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Re: GK Sonik or Waroo pros/cons pls

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  • Jan W Couhig
    Interesting choices! I would be interested to understand your reasoning? Have you tried these kites? Did you consider the ION, One, or Answer? What about the
    Message 1 of 6 , Apr 19, 2006
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      Interesting choices! I would be interested to understand your
      reasoning? Have you tried these kites? Did you consider the ION, One,
      or Answer?

      What about the Switchblade, Shockwave, and Turbo Deisle?

      --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "whyserpico" <whyserpico@...> wrote:
      >
      > I`m on the market for a bow kite and from what I heard and read my
      > choise now is between Waroo and GK Sonik is there anybody out there
      > that can help.I`m 6' 8" around 190pds winds in the area 10-15(20) and
      > rare occasions towards 25-30.
      > Cheers
      >
    • Lex Lissauer
      Hi, I m from Europe and I tried to convert your message to European sizes. You appear to be extremely tall (over 2 meter) and with 86 kilogram you must be
      Message 2 of 6 , Apr 20, 2006
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        Hi,
        I'm from Europe and I tried to convert your message to European sizes. You
        appear to be extremely tall (over 2 meter) and with 86 kilogram you must be
        quite thin, then. I suppose the wind speed your talking about is knots or
        mph, which is not a very big difference. In both cases you are talking about
        very light wind (3-4 Beaufort). I would recommend a light foil kite like
        Flysurfer Speed (13 or even 17) in that case. If you are rich even the
        "Silverpfeil". It has a higher turning speed than the Sonic 17, and probably
        more power. At the other hand you could use the Sonic 17 also for these
        25-30 winds, but this will not be comfortable sailing. As these winds are
        rare I would buy a cheap kite for these occasions, and the Waroo is cheaper
        than the Sonic. In your situation I would buy a second hand 2004 or 2005
        kite myself. And a not too small board too. 132-140 × 38-41 (4"4'-4"7' ×
        1"3'-1"4')

        Good luck

        On 4/20/06, whyserpico <whyserpico@...> wrote:
        >
        > I`m on the market for a bow kite and from what I heard and read my
        > choise now is between Waroo and GK Sonik is there anybody out there
        > that can help.I`m 6' 8" around 190pds winds in the area 10-15(20) and
        > rare occasions towards 25-30.
        > Cheers
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
        > http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
        > to the most frequently asked questions.
        >
        > === to unsubscribe, please send an email to
        > kitesurf-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ===
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • malink magombo
        best waroo in the last year kiting has seen the next big thing , the bowkite phenomenon. these kites claimed to offer total depower, as well as the ability to
        Message 3 of 6 , Apr 27, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          best waroo

          in the last year kiting has seen the 'next big thing',
          the bowkite phenomenon. these kites claimed to offer
          total depower, as well as the ability to let go of the
          bar and acitate the safety system. however, problems
          became apparent with issues such as stability, the
          power delivery and most importantly, the phenomenon of
          the kite inverting, which can end up causing a very
          expensive repair. best have released the waroo,
          claiming that all of these problems have been
          adressed, and that all the advantages of tradditional
          C shaped LEI's and bow kites have been maintained.

          ok, the bag. to look at its not that special, but it
          packs down small and can be extended to various sizes,
          including being big enough to accomodate the kite with
          struts inflated. theres a pocket for your pump, and
          you can put your bar at the side of the bag.

          the bar itself is well constructed, with a nice small
          daimeter and a contoured end, allowing you to hold it
          more comfortably. this is particularly nice, as some
          bars ive had in the past have been abysmal to hold for
          long periods. the chicken loop has a release activated
          my a loop and pin, and is mounted on the side of the
          loop, which makes it easier to reach and activate than
          one on top of the loop. the depower line is quite
          long, but reachable with my arms. the trimmer is a
          pull/pull system with long toggles, and again is easy
          to reach with the hands. theres nothing worse than
          being overpowered and not being able to reach the trim
          strap! at either end of the bar are OSR handles, which
          allow you to flag the kite out if need be, handy for
          self landing the kite and a reassuring extra safety
          option.

          the kite itself is well made, the stiching is well
          done and the fabric feels good. the quality of the
          printing seems fine, but time will tell. the kite
          itself appears very simple, there really isnt a lot to
          it when you look at it. theres only 5 struts, and
          bridling is nice and simple. the front lines attach to
          a pulley on the main bridle, allowing the pivot point
          for the depower of the kite to move back and forth
          when used. the brake lines go onto a v shaped line
          which terminates on the front and rear of the wingtip.
          on this are adustment knots for the turning style of
          the kite, as well as further knots which allow you to
          tailor the activation of the safety to your own needs.
          it reminds me of the WAC system you see on flysurfers,
          and certainly gives you the option of making the kite
          suit your flying style a lot better. more on this
          later.
          all the vales are non return, including the main
          bladder, which is certainly apprechiated. more than
          once ive had a pump nozzle come put on a windy day and
          ended up swearing. the only thing missing is a pump
          leash attachment, but you can hold onto the bridle
          instead.

          pumping up the kite is a pretty quick affair, due to
          the thin struts and small number of them. the kite
          likes to be super hard to help it maintain its shape.
          its certainly gets pumped up a lot harder than a
          regular LEI, and initially this is a bit worrying, but
          the kite can take it. also, once inflated you notice
          how light the kite is.

          flying

          you can launch the kite like a regular LEI, weighting
          down the wingtip, or its possible to launch the kite
          by rolling it over from its leading edge by pulling
          one of the brakelines. this takes a bit of practice on
          the land, but is easy enough, and certainly quicker
          and easier than having to weigh down the wingtip
          everytime you stuff up a trick. you do need more than
          10mph of wind to do this however.

          once in the air, on the default settings feels light
          on th bar, but not devoid of feel. the turning
          response is excellent, the kite responding crisply
          like a regular LEI without delay. on the default
          settings the kite turns half like a foil, i.e. on its
          axis, and half like an LEI. being from a foil
          background this is no bad thing, and as i said it can
          be changed if it isnt your thing. the turning radius
          is good but perhaps not quite as tight as a C shaped
          LEI.
          the level of depower feels smooth and progressive, and
          around the last 3 inches of bar travel, you can feel
          the pull from the kite fade and hear a gentle flapping
          of the sail. this is perfectly normal and what the
          kite is designed to do. push the bar out further and
          the pull is negligable, as my kite is set up currenty
          the kite sits at zenith for a while, then slowly
          flutters down. in stronger winds, it gradually
          descends to the edge of the window and sits there,
          benign and awaiting relaunch. by simply adjusting the
          backline tension via the knots on the brakelines, you
          can make the safety actuation more or less prononced.
          i like it set up this way as it gives the benefits of
          total depower, but the kite stays in the air long
          enough for you to recover and reride after a trick, so
          its in effect like have a safe suicide leash. altering
          the amount of backline tension also allows you to
          tailor the amount of available top and bottom end of
          the kite, giving you a bit more windrange and a larger
          comfort zone.
          the level of power in the kite is good, certainly
          more than a 12m C kite. best say the 12m is around the
          power of a 16 C kite, and this doesnt feel too far
          from the truth. the power feels smooth and
          progressive, not as grunty as a C kite but perhaps
          more like a high aspect foil. dont let this put you
          off though as this is relative, and the kite is a lot
          more grunty than a foil. the kite flys fast and
          accelerates quickly, but sheeting out into the safety
          zone soon slows things down again. inital impressions
          remind me of a foil, but only in certain ways. the
          kite feels recognisable in the way that you fly it,
          but seems to combine foil and LEI flying qualities.

          water use

          my first inital water session was at fleetwood beach
          in a gusty 20mph plus wind. a few minutes before i'd
          been out sailing on a regular C shaped kite (a yarga
          pro) and it'd been your typical sail in gusty wind,
          i.e. digging in your edge like mad during the gusts,
          and bearing off downwind and losing ground during the
          lulls. personally i find sailing in these conditions
          more like a war with the kite, rather than you and
          your kit working in unison. this kind of sailing makes
          my thighs ache and my temper frayed.

          anyway, i moved onto the waroo and headed out.
          initially apparent was that now i could maintain a
          constant board speed, instead of speeding or slowing
          as the wind changed in order to maintain control, now
          i could use the depower available on the kite to
          smooth out the ride. instead of flying off every piece
          of chop i could cruise as i wished, and the strain
          going through my legs was much reduced. compared to a
          regular blimp the board seemed to plane from the speed
          of the kite, rather than the grunt available from a
          more classic shaped kite. within a few minutes my
          condifence level had gained, and i was carving and
          throwing the board around despite the less than
          average conditions. jumping was good, but i noticed
          that it was important to maintain backline tension to
          get the most boost from the kite. the jumping style is
          quite foil-like, you didnt need to send the kite back
          as far as a classic kite, but the hangtime and pop
          felt good. it took me a while to dail in the timing
          but it soon comes naturally.

          the first time in decent conditions was over at shell
          island in some small peeling sets. i use a 129 X 39
          twintip and before on my previous kite, it had been
          difficult to get more than 2 or 3 turns on a wave this
          size without being pulled off, or worse straight
          through the face. with this kite it was now possible
          to line myself up for a section and meter out the
          power as desired, easing off as i hit the lip or when
          i carved into toeside to help maintain balance.
          bogging down didnt seem much of a problem as the waroo
          was giving me a high initial boardspeed, and i could
          blend the power of the wave and kite as i wished. this
          day i was able to continuosly link sets together for
          over a mile, something i have never been able to do
          before. to say i felt pretty good was an
          understatement. and getting back wasnt too much of an
          ordeal as you can really point the kite upwind and
          make up some ground.

          land use

          i kite with a mountainboard on a regular basis, and
          this is where i throw most of my freestyle moves as
          ive kited on the land for much longer. using the waroo
          on land is pretty straightforward, you can relaunch by
          rolling the kite as detailed earlier and the depower
          qualities certainly come in useful. my site is inland
          and gusty, and the amount of depower helps to prevent
          loftings a lot more often than on other equipment ive
          used in the past. the only time ive been able to
          overfly is inland, and this was in a severely
          unstable wind. when the kite did this however it just
          fluttered harmlessly to the ground, the important
          thing to remember in this instance is to let go of the
          bar. the kite still has yet to fully invert on me,
          despite deliberately trying on a number of occasions.
          my advice is if landboarding with any bow kite keep an
          eye on it and maintian some backline tension at all
          times so you can feel what the kite is doing.

          trickwise, once i had adjusted the turn settings to
          full 'pivot' style turning, the timing for jumps on
          land became a lot easier. in a wind of around 15mph i
          was getting good boosts from the kite with nice float,
          i still need to work on some aspects of jumping with
          this kite as i feel there is more performance to come.
          recently ive been doing some of the kiteloop moves and
          being able to sheet out mid loop and prevent the
          dreaded mis timed power surge is very useful. my
          backloop kiteloops are smoother than ever and i can
          pop them in less wind. i also apprechiated the fact
          that in blind its very easy to control the kite and
          maintain boardspeed without getting pulled off
          backwards.
          unhooked the kite accelerates well and doesnt stall
          too easily, except in very light wind. its also easy
          to turn the kite one handed with either hand, whatever
          side of the bar you're holding.

          conclusion

          the waroo certainly bridges several different styles
          of riding and flying styles well. as someone who never
          owns more than two kites, this versatility is very
          welcome. plus there is the confidence imbued by the
          safety systems and level of depower, it really is a
          very reassuring ride. the kite has the lightness and
          float of a foil, and the speed and turning of an LEI
          kite. however, the flying style is a blend of the two,
          with its own individualities. with the mixed
          references this is initially a little disconcerting
          but getting dailled in isnt difficult. i like the
          simplicity of the kite and its ease of use, along with
          the attention to detail in the impretant areas. factor
          in the price and it makes for a compelling package.
          the only real dissapointing aspect of the package is
          the pump, mine was abysmal and totally incapable of
          infalting the kite correctly. but i have contacted
          best and they're sending me a replacement. all in all
          this kite has a lot to offer to a lot of people, its
          certainly made my kiting both easier and more
          pleasureable




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        • loco4olas
          Bloody outstanding revue. Thanks. ... From: malink magombo To: Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 10:17 AM
          Message 4 of 6 , Apr 28, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            Bloody outstanding revue.

            Thanks.

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "malink magombo" <studentbastard@...>
            To: <kitesurf@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 10:17 AM
            Subject: Re: [ksurf] GK Sonik or Waroo pros/cons pls


            >
            >
            > best waroo
            >
            > in the last year kiting has seen the 'next big thing',
            > the bowkite phenomenon. these kites claimed to offer
            > total depower, as well as the ability to let go of the
            > bar and acitate the safety system. however, problems
            > became apparent with issues such as stability, the
            > power delivery and most importantly, the phenomenon of
            > the kite inverting, which can end up causing a very
            > expensive repair. best have released the waroo,
            > claiming that all of these problems have been
            > adressed, and that all the advantages of tradditional
            > C shaped LEI's and bow kites have been maintained.
            >
            > ok, the bag. to look at its not that special, but it
            > packs down small and can be extended to various sizes,
            > including being big enough to accomodate the kite with
            > struts inflated. theres a pocket for your pump, and
            > you can put your bar at the side of the bag.
            >
            > the bar itself is well constructed, with a nice small
            > daimeter and a contoured end, allowing you to hold it
            > more comfortably. this is particularly nice, as some
            > bars ive had in the past have been abysmal to hold for
            > long periods. the chicken loop has a release activated
            > my a loop and pin, and is mounted on the side of the
            > loop, which makes it easier to reach and activate than
            > one on top of the loop. the depower line is quite
            > long, but reachable with my arms. the trimmer is a
            > pull/pull system with long toggles, and again is easy
            > to reach with the hands. theres nothing worse than
            > being overpowered and not being able to reach the trim
            > strap! at either end of the bar are OSR handles, which
            > allow you to flag the kite out if need be, handy for
            > self landing the kite and a reassuring extra safety
            > option.
            >
            > the kite itself is well made, the stiching is well
            > done and the fabric feels good. the quality of the
            > printing seems fine, but time will tell. the kite
            > itself appears very simple, there really isnt a lot to
            > it when you look at it. theres only 5 struts, and
            > bridling is nice and simple. the front lines attach to
            > a pulley on the main bridle, allowing the pivot point
            > for the depower of the kite to move back and forth
            > when used. the brake lines go onto a v shaped line
            > which terminates on the front and rear of the wingtip.
            > on this are adustment knots for the turning style of
            > the kite, as well as further knots which allow you to
            > tailor the activation of the safety to your own needs.
            > it reminds me of the WAC system you see on flysurfers,
            > and certainly gives you the option of making the kite
            > suit your flying style a lot better. more on this
            > later.
            > all the vales are non return, including the main
            > bladder, which is certainly apprechiated. more than
            > once ive had a pump nozzle come put on a windy day and
            > ended up swearing. the only thing missing is a pump
            > leash attachment, but you can hold onto the bridle
            > instead.
            >
            > pumping up the kite is a pretty quick affair, due to
            > the thin struts and small number of them. the kite
            > likes to be super hard to help it maintain its shape.
            > its certainly gets pumped up a lot harder than a
            > regular LEI, and initially this is a bit worrying, but
            > the kite can take it. also, once inflated you notice
            > how light the kite is.
            >
            > flying
            >
            > you can launch the kite like a regular LEI, weighting
            > down the wingtip, or its possible to launch the kite
            > by rolling it over from its leading edge by pulling
            > one of the brakelines. this takes a bit of practice on
            > the land, but is easy enough, and certainly quicker
            > and easier than having to weigh down the wingtip
            > everytime you stuff up a trick. you do need more than
            > 10mph of wind to do this however.
            >
            > once in the air, on the default settings feels light
            > on th bar, but not devoid of feel. the turning
            > response is excellent, the kite responding crisply
            > like a regular LEI without delay. on the default
            > settings the kite turns half like a foil, i.e. on its
            > axis, and half like an LEI. being from a foil
            > background this is no bad thing, and as i said it can
            > be changed if it isnt your thing. the turning radius
            > is good but perhaps not quite as tight as a C shaped
            > LEI.
            > the level of depower feels smooth and progressive, and
            > around the last 3 inches of bar travel, you can feel
            > the pull from the kite fade and hear a gentle flapping
            > of the sail. this is perfectly normal and what the
            > kite is designed to do. push the bar out further and
            > the pull is negligable, as my kite is set up currenty
            > the kite sits at zenith for a while, then slowly
            > flutters down. in stronger winds, it gradually
            > descends to the edge of the window and sits there,
            > benign and awaiting relaunch. by simply adjusting the
            > backline tension via the knots on the brakelines, you
            > can make the safety actuation more or less prononced.
            > i like it set up this way as it gives the benefits of
            > total depower, but the kite stays in the air long
            > enough for you to recover and reride after a trick, so
            > its in effect like have a safe suicide leash. altering
            > the amount of backline tension also allows you to
            > tailor the amount of available top and bottom end of
            > the kite, giving you a bit more windrange and a larger
            > comfort zone.
            > the level of power in the kite is good, certainly
            > more than a 12m C kite. best say the 12m is around the
            > power of a 16 C kite, and this doesnt feel too far
            > from the truth. the power feels smooth and
            > progressive, not as grunty as a C kite but perhaps
            > more like a high aspect foil. dont let this put you
            > off though as this is relative, and the kite is a lot
            > more grunty than a foil. the kite flys fast and
            > accelerates quickly, but sheeting out into the safety
            > zone soon slows things down again. inital impressions
            > remind me of a foil, but only in certain ways. the
            > kite feels recognisable in the way that you fly it,
            > but seems to combine foil and LEI flying qualities.
            >
            > water use
            >
            > my first inital water session was at fleetwood beach
            > in a gusty 20mph plus wind. a few minutes before i'd
            > been out sailing on a regular C shaped kite (a yarga
            > pro) and it'd been your typical sail in gusty wind,
            > i.e. digging in your edge like mad during the gusts,
            > and bearing off downwind and losing ground during the
            > lulls. personally i find sailing in these conditions
            > more like a war with the kite, rather than you and
            > your kit working in unison. this kind of sailing makes
            > my thighs ache and my temper frayed.
            >
            > anyway, i moved onto the waroo and headed out.
            > initially apparent was that now i could maintain a
            > constant board speed, instead of speeding or slowing
            > as the wind changed in order to maintain control, now
            > i could use the depower available on the kite to
            > smooth out the ride. instead of flying off every piece
            > of chop i could cruise as i wished, and the strain
            > going through my legs was much reduced. compared to a
            > regular blimp the board seemed to plane from the speed
            > of the kite, rather than the grunt available from a
            > more classic shaped kite. within a few minutes my
            > condifence level had gained, and i was carving and
            > throwing the board around despite the less than
            > average conditions. jumping was good, but i noticed
            > that it was important to maintain backline tension to
            > get the most boost from the kite. the jumping style is
            > quite foil-like, you didnt need to send the kite back
            > as far as a classic kite, but the hangtime and pop
            > felt good. it took me a while to dail in the timing
            > but it soon comes naturally.
            >
            > the first time in decent conditions was over at shell
            > island in some small peeling sets. i use a 129 X 39
            > twintip and before on my previous kite, it had been
            > difficult to get more than 2 or 3 turns on a wave this
            > size without being pulled off, or worse straight
            > through the face. with this kite it was now possible
            > to line myself up for a section and meter out the
            > power as desired, easing off as i hit the lip or when
            > i carved into toeside to help maintain balance.
            > bogging down didnt seem much of a problem as the waroo
            > was giving me a high initial boardspeed, and i could
            > blend the power of the wave and kite as i wished. this
            > day i was able to continuosly link sets together for
            > over a mile, something i have never been able to do
            > before. to say i felt pretty good was an
            > understatement. and getting back wasnt too much of an
            > ordeal as you can really point the kite upwind and
            > make up some ground.
            >
            > land use
            >
            > i kite with a mountainboard on a regular basis, and
            > this is where i throw most of my freestyle moves as
            > ive kited on the land for much longer. using the waroo
            > on land is pretty straightforward, you can relaunch by
            > rolling the kite as detailed earlier and the depower
            > qualities certainly come in useful. my site is inland
            > and gusty, and the amount of depower helps to prevent
            > loftings a lot more often than on other equipment ive
            > used in the past. the only time ive been able to
            > overfly is inland, and this was in a severely
            > unstable wind. when the kite did this however it just
            > fluttered harmlessly to the ground, the important
            > thing to remember in this instance is to let go of the
            > bar. the kite still has yet to fully invert on me,
            > despite deliberately trying on a number of occasions.
            > my advice is if landboarding with any bow kite keep an
            > eye on it and maintian some backline tension at all
            > times so you can feel what the kite is doing.
            >
            > trickwise, once i had adjusted the turn settings to
            > full 'pivot' style turning, the timing for jumps on
            > land became a lot easier. in a wind of around 15mph i
            > was getting good boosts from the kite with nice float,
            > i still need to work on some aspects of jumping with
            > this kite as i feel there is more performance to come.
            > recently ive been doing some of the kiteloop moves and
            > being able to sheet out mid loop and prevent the
            > dreaded mis timed power surge is very useful. my
            > backloop kiteloops are smoother than ever and i can
            > pop them in less wind. i also apprechiated the fact
            > that in blind its very easy to control the kite and
            > maintain boardspeed without getting pulled off
            > backwards.
            > unhooked the kite accelerates well and doesnt stall
            > too easily, except in very light wind. its also easy
            > to turn the kite one handed with either hand, whatever
            > side of the bar you're holding.
            >
            > conclusion
            >
            > the waroo certainly bridges several different styles
            > of riding and flying styles well. as someone who never
            > owns more than two kites, this versatility is very
            > welcome. plus there is the confidence imbued by the
            > safety systems and level of depower, it really is a
            > very reassuring ride. the kite has the lightness and
            > float of a foil, and the speed and turning of an LEI
            > kite. however, the flying style is a blend of the two,
            > with its own individualities. with the mixed
            > references this is initially a little disconcerting
            > but getting dailled in isnt difficult. i like the
            > simplicity of the kite and its ease of use, along with
            > the attention to detail in the impretant areas. factor
            > in the price and it makes for a compelling package.
            > the only real dissapointing aspect of the package is
            > the pump, mine was abysmal and totally incapable of
            > infalting the kite correctly. but i have contacted
            > best and they're sending me a replacement. all in all
            > this kite has a lot to offer to a lot of people, its
            > certainly made my kiting both easier and more
            > pleasureable
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > __________________________________________________
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            > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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            >
            > If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
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            > to the most frequently asked questions.
            >
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