Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Twinskins

Expand Messages
  • Marina Kitto
    Hi all I m looking to buy my first kite, for kitesurfing. I m 52 years old and like the look of twinskin/ram air kites, for example Peter Lynn Bomba. 90% of
    Message 1 of 12 , Jan 24, 2005
      Hi all

      I'm looking to buy my first kite, for kitesurfing. I'm 52 years old and like the look of twinskin/ram air kites, for example Peter Lynn Bomba. 90% of the kites flown in my area are inflatables. Why is this? What's wrong with twinskins? Am I missing something vital in the reading/research I've been doing before I buy my first kite?

      I seem to read that twinskins are more robust, easy to fly for beginners. If this is the case, why aren't there more of them?

      Looking forward to your helpful advice....

      Cheers
      Graeme

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Iain Wood
      ... Each has advantages, and different people have their own favourites. There is nothing wrong with foil kites or arc kites and if that is what you want to
      Message 2 of 12 , Jan 24, 2005
        On 24 Jan 2005, at 11:47, Marina Kitto wrote:

        >
        > Hi all
        >
        > I'm looking to buy my first kite, for kitesurfing. I'm 52 years old
        > and like the look of twinskin/ram air kites, for example Peter Lynn
        > Bomba. 90% of the kites flown in my area are inflatables. Why is
        > this? What's wrong with twinskins? Am I missing something vital in
        > the reading/research I've been doing before I buy my first kite?
        >
        >

        Each has advantages, and different people have their own favourites.
        There is nothing wrong with foil kites or arc kites and if that is what
        you want to use, go for it. Bear in mind that they are different and it
        will be easier to learn to use an LEI if only because most schools use
        them.
        A friend (who is a way better kitsurfer than me) swears by peter lynn
        arc kites. I like flysurfers. Another friend uses LEI's.

        Iain
      • suntrax
        Hi Graeme From a biased 58 year old who learned to kitesurf 5 years ago. Ram air kites have improved a lot but are not in the league of inflateables for
        Message 3 of 12 , Jan 24, 2005
          Hi Graeme

          From a biased 58 year old who learned to kitesurf 5 years ago.
          Ram air kites have improved a lot but are not in the league of inflateables
          for learning, especially for us more mature citizens. Today's inflateables
          are very stable, have a big wind range, plus they water relaunch every time
          PROVIDED there is sufficient wind -.ram air kites are more skittish,
          definitely not as stable and their water relaunchability is always suspect.
          I do not know of one kite school that uses ram airs, presumably due to the
          above characteristics.

          Fact is that due to sales of around 100 inflatable - 1 ram air, there is
          obviously much more money spent on inflatable R & D, with obvious results.

          Reading through the Flexifoil brochure, they do not recommend any of their
          ram air kites, including the Blade, for kitesurfing, they only recommend
          their inflateables.

          Am sure that in the future ram air design will amalgamate with inflatable to
          give us more efficient kites, but in the meantime inflateables are ahead of
          the game..

          Would highly recommend the freeride Naish Boxer as a first time/intermediate
          kite.

          Best regards

          Brian

          (========o]></

          ./`\/````````\-/\.....
          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          Brian Wilson
          Suntrax
          Tel/fax 27 (0)21 5560044
          cell; 0824656696
          13 Bayside Centre
          Tableview
          Cape Town
          www.suntrax.co.za
          info@...
          Mon - Fri 9am-7pm
          Sat 9am-5pm
          Sun 9.30am- 2.00pm

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Marina Kitto" <kitto2@...>
          To: "Kitesurf" <kitesurf@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 1:47 PM
          Subject: [ksurf] Twinskins


          >
          > Hi all
          >
          > I'm looking to buy my first kite, for kitesurfing. I'm 52 years old and
          like the look of twinskin/ram air kites, for example Peter Lynn Bomba. 90%
          of the kites flown in my area are inflatables. Why is this? What's wrong
          with twinskins? Am I missing something vital in the reading/research I've
          been doing before I buy my first kite?
          >
          > I seem to read that twinskins are more robust, easy to fly for beginners.
          If this is the case, why aren't there more of them?
          >
          > Looking forward to your helpful advice....
          >
          > Cheers
          > Graeme
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
          > http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
          > to the most frequently asked questions.
          >
          > === to unsubscribe, please send an email to
          kitesurf-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ===
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Mark Pronk
          Brian, Greame, My idea s on inflateables / ram-airs are a bit different. There ARE more then a few schools that teach using Ram-Airs. I d say the odds are a
          Message 4 of 12 , Jan 24, 2005
            Brian, Greame,

            My idea's on inflateables / ram-airs are a bit different. There ARE more
            then a few schools that teach using Ram-Airs. I'd say the odds are a bit
            like the odds of people buying Ram-Air kites. Most people choose the
            obvious choice. Buy Nike trainers, since everybody has them. If you get
            my point. Modern Ram-Airs offer high stability, high relaunch
            probability (havent drowned my kites for a single time without being
            able to relaunch), safety systems that are really above standard, etc.

            It's not surprising Flexifoil doesn't recommend any of their ram-airs
            for kitesurfing, simply because all of the Flexifoil ram-air kites are
            open celled (and i think you as a kite-vendor should know that Brian).
            But if you'd check out the Flysurfer.de or Peter Lynn Kiteboarding
            brochure for instance you'd see that they recommend ALL but a few models
            for water use! Flysurfer.de and Peter Lynn Kiteboarding produce closed
            cell kites for water use.

            Open celled kites aren't for water use! Period!

            Nevertheless there's plenty of Ram-Air kites around that are just as
            stable as inflateables. Not in all conditions (say 35+ knots, since
            tubes offer rigidity trough the inflated leading edge tube) but most
            certainly in more then 95% of the conditions you'd come across...

            Personally i'd highly recommend you'd try ANY kite you'd find
            interesting (which includes a Naish Boxer too, Brian would be glad to
            demo you one, since he's Naish dealer!) before you make the purchase.

            Of course this is just my 2 cents.

            _________________
            Have fun!
            Mark


            Happy kiting, whatever you fly!
            foilzone.com foils.nl


            Foilzone.com
            The Hague
            The Netherlands

            M: info@...


            All we do is foilkites!




            -----Original Message-----
            From: suntrax [mailto:brian@...]
            Sent: maandag 24 januari 2005 15:52
            To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [ksurf] Twinskins


            Hi Graeme

            From a biased 58 year old who learned to kitesurf 5 years ago.
            Ram air kites have improved a lot but are not in the league of
            inflateables for learning, especially for us more mature citizens.
            Today's inflateables are very stable, have a big wind range, plus they
            water relaunch every time PROVIDED there is sufficient wind -.ram air
            kites are more skittish, definitely not as stable and their water
            relaunchability is always suspect.
            I do not know of one kite school that uses ram airs, presumably due to
            the above characteristics.

            Fact is that due to sales of around 100 inflatable - 1 ram air, there is
            obviously much more money spent on inflatable R & D, with obvious
            results.

            Reading through the Flexifoil brochure, they do not recommend any of
            their ram air kites, including the Blade, for kitesurfing, they only
            recommend their inflateables.

            Am sure that in the future ram air design will amalgamate with
            inflatable to give us more efficient kites, but in the meantime
            inflateables are ahead of the game..

            Would highly recommend the freeride Naish Boxer as a first
            time/intermediate kite.

            Best regards

            Brian

            (========o]></

            ./`\/````````\-/\.....
            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

            Brian Wilson
            Suntrax
            Tel/fax 27 (0)21 5560044
            cell; 0824656696
            13 Bayside Centre
            Tableview
            Cape Town
            www.suntrax.co.za
            info@...
            Mon - Fri 9am-7pm
            Sat 9am-5pm
            Sun 9.30am- 2.00pm

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Marina Kitto" <kitto2@...>
            To: "Kitesurf" <kitesurf@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 1:47 PM
            Subject: [ksurf] Twinskins


            >
            > Hi all
            >
            > I'm looking to buy my first kite, for kitesurfing. I'm 52 years old
            and
            like the look of twinskin/ram air kites, for example Peter Lynn Bomba.
            90%
            of the kites flown in my area are inflatables. Why is this? What's
            wrong
            with twinskins? Am I missing something vital in the reading/research
            I've
            been doing before I buy my first kite?
            >
            > I seem to read that twinskins are more robust, easy to fly for
            beginners.
            If this is the case, why aren't there more of them?
            >
            > Looking forward to your helpful advice....
            >
            > Cheers
            > Graeme
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            > If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
            > http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
            > to the most frequently asked questions.
            >
            > === to unsubscribe, please send an email to
            kitesurf-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ===
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >




            If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
            http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
            to the most frequently asked questions.

            === to unsubscribe, please send an email to
            kitesurf-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ===
            Yahoo! Groups Links
          • Brad Fairchild
            You may want to join the arcuser group if you have any questions that s a good place to ask. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcusers I fly Peter Lynn but most
            Message 5 of 12 , Jan 24, 2005
              You may want to join the arcuser group if you have any questions
              that's a good place to ask.

              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcusers

              I fly Peter Lynn but most my kite biddies fly all kinds. One buddy
              got a couple bomba to learn on. So far we have not had many chances
              to get out and teach him. Just some light wind flying and body
              dragging. The Bomba seems to be a pretty stable easy to fly and
              launch, etc...

              No matter what kite you go with they all have there advantages. You
              get use to what your around. LEI are definitely more popular.

              I'll probably get kicked off this groupd for gining you the link the
              arcusers - we'll see.


              --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "Marina Kitto" <kitto2@b...> wrote:
              > Hi all
              >
              > I'm looking to buy my first kite, for kitesurfing. I'm 52 years
              old and like the look of twinskin/ram air kites, for example Peter
              Lynn Bomba. 90% of the kites flown in my area are inflatables. Why
              is this? What's wrong with twinskins? Am I missing something vital
              in the reading/research I've been doing before I buy my first kite?
              >
              > I seem to read that twinskins are more robust, easy to fly for
              beginners. If this is the case, why aren't there more of them?
              >
              > Looking forward to your helpful advice....
              >
              > Cheers
              > Graeme
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • suntrax
              Hey Mark I did say I was biased!! but was also empathising with the vintage..... Not wanting to go into too much detail at the time, my point about Flexifoil
              Message 6 of 12 , Jan 24, 2005
                Hey Mark

                I did say I was biased!! but was also empathising with the vintage.....

                Not wanting to go into too much detail at the time, my point about Flexifoil
                is that they are a company who have been making ram air kites for a long
                time and after trying unsuccessfully to market ram air kites for
                kitesurfing they went back to the drawing board and developed an inflatable
                kite range for that purpose - surely a company with so much experience with
                ram airs would have stayed with that style if they believed it to be the
                right thing.

                We also have a (new model) demo Flysurfer Ectsacy in the store, but apart
                from Steve my main team rider (who is also a paraglider) I can't get people
                to try it. Having flown it myself I find it too unpredictable to inspire
                confidence - but maybe I am too old........... the bar, depower and leash
                system is top drawer.

                If Graeme lived in Cape Town we would already have him riding a Boxer :-)

                Best regards

                Brian

                (========o]></

                ./`\/````````\-/\.....
                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                Brian Wilson
                Suntrax
                Tel/fax 27 (0)21 5560044
                cell; 0824656696
                13 Bayside Centre
                Tableview
                Cape Town
                www.suntrax.co.za
                info@...
                Mon - Fri 9am-7pm
                Sat 9am-5pm
                Sun 9.30am- 2.00pm

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Mark Pronk" <mpronk@...>
                To: <kitesurf@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 5:37 PM
                Subject: RE: [ksurf] Twinskins


                >
                > Brian, Greame,
                >
                > My idea's on inflateables / ram-airs are a bit different. There ARE more
                > then a few schools that teach using Ram-Airs. I'd say the odds are a bit
                > like the odds of people buying Ram-Air kites. Most people choose the
                > obvious choice. Buy Nike trainers, since everybody has them. If you get
                > my point. Modern Ram-Airs offer high stability, high relaunch
                > probability (havent drowned my kites for a single time without being
                > able to relaunch), safety systems that are really above standard, etc.
                >
                > It's not surprising Flexifoil doesn't recommend any of their ram-airs
                > for kitesurfing, simply because all of the Flexifoil ram-air kites are
                > open celled (and i think you as a kite-vendor should know that Brian).
                > But if you'd check out the Flysurfer.de or Peter Lynn Kiteboarding
                > brochure for instance you'd see that they recommend ALL but a few models
                > for water use! Flysurfer.de and Peter Lynn Kiteboarding produce closed
                > cell kites for water use.
                >
                > Open celled kites aren't for water use! Period!
                >
                > Nevertheless there's plenty of Ram-Air kites around that are just as
                > stable as inflateables. Not in all conditions (say 35+ knots, since
                > tubes offer rigidity trough the inflated leading edge tube) but most
                > certainly in more then 95% of the conditions you'd come across...
                >
                > Personally i'd highly recommend you'd try ANY kite you'd find
                > interesting (which includes a Naish Boxer too, Brian would be glad to
                > demo you one, since he's Naish dealer!) before you make the purchase.
                >
                > Of course this is just my 2 cents.
                >
                > _________________
                > Have fun!
                > Mark
                >
                >
                > Happy kiting, whatever you fly!
                > foilzone.com foils.nl
                >
                >
                > Foilzone.com
                > The Hague
                > The Netherlands
              • Mark Pronk
                Yoooo Brian! Not saying you didn t say u were biased, but emphasizing for Graeme that it was biased. (although your signature could ve given that away
                Message 7 of 12 , Jan 24, 2005
                  Yoooo Brian!

                  Not saying you didn't say u were biased, but emphasizing for Graeme that
                  it was biased. (although your signature could 've given that away
                  easily.)

                  I agree with u on the Flexi story... Just think they made that choice
                  with another thing in mind then "believing it's the right thing". Money!
                  Turnover counts! You must be aware of that being shop owner. If they
                  build a kite for kitesurfing and sell it only twice, then it's bad
                  business.

                  Anyways, i'm happy Steve flies the kite.. Maybe he could give ya some
                  lessons on it so you can become somewhat more inspired... This surely
                  would increase chances of anyone becoming inspired enough to try it. I
                  wouldn't try something on which the salesman wasn't too enthousiastic
                  either! But, errr... Maybe I'm too old! ;-)

                  Next time i'm @ the Cape i'd be glad to drop in @ yours and shake hands
                  Brian! U live @ a great spot! Fell in love with RSA when i visited in
                  1999 and did the grand tour from Joburg to Durban, then up to St. Lucia
                  (what a LUVLY spot that is!!!!), then across the Krugerpark to the
                  "other side", from there down to Cape Town and back to Joburg.

                  @ all of you group people: CHECK OUT South Africa!!!! It's great! And if
                  you pass by Cape Town, get urself a cuppa coffee @ Brian's! ;-)

                  (and maybe finally try that Boxer since i never flew one!)

                  _________________
                  Have fun!
                  Mark


                  Happy kiting, whatever you fly!
                  foilzone.com foils.nl


                  Foilzone.com
                  The Hague
                  The Netherlands

                  M: info@...


                  All we do is foilkites!


                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: suntrax [mailto:brian@...]
                  Sent: maandag 24 januari 2005 17:30
                  To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [ksurf] Twinskins


                  Hey Mark

                  I did say I was biased!! but was also empathising with the vintage.....

                  Not wanting to go into too much detail at the time, my point about
                  Flexifoil is that they are a company who have been making ram air kites
                  for a long time and after trying unsuccessfully to market ram air kites
                  for kitesurfing they went back to the drawing board and developed an
                  inflatable kite range for that purpose - surely a company with so much
                  experience with ram airs would have stayed with that style if they
                  believed it to be the right thing.

                  We also have a (new model) demo Flysurfer Ectsacy in the store, but
                  apart from Steve my main team rider (who is also a paraglider) I can't
                  get people to try it. Having flown it myself I find it too unpredictable
                  to inspire confidence - but maybe I am too old........... the bar,
                  depower and leash system is top drawer.

                  If Graeme lived in Cape Town we would already have him riding a Boxer
                  :-)

                  Best regards

                  Brian

                  (========o]></

                  ./`\/````````\-/\.....
                  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                  Brian Wilson
                  Suntrax
                  Tel/fax 27 (0)21 5560044
                  cell; 0824656696
                  13 Bayside Centre
                  Tableview
                  Cape Town
                  www.suntrax.co.za
                  info@...
                  Mon - Fri 9am-7pm
                  Sat 9am-5pm
                  Sun 9.30am- 2.00pm

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Mark Pronk" <mpronk@...>
                  To: <kitesurf@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 5:37 PM
                  Subject: RE: [ksurf] Twinskins


                  >
                  > Brian, Greame,
                  >
                  > My idea's on inflateables / ram-airs are a bit different. There ARE
                  more
                  > then a few schools that teach using Ram-Airs. I'd say the odds are a
                  bit
                  > like the odds of people buying Ram-Air kites. Most people choose the
                  > obvious choice. Buy Nike trainers, since everybody has them. If you
                  get
                  > my point. Modern Ram-Airs offer high stability, high relaunch
                  > probability (havent drowned my kites for a single time without being
                  > able to relaunch), safety systems that are really above standard, etc.
                  >
                  > It's not surprising Flexifoil doesn't recommend any of their ram-airs
                  > for kitesurfing, simply because all of the Flexifoil ram-air kites are
                  > open celled (and i think you as a kite-vendor should know that Brian).
                  > But if you'd check out the Flysurfer.de or Peter Lynn Kiteboarding
                  > brochure for instance you'd see that they recommend ALL but a few
                  models
                  > for water use! Flysurfer.de and Peter Lynn Kiteboarding produce closed
                  > cell kites for water use.
                  >
                  > Open celled kites aren't for water use! Period!
                  >
                  > Nevertheless there's plenty of Ram-Air kites around that are just as
                  > stable as inflateables. Not in all conditions (say 35+ knots, since
                  > tubes offer rigidity trough the inflated leading edge tube) but most
                  > certainly in more then 95% of the conditions you'd come across...
                  >
                  > Personally i'd highly recommend you'd try ANY kite you'd find
                  > interesting (which includes a Naish Boxer too, Brian would be glad to
                  > demo you one, since he's Naish dealer!) before you make the purchase.
                  >
                  > Of course this is just my 2 cents.
                  >
                  > _________________
                  > Have fun!
                  > Mark
                  >
                  >
                  > Happy kiting, whatever you fly!
                  > foilzone.com foils.nl
                  >
                  >
                  > Foilzone.com
                  > The Hague
                  > The Netherlands




                  If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
                  http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
                  to the most frequently asked questions.

                  === to unsubscribe, please send an email to
                  kitesurf-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ===
                  Yahoo! Groups Links
                • pluvious2002
                  you re right to be intrigued by the peter lynn kites. they re great. i love them. when just starting out a few years back, i, too, was interested in the PL
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jan 24, 2005
                    you're right to be intrigued by the peter lynn kites. they're great. i
                    love them.

                    when just starting out a few years back, i, too, was interested in the
                    PL simplicity, no bridle, easy to launch and land alone, etc. i was
                    also very impressed by the passion and dedication of other arc fliers,
                    many of whom were posting on kiteforum at the time (most have since
                    moved to arcusers) so i took a flyer and bought a brand new 1120. i
                    haven't looked back since.

                    all of the arcs are very stable, excellent kites to learn on. the
                    bomba, in particular, is optimised for relaunch and learning. i just
                    saw a quiver of used bombas for sale on arcusers...i think you could
                    get a used bomba for about $400. pretty good...

                    be careful and be sure and get some lessons, as kitesurfing can be
                    quite dangerous. wear a kite leash with a tested quick release and
                    releasable chicken loop.
                  • Anne Gasc
                    When you learn you need the easiest, safest kite you can find... You should check on ikite.com, free classifieds and find an affordable old kite (you re going
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jan 24, 2005
                      When you learn you need the easiest, safest kite you can find...
                      You should check on ikite.com, free classifieds and find an affordable old kite (you're going to ruin it within a few months anyway) and you'll see that they are ALL inflatable ones.
                      Foils could be fun but really why don't you take the experience from others instead of learning teh hard way?...
                      Naish kite are the ones I use and after trying cheaper ones (Best, EH, RRD etc...) I come back to a point: Naish & North are the best!
                      Have fun
                      Aloha,
                      Anne


                      suntrax <brian@...> wrote:

                      Hey Mark

                      I did say I was biased!! but was also empathising with the vintage.....

                      Not wanting to go into too much detail at the time, my point about Flexifoil
                      is that they are a company who have been making ram air kites for a long
                      time and after trying unsuccessfully to market ram air kites for
                      kitesurfing they went back to the drawing board and developed an inflatable
                      kite range for that purpose - surely a company with so much experience with
                      ram airs would have stayed with that style if they believed it to be the
                      right thing.

                      We also have a (new model) demo Flysurfer Ectsacy in the store, but apart
                      from Steve my main team rider (who is also a paraglider) I can't get people
                      to try it. Having flown it myself I find it too unpredictable to inspire
                      confidence - but maybe I am too old........... the bar, depower and leash
                      system is top drawer.

                      If Graeme lived in Cape Town we would already have him riding a Boxer :-)

                      Best regards

                      Brian

                      (========o]>
                      ./`\/````````\-/\.....
                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                      Brian Wilson
                      Suntrax
                      Tel/fax 27 (0)21 5560044
                      cell; 0824656696
                      13 Bayside Centre
                      Tableview
                      Cape Town
                      www.suntrax.co.za
                      info@...
                      Mon - Fri 9am-7pm
                      Sat 9am-5pm
                      Sun 9.30am- 2.00pm

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Mark Pronk"
                      To:
                      Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 5:37 PM
                      Subject: RE: [ksurf] Twinskins


                      >
                      > Brian, Greame,
                      >
                      > My idea's on inflateables / ram-airs are a bit different. There ARE more
                      > then a few schools that teach using Ram-Airs. I'd say the odds are a bit
                      > like the odds of people buying Ram-Air kites. Most people choose the
                      > obvious choice. Buy Nike trainers, since everybody has them. If you get
                      > my point. Modern Ram-Airs offer high stability, high relaunch
                      > probability (havent drowned my kites for a single time without being
                      > able to relaunch), safety systems that are really above standard, etc.
                      >
                      > It's not surprising Flexifoil doesn't recommend any of their ram-airs
                      > for kitesurfing, simply because all of the Flexifoil ram-air kites are
                      > open celled (and i think you as a kite-vendor should know that Brian).
                      > But if you'd check out the Flysurfer.de or Peter Lynn Kiteboarding
                      > brochure for instance you'd see that they recommend ALL but a few models
                      > for water use! Flysurfer.de and Peter Lynn Kiteboarding produce closed
                      > cell kites for water use.
                      >
                      > Open celled kites aren't for water use! Period!
                      >
                      > Nevertheless there's plenty of Ram-Air kites around that are just as
                      > stable as inflateables. Not in all conditions (say 35+ knots, since
                      > tubes offer rigidity trough the inflated leading edge tube) but most
                      > certainly in more then 95% of the conditions you'd come across...
                      >
                      > Personally i'd highly recommend you'd try ANY kite you'd find
                      > interesting (which includes a Naish Boxer too, Brian would be glad to
                      > demo you one, since he's Naish dealer!) before you make the purchase.
                      >
                      > Of course this is just my 2 cents.
                      >
                      > _________________
                      > Have fun!
                      > Mark
                      >
                      >
                      > Happy kiting, whatever you fly!
                      > foilzone.com foils.nl
                      >
                      >
                      > Foilzone.com
                      > The Hague
                      > The Netherlands




                      If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
                      http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
                      to the most frequently asked questions.

                      === to unsubscribe, please send an email to kitesurf-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ===
                      Yahoo! Groups Links









                      ---------------------------------
                      Do you Yahoo!?
                      Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • suntrax
                      Now wasn t that a nice informative, good natured thread - reminds me of the good old days on this group before a certain Australian joined the group :-) Best
                      Message 10 of 12 , Jan 25, 2005
                        Now wasn't that a nice informative, good natured thread - reminds me of the
                        good old days on this group before a certain Australian joined the group :-)


                        Best regards

                        Brian

                        (========o]></

                        ./`\/````````\-/\.....
                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                        Brian Wilson
                        Suntrax
                        Tel/fax 27 (0)21 5560044
                        cell; 0824656696
                        13 Bayside Centre
                        Tableview
                        Cape Town
                        www.suntrax.co.za
                        info@...
                        Mon - Fri 9am-7pm
                        Sat 9am-5pm
                        Sun 9.30am- 2.00pm

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Anne Gasc" <annelabaroudeuse@...>
                        To: <kitesurf@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 11:28 PM
                        Subject: Re: [ksurf] Twinskins


                        >
                        > When you learn you need the easiest, safest kite you can find...
                        > You should check on ikite.com, free classifieds and find an affordable old
                        kite (you're going to ruin it within a few months anyway) and you'll see
                        that they are ALL inflatable ones.
                        > Foils could be fun but really why don't you take the experience from
                        others instead of learning teh hard way?...
                        > Naish kite are the ones I use and after trying cheaper ones (Best, EH, RRD
                        etc...) I come back to a point: Naish & North are the best!
                        > Have fun
                        > Aloha,
                        > Anne
                        >
                        >
                        > suntrax <brian@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hey Mark
                        >
                        > I did say I was biased!! but was also empathising with the vintage.....
                        >
                        > Not wanting to go into too much detail at the time, my point about
                        Flexifoil
                        > is that they are a company who have been making ram air kites for a long
                        > time and after trying unsuccessfully to market ram air kites for
                        > kitesurfing they went back to the drawing board and developed an
                        inflatable
                        > kite range for that purpose - surely a company with so much experience
                        with
                        > ram airs would have stayed with that style if they believed it to be the
                        > right thing.
                        >
                        > We also have a (new model) demo Flysurfer Ectsacy in the store, but apart
                        > from Steve my main team rider (who is also a paraglider) I can't get
                        people
                        > to try it. Having flown it myself I find it too unpredictable to inspire
                        > confidence - but maybe I am too old........... the bar, depower and leash
                        > system is top drawer.
                        >
                        > If Graeme lived in Cape Town we would already have him riding a Boxer :-)
                        >
                        > Best regards
                        >
                        > Brian
                        >
                        > (========o]>
                        > ./`\/````````\-/\.....
                        > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                        >
                        > Brian Wilson
                        > Suntrax
                        > Tel/fax 27 (0)21 5560044
                        > cell; 0824656696
                        > 13 Bayside Centre
                        > Tableview
                        > Cape Town
                        > www.suntrax.co.za
                        > info@...
                        > Mon - Fri 9am-7pm
                        > Sat 9am-5pm
                        > Sun 9.30am- 2.00pm
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: "Mark Pronk"
                        > To:
                        > Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 5:37 PM
                        > Subject: RE: [ksurf] Twinskins
                        >
                        >
                        > >
                        > > Brian, Greame,
                        > >
                        > > My idea's on inflateables / ram-airs are a bit different. There ARE more
                        > > then a few schools that teach using Ram-Airs. I'd say the odds are a bit
                        > > like the odds of people buying Ram-Air kites. Most people choose the
                        > > obvious choice. Buy Nike trainers, since everybody has them. If you get
                        > > my point. Modern Ram-Airs offer high stability, high relaunch
                        > > probability (havent drowned my kites for a single time without being
                        > > able to relaunch), safety systems that are really above standard, etc.
                        > >
                        > > It's not surprising Flexifoil doesn't recommend any of their ram-airs
                        > > for kitesurfing, simply because all of the Flexifoil ram-air kites are
                        > > open celled (and i think you as a kite-vendor should know that Brian).
                        > > But if you'd check out the Flysurfer.de or Peter Lynn Kiteboarding
                        > > brochure for instance you'd see that they recommend ALL but a few models
                        > > for water use! Flysurfer.de and Peter Lynn Kiteboarding produce closed
                        > > cell kites for water use.
                        > >
                        > > Open celled kites aren't for water use! Period!
                        > >
                        > > Nevertheless there's plenty of Ram-Air kites around that are just as
                        > > stable as inflateables. Not in all conditions (say 35+ knots, since
                        > > tubes offer rigidity trough the inflated leading edge tube) but most
                        > > certainly in more then 95% of the conditions you'd come across...
                        > >
                        > > Personally i'd highly recommend you'd try ANY kite you'd find
                        > > interesting (which includes a Naish Boxer too, Brian would be glad to
                        > > demo you one, since he's Naish dealer!) before you make the purchase.
                        > >
                        > > Of course this is just my 2 cents.
                        > >
                        > > _________________
                        > > Have fun!
                        > > Mark
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Happy kiting, whatever you fly!
                        > > foilzone.com foils.nl
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Foilzone.com
                        > > The Hague
                        > > The Netherlands
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
                        > http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
                        > to the most frequently asked questions.
                        >
                        > === to unsubscribe, please send an email to
                        kitesurf-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ===
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ---------------------------------
                        > Do you Yahoo!?
                        > Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
                        > http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
                        > to the most frequently asked questions.
                        >
                        > === to unsubscribe, please send an email to
                        kitesurf-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ===
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Mark Pronk
                        Giggle..... WHAHAHAHAHA.... PSML... ROFL.... :P:P:P AMEN Brian! _________________ Have fun! Mark Happy kiting, whatever you fly! foilzone.com
                        Message 11 of 12 , Jan 25, 2005
                          Giggle.....

                          WHAHAHAHAHA.... PSML... ROFL.... :P:P:P

                          AMEN Brian!

                          _________________
                          Have fun!
                          Mark


                          Happy kiting, whatever you fly!
                          foilzone.com foils.nl


                          Foilzone.com
                          The Hague
                          The Netherlands

                          M: info@...


                          All we do is foilkites!



                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: suntrax [mailto:brian@...]
                          Sent: dinsdag 25 januari 2005 14:29
                          To: kitesurf@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [ksurf] Twinskins


                          Now wasn't that a nice informative, good natured thread - reminds me of
                          the good old days on this group before a certain Australian joined the
                          group :-)


                          Best regards

                          Brian

                          (========o]></

                          ./`\/````````\-/\.....
                          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                          Brian Wilson
                          Suntrax
                          Tel/fax 27 (0)21 5560044
                          cell; 0824656696
                          13 Bayside Centre
                          Tableview
                          Cape Town
                          www.suntrax.co.za
                          info@...
                          Mon - Fri 9am-7pm
                          Sat 9am-5pm
                          Sun 9.30am- 2.00pm

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Anne Gasc" <annelabaroudeuse@...>
                          To: <kitesurf@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 11:28 PM
                          Subject: Re: [ksurf] Twinskins


                          >
                          > When you learn you need the easiest, safest kite you can find...
                          > You should check on ikite.com, free classifieds and find an affordable
                          old
                          kite (you're going to ruin it within a few months anyway) and you'll see
                          that they are ALL inflatable ones.
                          > Foils could be fun but really why don't you take the experience from
                          others instead of learning teh hard way?...
                          > Naish kite are the ones I use and after trying cheaper ones (Best, EH,
                          RRD
                          etc...) I come back to a point: Naish & North are the best!
                          > Have fun
                          > Aloha,
                          > Anne
                          >
                          >
                          > suntrax <brian@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hey Mark
                          >
                          > I did say I was biased!! but was also empathising with the
                          vintage.....
                          >
                          > Not wanting to go into too much detail at the time, my point about
                          Flexifoil
                          > is that they are a company who have been making ram air kites for a
                          long
                          > time and after trying unsuccessfully to market ram air kites for
                          > kitesurfing they went back to the drawing board and developed an
                          inflatable
                          > kite range for that purpose - surely a company with so much experience
                          with
                          > ram airs would have stayed with that style if they believed it to be
                          the
                          > right thing.
                          >
                          > We also have a (new model) demo Flysurfer Ectsacy in the store, but
                          apart
                          > from Steve my main team rider (who is also a paraglider) I can't get
                          people
                          > to try it. Having flown it myself I find it too unpredictable to
                          inspire
                          > confidence - but maybe I am too old........... the bar, depower and
                          leash
                          > system is top drawer.
                          >
                          > If Graeme lived in Cape Town we would already have him riding a Boxer
                          :-)
                          >
                          > Best regards
                          >
                          > Brian
                          >
                          > (========o]>
                          > ./`\/````````\-/\.....
                          > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                          >
                          > Brian Wilson
                          > Suntrax
                          > Tel/fax 27 (0)21 5560044
                          > cell; 0824656696
                          > 13 Bayside Centre
                          > Tableview
                          > Cape Town
                          > www.suntrax.co.za
                          > info@...
                          > Mon - Fri 9am-7pm
                          > Sat 9am-5pm
                          > Sun 9.30am- 2.00pm
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: "Mark Pronk"
                          > To:
                          > Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 5:37 PM
                          > Subject: RE: [ksurf] Twinskins
                          >
                          >
                          > >
                          > > Brian, Greame,
                          > >
                          > > My idea's on inflateables / ram-airs are a bit different. There ARE
                          more
                          > > then a few schools that teach using Ram-Airs. I'd say the odds are a
                          bit
                          > > like the odds of people buying Ram-Air kites. Most people choose the
                          > > obvious choice. Buy Nike trainers, since everybody has them. If you
                          get
                          > > my point. Modern Ram-Airs offer high stability, high relaunch
                          > > probability (havent drowned my kites for a single time without being
                          > > able to relaunch), safety systems that are really above standard,
                          etc.
                          > >
                          > > It's not surprising Flexifoil doesn't recommend any of their
                          ram-airs
                          > > for kitesurfing, simply because all of the Flexifoil ram-air kites
                          are
                          > > open celled (and i think you as a kite-vendor should know that
                          Brian).
                          > > But if you'd check out the Flysurfer.de or Peter Lynn Kiteboarding
                          > > brochure for instance you'd see that they recommend ALL but a few
                          models
                          > > for water use! Flysurfer.de and Peter Lynn Kiteboarding produce
                          closed
                          > > cell kites for water use.
                          > >
                          > > Open celled kites aren't for water use! Period!
                          > >
                          > > Nevertheless there's plenty of Ram-Air kites around that are just as
                          > > stable as inflateables. Not in all conditions (say 35+ knots, since
                          > > tubes offer rigidity trough the inflated leading edge tube) but most
                          > > certainly in more then 95% of the conditions you'd come across...
                          > >
                          > > Personally i'd highly recommend you'd try ANY kite you'd find
                          > > interesting (which includes a Naish Boxer too, Brian would be glad
                          to
                          > > demo you one, since he's Naish dealer!) before you make the
                          purchase.
                          > >
                          > > Of course this is just my 2 cents.
                          > >
                          > > _________________
                          > > Have fun!
                          > > Mark
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Happy kiting, whatever you fly!
                          > > foilzone.com foils.nl
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Foilzone.com
                          > > The Hague
                          > > The Netherlands
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
                          > http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
                          > to the most frequently asked questions.
                          >
                          > === to unsubscribe, please send an email to
                          kitesurf-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ===
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ---------------------------------
                          > Do you Yahoo!?
                          > Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
                          > http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
                          > to the most frequently asked questions.
                          >
                          > === to unsubscribe, please send an email to
                          kitesurf-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ===
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >




                          If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
                          http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the answers
                          to the most frequently asked questions.

                          === to unsubscribe, please send an email to
                          kitesurf-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ===
                          Yahoo! Groups Links
                        • theflyingtinman
                          Graeme, The bias toward inflatables is probably due in large part to a few things. Since LEIs are already in the majority there is no doubt an image thing
                          Message 12 of 12 , Feb 1, 2005
                            Graeme,

                            The bias toward inflatables is probably due in large part
                            to a few things. Since LEIs are already in the majority there
                            is no doubt an "image" thing that keeps many riders away from
                            the less popular ram-airs. LEI domination also fuels itself by ensuring that training is, in most areas, only available on
                            LEIs. And there is also a perception among some riders that
                            having a big inflatable tube out there on the ocean makes for
                            a better chance of rescue or self-rescue if the kite goes down
                            and can't relaunch.

                            I can't speak definitively about LEIs as I am PLK rider and
                            own only one LEI--a 20m Yarga that I won in a competition and
                            have not yet ridden on water. I won't claim better performance
                            on my PLKs in good conditions (mabe the Venoms will close that perceived gap) but from experience I am often first out and
                            last in at my local site when conditions are marginal and my
                            Arcs will stay aloft when almost all the LEIs around me are
                            on the water due to gustiness or lulls in the wind.

                            It is true that a downed LEI will sit on the water until the
                            wind is relaunchable but PLKs will a) generally relaunch very
                            quickly and easily when down and b) go down so rarely in the
                            hands of an experienced user that their "floatability" is
                            realy not an issue. And in any case on calm water I once had
                            a S-Arc 1120 down in a 45 minute lull and still relaunched
                            it when the wind came up. Had to drain a bit of water before
                            it would fly right but it did eventually get me up and riding
                            instead of swimming.

                            The easy self-launch and landing of PLKs makes also them ideal
                            for solo sessions (which I seem do quite often)

                            I started on standard Arcs four or five years ago and stuck
                            with PLKs throughout. I will probably trade my Guerillas
                            for Venoms this year.

                            Steve T




                            --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "Marina Kitto" <kitto2@b...> wrote:
                            > Hi all
                            >
                            > I'm looking to buy my first kite, for kitesurfing. I'm 52 years old and like the look of twinskin/ram air kites, for example Peter Lynn Bomba. 90% of the kites flown in my area are inflatables. Why is this? What's wrong with twinskins? Am I missing something vital in the reading/research I've been doing before I buy my first kite?
                            >
                            > I seem to read that twinskins are more robust, easy to fly for beginners. If this is the case, why aren't there more of them?
                            >
                            > Looking forward to your helpful advice....
                            >
                            > Cheers
                            > Graeme
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.