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[ksurf] Re: Quick Release vs Deadman

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  • Pierce Nichols
    ... This sounds like an excellent idea. Why do you think it has to be rigid? Also, are you sure that a metal ring of the approprate size will be strong enough?
    Message 1 of 11 , Nov 1, 1998
      On Sat, 31 Oct 1998, Dave Culp wrote:

      > Taking it a bit further, the wrist line can end in a small metal ring,
      > running free on a "reeled" kiteline. Near the end of the line, a "button"
      > (thickened spot in the line, perhaps a large knot, or bead, or sewn-in
      > overwrap of small thread, varnished or epoxied to make it rigid), small
      > enough to pass through the fairleads on the (altered) flying bar, yet too
      > large to pass through the wrist-strap line ring, will effectively attach
      > the wrist strap to one flying line, yet allow freely reeling the line in
      > and out.

      This sounds like an excellent idea. Why do you think it has to be
      rigid? Also, are you sure that a metal ring of the approprate size will be
      strong enough? I think sleeving a bit of line in the appropriate place,
      then folding it over and sewing it together would do the trick. You might
      need slightly large fairleads, but that's pretty easy.

      > Using this concept relies on the wrist strap *not* coming un-velcro-ed,
      > as happened to Dave. This bothers me a bit as, if completely foolproof,
      > could endanger your arm. Yet it keeps the entire kite attached to the
      > flyer, and is easy to recover--just swim to the bar or pull it to you,
      > after the kite goes in.

      Well, instead of attaching the safety line to your wrist, you
      could clip it to your harness, or possibly even a simple secondary
      harness, like a chest strap, so it still works even if your harness
      breaks. This takes care of the risk of a broken arm and the wrist strap
      coming undone.

      -p

      "There are four boxes that are used in the defense of liberty.
      Soap, Ballot, Jury, and Ammo. Use in that order."

      -Anon

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    • Ian Young
      I m having a little difficulty following some of these descriptions. Can someone post some sketches as JPEG file attachments please. Cheers, Ian WinDesigns
      Message 2 of 11 , Nov 1, 1998
        I'm having a little difficulty following some of these descriptions.

        Can someone post some sketches as JPEG file attachments please.

        Cheers,
        Ian

        WinDesigns Australia:
        9 Oliver St, Scarborough, WA, AUSTRALIA, 6019
        Phone/Fax: +61 8 9245 4657
        Mobile: 0414 716 812
        Email: IanYoung@...
        Webpage: http://www.iinet.net.au/~ianyoung/

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      • Ian Young
        ... When ridge soaring my hang glider on coastal sites I always take a hook knife. Maybe I should take it Kite Ski&Surfing too! Cheers, Ian WinDesigns
        Message 3 of 11 , Nov 1, 1998
          > The un-velcro-ed wrist strap also bothers me (what happens if a boat
          > catches one of the line and drag you along with it?).

          When ridge soaring my hang glider on coastal sites I always take a hook knife.
          Maybe I should take it Kite Ski&Surfing too!

          Cheers,
          Ian

          WinDesigns Australia:
          9 Oliver St, Scarborough, WA, AUSTRALIA, 6019
          Phone/Fax: +61 8 9245 4657
          Mobile: 0414 716 812
          Email: IanYoung@...
          Webpage: http://www.iinet.net.au/~ianyoung/

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        • Dave Culp
          Have a look at commercial fishing set-ups. On any boat using outriggers (salmon, albacore, swordfish; most hobbiest sportfishermen), they use similar systems.
          Message 4 of 11 , Nov 2, 1998
            Have a look at commercial fishing set-ups. On any boat using outriggers
            (salmon, albacore, swordfish; most hobbiest sportfishermen), they use
            similar systems. Generally they use a ring tied into the main line, with
            the line running freely through another ring attached to the outrigger
            pole. The main-line ring is designed to pass through all
            pulleys/fairleads/winches, just not through the (final) smaller ring on
            the outrigger pole line. Using this, the outrigger takes the pull when
            trolling, but the fisherman takes the fish over when fighting it, just by
            reeling in some line.

            >> Taking it a bit further, the wrist line can end in a small metal ring,
            >> running free on a "reeled" kiteline. Near the end of the line, a "button"
            >> (thickened spot in the line, perhaps a large knot, or bead, or sewn-in
            >> overwrap of small thread, varnished or epoxied to make it rigid), small
            >> enough to pass through the fairleads on the (altered) flying bar, yet too
            >> large to pass through the wrist-strap line ring, will effectively attach
            >> the wrist strap to one flying line, yet allow freely reeling the line in
            >> and out.
            >
            > This sounds like an excellent idea. Why do you think it has to be
            >rigid? Also, are you sure that a metal ring of the approprate size will be
            >strong enough? I think sleeving a bit of line in the appropriate place,
            >then folding it over and sewing it together would do the trick. You might
            >need slightly large fairleads, but that's pretty easy.

            --
            Dave Culp Speedsailing dave@... http://www.dcss.org/speedsl
            Kite powered boats, high speed sailing, proas and more. Check it out!


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          • Ian Young
            I don t want anyone to take this the wrong way - I assure you that I want this sport to be as safe as possible. But I think with the number of learners (myself
            Message 5 of 11 , Nov 3, 1998
              I don't want anyone to take this the wrong way - I assure you that I want this
              sport to be as safe as possible.

              But I think with the number of learners (myself included) that are reading these
              postings on quick and deadman releases, that a point is made about the
              importance of commitment, determination and judgement.

              I have been developing a training package for the school I will be starting soon
              and when teaching friends and family I have found that it takes some time for
              people to get used to the power that these kites can generate.

              A common fault I have observed is that until confidence is built through
              practise/ experience, people tend to lack commitment and determination to keep
              control of the kite at all times eg often when a power kite starts to pull hard,
              learners tend to walk toward the kite rather than lean back against the pull -
              obvious to the experienced kite flyer: without tension on the lines you can't
              effectively control the kite!

              I would hate to see people defaulting to releasing a kite pre-maturely rather
              than fighting to regain/ keep control of a kite. Even with all the released
              discussed to date you still have a kite falling or flying with lines trailing
              from it that can still injure people or tangle on stationary or moving objects.
              A kite without tension on the lines (released or otherwise) is still out of
              control!

              The key IMO, is judgement of when to release a kite because there is no chance
              of bringing it back under control.

              Something else that may be worth considering that we use hang gliding when aero
              or vehicle towing is the compulsory use of weak-links (usually 1.2G) in addition
              to a "three ring circus" quick release.

              Cheers,
              Ian

              WinDesigns Australia:
              9 Oliver St, Scarborough, WA, AUSTRALIA, 6019
              Phone/Fax: +61 8 9245 4657
              Mobile: 0414 716 812
              Email: IanYoung@...
              Webpage: http://www.iinet.net.au/~ianyoung/

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            • Michel Montmigny
              Ian Young wrote: I don t want anyone to take this the wrong way - I assure you that I want this sport to be as safe as possible. But I think with
              Message 6 of 11 , Nov 3, 1998
                Ian Young wrote:
                >
                > I don't want anyone to take this the wrong way - I assure you that I want this
                > sport to be as safe as possible.
                >
                > But I think with the number of learners (myself included) that are reading these
                > postings on quick and deadman releases, that a point is made about the
                > importance of commitment, determination and judgement.
                >
                > I have been developing a training package for the school I will be starting soon
                > and when teaching friends and family I have found that it takes some time for
                > people to get used to the power that these kites can generate.
                >
                > A common fault I have observed is that until confidence is built through
                > practise/ experience, people tend to lack commitment and determination to keep
                > control of the kite at all times eg often when a power kite starts to pull hard,
                > learners tend to walk toward the kite rather than lean back against the pull -
                > obvious to the experienced kite flyer: without tension on the lines you can't
                > effectively control the kite!
                >
                > I would hate to see people defaulting to releasing a kite pre-maturely rather
                > than fighting to regain/ keep control of a kite. Even with all the released
                > discussed to date you still have a kite falling or flying with lines trailing
                > from it that can still injure people or tangle on stationary or moving objects.
                > A kite without tension on the lines (released or otherwise) is still out of
                > control!
                >
                > The key IMO, is judgement of when to release a kite because there is no chance
                > of bringing it back under control.
                >
                > Something else that may be worth considering that we use hang gliding when aero
                > or vehicle towing is the compulsory use of weak-links (usually 1.2G) in addition
                > to a "three ring circus" quick release.
                >
                > Cheers,
                > Ian
                >
                > WinDesigns Australia:
                > 9 Oliver St, Scarborough, WA, AUSTRALIA, 6019
                > Phone/Fax: +61 8 9245 4657
                > Mobile: 0414 716 812
                > Email: IanYoung@...
                > Webpage: http://www.iinet.net.au/~ianyoung/
                >
                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                Just few worlds to say that the most important thing to learn(to me) and
                know about Kitesurfing sport, is how manage the kite in any conditions.
                After that let's go on the water and have fun.
                For a 10 hours kitesurfing lesson, I teach 70% kites practice.

                I make traction kites(TRACTIONtm) since 1991 and practice traction sport
                since that time, this is my first kitesurfing season and it's going
                well.

                I agree with all those that are trying to make that sport very safe,
                this is the only one way to grow.

                Have nice breeze

                Michel Montminy
                www.conceptair.com
                ______________________________________________________________________
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