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Re: GK Sonik or Waroo pros/cons pls

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  • Jan W Couhig
    Interesting choices! I would be interested to understand your reasoning? Have you tried these kites? Did you consider the ION, One, or Answer? What about the
    Message 1 of 6 , Apr 19, 2006
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      Interesting choices! I would be interested to understand your
      reasoning? Have you tried these kites? Did you consider the ION, One,
      or Answer?

      What about the Switchblade, Shockwave, and Turbo Deisle?

      --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "whyserpico" <whyserpico@...> wrote:
      >
      > I`m on the market for a bow kite and from what I heard and read my
      > choise now is between Waroo and GK Sonik is there anybody out there
      > that can help.I`m 6' 8" around 190pds winds in the area 10-15(20) and
      > rare occasions towards 25-30.
      > Cheers
      >
    • malink magombo
      best waroo in the last year kiting has seen the next big thing , the bowkite phenomenon. these kites claimed to offer total depower, as well as the ability to
      Message 2 of 6 , Apr 27, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        best waroo

        in the last year kiting has seen the 'next big thing',
        the bowkite phenomenon. these kites claimed to offer
        total depower, as well as the ability to let go of the
        bar and acitate the safety system. however, problems
        became apparent with issues such as stability, the
        power delivery and most importantly, the phenomenon of
        the kite inverting, which can end up causing a very
        expensive repair. best have released the waroo,
        claiming that all of these problems have been
        adressed, and that all the advantages of tradditional
        C shaped LEI's and bow kites have been maintained.

        ok, the bag. to look at its not that special, but it
        packs down small and can be extended to various sizes,
        including being big enough to accomodate the kite with
        struts inflated. theres a pocket for your pump, and
        you can put your bar at the side of the bag.

        the bar itself is well constructed, with a nice small
        daimeter and a contoured end, allowing you to hold it
        more comfortably. this is particularly nice, as some
        bars ive had in the past have been abysmal to hold for
        long periods. the chicken loop has a release activated
        my a loop and pin, and is mounted on the side of the
        loop, which makes it easier to reach and activate than
        one on top of the loop. the depower line is quite
        long, but reachable with my arms. the trimmer is a
        pull/pull system with long toggles, and again is easy
        to reach with the hands. theres nothing worse than
        being overpowered and not being able to reach the trim
        strap! at either end of the bar are OSR handles, which
        allow you to flag the kite out if need be, handy for
        self landing the kite and a reassuring extra safety
        option.

        the kite itself is well made, the stiching is well
        done and the fabric feels good. the quality of the
        printing seems fine, but time will tell. the kite
        itself appears very simple, there really isnt a lot to
        it when you look at it. theres only 5 struts, and
        bridling is nice and simple. the front lines attach to
        a pulley on the main bridle, allowing the pivot point
        for the depower of the kite to move back and forth
        when used. the brake lines go onto a v shaped line
        which terminates on the front and rear of the wingtip.
        on this are adustment knots for the turning style of
        the kite, as well as further knots which allow you to
        tailor the activation of the safety to your own needs.
        it reminds me of the WAC system you see on flysurfers,
        and certainly gives you the option of making the kite
        suit your flying style a lot better. more on this
        later.
        all the vales are non return, including the main
        bladder, which is certainly apprechiated. more than
        once ive had a pump nozzle come put on a windy day and
        ended up swearing. the only thing missing is a pump
        leash attachment, but you can hold onto the bridle
        instead.

        pumping up the kite is a pretty quick affair, due to
        the thin struts and small number of them. the kite
        likes to be super hard to help it maintain its shape.
        its certainly gets pumped up a lot harder than a
        regular LEI, and initially this is a bit worrying, but
        the kite can take it. also, once inflated you notice
        how light the kite is.

        flying

        you can launch the kite like a regular LEI, weighting
        down the wingtip, or its possible to launch the kite
        by rolling it over from its leading edge by pulling
        one of the brakelines. this takes a bit of practice on
        the land, but is easy enough, and certainly quicker
        and easier than having to weigh down the wingtip
        everytime you stuff up a trick. you do need more than
        10mph of wind to do this however.

        once in the air, on the default settings feels light
        on th bar, but not devoid of feel. the turning
        response is excellent, the kite responding crisply
        like a regular LEI without delay. on the default
        settings the kite turns half like a foil, i.e. on its
        axis, and half like an LEI. being from a foil
        background this is no bad thing, and as i said it can
        be changed if it isnt your thing. the turning radius
        is good but perhaps not quite as tight as a C shaped
        LEI.
        the level of depower feels smooth and progressive, and
        around the last 3 inches of bar travel, you can feel
        the pull from the kite fade and hear a gentle flapping
        of the sail. this is perfectly normal and what the
        kite is designed to do. push the bar out further and
        the pull is negligable, as my kite is set up currenty
        the kite sits at zenith for a while, then slowly
        flutters down. in stronger winds, it gradually
        descends to the edge of the window and sits there,
        benign and awaiting relaunch. by simply adjusting the
        backline tension via the knots on the brakelines, you
        can make the safety actuation more or less prononced.
        i like it set up this way as it gives the benefits of
        total depower, but the kite stays in the air long
        enough for you to recover and reride after a trick, so
        its in effect like have a safe suicide leash. altering
        the amount of backline tension also allows you to
        tailor the amount of available top and bottom end of
        the kite, giving you a bit more windrange and a larger
        comfort zone.
        the level of power in the kite is good, certainly
        more than a 12m C kite. best say the 12m is around the
        power of a 16 C kite, and this doesnt feel too far
        from the truth. the power feels smooth and
        progressive, not as grunty as a C kite but perhaps
        more like a high aspect foil. dont let this put you
        off though as this is relative, and the kite is a lot
        more grunty than a foil. the kite flys fast and
        accelerates quickly, but sheeting out into the safety
        zone soon slows things down again. inital impressions
        remind me of a foil, but only in certain ways. the
        kite feels recognisable in the way that you fly it,
        but seems to combine foil and LEI flying qualities.

        water use

        my first inital water session was at fleetwood beach
        in a gusty 20mph plus wind. a few minutes before i'd
        been out sailing on a regular C shaped kite (a yarga
        pro) and it'd been your typical sail in gusty wind,
        i.e. digging in your edge like mad during the gusts,
        and bearing off downwind and losing ground during the
        lulls. personally i find sailing in these conditions
        more like a war with the kite, rather than you and
        your kit working in unison. this kind of sailing makes
        my thighs ache and my temper frayed.

        anyway, i moved onto the waroo and headed out.
        initially apparent was that now i could maintain a
        constant board speed, instead of speeding or slowing
        as the wind changed in order to maintain control, now
        i could use the depower available on the kite to
        smooth out the ride. instead of flying off every piece
        of chop i could cruise as i wished, and the strain
        going through my legs was much reduced. compared to a
        regular blimp the board seemed to plane from the speed
        of the kite, rather than the grunt available from a
        more classic shaped kite. within a few minutes my
        condifence level had gained, and i was carving and
        throwing the board around despite the less than
        average conditions. jumping was good, but i noticed
        that it was important to maintain backline tension to
        get the most boost from the kite. the jumping style is
        quite foil-like, you didnt need to send the kite back
        as far as a classic kite, but the hangtime and pop
        felt good. it took me a while to dail in the timing
        but it soon comes naturally.

        the first time in decent conditions was over at shell
        island in some small peeling sets. i use a 129 X 39
        twintip and before on my previous kite, it had been
        difficult to get more than 2 or 3 turns on a wave this
        size without being pulled off, or worse straight
        through the face. with this kite it was now possible
        to line myself up for a section and meter out the
        power as desired, easing off as i hit the lip or when
        i carved into toeside to help maintain balance.
        bogging down didnt seem much of a problem as the waroo
        was giving me a high initial boardspeed, and i could
        blend the power of the wave and kite as i wished. this
        day i was able to continuosly link sets together for
        over a mile, something i have never been able to do
        before. to say i felt pretty good was an
        understatement. and getting back wasnt too much of an
        ordeal as you can really point the kite upwind and
        make up some ground.

        land use

        i kite with a mountainboard on a regular basis, and
        this is where i throw most of my freestyle moves as
        ive kited on the land for much longer. using the waroo
        on land is pretty straightforward, you can relaunch by
        rolling the kite as detailed earlier and the depower
        qualities certainly come in useful. my site is inland
        and gusty, and the amount of depower helps to prevent
        loftings a lot more often than on other equipment ive
        used in the past. the only time ive been able to
        overfly is inland, and this was in a severely
        unstable wind. when the kite did this however it just
        fluttered harmlessly to the ground, the important
        thing to remember in this instance is to let go of the
        bar. the kite still has yet to fully invert on me,
        despite deliberately trying on a number of occasions.
        my advice is if landboarding with any bow kite keep an
        eye on it and maintian some backline tension at all
        times so you can feel what the kite is doing.

        trickwise, once i had adjusted the turn settings to
        full 'pivot' style turning, the timing for jumps on
        land became a lot easier. in a wind of around 15mph i
        was getting good boosts from the kite with nice float,
        i still need to work on some aspects of jumping with
        this kite as i feel there is more performance to come.
        recently ive been doing some of the kiteloop moves and
        being able to sheet out mid loop and prevent the
        dreaded mis timed power surge is very useful. my
        backloop kiteloops are smoother than ever and i can
        pop them in less wind. i also apprechiated the fact
        that in blind its very easy to control the kite and
        maintain boardspeed without getting pulled off
        backwards.
        unhooked the kite accelerates well and doesnt stall
        too easily, except in very light wind. its also easy
        to turn the kite one handed with either hand, whatever
        side of the bar you're holding.

        conclusion

        the waroo certainly bridges several different styles
        of riding and flying styles well. as someone who never
        owns more than two kites, this versatility is very
        welcome. plus there is the confidence imbued by the
        safety systems and level of depower, it really is a
        very reassuring ride. the kite has the lightness and
        float of a foil, and the speed and turning of an LEI
        kite. however, the flying style is a blend of the two,
        with its own individualities. with the mixed
        references this is initially a little disconcerting
        but getting dailled in isnt difficult. i like the
        simplicity of the kite and its ease of use, along with
        the attention to detail in the impretant areas. factor
        in the price and it makes for a compelling package.
        the only real dissapointing aspect of the package is
        the pump, mine was abysmal and totally incapable of
        infalting the kite correctly. but i have contacted
        best and they're sending me a replacement. all in all
        this kite has a lot to offer to a lot of people, its
        certainly made my kiting both easier and more
        pleasureable




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      • loco4olas
        Bloody outstanding revue. Thanks. ... From: malink magombo To: Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 10:17 AM
        Message 3 of 6 , Apr 28, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          Bloody outstanding revue.

          Thanks.

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "malink magombo" <studentbastard@...>
          To: <kitesurf@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 10:17 AM
          Subject: Re: [ksurf] GK Sonik or Waroo pros/cons pls


          >
          >
          > best waroo
          >
          > in the last year kiting has seen the 'next big thing',
          > the bowkite phenomenon. these kites claimed to offer
          > total depower, as well as the ability to let go of the
          > bar and acitate the safety system. however, problems
          > became apparent with issues such as stability, the
          > power delivery and most importantly, the phenomenon of
          > the kite inverting, which can end up causing a very
          > expensive repair. best have released the waroo,
          > claiming that all of these problems have been
          > adressed, and that all the advantages of tradditional
          > C shaped LEI's and bow kites have been maintained.
          >
          > ok, the bag. to look at its not that special, but it
          > packs down small and can be extended to various sizes,
          > including being big enough to accomodate the kite with
          > struts inflated. theres a pocket for your pump, and
          > you can put your bar at the side of the bag.
          >
          > the bar itself is well constructed, with a nice small
          > daimeter and a contoured end, allowing you to hold it
          > more comfortably. this is particularly nice, as some
          > bars ive had in the past have been abysmal to hold for
          > long periods. the chicken loop has a release activated
          > my a loop and pin, and is mounted on the side of the
          > loop, which makes it easier to reach and activate than
          > one on top of the loop. the depower line is quite
          > long, but reachable with my arms. the trimmer is a
          > pull/pull system with long toggles, and again is easy
          > to reach with the hands. theres nothing worse than
          > being overpowered and not being able to reach the trim
          > strap! at either end of the bar are OSR handles, which
          > allow you to flag the kite out if need be, handy for
          > self landing the kite and a reassuring extra safety
          > option.
          >
          > the kite itself is well made, the stiching is well
          > done and the fabric feels good. the quality of the
          > printing seems fine, but time will tell. the kite
          > itself appears very simple, there really isnt a lot to
          > it when you look at it. theres only 5 struts, and
          > bridling is nice and simple. the front lines attach to
          > a pulley on the main bridle, allowing the pivot point
          > for the depower of the kite to move back and forth
          > when used. the brake lines go onto a v shaped line
          > which terminates on the front and rear of the wingtip.
          > on this are adustment knots for the turning style of
          > the kite, as well as further knots which allow you to
          > tailor the activation of the safety to your own needs.
          > it reminds me of the WAC system you see on flysurfers,
          > and certainly gives you the option of making the kite
          > suit your flying style a lot better. more on this
          > later.
          > all the vales are non return, including the main
          > bladder, which is certainly apprechiated. more than
          > once ive had a pump nozzle come put on a windy day and
          > ended up swearing. the only thing missing is a pump
          > leash attachment, but you can hold onto the bridle
          > instead.
          >
          > pumping up the kite is a pretty quick affair, due to
          > the thin struts and small number of them. the kite
          > likes to be super hard to help it maintain its shape.
          > its certainly gets pumped up a lot harder than a
          > regular LEI, and initially this is a bit worrying, but
          > the kite can take it. also, once inflated you notice
          > how light the kite is.
          >
          > flying
          >
          > you can launch the kite like a regular LEI, weighting
          > down the wingtip, or its possible to launch the kite
          > by rolling it over from its leading edge by pulling
          > one of the brakelines. this takes a bit of practice on
          > the land, but is easy enough, and certainly quicker
          > and easier than having to weigh down the wingtip
          > everytime you stuff up a trick. you do need more than
          > 10mph of wind to do this however.
          >
          > once in the air, on the default settings feels light
          > on th bar, but not devoid of feel. the turning
          > response is excellent, the kite responding crisply
          > like a regular LEI without delay. on the default
          > settings the kite turns half like a foil, i.e. on its
          > axis, and half like an LEI. being from a foil
          > background this is no bad thing, and as i said it can
          > be changed if it isnt your thing. the turning radius
          > is good but perhaps not quite as tight as a C shaped
          > LEI.
          > the level of depower feels smooth and progressive, and
          > around the last 3 inches of bar travel, you can feel
          > the pull from the kite fade and hear a gentle flapping
          > of the sail. this is perfectly normal and what the
          > kite is designed to do. push the bar out further and
          > the pull is negligable, as my kite is set up currenty
          > the kite sits at zenith for a while, then slowly
          > flutters down. in stronger winds, it gradually
          > descends to the edge of the window and sits there,
          > benign and awaiting relaunch. by simply adjusting the
          > backline tension via the knots on the brakelines, you
          > can make the safety actuation more or less prononced.
          > i like it set up this way as it gives the benefits of
          > total depower, but the kite stays in the air long
          > enough for you to recover and reride after a trick, so
          > its in effect like have a safe suicide leash. altering
          > the amount of backline tension also allows you to
          > tailor the amount of available top and bottom end of
          > the kite, giving you a bit more windrange and a larger
          > comfort zone.
          > the level of power in the kite is good, certainly
          > more than a 12m C kite. best say the 12m is around the
          > power of a 16 C kite, and this doesnt feel too far
          > from the truth. the power feels smooth and
          > progressive, not as grunty as a C kite but perhaps
          > more like a high aspect foil. dont let this put you
          > off though as this is relative, and the kite is a lot
          > more grunty than a foil. the kite flys fast and
          > accelerates quickly, but sheeting out into the safety
          > zone soon slows things down again. inital impressions
          > remind me of a foil, but only in certain ways. the
          > kite feels recognisable in the way that you fly it,
          > but seems to combine foil and LEI flying qualities.
          >
          > water use
          >
          > my first inital water session was at fleetwood beach
          > in a gusty 20mph plus wind. a few minutes before i'd
          > been out sailing on a regular C shaped kite (a yarga
          > pro) and it'd been your typical sail in gusty wind,
          > i.e. digging in your edge like mad during the gusts,
          > and bearing off downwind and losing ground during the
          > lulls. personally i find sailing in these conditions
          > more like a war with the kite, rather than you and
          > your kit working in unison. this kind of sailing makes
          > my thighs ache and my temper frayed.
          >
          > anyway, i moved onto the waroo and headed out.
          > initially apparent was that now i could maintain a
          > constant board speed, instead of speeding or slowing
          > as the wind changed in order to maintain control, now
          > i could use the depower available on the kite to
          > smooth out the ride. instead of flying off every piece
          > of chop i could cruise as i wished, and the strain
          > going through my legs was much reduced. compared to a
          > regular blimp the board seemed to plane from the speed
          > of the kite, rather than the grunt available from a
          > more classic shaped kite. within a few minutes my
          > condifence level had gained, and i was carving and
          > throwing the board around despite the less than
          > average conditions. jumping was good, but i noticed
          > that it was important to maintain backline tension to
          > get the most boost from the kite. the jumping style is
          > quite foil-like, you didnt need to send the kite back
          > as far as a classic kite, but the hangtime and pop
          > felt good. it took me a while to dail in the timing
          > but it soon comes naturally.
          >
          > the first time in decent conditions was over at shell
          > island in some small peeling sets. i use a 129 X 39
          > twintip and before on my previous kite, it had been
          > difficult to get more than 2 or 3 turns on a wave this
          > size without being pulled off, or worse straight
          > through the face. with this kite it was now possible
          > to line myself up for a section and meter out the
          > power as desired, easing off as i hit the lip or when
          > i carved into toeside to help maintain balance.
          > bogging down didnt seem much of a problem as the waroo
          > was giving me a high initial boardspeed, and i could
          > blend the power of the wave and kite as i wished. this
          > day i was able to continuosly link sets together for
          > over a mile, something i have never been able to do
          > before. to say i felt pretty good was an
          > understatement. and getting back wasnt too much of an
          > ordeal as you can really point the kite upwind and
          > make up some ground.
          >
          > land use
          >
          > i kite with a mountainboard on a regular basis, and
          > this is where i throw most of my freestyle moves as
          > ive kited on the land for much longer. using the waroo
          > on land is pretty straightforward, you can relaunch by
          > rolling the kite as detailed earlier and the depower
          > qualities certainly come in useful. my site is inland
          > and gusty, and the amount of depower helps to prevent
          > loftings a lot more often than on other equipment ive
          > used in the past. the only time ive been able to
          > overfly is inland, and this was in a severely
          > unstable wind. when the kite did this however it just
          > fluttered harmlessly to the ground, the important
          > thing to remember in this instance is to let go of the
          > bar. the kite still has yet to fully invert on me,
          > despite deliberately trying on a number of occasions.
          > my advice is if landboarding with any bow kite keep an
          > eye on it and maintian some backline tension at all
          > times so you can feel what the kite is doing.
          >
          > trickwise, once i had adjusted the turn settings to
          > full 'pivot' style turning, the timing for jumps on
          > land became a lot easier. in a wind of around 15mph i
          > was getting good boosts from the kite with nice float,
          > i still need to work on some aspects of jumping with
          > this kite as i feel there is more performance to come.
          > recently ive been doing some of the kiteloop moves and
          > being able to sheet out mid loop and prevent the
          > dreaded mis timed power surge is very useful. my
          > backloop kiteloops are smoother than ever and i can
          > pop them in less wind. i also apprechiated the fact
          > that in blind its very easy to control the kite and
          > maintain boardspeed without getting pulled off
          > backwards.
          > unhooked the kite accelerates well and doesnt stall
          > too easily, except in very light wind. its also easy
          > to turn the kite one handed with either hand, whatever
          > side of the bar you're holding.
          >
          > conclusion
          >
          > the waroo certainly bridges several different styles
          > of riding and flying styles well. as someone who never
          > owns more than two kites, this versatility is very
          > welcome. plus there is the confidence imbued by the
          > safety systems and level of depower, it really is a
          > very reassuring ride. the kite has the lightness and
          > float of a foil, and the speed and turning of an LEI
          > kite. however, the flying style is a blend of the two,
          > with its own individualities. with the mixed
          > references this is initially a little disconcerting
          > but getting dailled in isnt difficult. i like the
          > simplicity of the kite and its ease of use, along with
          > the attention to detail in the impretant areas. factor
          > in the price and it makes for a compelling package.
          > the only real dissapointing aspect of the package is
          > the pump, mine was abysmal and totally incapable of
          > infalting the kite correctly. but i have contacted
          > best and they're sending me a replacement. all in all
          > this kite has a lot to offer to a lot of people, its
          > certainly made my kiting both easier and more
          > pleasureable
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > __________________________________________________
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