Inc. 250 3rd Avenue North Suite 500 Minneapolis, Minnesota 55401
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jul 12, 2006
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                    Thanks Steve - Very helpful! Dean
                    On Jul 12, 2006, at 2:04 AM, CCKiteboarder@... wrote:

                    > If I was learning today I would buy a bow kite and avoid a 5th line.
                    >
                    > I currently use C kites and have 5th lines on all of them but not
                    > primarily as an aid to relaunch. For me the advantage of a 5th
                    > line is
                    > Tea Bag Protection. If I kited where that was not an issue I would
                    > fly my
                    > Cs on 4 lines cuz I can get them relaunched.
                    >
                    > BTW lower aspect kites relaunch real easy - hard to keep them on the
                    > water. so if you want C kites and relaunch is the issue just get low
                    > aspect ratio kites.
                    >
                    > But if I was learning today and know what I know I'd buy one of the
                    > flat
                    > inflatables for sure. Not sure which one though.
                    >
                    >
                    > --
                    > Steve
                    > Carson City, Nevada, USA
                    >
                    > On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 15:08:04 -0700, Dean Crowell
                    > <dean@...>
                    > wrote:
                    >
                    >> As a new-comer to power kiting, do you suggest mastering a 4-line bar
                    >> and not relying on the 5th line for relaunching? As a windsurfer of
                    >> 23 years, I see many new products designed to make sailboarding
                    >> easier, while fully learning some basics (water-starting, short-board
                    >> balance, for example) is really the way to go in my opinion. Some of
                    >> the guys I see shredding are on basic 4-line LEI's w/ no frills.
                    >>
                    >> Thanks, Dean
                    >>
                    >> On Jul 11, 2006, at 4:15 PM, hungvu2000@... wrote:
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
                    >> http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
                    >> to the most frequently asked questions.
                    >>
                    >> === to unsubscribe, please send an email to
                    >> kitesurf-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ===
                    >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
                    > http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
                    > to the most frequently asked questions.
                    >
                    > === to unsubscribe, please send an email to kitesurf-
                    > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ===
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >

                    Dean Crowell
                    Asset Manager
                    Artspace Projects, Inc.
                    250 3rd Avenue North
                    Suite 500
                    Minneapolis, Minnesota 55401
                    dean@...
                    Direct Dial (612) 465-0232



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • CCKiteboarder@hotpop.com
                    Tea Bagging is what happens when the wind gets too high for the kite you are using after you go out. It is like lofting but out on the water. Your body is the
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jul 12, 2006
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                      Tea Bagging is what happens when the wind gets too high for the kite you
                      are using after you go out.

                      It is like lofting but out on the water. Your body is the tea bag and the
                      wind gods are holding the little paper tab at the other end of the string
                      dunking you as they please : )

                      If the wind comes up a lot after you go out you may have little or no
                      control for a while. With a regular C Kite you can only depower so much
                      and still have the ability to relaunch later. A 5th line allows more
                      depower - close to full. With my set up I can throw the bar, let the kite
                      sit downwind for awhile and then when/if the wind drops off enough,
                      relaunch and continue.

                      This scenario happens enough here that I lke the option.


                      --
                      Steve
                      Carson City, Nevada, USA



                      On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 04:59:30 -0700, Yuri <drive@...> wrote:

                      >
                      > What do you mean speaking - the advantage of a 5th line is
                      > Tea Bag Protection?
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, CCKiteboarder@... wrote:
                      >>
                      >> If I was learning today I would buy a bow kite and avoid a 5th line.
                      >>
                      >> I currently use C kites and have 5th lines on all of them but not
                      >> primarily as an aid to relaunch. For me the advantage of a 5th
                      > line is
                      >> Tea Bag Protection. If I kited where that was not an issue I would
                      > fly my
                      >> Cs on 4 lines cuz I can get them relaunched.
                      >>
                      >> BTW lower aspect kites relaunch real easy - hard to keep them on
                      > the
                      >> water. so if you want C kites and relaunch is the issue just get
                      > low
                      >> aspect ratio kites.
                      >>
                      >> But if I was learning today and know what I know I'd buy one of the
                      > flat
                      >> inflatables for sure. Not sure which one though.
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> --
                      >> Steve
                      >> Carson City, Nevada, USA
                      >>
                      >> On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 15:08:04 -0700, Dean Crowell <dean@...>
                      >> wrote:
                      >>
                      >> > As a new-comer to power kiting, do you suggest mastering a 4-line
                      > bar
                      >> > and not relying on the 5th line for relaunching? As a windsurfer
                      > of
                      >> > 23 years, I see many new products designed to make sailboarding
                      >> > easier, while fully learning some basics (water-starting, short-
                      > board
                      >> > balance, for example) is really the way to go in my opinion. Some
                      > of
                      >> > the guys I see shredding are on basic 4-line LEI's w/ no frills.
                      >> >
                      >> > Thanks, Dean
                      >> >
                      >> > On Jul 11, 2006, at 4:15 PM, hungvu2000@... wrote:
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                    • Yuri
                      ... Thanks Steve. Good explanation. I apply the 5th line in the same way when the wind is too strong and gusty. But still i use the line for relaunching.
                      Message 10 of 12 , Jul 13, 2006
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                        --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, CCKiteboarder@... wrote:

                        Thanks Steve. Good explanation. I apply the 5th line in the same way
                        when the wind is too strong and gusty. But still i use the line for
                        relaunching. Mostly when I do snowkiting.

                        Yuri.






                        >
                        > Tea Bagging is what happens when the wind gets too high for the
                        kite you
                        > are using after you go out.
                        >
                        > It is like lofting but out on the water. Your body is the tea bag
                        and the
                        > wind gods are holding the little paper tab at the other end of the
                        string
                        > dunking you as they please : )
                        >
                        > If the wind comes up a lot after you go out you may have little or
                        no
                        > control for a while. With a regular C Kite you can only depower so
                        much
                        > and still have the ability to relaunch later. A 5th line allows
                        more
                        > depower - close to full. With my set up I can throw the bar, let
                        the kite
                        > sit downwind for awhile and then when/if the wind drops off
                        enough,
                        > relaunch and continue.
                        >
                        > This scenario happens enough here that I lke the option.
                        >
                        >
                        > --
                        > Steve
                        > Carson City, Nevada, USA
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