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Re: Twinskins

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  • pluvious2002
    you re right to be intrigued by the peter lynn kites. they re great. i love them. when just starting out a few years back, i, too, was interested in the PL
    Message 1 of 12 , Jan 24, 2005
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      you're right to be intrigued by the peter lynn kites. they're great. i
      love them.

      when just starting out a few years back, i, too, was interested in the
      PL simplicity, no bridle, easy to launch and land alone, etc. i was
      also very impressed by the passion and dedication of other arc fliers,
      many of whom were posting on kiteforum at the time (most have since
      moved to arcusers) so i took a flyer and bought a brand new 1120. i
      haven't looked back since.

      all of the arcs are very stable, excellent kites to learn on. the
      bomba, in particular, is optimised for relaunch and learning. i just
      saw a quiver of used bombas for sale on arcusers...i think you could
      get a used bomba for about $400. pretty good...

      be careful and be sure and get some lessons, as kitesurfing can be
      quite dangerous. wear a kite leash with a tested quick release and
      releasable chicken loop.
    • Anne Gasc
      When you learn you need the easiest, safest kite you can find... You should check on ikite.com, free classifieds and find an affordable old kite (you re going
      Message 2 of 12 , Jan 24, 2005
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        When you learn you need the easiest, safest kite you can find...
        You should check on ikite.com, free classifieds and find an affordable old kite (you're going to ruin it within a few months anyway) and you'll see that they are ALL inflatable ones.
        Foils could be fun but really why don't you take the experience from others instead of learning teh hard way?...
        Naish kite are the ones I use and after trying cheaper ones (Best, EH, RRD etc...) I come back to a point: Naish & North are the best!
        Have fun
        Aloha,
        Anne


        suntrax <brian@...> wrote:

        Hey Mark

        I did say I was biased!! but was also empathising with the vintage.....

        Not wanting to go into too much detail at the time, my point about Flexifoil
        is that they are a company who have been making ram air kites for a long
        time and after trying unsuccessfully to market ram air kites for
        kitesurfing they went back to the drawing board and developed an inflatable
        kite range for that purpose - surely a company with so much experience with
        ram airs would have stayed with that style if they believed it to be the
        right thing.

        We also have a (new model) demo Flysurfer Ectsacy in the store, but apart
        from Steve my main team rider (who is also a paraglider) I can't get people
        to try it. Having flown it myself I find it too unpredictable to inspire
        confidence - but maybe I am too old........... the bar, depower and leash
        system is top drawer.

        If Graeme lived in Cape Town we would already have him riding a Boxer :-)

        Best regards

        Brian

        (========o]>
        ./`\/````````\-/\.....
        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

        Brian Wilson
        Suntrax
        Tel/fax 27 (0)21 5560044
        cell; 0824656696
        13 Bayside Centre
        Tableview
        Cape Town
        www.suntrax.co.za
        info@...
        Mon - Fri 9am-7pm
        Sat 9am-5pm
        Sun 9.30am- 2.00pm

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Mark Pronk"
        To:
        Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 5:37 PM
        Subject: RE: [ksurf] Twinskins


        >
        > Brian, Greame,
        >
        > My idea's on inflateables / ram-airs are a bit different. There ARE more
        > then a few schools that teach using Ram-Airs. I'd say the odds are a bit
        > like the odds of people buying Ram-Air kites. Most people choose the
        > obvious choice. Buy Nike trainers, since everybody has them. If you get
        > my point. Modern Ram-Airs offer high stability, high relaunch
        > probability (havent drowned my kites for a single time without being
        > able to relaunch), safety systems that are really above standard, etc.
        >
        > It's not surprising Flexifoil doesn't recommend any of their ram-airs
        > for kitesurfing, simply because all of the Flexifoil ram-air kites are
        > open celled (and i think you as a kite-vendor should know that Brian).
        > But if you'd check out the Flysurfer.de or Peter Lynn Kiteboarding
        > brochure for instance you'd see that they recommend ALL but a few models
        > for water use! Flysurfer.de and Peter Lynn Kiteboarding produce closed
        > cell kites for water use.
        >
        > Open celled kites aren't for water use! Period!
        >
        > Nevertheless there's plenty of Ram-Air kites around that are just as
        > stable as inflateables. Not in all conditions (say 35+ knots, since
        > tubes offer rigidity trough the inflated leading edge tube) but most
        > certainly in more then 95% of the conditions you'd come across...
        >
        > Personally i'd highly recommend you'd try ANY kite you'd find
        > interesting (which includes a Naish Boxer too, Brian would be glad to
        > demo you one, since he's Naish dealer!) before you make the purchase.
        >
        > Of course this is just my 2 cents.
        >
        > _________________
        > Have fun!
        > Mark
        >
        >
        > Happy kiting, whatever you fly!
        > foilzone.com foils.nl
        >
        >
        > Foilzone.com
        > The Hague
        > The Netherlands




        If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
        http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
        to the most frequently asked questions.

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      • suntrax
        Now wasn t that a nice informative, good natured thread - reminds me of the good old days on this group before a certain Australian joined the group :-) Best
        Message 3 of 12 , Jan 25, 2005
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          Now wasn't that a nice informative, good natured thread - reminds me of the
          good old days on this group before a certain Australian joined the group :-)


          Best regards

          Brian

          (========o]></

          ./`\/````````\-/\.....
          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          Brian Wilson
          Suntrax
          Tel/fax 27 (0)21 5560044
          cell; 0824656696
          13 Bayside Centre
          Tableview
          Cape Town
          www.suntrax.co.za
          info@...
          Mon - Fri 9am-7pm
          Sat 9am-5pm
          Sun 9.30am- 2.00pm

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Anne Gasc" <annelabaroudeuse@...>
          To: <kitesurf@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 11:28 PM
          Subject: Re: [ksurf] Twinskins


          >
          > When you learn you need the easiest, safest kite you can find...
          > You should check on ikite.com, free classifieds and find an affordable old
          kite (you're going to ruin it within a few months anyway) and you'll see
          that they are ALL inflatable ones.
          > Foils could be fun but really why don't you take the experience from
          others instead of learning teh hard way?...
          > Naish kite are the ones I use and after trying cheaper ones (Best, EH, RRD
          etc...) I come back to a point: Naish & North are the best!
          > Have fun
          > Aloha,
          > Anne
          >
          >
          > suntrax <brian@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hey Mark
          >
          > I did say I was biased!! but was also empathising with the vintage.....
          >
          > Not wanting to go into too much detail at the time, my point about
          Flexifoil
          > is that they are a company who have been making ram air kites for a long
          > time and after trying unsuccessfully to market ram air kites for
          > kitesurfing they went back to the drawing board and developed an
          inflatable
          > kite range for that purpose - surely a company with so much experience
          with
          > ram airs would have stayed with that style if they believed it to be the
          > right thing.
          >
          > We also have a (new model) demo Flysurfer Ectsacy in the store, but apart
          > from Steve my main team rider (who is also a paraglider) I can't get
          people
          > to try it. Having flown it myself I find it too unpredictable to inspire
          > confidence - but maybe I am too old........... the bar, depower and leash
          > system is top drawer.
          >
          > If Graeme lived in Cape Town we would already have him riding a Boxer :-)
          >
          > Best regards
          >
          > Brian
          >
          > (========o]>
          > ./`\/````````\-/\.....
          > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          >
          > Brian Wilson
          > Suntrax
          > Tel/fax 27 (0)21 5560044
          > cell; 0824656696
          > 13 Bayside Centre
          > Tableview
          > Cape Town
          > www.suntrax.co.za
          > info@...
          > Mon - Fri 9am-7pm
          > Sat 9am-5pm
          > Sun 9.30am- 2.00pm
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "Mark Pronk"
          > To:
          > Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 5:37 PM
          > Subject: RE: [ksurf] Twinskins
          >
          >
          > >
          > > Brian, Greame,
          > >
          > > My idea's on inflateables / ram-airs are a bit different. There ARE more
          > > then a few schools that teach using Ram-Airs. I'd say the odds are a bit
          > > like the odds of people buying Ram-Air kites. Most people choose the
          > > obvious choice. Buy Nike trainers, since everybody has them. If you get
          > > my point. Modern Ram-Airs offer high stability, high relaunch
          > > probability (havent drowned my kites for a single time without being
          > > able to relaunch), safety systems that are really above standard, etc.
          > >
          > > It's not surprising Flexifoil doesn't recommend any of their ram-airs
          > > for kitesurfing, simply because all of the Flexifoil ram-air kites are
          > > open celled (and i think you as a kite-vendor should know that Brian).
          > > But if you'd check out the Flysurfer.de or Peter Lynn Kiteboarding
          > > brochure for instance you'd see that they recommend ALL but a few models
          > > for water use! Flysurfer.de and Peter Lynn Kiteboarding produce closed
          > > cell kites for water use.
          > >
          > > Open celled kites aren't for water use! Period!
          > >
          > > Nevertheless there's plenty of Ram-Air kites around that are just as
          > > stable as inflateables. Not in all conditions (say 35+ knots, since
          > > tubes offer rigidity trough the inflated leading edge tube) but most
          > > certainly in more then 95% of the conditions you'd come across...
          > >
          > > Personally i'd highly recommend you'd try ANY kite you'd find
          > > interesting (which includes a Naish Boxer too, Brian would be glad to
          > > demo you one, since he's Naish dealer!) before you make the purchase.
          > >
          > > Of course this is just my 2 cents.
          > >
          > > _________________
          > > Have fun!
          > > Mark
          > >
          > >
          > > Happy kiting, whatever you fly!
          > > foilzone.com foils.nl
          > >
          > >
          > > Foilzone.com
          > > The Hague
          > > The Netherlands
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
          > http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
          > to the most frequently asked questions.
          >
          > === to unsubscribe, please send an email to
          kitesurf-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ===
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          > Do you Yahoo!?
          > Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
          > http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
          > to the most frequently asked questions.
          >
          > === to unsubscribe, please send an email to
          kitesurf-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ===
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Mark Pronk
          Giggle..... WHAHAHAHAHA.... PSML... ROFL.... :P:P:P AMEN Brian! _________________ Have fun! Mark Happy kiting, whatever you fly! foilzone.com
          Message 4 of 12 , Jan 25, 2005
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            Giggle.....

            WHAHAHAHAHA.... PSML... ROFL.... :P:P:P

            AMEN Brian!

            _________________
            Have fun!
            Mark


            Happy kiting, whatever you fly!
            foilzone.com foils.nl


            Foilzone.com
            The Hague
            The Netherlands

            M: info@...


            All we do is foilkites!



            -----Original Message-----
            From: suntrax [mailto:brian@...]
            Sent: dinsdag 25 januari 2005 14:29
            To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [ksurf] Twinskins


            Now wasn't that a nice informative, good natured thread - reminds me of
            the good old days on this group before a certain Australian joined the
            group :-)


            Best regards

            Brian

            (========o]></

            ./`\/````````\-/\.....
            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

            Brian Wilson
            Suntrax
            Tel/fax 27 (0)21 5560044
            cell; 0824656696
            13 Bayside Centre
            Tableview
            Cape Town
            www.suntrax.co.za
            info@...
            Mon - Fri 9am-7pm
            Sat 9am-5pm
            Sun 9.30am- 2.00pm

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Anne Gasc" <annelabaroudeuse@...>
            To: <kitesurf@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 11:28 PM
            Subject: Re: [ksurf] Twinskins


            >
            > When you learn you need the easiest, safest kite you can find...
            > You should check on ikite.com, free classifieds and find an affordable
            old
            kite (you're going to ruin it within a few months anyway) and you'll see
            that they are ALL inflatable ones.
            > Foils could be fun but really why don't you take the experience from
            others instead of learning teh hard way?...
            > Naish kite are the ones I use and after trying cheaper ones (Best, EH,
            RRD
            etc...) I come back to a point: Naish & North are the best!
            > Have fun
            > Aloha,
            > Anne
            >
            >
            > suntrax <brian@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hey Mark
            >
            > I did say I was biased!! but was also empathising with the
            vintage.....
            >
            > Not wanting to go into too much detail at the time, my point about
            Flexifoil
            > is that they are a company who have been making ram air kites for a
            long
            > time and after trying unsuccessfully to market ram air kites for
            > kitesurfing they went back to the drawing board and developed an
            inflatable
            > kite range for that purpose - surely a company with so much experience
            with
            > ram airs would have stayed with that style if they believed it to be
            the
            > right thing.
            >
            > We also have a (new model) demo Flysurfer Ectsacy in the store, but
            apart
            > from Steve my main team rider (who is also a paraglider) I can't get
            people
            > to try it. Having flown it myself I find it too unpredictable to
            inspire
            > confidence - but maybe I am too old........... the bar, depower and
            leash
            > system is top drawer.
            >
            > If Graeme lived in Cape Town we would already have him riding a Boxer
            :-)
            >
            > Best regards
            >
            > Brian
            >
            > (========o]>
            > ./`\/````````\-/\.....
            > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
            >
            > Brian Wilson
            > Suntrax
            > Tel/fax 27 (0)21 5560044
            > cell; 0824656696
            > 13 Bayside Centre
            > Tableview
            > Cape Town
            > www.suntrax.co.za
            > info@...
            > Mon - Fri 9am-7pm
            > Sat 9am-5pm
            > Sun 9.30am- 2.00pm
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "Mark Pronk"
            > To:
            > Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 5:37 PM
            > Subject: RE: [ksurf] Twinskins
            >
            >
            > >
            > > Brian, Greame,
            > >
            > > My idea's on inflateables / ram-airs are a bit different. There ARE
            more
            > > then a few schools that teach using Ram-Airs. I'd say the odds are a
            bit
            > > like the odds of people buying Ram-Air kites. Most people choose the
            > > obvious choice. Buy Nike trainers, since everybody has them. If you
            get
            > > my point. Modern Ram-Airs offer high stability, high relaunch
            > > probability (havent drowned my kites for a single time without being
            > > able to relaunch), safety systems that are really above standard,
            etc.
            > >
            > > It's not surprising Flexifoil doesn't recommend any of their
            ram-airs
            > > for kitesurfing, simply because all of the Flexifoil ram-air kites
            are
            > > open celled (and i think you as a kite-vendor should know that
            Brian).
            > > But if you'd check out the Flysurfer.de or Peter Lynn Kiteboarding
            > > brochure for instance you'd see that they recommend ALL but a few
            models
            > > for water use! Flysurfer.de and Peter Lynn Kiteboarding produce
            closed
            > > cell kites for water use.
            > >
            > > Open celled kites aren't for water use! Period!
            > >
            > > Nevertheless there's plenty of Ram-Air kites around that are just as
            > > stable as inflateables. Not in all conditions (say 35+ knots, since
            > > tubes offer rigidity trough the inflated leading edge tube) but most
            > > certainly in more then 95% of the conditions you'd come across...
            > >
            > > Personally i'd highly recommend you'd try ANY kite you'd find
            > > interesting (which includes a Naish Boxer too, Brian would be glad
            to
            > > demo you one, since he's Naish dealer!) before you make the
            purchase.
            > >
            > > Of course this is just my 2 cents.
            > >
            > > _________________
            > > Have fun!
            > > Mark
            > >
            > >
            > > Happy kiting, whatever you fly!
            > > foilzone.com foils.nl
            > >
            > >
            > > Foilzone.com
            > > The Hague
            > > The Netherlands
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
            > http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
            > to the most frequently asked questions.
            >
            > === to unsubscribe, please send an email to
            kitesurf-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ===
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > Do you Yahoo!?
            > Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            > If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
            > http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
            > to the most frequently asked questions.
            >
            > === to unsubscribe, please send an email to
            kitesurf-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ===
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >




            If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
            http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
            to the most frequently asked questions.

            === to unsubscribe, please send an email to
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            Yahoo! Groups Links
          • theflyingtinman
            Graeme, The bias toward inflatables is probably due in large part to a few things. Since LEIs are already in the majority there is no doubt an image thing
            Message 5 of 12 , Feb 1 12:21 PM
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              Graeme,

              The bias toward inflatables is probably due in large part
              to a few things. Since LEIs are already in the majority there
              is no doubt an "image" thing that keeps many riders away from
              the less popular ram-airs. LEI domination also fuels itself by ensuring that training is, in most areas, only available on
              LEIs. And there is also a perception among some riders that
              having a big inflatable tube out there on the ocean makes for
              a better chance of rescue or self-rescue if the kite goes down
              and can't relaunch.

              I can't speak definitively about LEIs as I am PLK rider and
              own only one LEI--a 20m Yarga that I won in a competition and
              have not yet ridden on water. I won't claim better performance
              on my PLKs in good conditions (mabe the Venoms will close that perceived gap) but from experience I am often first out and
              last in at my local site when conditions are marginal and my
              Arcs will stay aloft when almost all the LEIs around me are
              on the water due to gustiness or lulls in the wind.

              It is true that a downed LEI will sit on the water until the
              wind is relaunchable but PLKs will a) generally relaunch very
              quickly and easily when down and b) go down so rarely in the
              hands of an experienced user that their "floatability" is
              realy not an issue. And in any case on calm water I once had
              a S-Arc 1120 down in a 45 minute lull and still relaunched
              it when the wind came up. Had to drain a bit of water before
              it would fly right but it did eventually get me up and riding
              instead of swimming.

              The easy self-launch and landing of PLKs makes also them ideal
              for solo sessions (which I seem do quite often)

              I started on standard Arcs four or five years ago and stuck
              with PLKs throughout. I will probably trade my Guerillas
              for Venoms this year.

              Steve T




              --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "Marina Kitto" <kitto2@b...> wrote:
              > Hi all
              >
              > I'm looking to buy my first kite, for kitesurfing. I'm 52 years old and like the look of twinskin/ram air kites, for example Peter Lynn Bomba. 90% of the kites flown in my area are inflatables. Why is this? What's wrong with twinskins? Am I missing something vital in the reading/research I've been doing before I buy my first kite?
              >
              > I seem to read that twinskins are more robust, easy to fly for beginners. If this is the case, why aren't there more of them?
              >
              > Looking forward to your helpful advice....
              >
              > Cheers
              > Graeme
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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