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How depowered is depowered?

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  • Hung Vu
    After having read Laurence s accident a few days ago, I started to ponder why Laurence got in to such accident even thought his kite was depowered on a leash
    Message 1 of 8 , Dec 22, 2004
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      After having read Laurence's accident a few days ago, I started to
      ponder why Laurence got in to such accident even thought his kite was
      depowered on a leash (as according to some sources).

      I was stucked in a winter storm a few years ago in 80 - 100 km/hr wind
      (you can see a white wall moving toward you) and depowered my 6m foil
      just before the storm hit. Even so, I was dragged slowly by the kite
      downwind. I was fully detached from the kite but hang on to the leash
      line as I did not want to loose my kite and may create problems for
      other people. I was still in that "fighting with the kite position"
      until another kiter came and folded the kite for me.

      So a depowered kite still has tons of power and apparently has killed
      Laurence.

      For your own safety, make sure that you have a quick release system that
      can release yourself from the kite completely.

      Of course, it's best to fold your kite or use a much smaller kite before
      the storm hit...

      Hung.
    • Pete
      Scary how similar this is - an account of a similar, but thankfully less terminal, experience on the same day in Australia follows. Those who saw it will
      Message 2 of 8 , Dec 22, 2004
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        Scary how similar this is - an account of a similar, but thankfully
        less terminal, experience on the same day in Australia follows.
        Those who saw it will probably laugh - it's like the fishing story
        that gets bigger with every telling, but I can only tell from my
        perspective, and from where I was it was pretty scary! Not at the
        time, I went out windsurfing immediately afterwards and didn't think
        much of it, but afterwards a few thoughts about what might have been
        have crossed my mind.

        The wind had been cross-onshore and dropping steadily throughout the
        day, and no big blast was forecast. No obvious change in cloud
        formations. In hindsight the warning sign I missed was some large
        ships at anchor on the horizon swinging around by 20 or 30 degrees
        (more onshore). Because it'd been 30 knots from the same direction
        the previous night we still had a bit of chop running, so I guess the
        wind line wasn't as pronounced as it could've been. In local terms
        it was "funny" weather - full of promise, but not really delivering,
        so lots of frustrated people.

        The gusts came through like someone flicked a switch - one moment I
        was dogging back out to get another sloppy little wave on the reef,
        looking for any wind I could get in steadily dropping ~10-12 knots,
        the next I was having an out of bowel experience in what I reckon
        must've been getting on for a 35 knot gust. First time I've had a
        serious lofting on an inflatable kite. I can't imagine what a
        100+kmh gust would be like!

        Kite wasn't that high, parked at maybe 2-3 o'clock, in the fixed
        loop, I didn't see the wind coming. Went up pretty high on the first
        gust, came back down a bit, copped another gust and went up again.
        After riding it out for a bit the beach was getting closer and I was
        still getting higher, so ditched the board, pulled the trim loop in,
        depowered as much as I could while slowly steering the kite down the
        side until I started losing height. Hit the water going pretty quick,
        supermanned, pulled the pin and got dragged in by the kite on the
        leash. Dunno how high or long, but it felt big enough considering it
        was involuntary, and apart from the dip in the middle never came
        close to swinging under the kite, just accelerated all the way.
        Briefly considered bailing, but could see the reef below and figured
        I'd break my legs. I've never felt lift like it on an intentional
        jump, it was as if the kite caught a passing plane. A few of the boys
        on the beach were having a good chuckle (in the way people do when
        they're really glad it wasn't them), and I was bloody glad I was out
        the back when it hit, not on the beach.

        Two things of note: One, I never saw it coming on the water, don't
        know why, but it caught me completely by surprise. I was actually
        looking upwind when the first gust hit me, and there was no decent
        darkies on the surface within a couple of hundred meters. I may be a
        crap kiter, but I've been sailing for 20 odd years and kiting
        since '97, and have never encountered anything like that. Two, once
        the water disappeared I had the usual thoughts of "oh sh*t" etc., but
        after the initial shock had heaps of time to think about and do
        stuff - fiddle with the trim strap, straighten out my leash and make
        sure I had the releases where I wanted them, get rid of the board
        etc. If the beach had been nearer, or I'd have been getting dragged
        on the surface at high speed, I'm sure I'd have been less sensible,
        and expect the outcome would've been quite different.

        Last thing, relevant to Hung's post, is that the kite pulled hard on
        the leash. I braced against some submerged rocks while it flapped
        around for a while and the initial gusts passed, but may have had to
        release the leash and let the kite go otherwise.

        Anyway, thought you might get something out of it, and backs up the
        theory that it's not "if", it's "when". Be picky about the
        conditions you ride in, and stay away from the shore!

        --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, Hung Vu <hungvu2000@r...> wrote:
        > After having read Laurence's accident a few days ago, I started to
        > ponder why Laurence got in to such accident even thought his kite
        was
        > depowered on a leash (as according to some sources).
        >
        > I was stucked in a winter storm a few years ago in 80 - 100 km/hr
        wind
        > (you can see a white wall moving toward you) and depowered my 6m
        foil
        > just before the storm hit. Even so, I was dragged slowly by the
        kite
        > downwind. I was fully detached from the kite but hang on to the
        leash
        > line as I did not want to loose my kite and may create problems for
        > other people. I was still in that "fighting with the kite
        position"
        > until another kiter came and folded the kite for me.
        >
        > So a depowered kite still has tons of power and apparently has
        killed
        > Laurence.
        >
        > For your own safety, make sure that you have a quick release system
        that
        > can release yourself from the kite completely.
        >
        > Of course, it's best to fold your kite or use a much smaller kite
        before
        > the storm hit...
        >
        > Hung.
      • woodman_k
        Hung I think the power of some kites in depowered state is quite different. I find on an LEI that the front line is so much lower pull than on a rear line.
        Message 3 of 8 , Dec 24, 2004
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          Hung
          I think the power of some kites in depowered state is quite
          different. I find on an LEI that the front line is so much lower
          pull than on a rear line. Since hearing this very sad event I would
          be concerned about systems like the safety on a recon style kites.
          I have not yet tried a 5th line safety but it might be even better
          than a single front line for leis's. Arcs are very good when on a
          front line too as far as I can tell.
          Be carefull!

          Stan
        • Thierry Dehove
          Hi Stan I have this 5th line since two months and I have two matrix wipika 11 and 16,5 m. Honestly it s really a good stuff for me to launch and relaunch your
          Message 4 of 8 , Dec 25, 2004
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            Hi Stan
            I have this 5th line since two months and I have two
            matrix wipika 11 and 16,5 m. Honestly it's really a
            good stuff for me to launch and relaunch your kite on
            the water, on the sand by yourself... Also you can
            tide this line when you feel too much power on your
            kite !

            take care and happy new year,
            thierry from Anguilla
            http://www.tropical-paradise.net

            --- woodman_k <woodman_k@...> wrote:

            >
            >
            > Hung
            > I think the power of some kites in depowered state
            > is quite
            > different. I find on an LEI that the front line is
            > so much lower
            > pull than on a rear line. Since hearing this very
            > sad event I would
            > be concerned about systems like the safety on a
            > recon style kites.
            > I have not yet tried a 5th line safety but it might
            > be even better
            > than a single front line for leis's. Arcs are very
            > good when on a
            > front line too as far as I can tell.
            > Be carefull!
            >
            > Stan
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
            > http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the
            > answers
            > to the most frequently asked questions.
            >
            > === to unsubscribe, please send an email to
            > kitesurf-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ===
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            > kitesurf-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >



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          • Steve McCormack
            What day was this Peter? Cya and Goodwinds Steve McCormack www.kitepower.com.au ... thankfully ... think ... been ... the ... direction ... the ... terms ...
            Message 5 of 8 , Dec 26, 2004
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              What day was this Peter?

              Cya and
              Goodwinds
              Steve McCormack
              www.kitepower.com.au



              --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "Pete" <terminalveloce_maps@h...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Scary how similar this is - an account of a similar, but
              thankfully
              > less terminal, experience on the same day in Australia follows.
              > Those who saw it will probably laugh - it's like the fishing story
              > that gets bigger with every telling, but I can only tell from my
              > perspective, and from where I was it was pretty scary! Not at the
              > time, I went out windsurfing immediately afterwards and didn't
              think
              > much of it, but afterwards a few thoughts about what might have
              been
              > have crossed my mind.
              >
              > The wind had been cross-onshore and dropping steadily throughout
              the
              > day, and no big blast was forecast. No obvious change in cloud
              > formations. In hindsight the warning sign I missed was some large
              > ships at anchor on the horizon swinging around by 20 or 30 degrees
              > (more onshore). Because it'd been 30 knots from the same
              direction
              > the previous night we still had a bit of chop running, so I guess
              the
              > wind line wasn't as pronounced as it could've been. In local
              terms
              > it was "funny" weather - full of promise, but not really
              delivering,
              > so lots of frustrated people.
              >
              > The gusts came through like someone flicked a switch - one moment
              I
              > was dogging back out to get another sloppy little wave on the
              reef,
              > looking for any wind I could get in steadily dropping ~10-12
              knots,
              > the next I was having an out of bowel experience in what I reckon
              > must've been getting on for a 35 knot gust. First time I've had a
              > serious lofting on an inflatable kite. I can't imagine what a
              > 100+kmh gust would be like!
              >
              > Kite wasn't that high, parked at maybe 2-3 o'clock, in the fixed
              > loop, I didn't see the wind coming. Went up pretty high on the
              first
              > gust, came back down a bit, copped another gust and went up again.
              > After riding it out for a bit the beach was getting closer and I
              was
              > still getting higher, so ditched the board, pulled the trim loop
              in,
              > depowered as much as I could while slowly steering the kite down
              the
              > side until I started losing height. Hit the water going pretty
              quick,
              > supermanned, pulled the pin and got dragged in by the kite on the
              > leash. Dunno how high or long, but it felt big enough considering
              it
              > was involuntary, and apart from the dip in the middle never came
              > close to swinging under the kite, just accelerated all the way.
              > Briefly considered bailing, but could see the reef below and
              figured
              > I'd break my legs. I've never felt lift like it on an intentional
              > jump, it was as if the kite caught a passing plane. A few of the
              boys
              > on the beach were having a good chuckle (in the way people do when
              > they're really glad it wasn't them), and I was bloody glad I was
              out
              > the back when it hit, not on the beach.
              >
              > Two things of note: One, I never saw it coming on the water,
              don't
              > know why, but it caught me completely by surprise. I was actually
              > looking upwind when the first gust hit me, and there was no decent
              > darkies on the surface within a couple of hundred meters. I may
              be a
              > crap kiter, but I've been sailing for 20 odd years and kiting
              > since '97, and have never encountered anything like that. Two,
              once
              > the water disappeared I had the usual thoughts of "oh sh*t" etc.,
              but
              > after the initial shock had heaps of time to think about and do
              > stuff - fiddle with the trim strap, straighten out my leash and
              make
              > sure I had the releases where I wanted them, get rid of the board
              > etc. If the beach had been nearer, or I'd have been getting
              dragged
              > on the surface at high speed, I'm sure I'd have been less
              sensible,
              > and expect the outcome would've been quite different.
              >
              > Last thing, relevant to Hung's post, is that the kite pulled hard
              on
              > the leash. I braced against some submerged rocks while it flapped
              > around for a while and the initial gusts passed, but may have had
              to
              > release the leash and let the kite go otherwise.
              >
              > Anyway, thought you might get something out of it, and backs up
              the
              > theory that it's not "if", it's "when". Be picky about the
              > conditions you ride in, and stay away from the shore!
            • azza_lizard
              G day I ve just finished rebuilding (completely) my AirBlast 10 and I modified it to include CLS style LE attachment points... and I m really glad I did. This
              Message 6 of 8 , Dec 30, 2004
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                G'day

                I've just finished rebuilding (completely) my AirBlast 10 and I
                modified it to include CLS style LE attachment points... and I'm
                really glad I did. This system is fantastic!!! Self lauch, self land,
                relauch (even in surf) becomes very easy with almost no power at all!
                Just feed/pull the centre-line.

                I can't recommend this system higher. Retro-fit you kite now.

                Regards to all,
                Azza.


                --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, Thierry Dehove <sakoopsurf@y...> wrote:
                > Hi Stan
                > I have this 5th line since two months and I have two
                > matrix wipika 11 and 16,5 m. Honestly it's really a
                > good stuff for me to launch and relaunch your kite on
                > the water, on the sand by yourself... Also you can
                > tide this line when you feel too much power on your
                > kite !
                >
                > take care and happy new year,
                > thierry from Anguilla
                > http://www.tropical-paradise.net
                >
                > --- woodman_k <woodman_k@y...> wrote:
                >
              • Thierry Dehove
                Hi may i give an advice ? I m riding with this system since 5 months and the only tip i will be able to give you: it s to be careful to your 5th line with your
                Message 7 of 8 , Dec 31, 2004
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                  Hi may i give an advice ? I'm riding with this system
                  since 5 months and the only tip i will be able to give
                  you: it's to be careful to your 5th line with your
                  pull your front line. I mean, this line sometimes can
                  be twist your legs.. by the way, it's the stuff from
                  2005, you will see you can even pley with the power
                  when sometime you have to much : pull it slowy but
                  it's working ! sorry for my bad english, i'm
                  french....

                  enjoy and take care, thierry
                  http://www.tropical-paradise.net
                  --- azza_lizard <azza@...> wrote:

                  >
                  >
                  > G'day
                  >
                  > I've just finished rebuilding (completely) my
                  > AirBlast 10 and I
                  > modified it to include CLS style LE attachment
                  > points... and I'm
                  > really glad I did. This system is fantastic!!! Self
                  > lauch, self land,
                  > relauch (even in surf) becomes very easy with almost
                  > no power at all!
                  > Just feed/pull the centre-line.
                  >
                  > I can't recommend this system higher. Retro-fit you
                  > kite now.
                  >
                  > Regards to all,
                  > Azza.
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, Thierry Dehove
                  > <sakoopsurf@y...> wrote:
                  > > Hi Stan
                  > > I have this 5th line since two months and I have
                  > two
                  > > matrix wipika 11 and 16,5 m. Honestly it's really
                  > a
                  > > good stuff for me to launch and relaunch your kite
                  > on
                  > > the water, on the sand by yourself... Also you can
                  > > tide this line when you feel too much power on
                  > your
                  > > kite !
                  > >
                  > > take care and happy new year,
                  > > thierry from Anguilla
                  > > http://www.tropical-paradise.net
                  > >
                  > > --- woodman_k <woodman_k@y...> wrote:
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > If you are new to kitesurfing, please visit
                  > http://www.KitesurfingSchool.org/faqs.htm for the
                  > answers
                  > to the most frequently asked questions.
                  >
                  > === to unsubscribe, please send an email to
                  > kitesurf-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ===
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  > kitesurf-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >



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                • Pete
                  Hi Steve, 19th December. The Fawkner graph shows the bump. Seems like it was more dramatic in the north of the bay than down the coast. On the subject of
                  Message 8 of 8 , Jan 10, 2005
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                    Hi Steve,
                    19th December. The Fawkner graph shows the bump. Seems like it was
                    more dramatic in the north of the bay than down the coast.

                    On the subject of lofting, Rob busted his arm a few months ago in a
                    thermal lofting in the UK. Quite different to mine - his kite flew
                    way back over his head and dumped him from 20' into about 6" of water
                    with no power at the bar. Wind was flukey, changing around a lot,
                    and he had the kite too high (hindsight's a wonderful thing, eh).
                    Wasn't a lack of kite skills, that's for sure - he's been staving off
                    the boredom learning one-handed kiteloop 180 aerial transitions in
                    his buggy while recovering! Won the freestyle at the X-zone games,
                    jammy so-n-so.
                    cheers,
                    Pete

                    --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "Steve McCormack" <sydney@k...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > What day was this Peter?
                    >
                    > Cya and
                    > Goodwinds
                    > Steve McCormack
                    > www.kitepower.com.au
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In kitesurf@yahoogroups.com, "Pete" <terminalveloce_maps@h...>
                    > wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Scary how similar this is - an account of a similar, but
                    > thankfully
                    > > less terminal, experience on the same day in Australia follows.
                    > > Those who saw it will probably laugh - it's like the fishing
                    story
                    > > that gets bigger with every telling, but I can only tell from my
                    > > perspective, and from where I was it was pretty scary! Not at
                    the
                    > > time, I went out windsurfing immediately afterwards and didn't
                    > think
                    > > much of it, but afterwards a few thoughts about what might have
                    > been
                    > > have crossed my mind.
                    > >
                    > > The wind had been cross-onshore and dropping steadily throughout
                    > the
                    > > day, and no big blast was forecast. No obvious change in cloud
                    > > formations. In hindsight the warning sign I missed was some
                    large
                    > > ships at anchor on the horizon swinging around by 20 or 30
                    degrees
                    > > (more onshore). Because it'd been 30 knots from the same
                    > direction
                    > > the previous night we still had a bit of chop running, so I guess
                    > the
                    > > wind line wasn't as pronounced as it could've been. In local
                    > terms
                    > > it was "funny" weather - full of promise, but not really
                    > delivering,
                    > > so lots of frustrated people.
                    > >
                    > > The gusts came through like someone flicked a switch - one moment
                    > I
                    > > was dogging back out to get another sloppy little wave on the
                    > reef,
                    > > looking for any wind I could get in steadily dropping ~10-12
                    > knots,
                    > > the next I was having an out of bowel experience in what I reckon
                    > > must've been getting on for a 35 knot gust. First time I've had a
                    > > serious lofting on an inflatable kite. I can't imagine what a
                    > > 100+kmh gust would be like!
                    > >
                    > > Kite wasn't that high, parked at maybe 2-3 o'clock, in the fixed
                    > > loop, I didn't see the wind coming. Went up pretty high on the
                    > first
                    > > gust, came back down a bit, copped another gust and went up
                    again.
                    > > After riding it out for a bit the beach was getting closer and I
                    > was
                    > > still getting higher, so ditched the board, pulled the trim loop
                    > in,
                    > > depowered as much as I could while slowly steering the kite down
                    > the
                    > > side until I started losing height. Hit the water going pretty
                    > quick,
                    > > supermanned, pulled the pin and got dragged in by the kite on the
                    > > leash. Dunno how high or long, but it felt big enough considering
                    > it
                    > > was involuntary, and apart from the dip in the middle never came
                    > > close to swinging under the kite, just accelerated all the way.
                    > > Briefly considered bailing, but could see the reef below and
                    > figured
                    > > I'd break my legs. I've never felt lift like it on an intentional
                    > > jump, it was as if the kite caught a passing plane. A few of the
                    > boys
                    > > on the beach were having a good chuckle (in the way people do
                    when
                    > > they're really glad it wasn't them), and I was bloody glad I was
                    > out
                    > > the back when it hit, not on the beach.
                    > >
                    > > Two things of note: One, I never saw it coming on the water,
                    > don't
                    > > know why, but it caught me completely by surprise. I was
                    actually
                    > > looking upwind when the first gust hit me, and there was no
                    decent
                    > > darkies on the surface within a couple of hundred meters. I may
                    > be a
                    > > crap kiter, but I've been sailing for 20 odd years and kiting
                    > > since '97, and have never encountered anything like that. Two,
                    > once
                    > > the water disappeared I had the usual thoughts of "oh sh*t" etc.,
                    > but
                    > > after the initial shock had heaps of time to think about and do
                    > > stuff - fiddle with the trim strap, straighten out my leash and
                    > make
                    > > sure I had the releases where I wanted them, get rid of the board
                    > > etc. If the beach had been nearer, or I'd have been getting
                    > dragged
                    > > on the surface at high speed, I'm sure I'd have been less
                    > sensible,
                    > > and expect the outcome would've been quite different.
                    > >
                    > > Last thing, relevant to Hung's post, is that the kite pulled hard
                    > on
                    > > the leash. I braced against some submerged rocks while it
                    flapped
                    > > around for a while and the initial gusts passed, but may have had
                    > to
                    > > release the leash and let the kite go otherwise.
                    > >
                    > > Anyway, thought you might get something out of it, and backs up
                    > the
                    > > theory that it's not "if", it's "when". Be picky about the
                    > > conditions you ride in, and stay away from the shore!
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