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Re: [ksurf] GK Sonik or Waroo pros/cons pls

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  • MARQ MORRISON
    hola well i was in a three week waiting period for a waroo but i could not wait and i got a sweet deal on caution answer 12m (live2kite, went out of their way
    Message 1 of 6 , Apr 19, 2006
      hola

      well i was in a three week waiting period for a waroo
      but i could not wait and i got a sweet deal on caution
      answer 12m (live2kite, went out of their way to please
      me). supposedly very similar to the waroo. i used to
      ride a 16.5 contra and the answer really rocks. i'm
      riding in the same range as the contra but i have so
      much more control over the kite. the answer really
      blends the best of the C kites and the bow kites. you
      get the pop and feel of a C when jumping and you the
      really powered grunty feel of a C. you also get the
      depower and the FAST truning speed of a bow, night and
      day when compared with my contra.

      i weigh in at 180 and i rode a 125 litewave in 15-20
      mph wind.

      the transition form my contra to the answer was
      painless. first dive was so fast i almost crashed it
      but after that i adjusted and that was it.

      my roomate flys a crossbow and he could not get over
      how much the answer felt like a C kite when jumping
      and the power. no inversion reports yet. i think this
      will not be a problem due to its shape.

      not to mention i can self launch the same as i did
      with my contra. i really think the hybrid, "in
      bewteen", kites are the future.

      then again what the flip do i know. try before you
      buy.

      peas - Q
      www.intotheairmovie.com

      --- whyserpico <whyserpico@...> wrote:

      > I`m on the market for a bow kite and from what I
      > heard and read my
      > choise now is between Waroo and GK Sonik is there
      > anybody out there
      > that can help.I`m 6' 8" around 190pds winds in the
      > area 10-15(20) and
      > rare occasions towards 25-30.
      > Cheers
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
      > http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the
      > answers
      > to the most frequently asked questions.
      >
      > === to unsubscribe, please send an email to
      > kitesurf-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ===
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      > kitesurf-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >


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    • Jan W Couhig
      Interesting choices! I would be interested to understand your reasoning? Have you tried these kites? Did you consider the ION, One, or Answer? What about the
      Message 2 of 6 , Apr 19, 2006
        Interesting choices! I would be interested to understand your
        reasoning? Have you tried these kites? Did you consider the ION, One,
        or Answer?

        What about the Switchblade, Shockwave, and Turbo Deisle?

        --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "whyserpico" <whyserpico@...> wrote:
        >
        > I`m on the market for a bow kite and from what I heard and read my
        > choise now is between Waroo and GK Sonik is there anybody out there
        > that can help.I`m 6' 8" around 190pds winds in the area 10-15(20) and
        > rare occasions towards 25-30.
        > Cheers
        >
      • Lex Lissauer
        Hi, I m from Europe and I tried to convert your message to European sizes. You appear to be extremely tall (over 2 meter) and with 86 kilogram you must be
        Message 3 of 6 , Apr 20, 2006
          Hi,
          I'm from Europe and I tried to convert your message to European sizes. You
          appear to be extremely tall (over 2 meter) and with 86 kilogram you must be
          quite thin, then. I suppose the wind speed your talking about is knots or
          mph, which is not a very big difference. In both cases you are talking about
          very light wind (3-4 Beaufort). I would recommend a light foil kite like
          Flysurfer Speed (13 or even 17) in that case. If you are rich even the
          "Silverpfeil". It has a higher turning speed than the Sonic 17, and probably
          more power. At the other hand you could use the Sonic 17 also for these
          25-30 winds, but this will not be comfortable sailing. As these winds are
          rare I would buy a cheap kite for these occasions, and the Waroo is cheaper
          than the Sonic. In your situation I would buy a second hand 2004 or 2005
          kite myself. And a not too small board too. 132-140 × 38-41 (4"4'-4"7' ×
          1"3'-1"4')

          Good luck

          On 4/20/06, whyserpico <whyserpico@...> wrote:
          >
          > I`m on the market for a bow kite and from what I heard and read my
          > choise now is between Waroo and GK Sonik is there anybody out there
          > that can help.I`m 6' 8" around 190pds winds in the area 10-15(20) and
          > rare occasions towards 25-30.
          > Cheers
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
          > http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
          > to the most frequently asked questions.
          >
          > === to unsubscribe, please send an email to
          > kitesurf-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ===
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • malink magombo
          best waroo in the last year kiting has seen the next big thing , the bowkite phenomenon. these kites claimed to offer total depower, as well as the ability to
          Message 4 of 6 , Apr 27, 2006
            best waroo

            in the last year kiting has seen the 'next big thing',
            the bowkite phenomenon. these kites claimed to offer
            total depower, as well as the ability to let go of the
            bar and acitate the safety system. however, problems
            became apparent with issues such as stability, the
            power delivery and most importantly, the phenomenon of
            the kite inverting, which can end up causing a very
            expensive repair. best have released the waroo,
            claiming that all of these problems have been
            adressed, and that all the advantages of tradditional
            C shaped LEI's and bow kites have been maintained.

            ok, the bag. to look at its not that special, but it
            packs down small and can be extended to various sizes,
            including being big enough to accomodate the kite with
            struts inflated. theres a pocket for your pump, and
            you can put your bar at the side of the bag.

            the bar itself is well constructed, with a nice small
            daimeter and a contoured end, allowing you to hold it
            more comfortably. this is particularly nice, as some
            bars ive had in the past have been abysmal to hold for
            long periods. the chicken loop has a release activated
            my a loop and pin, and is mounted on the side of the
            loop, which makes it easier to reach and activate than
            one on top of the loop. the depower line is quite
            long, but reachable with my arms. the trimmer is a
            pull/pull system with long toggles, and again is easy
            to reach with the hands. theres nothing worse than
            being overpowered and not being able to reach the trim
            strap! at either end of the bar are OSR handles, which
            allow you to flag the kite out if need be, handy for
            self landing the kite and a reassuring extra safety
            option.

            the kite itself is well made, the stiching is well
            done and the fabric feels good. the quality of the
            printing seems fine, but time will tell. the kite
            itself appears very simple, there really isnt a lot to
            it when you look at it. theres only 5 struts, and
            bridling is nice and simple. the front lines attach to
            a pulley on the main bridle, allowing the pivot point
            for the depower of the kite to move back and forth
            when used. the brake lines go onto a v shaped line
            which terminates on the front and rear of the wingtip.
            on this are adustment knots for the turning style of
            the kite, as well as further knots which allow you to
            tailor the activation of the safety to your own needs.
            it reminds me of the WAC system you see on flysurfers,
            and certainly gives you the option of making the kite
            suit your flying style a lot better. more on this
            later.
            all the vales are non return, including the main
            bladder, which is certainly apprechiated. more than
            once ive had a pump nozzle come put on a windy day and
            ended up swearing. the only thing missing is a pump
            leash attachment, but you can hold onto the bridle
            instead.

            pumping up the kite is a pretty quick affair, due to
            the thin struts and small number of them. the kite
            likes to be super hard to help it maintain its shape.
            its certainly gets pumped up a lot harder than a
            regular LEI, and initially this is a bit worrying, but
            the kite can take it. also, once inflated you notice
            how light the kite is.

            flying

            you can launch the kite like a regular LEI, weighting
            down the wingtip, or its possible to launch the kite
            by rolling it over from its leading edge by pulling
            one of the brakelines. this takes a bit of practice on
            the land, but is easy enough, and certainly quicker
            and easier than having to weigh down the wingtip
            everytime you stuff up a trick. you do need more than
            10mph of wind to do this however.

            once in the air, on the default settings feels light
            on th bar, but not devoid of feel. the turning
            response is excellent, the kite responding crisply
            like a regular LEI without delay. on the default
            settings the kite turns half like a foil, i.e. on its
            axis, and half like an LEI. being from a foil
            background this is no bad thing, and as i said it can
            be changed if it isnt your thing. the turning radius
            is good but perhaps not quite as tight as a C shaped
            LEI.
            the level of depower feels smooth and progressive, and
            around the last 3 inches of bar travel, you can feel
            the pull from the kite fade and hear a gentle flapping
            of the sail. this is perfectly normal and what the
            kite is designed to do. push the bar out further and
            the pull is negligable, as my kite is set up currenty
            the kite sits at zenith for a while, then slowly
            flutters down. in stronger winds, it gradually
            descends to the edge of the window and sits there,
            benign and awaiting relaunch. by simply adjusting the
            backline tension via the knots on the brakelines, you
            can make the safety actuation more or less prononced.
            i like it set up this way as it gives the benefits of
            total depower, but the kite stays in the air long
            enough for you to recover and reride after a trick, so
            its in effect like have a safe suicide leash. altering
            the amount of backline tension also allows you to
            tailor the amount of available top and bottom end of
            the kite, giving you a bit more windrange and a larger
            comfort zone.
            the level of power in the kite is good, certainly
            more than a 12m C kite. best say the 12m is around the
            power of a 16 C kite, and this doesnt feel too far
            from the truth. the power feels smooth and
            progressive, not as grunty as a C kite but perhaps
            more like a high aspect foil. dont let this put you
            off though as this is relative, and the kite is a lot
            more grunty than a foil. the kite flys fast and
            accelerates quickly, but sheeting out into the safety
            zone soon slows things down again. inital impressions
            remind me of a foil, but only in certain ways. the
            kite feels recognisable in the way that you fly it,
            but seems to combine foil and LEI flying qualities.

            water use

            my first inital water session was at fleetwood beach
            in a gusty 20mph plus wind. a few minutes before i'd
            been out sailing on a regular C shaped kite (a yarga
            pro) and it'd been your typical sail in gusty wind,
            i.e. digging in your edge like mad during the gusts,
            and bearing off downwind and losing ground during the
            lulls. personally i find sailing in these conditions
            more like a war with the kite, rather than you and
            your kit working in unison. this kind of sailing makes
            my thighs ache and my temper frayed.

            anyway, i moved onto the waroo and headed out.
            initially apparent was that now i could maintain a
            constant board speed, instead of speeding or slowing
            as the wind changed in order to maintain control, now
            i could use the depower available on the kite to
            smooth out the ride. instead of flying off every piece
            of chop i could cruise as i wished, and the strain
            going through my legs was much reduced. compared to a
            regular blimp the board seemed to plane from the speed
            of the kite, rather than the grunt available from a
            more classic shaped kite. within a few minutes my
            condifence level had gained, and i was carving and
            throwing the board around despite the less than
            average conditions. jumping was good, but i noticed
            that it was important to maintain backline tension to
            get the most boost from the kite. the jumping style is
            quite foil-like, you didnt need to send the kite back
            as far as a classic kite, but the hangtime and pop
            felt good. it took me a while to dail in the timing
            but it soon comes naturally.

            the first time in decent conditions was over at shell
            island in some small peeling sets. i use a 129 X 39
            twintip and before on my previous kite, it had been
            difficult to get more than 2 or 3 turns on a wave this
            size without being pulled off, or worse straight
            through the face. with this kite it was now possible
            to line myself up for a section and meter out the
            power as desired, easing off as i hit the lip or when
            i carved into toeside to help maintain balance.
            bogging down didnt seem much of a problem as the waroo
            was giving me a high initial boardspeed, and i could
            blend the power of the wave and kite as i wished. this
            day i was able to continuosly link sets together for
            over a mile, something i have never been able to do
            before. to say i felt pretty good was an
            understatement. and getting back wasnt too much of an
            ordeal as you can really point the kite upwind and
            make up some ground.

            land use

            i kite with a mountainboard on a regular basis, and
            this is where i throw most of my freestyle moves as
            ive kited on the land for much longer. using the waroo
            on land is pretty straightforward, you can relaunch by
            rolling the kite as detailed earlier and the depower
            qualities certainly come in useful. my site is inland
            and gusty, and the amount of depower helps to prevent
            loftings a lot more often than on other equipment ive
            used in the past. the only time ive been able to
            overfly is inland, and this was in a severely
            unstable wind. when the kite did this however it just
            fluttered harmlessly to the ground, the important
            thing to remember in this instance is to let go of the
            bar. the kite still has yet to fully invert on me,
            despite deliberately trying on a number of occasions.
            my advice is if landboarding with any bow kite keep an
            eye on it and maintian some backline tension at all
            times so you can feel what the kite is doing.

            trickwise, once i had adjusted the turn settings to
            full 'pivot' style turning, the timing for jumps on
            land became a lot easier. in a wind of around 15mph i
            was getting good boosts from the kite with nice float,
            i still need to work on some aspects of jumping with
            this kite as i feel there is more performance to come.
            recently ive been doing some of the kiteloop moves and
            being able to sheet out mid loop and prevent the
            dreaded mis timed power surge is very useful. my
            backloop kiteloops are smoother than ever and i can
            pop them in less wind. i also apprechiated the fact
            that in blind its very easy to control the kite and
            maintain boardspeed without getting pulled off
            backwards.
            unhooked the kite accelerates well and doesnt stall
            too easily, except in very light wind. its also easy
            to turn the kite one handed with either hand, whatever
            side of the bar you're holding.

            conclusion

            the waroo certainly bridges several different styles
            of riding and flying styles well. as someone who never
            owns more than two kites, this versatility is very
            welcome. plus there is the confidence imbued by the
            safety systems and level of depower, it really is a
            very reassuring ride. the kite has the lightness and
            float of a foil, and the speed and turning of an LEI
            kite. however, the flying style is a blend of the two,
            with its own individualities. with the mixed
            references this is initially a little disconcerting
            but getting dailled in isnt difficult. i like the
            simplicity of the kite and its ease of use, along with
            the attention to detail in the impretant areas. factor
            in the price and it makes for a compelling package.
            the only real dissapointing aspect of the package is
            the pump, mine was abysmal and totally incapable of
            infalting the kite correctly. but i have contacted
            best and they're sending me a replacement. all in all
            this kite has a lot to offer to a lot of people, its
            certainly made my kiting both easier and more
            pleasureable




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          • loco4olas
            Bloody outstanding revue. Thanks. ... From: malink magombo To: Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 10:17 AM
            Message 5 of 6 , Apr 28, 2006
              Bloody outstanding revue.

              Thanks.

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "malink magombo" <studentbastard@...>
              To: <kitesurf@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 10:17 AM
              Subject: Re: [ksurf] GK Sonik or Waroo pros/cons pls


              >
              >
              > best waroo
              >
              > in the last year kiting has seen the 'next big thing',
              > the bowkite phenomenon. these kites claimed to offer
              > total depower, as well as the ability to let go of the
              > bar and acitate the safety system. however, problems
              > became apparent with issues such as stability, the
              > power delivery and most importantly, the phenomenon of
              > the kite inverting, which can end up causing a very
              > expensive repair. best have released the waroo,
              > claiming that all of these problems have been
              > adressed, and that all the advantages of tradditional
              > C shaped LEI's and bow kites have been maintained.
              >
              > ok, the bag. to look at its not that special, but it
              > packs down small and can be extended to various sizes,
              > including being big enough to accomodate the kite with
              > struts inflated. theres a pocket for your pump, and
              > you can put your bar at the side of the bag.
              >
              > the bar itself is well constructed, with a nice small
              > daimeter and a contoured end, allowing you to hold it
              > more comfortably. this is particularly nice, as some
              > bars ive had in the past have been abysmal to hold for
              > long periods. the chicken loop has a release activated
              > my a loop and pin, and is mounted on the side of the
              > loop, which makes it easier to reach and activate than
              > one on top of the loop. the depower line is quite
              > long, but reachable with my arms. the trimmer is a
              > pull/pull system with long toggles, and again is easy
              > to reach with the hands. theres nothing worse than
              > being overpowered and not being able to reach the trim
              > strap! at either end of the bar are OSR handles, which
              > allow you to flag the kite out if need be, handy for
              > self landing the kite and a reassuring extra safety
              > option.
              >
              > the kite itself is well made, the stiching is well
              > done and the fabric feels good. the quality of the
              > printing seems fine, but time will tell. the kite
              > itself appears very simple, there really isnt a lot to
              > it when you look at it. theres only 5 struts, and
              > bridling is nice and simple. the front lines attach to
              > a pulley on the main bridle, allowing the pivot point
              > for the depower of the kite to move back and forth
              > when used. the brake lines go onto a v shaped line
              > which terminates on the front and rear of the wingtip.
              > on this are adustment knots for the turning style of
              > the kite, as well as further knots which allow you to
              > tailor the activation of the safety to your own needs.
              > it reminds me of the WAC system you see on flysurfers,
              > and certainly gives you the option of making the kite
              > suit your flying style a lot better. more on this
              > later.
              > all the vales are non return, including the main
              > bladder, which is certainly apprechiated. more than
              > once ive had a pump nozzle come put on a windy day and
              > ended up swearing. the only thing missing is a pump
              > leash attachment, but you can hold onto the bridle
              > instead.
              >
              > pumping up the kite is a pretty quick affair, due to
              > the thin struts and small number of them. the kite
              > likes to be super hard to help it maintain its shape.
              > its certainly gets pumped up a lot harder than a
              > regular LEI, and initially this is a bit worrying, but
              > the kite can take it. also, once inflated you notice
              > how light the kite is.
              >
              > flying
              >
              > you can launch the kite like a regular LEI, weighting
              > down the wingtip, or its possible to launch the kite
              > by rolling it over from its leading edge by pulling
              > one of the brakelines. this takes a bit of practice on
              > the land, but is easy enough, and certainly quicker
              > and easier than having to weigh down the wingtip
              > everytime you stuff up a trick. you do need more than
              > 10mph of wind to do this however.
              >
              > once in the air, on the default settings feels light
              > on th bar, but not devoid of feel. the turning
              > response is excellent, the kite responding crisply
              > like a regular LEI without delay. on the default
              > settings the kite turns half like a foil, i.e. on its
              > axis, and half like an LEI. being from a foil
              > background this is no bad thing, and as i said it can
              > be changed if it isnt your thing. the turning radius
              > is good but perhaps not quite as tight as a C shaped
              > LEI.
              > the level of depower feels smooth and progressive, and
              > around the last 3 inches of bar travel, you can feel
              > the pull from the kite fade and hear a gentle flapping
              > of the sail. this is perfectly normal and what the
              > kite is designed to do. push the bar out further and
              > the pull is negligable, as my kite is set up currenty
              > the kite sits at zenith for a while, then slowly
              > flutters down. in stronger winds, it gradually
              > descends to the edge of the window and sits there,
              > benign and awaiting relaunch. by simply adjusting the
              > backline tension via the knots on the brakelines, you
              > can make the safety actuation more or less prononced.
              > i like it set up this way as it gives the benefits of
              > total depower, but the kite stays in the air long
              > enough for you to recover and reride after a trick, so
              > its in effect like have a safe suicide leash. altering
              > the amount of backline tension also allows you to
              > tailor the amount of available top and bottom end of
              > the kite, giving you a bit more windrange and a larger
              > comfort zone.
              > the level of power in the kite is good, certainly
              > more than a 12m C kite. best say the 12m is around the
              > power of a 16 C kite, and this doesnt feel too far
              > from the truth. the power feels smooth and
              > progressive, not as grunty as a C kite but perhaps
              > more like a high aspect foil. dont let this put you
              > off though as this is relative, and the kite is a lot
              > more grunty than a foil. the kite flys fast and
              > accelerates quickly, but sheeting out into the safety
              > zone soon slows things down again. inital impressions
              > remind me of a foil, but only in certain ways. the
              > kite feels recognisable in the way that you fly it,
              > but seems to combine foil and LEI flying qualities.
              >
              > water use
              >
              > my first inital water session was at fleetwood beach
              > in a gusty 20mph plus wind. a few minutes before i'd
              > been out sailing on a regular C shaped kite (a yarga
              > pro) and it'd been your typical sail in gusty wind,
              > i.e. digging in your edge like mad during the gusts,
              > and bearing off downwind and losing ground during the
              > lulls. personally i find sailing in these conditions
              > more like a war with the kite, rather than you and
              > your kit working in unison. this kind of sailing makes
              > my thighs ache and my temper frayed.
              >
              > anyway, i moved onto the waroo and headed out.
              > initially apparent was that now i could maintain a
              > constant board speed, instead of speeding or slowing
              > as the wind changed in order to maintain control, now
              > i could use the depower available on the kite to
              > smooth out the ride. instead of flying off every piece
              > of chop i could cruise as i wished, and the strain
              > going through my legs was much reduced. compared to a
              > regular blimp the board seemed to plane from the speed
              > of the kite, rather than the grunt available from a
              > more classic shaped kite. within a few minutes my
              > condifence level had gained, and i was carving and
              > throwing the board around despite the less than
              > average conditions. jumping was good, but i noticed
              > that it was important to maintain backline tension to
              > get the most boost from the kite. the jumping style is
              > quite foil-like, you didnt need to send the kite back
              > as far as a classic kite, but the hangtime and pop
              > felt good. it took me a while to dail in the timing
              > but it soon comes naturally.
              >
              > the first time in decent conditions was over at shell
              > island in some small peeling sets. i use a 129 X 39
              > twintip and before on my previous kite, it had been
              > difficult to get more than 2 or 3 turns on a wave this
              > size without being pulled off, or worse straight
              > through the face. with this kite it was now possible
              > to line myself up for a section and meter out the
              > power as desired, easing off as i hit the lip or when
              > i carved into toeside to help maintain balance.
              > bogging down didnt seem much of a problem as the waroo
              > was giving me a high initial boardspeed, and i could
              > blend the power of the wave and kite as i wished. this
              > day i was able to continuosly link sets together for
              > over a mile, something i have never been able to do
              > before. to say i felt pretty good was an
              > understatement. and getting back wasnt too much of an
              > ordeal as you can really point the kite upwind and
              > make up some ground.
              >
              > land use
              >
              > i kite with a mountainboard on a regular basis, and
              > this is where i throw most of my freestyle moves as
              > ive kited on the land for much longer. using the waroo
              > on land is pretty straightforward, you can relaunch by
              > rolling the kite as detailed earlier and the depower
              > qualities certainly come in useful. my site is inland
              > and gusty, and the amount of depower helps to prevent
              > loftings a lot more often than on other equipment ive
              > used in the past. the only time ive been able to
              > overfly is inland, and this was in a severely
              > unstable wind. when the kite did this however it just
              > fluttered harmlessly to the ground, the important
              > thing to remember in this instance is to let go of the
              > bar. the kite still has yet to fully invert on me,
              > despite deliberately trying on a number of occasions.
              > my advice is if landboarding with any bow kite keep an
              > eye on it and maintian some backline tension at all
              > times so you can feel what the kite is doing.
              >
              > trickwise, once i had adjusted the turn settings to
              > full 'pivot' style turning, the timing for jumps on
              > land became a lot easier. in a wind of around 15mph i
              > was getting good boosts from the kite with nice float,
              > i still need to work on some aspects of jumping with
              > this kite as i feel there is more performance to come.
              > recently ive been doing some of the kiteloop moves and
              > being able to sheet out mid loop and prevent the
              > dreaded mis timed power surge is very useful. my
              > backloop kiteloops are smoother than ever and i can
              > pop them in less wind. i also apprechiated the fact
              > that in blind its very easy to control the kite and
              > maintain boardspeed without getting pulled off
              > backwards.
              > unhooked the kite accelerates well and doesnt stall
              > too easily, except in very light wind. its also easy
              > to turn the kite one handed with either hand, whatever
              > side of the bar you're holding.
              >
              > conclusion
              >
              > the waroo certainly bridges several different styles
              > of riding and flying styles well. as someone who never
              > owns more than two kites, this versatility is very
              > welcome. plus there is the confidence imbued by the
              > safety systems and level of depower, it really is a
              > very reassuring ride. the kite has the lightness and
              > float of a foil, and the speed and turning of an LEI
              > kite. however, the flying style is a blend of the two,
              > with its own individualities. with the mixed
              > references this is initially a little disconcerting
              > but getting dailled in isnt difficult. i like the
              > simplicity of the kite and its ease of use, along with
              > the attention to detail in the impretant areas. factor
              > in the price and it makes for a compelling package.
              > the only real dissapointing aspect of the package is
              > the pump, mine was abysmal and totally incapable of
              > infalting the kite correctly. but i have contacted
              > best and they're sending me a replacement. all in all
              > this kite has a lot to offer to a lot of people, its
              > certainly made my kiting both easier and more
              > pleasureable
              >
              >
              >
              >
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